Approaching the crossroads

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Oh, I agree. If I decide to go, it will be my decision. A tell, not an ask. But I also know that it could potentially lead to problems and I need to be prepared for that.

[Ozzie101]

Oh, I agree. If I decide to go, it will be my decision. A tell, not an ask. But I also know that it could potentially lead to problems and I need to be prepared for that.

[formflier]

Oh, I agree. If I decide to go, it will be my decision. A tell, not an ask. But I also know that it could potentially lead to problems and I need to be prepared for that.

Such as what?

FF

[Ozzie101]

One of his big triggers is feeling out of the loop. If I see a therapist, that's a private conversation. He won't know what we're saying about him, which will make him feel more paranoid.

Even if he's receptive at first, when he dysregulates, that's something else that he will bring up to throw at me. He's threatened before that if I see one, he would have a big problem with it and it could end our relationship. Empty threats, most likely.

I guess I'm just afraid it will instigate a meltdown. I can't let the fear of those control me, yet the fear is real. I guess I'm afraid he will either become physically violent with me or he will kick me out. Yet I'm starting to fear the latter less.

[formflier]

Well... .if he wants to know what is being said about him... he can show up and ask.

The key to ALL of this... .ok... MOST of this.  Is for you to solve your issues.  Let him solve his issues.

As soon as he wants to solve his paranoia by having you not do other things... .

Think about that for a moment.

He could kick you out... that is possible.  He could also kick you out for buying the wrong coffee... that is possible too.

He could also kick you out for having a pet unicorn and hiding your flying monkeys from him.  If you would only show me the monkeys... .(see how it's all your fault?)

Substitute another medical issue for this.

If you go to the doctor for your bad heart... .I'll kick you out.    Would you stand for that?

I get it the subject matter is a bit different... .yet the principal and the broad subject (your health) is the same.

FF

[Ozzie101]

Agreed. I can't let him dictate what I do regarding my health. You put it very well.

The thing is, the more I think about it, the more I can see the FOG. I love him. In many ways, he's been very good to and for me. But that doesn't negate or excuse his other behavior. I feel bad sometimes because I know it's an illness talking. That's not him and not his fault. Yet if he doesn't fix it, that IS his fault.

Yet I feel like I owe it to him to stay. And I'm afraid of what would happen if I left.

I have a support system so I'm luckier than a lot of people.

[Cat Familiar]

Yet I feel like I owe it to him to stay. And I'm afraid of what would happen if I left.

There's the Obligation and Fear right in those two sentences.

[Ozzie101]

Exactly. I'm aware of it, yet I still feel it.

[Red5]

This is the way that it is supposed to go... .

“Dear, I’m thinking of going to see a therapist... .there are some things in my life that are perplexing to me, and I want to work on these things... .I want to undestand what I’m feeling and I want to be more intuned to my inner spiritual being... .what do you think Dear?... .

(Answer should be)... .wow love, that’s sounds pretty deep, I think this is a good thing for you to persue... .anything that enriches the soul is good karma... .I love you and I will support you in what ever capacity I can, and that you would be comfortable with... .good for you!... .this is awesome !

Hmmmm,

That’s the way it’s supposed to go... .

Red5

[Ozzie101]

And if I tell him in the right way, at the right time, I think he would be receptive. He may not like it, really, but he wouldn't be a jerk about it. At the wrong time, though, while he wouldn't "forbid" me, he would lash out or get nasty about it. With him it really is all about timing. But his moods can absolutely turn on a dime.

Yesterday, he was kind of down. Not moody, just in a kind of depressed phase. Yet after dinner last night, he was playful, teasing, upbeat -- the person I fell in love with.

That's part of what makes everything so hard. It really is Jekyll and Hyde. Like two different people. And I never know when something may come up that could flip the switch.

