Strategies for divorcing a narcissist?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Well, darn. Just darn.
Bad enough I'm embroiled in a divorce from my BPD STBX (or PD Not Otherwise Specified) but I'm also embroiled with my FIL, whose behavior has been puzzling to me.
So I listed the actions he's been taking lately, and, lo and behold, I'm pretty sure he has NPD, if not a full-blown PD, then quite a few characteristics of one.
Reading strategies on how to divorce an NPD and came across an article that outlines what the NPD might do:

1. refuse to provide financial information and documents (yup)
2. refuse to negotiate (yup)
3. refuse to listen to their own lawyer (yup)
4. defy court orders (not yet, but this is why I've been worried he'd cut me off again.)

The articles also explain how the divorce is a game that the NPD has to win, and the articles caution the reader again and again, that the divorce will be drawn-out and ugly.

I am hunkering down, preparing for extended conflict, and figuring out what I need to do to keep myself in the best of health--both mental and physical.

Gosh, no wonder this has been so hard. But now that I know, I can take the necessary steps.

Have a great Thursday, everybody!    

TMD

[toomanydogs]

Well, darn. Just darn.
Bad enough I'm embroiled in a divorce from my BPD STBX (or PD Not Otherwise Specified) but I'm also embroiled with my FIL, whose behavior has been puzzling to me.
So I listed the actions he's been taking lately, and, lo and behold, I'm pretty sure he has NPD, if not a full-blown PD, then quite a few characteristics of one.
Reading strategies on how to divorce an NPD and came across an article that outlines what the NPD might do:

1. refuse to provide financial information and documents (yup)
2. refuse to negotiate (yup)
3. refuse to listen to their own lawyer (yup)
4. defy court orders (not yet, but this is why I've been worried he'd cut me off again.)

The articles also explain how the divorce is a game that the NPD has to win, and the articles caution the reader again and again, that the divorce will be drawn-out and ugly.

I am hunkering down, preparing for extended conflict, and figuring out what I need to do to keep myself in the best of health--both mental and physical.

Gosh, no wonder this has been so hard. But now that I know, I can take the necessary steps.

Have a great Thursday, everybody!    

TMD

[formflier]

The strategy... .be strong... don't relent.

The point of view to keep examining is to first understand "what he wants" or "some of the things he wants" and then see if there is any way to "let him win" while you still get what you value.

For your situation, it may be about the house.  So... .if you walk away from the house, yet just get a big payout... .perhaps he feels like he wins.  Perhaps.

This is going to take a lot of strength and may take some "spiking the ball" to prove you are serious.  I would hope there is a way to sanction him for lack of discovery... lack of financial information.

Even better would be if he gave you "inaccurate" information and you were able to prove perjury.

Last thought.  Since he is a public figure and is likely all about privacy... perhaps he is willing to pay for it. 

Might be worth your lawyers giving a verbal offer to his lawyers... .would he be willing to pay for a NDA (non disclosure) in exchange for a quickie easy divorce.

Note... money would be the same but "paying for privacy" might be more palatable to him that paying alimony or a divorce settlement.

Note:  Rational people should see through this and most people would say "this will never work"... .yet... is he behaving rationally?

FF

[david]

Learning how to let them "win" is a great strategy. My exs' motivations are very different from mine. After we separated I was able to see things better. She had a way of fogging me when we were together. Separation cleared the fog. She used to try the same things through email and they didn't work. When she realized that she tried for quite some time to communicate through other means. I stood firm to my boundary.

[toomanydogs]

The strategy... .be strong... don't relent.

The point of view to keep examining is to first understand "what he wants" or "some of the things he wants" and then see if there is any way to "let him win" while you still get what you value.

For your situation, it may be about the house.  So... .if you walk away from the house, yet just get a big payout... .perhaps he feels like he wins.  Perhaps.

The problem, FF, is I have no idea what he wants. If he wants the house, he needs to keep the divorce going. By not paying L, he has delayed.

Just had a thought: FIL has objected to discovery, thought it was too broad. Could be he wants to avoid discovery.

If that's the case, I'm okay with that, but he needs to make an offer, so we can move forward.

This is going to take a lot of strength and may take some "spiking the ball" to prove you are serious.

It would appear he has cut me off again. I had prepared this time, figuring what I could sell. However, last night I couldn't sleep, and I decided what I will do if he has indeed cut me off is file a lawsuit charging him with intentional infliction of emotional distress.

The suit would not be frivolous. And I have doctor's visits that show that his behavior during this has required that I be on anti-anxiety medication.
I was never on it before, even during the marriage. Having no money coming in for six months just about did me in.