Last night and this morning, he was great. Then, just now, something happened that I fear is triggering him again. We're planning a family Christmas thing for this weekend (since we'll be gone for the holiday week): get together at our house to open gifts and then go out for pizza. Well, we haven't said anything about it to anyone other than setting the date and general parameters. Well, my mom just emailed making a suggestion (not an order) on a pizza place. Now he's angry that my mom is "taking over." It was just a suggestion and, like I said, we hadn't said anything or even let them know we were going to make the plans. She was just throwing out an idea. But to him, that means they're all going to step in and dictate what happens. Any family thing gets him worked up already, which means he's super-sensitive to any misstep or anything that falls outside what he wants or expects. I get that. But I also know my family 1) mean well 2) are adults who I/we can't control. I can step in when they're doing something or not doing something that's easy to fix, but I'm not going to try to micromanage them or make them bend over backwards to fit his needs and moods. I need to stop doing that myself. I don't want or need to drag them into it too.

[formflier]

So... .with pwBPD it's helpful to stop looking at the "trees" and look at the forest.

Take the Mom/pizza story.  Here is my guess... .he was a little anxious about something already but likely couldn't articulate it.  Someone handed him something that could be easily twisted into an offense... .and he twisted away, rather than dealing with the underlying anxiety (or other odd feeling).

Now... .most non's will say "Oh... .I'll be more careful and not hand him reasons."  But if you think about that... .he just handed his emotional responsibility to other people... and hey took it

Perhaps he needs to be mad... .and the most loving thing you can do is give him space. 

If he gripes about Mom... perhaps say "I'm sure you can work through this.  You plan the best parties."  (what would you guess he would say?)

Blah blah blah... .make your Mom not do xyz.   to which you could respond "Oh goodness... sounds like you need to make your desires known to Mom... .here is her phone number."

Then... .when he wants you to speak for him... .you can be very puzzled... .

"Isn't it best if you speak for yourself?"

Do you see how you keep "handing it back to him"?  You express confidence?  You don't fix, although you offer to help... .I wouldn't do anything until he specifically asks... and it seems like a healthy thing to do.

Again... .look at the Forest.  He's a grouch.  If not this "tree"... then another. 

FF

[Ozzie101]

Yes. I know I've been taking on his problems and trying to fix them. Sometimes I've done it because I don't want him to create a bigger problem (for instance, calling my mom and exploding at her, which would cause a world of problems and I'd be caught in the middle of it). But they are his problems and I need to work on just stepping back and calmly having him handle them himself. If it goes the way evidence has suggested, he'll just rant about it without doing anything about it -- then bring it up again and again for the foreseeable future. So maybe I don't need to be so worried about him burning bridges or doing something truly damaging.

So, yes. I'll stay calm and confident, step back, not say anything and let it roll. In this case, I suggested to him that I send a group email saying "Here's what we're thinking and will let you know when we know for sure." That way people know we ARE working on it, so they don't jump in and start making plans to fill the void. He hasn't replied to that suggestion yet, which, unless he's caught in a meeting, means he's not happy with it. But I'm not going to push it or move beyond that. And I'm already thinking through scenarios of how he will react and what he will say later so I can be prepared with some validation of feelings but also handing back of problems.

[formflier]

  Sometimes I've done it because I don't want him to create a bigger problem (for instance, calling my mom and exploding at her, which would cause a world of problems and I'd be caught in the middle of it). 

How has trying to control him making problems or bigger problems worked out so far?  Remind me again... .are things getting better or worse over last 6 months to a year?

And... .I'm puzzled... .how would you be caught in the middle?  Would they both force you to stay there?  Help me out with this... .I'm not quite seeing it.

FF

[Ozzie101]

Oh, it hasn't worked -- not long-term anyway. It often works short-term. He calms down and moves on (until the next dysregulation, when he'll probably bring up the same thing again). His rages have lessened in number and intensity but the problem doesn't completely go away. That's why I need to stop stepping in to do damage control when there's a problem.

I would be in the middle if he blew up at my mom the way he has with me before -- over-the-top, verbally abusive over something that was, to their minds, benign. Knowing him, that would set him in a "I hate your family. You are choosing: them or me. You either cut them off completely or we're through."

Of course, thinking that through, I couldn't and wouldn't agree to do that.

On my family's end, they would see the reality of my situation and would be extremely concerned -- and would probably push me to get help and get away from him.

Basically, I see it provoking a crisis. At the same time, the crisis would just put me in the same situation I'm in now, just with more urgency. I'm already kind of caught in the middle. They do or say something that he and I interpret in different ways. He gets angry and reiterates how much he hates my family. I tell him I understand why he feels that way. He continues for a while and then calms down. The next time something comes up, the latest offense is added to the litany of offenses.