I can't prevent his cutting me off again, but I can definitely object vehemently and publicly.

I'm not sure if it's better to charge him in my state where he's not known, or in his home state where he is known.

Last thought.  Since he is a public figure and is likely all about privacy... perhaps he is willing to pay for it.  

That was my thinking regarding suing him for intentional infliction of emotional distress. The point for me wasn't even to get a huge payout, it was to expose his behavior.

Your comment regarding an NDA goes to his desire for privacy. I'll be writing my L later next week regarding being cut off, and I'll mention it then.

And, no, he is not behaving rationally. He is not taking care of the house (the asset), and he's not moving the divorce forward. If he wants to sell this place, the divorce must be settled. He can't sell the marital home when I'm still in it. And by not taking care of the pool, for example, he will have greater difficulty selling. I know he knows that.



Have a good weekend,
TMD

[toomanydogs]

Learning how to let them "win" is a great strategy.

Hey David,
  I agree. I just wish I knew what my FIL wanted regarding "winning." I thought he wanted the house, but his actions won't make that happen.
  A friend suggested maybe he wants to prevent the divorce, keep me married, so there's someone to take care of his son.
  Who knows?
TMD

[formflier]

So... the only thing at the moment that bugs me about your story is your FIL not paying and "slowing things down".

I still don't understand why your L can do something to "force" disclosure or "compel" payment, based on the temp order.

Judges generally don't like orders being blown off.

Your L knows (or should know) they will get paid... .


FF

[toomanydogs]

Hey FF,
   What my L did was file the motion to get paid. I thought the motion was brilliantly written, as she outlined everything that FIL has done. Explained how the lack of payment has brought everything to a standstill.
   So for me that does seem she's on top of compelling him to pay. The issue that concerns me is that FIL seems to think he's above the law. I do know our courts are going to be none too pleased with his behavior; however, I've seen FIL's behavior in the past, and maybe because of his incredibly deep pockets, he doesn't seem to abide by court orders.
  I have thought from the start--and I wrote my L this nearly a year ago--that the only way to fight my FIL is publicly. The only thing that seems to really get him is an attack on his public persona. He presents himself as being very liberal, very much aligned with all the "right" liberal causes, and yet his personal behavior towards his mentally ill son and now me is anything but compassionate. His personal persona is very much at odds with his public persona. He will "win" at any cost, and if I can find out what he defines as "winning" in this situation, I'll let him win, provided, of course, that it doesn't jeopardize my future.
  But I am still convinced the only thing that would cause him to re-evaluate how he's behaving is public exposure.
  As always, thanks for your input. I always weigh what you tell me,  
TMD

[formflier]

When will the motion be ruled on?

FF

[toomanydogs]

That’s the other issue. My STBX filed for divorcein the district that is chronically backed up.
An example: my L has requested mid December for a hearing on my need for support when I’d been cut off. There was nothing available for 4 months.
My L told me it had probably been strategy on the part of my STBX’s first lawyer. There were other districts in which they could have filed.
So...
My L did provide numerous dates when she was available and I’m hoping the judge will be displeased enough to push the motion through as quickly as possible.
TMD

[david]

FIL strategy might be to make this thing drag out and see if you surrender. He might have used that tactic before and it worked. Surrender is a general term. Basically he is seeing how long you can last.

[toomanydogs]

FIL strategy might be to make this thing drag out and see if you surrender. He might have used that tactic before and it worked. Surrender is a general term. Basically he is seeing how long you can last.

hey david,
  this really resonated with me because it reminded me of when STBX and i bought the house--FIL started the negotiation. Low balled the asking price. the person selling the house was an acquaintance of mine, and FIL instructed me to go NC with the acquaintance. "not when we are in negotiations," he told me.
  so i had this semi-amusing thought over the weekend, that i have become the house, nothing more than a negotiation that he wants to win. and i don't care about 'winning' i care about ensuring that my future will not be financially stressful. that's about it.
  i loved your response because it reminded me of the house situation and gently nudged in the stance i need to take. i need to dig deep and figure out how to outlast him.
  once the judge grants a hearing date for my L's motion to be paid, i'll have a better idea where FIL intends to go with all this.
thanks!
TMD

[david]

"FIL instructed me to go NC". It's  probably what he told his son to do this time. Like Michael Corleone said, "It's strictly business".

[toomanydogs]

"FIL instructed me to go NC". It's  probably what he told his son to do this time. Like Michael Corleone said, "It's strictly business".