I suppose it doesn't put me in the middle unless I allow myself to be put there.

But the more I think about it, the more I think that he wouldn't actually go through with calling my mom. He would want me to handle it. If I refused, he would probably pout and sulk and, again, pull the "See? You always side with your family. You never have my back. I've told my people about it and they all agree that you're wrong and too tied to the apron strings." But he wouldn't make the call.

[formflier]

.

I suppose it doesn't put me in the middle unless I allow myself to be put there.
 

           


     


Stay big picture with me... .

See how we are talking about principles?

Now... let's talk briefly about your Mom.  Would she be required to listen to him rant and be verbally abusive?

Would you be required to listen to him bad mouth you about your family... not having his back... .selling his unicorn... .throwing stones at his flying monkeys?

Note:  I haven't got a sense yet of your sense of humor.  I often listen to what my wife says and if it's offbase... .I make it more ridiculous in my mind.  That allows me to say "light" and give a more gentle or bemused response.

Because... .

You love them more than you love me is really as ridiculous as him asserting that you love his unicorn more than his flying monkey.  And then he demands you go spend time with flying monkey to make up for it.

"Oh... my babe... I'm listening (perhaps stammer a bit... be confused some).  Are you interested in understanding my feelings better?"

Take some time and think about the proposed response.  What does it "say" or "do?  Compare that to what you have said in the past to "you never have my back... " and things like that.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

On my family's end, they would see the reality of my situation and would be extremely concerned -- and would probably push me to get help and get away from him.

So you are "hiding" the reality of your relationship from your family? How do you feel about doing that? And what does that portend for the future? How do you see this working out when you have children?

[Ozzie101]

Now... let's talk briefly about your Mom.  Would she be required to listen to him rant and be verbally abusive?

Would you be required to listen to him bad mouth you about your family... not having his back... .selling his unicorn... .throwing stones at his flying monkeys?

No, no one's required to listen. She'd probably be shocked and my dad would likely get involved and it could escalate. They're not used to dealing with that kind of volatility and would probably react the way I did early on.

So you are "hiding" the reality of your relationship from your family? How do you feel about doing that? And what does that portend for the future? How do you see this working out when you have children?

Not exactly. I've told my parents a good bit, though sometimes I wonder if I should have. I fear I haven't been fair to him and may be turning them against him. But at the same time, I needed someone to talk to and my mother has always been a calm, rational sounding board. I feel comfortable telling her anything. Anyway, they already suspected something was going on. I had to have some conversations with my dad regarding medical stuff (when he and my brother-in-law couldn't write prescriptions for H) and there were a few times (before I learned some new tools and figured out what was going on) when I complied with his requests to call them and tell them he comes first or to address some problem with how they'd handled something. They're smart people. They knew something was up.

Regardless, I feel guilty. They've been around him since learning the truth and they still treat him the same as before. They're not controlling types. They believe their children are adults and need to make their own decisions. They can give advice (when asked) but otherwise will do whatever they can to support us without interfering. If I want my relationship to work, they will help however I need. If I want to end it, they will, again, help. But I know my telling them what I have colors their perspectives of him. If he knew, he'd be horrified. At the time I talked to them, I was frightened, desperate and confused and reacted by talking to the people I trust most.

Maybe that was a mistake.

Anyway, they don't know everything. They don't know details of things he's said or done. They know I haven't been physically hurt. They don't know some of the emotional or verbal abuse he's put on me or some of the horrible things he's accused them of.

I do not plan to have children. He is very clear about not wanting more and had a vasectomy before I met him. I was OK with that and, now, even more so. I have no desire or plans to bring a child into this.

Edited to add:
I was right about the family thing. He's now angry because they're making suggestions on what to do at "our" party at "our" house. I told him I could see how that would bother him. But I think letting people know that we have it under control is the way to go.

Frankly, they probably see this as a family party where people can help out or make suggestions. He sees it as ours, where we call all the shots and pay for everything. It's a difference in how it's seen. We were never really clear on that and haven't let people know we're handling the plans. But, ultimately, the way I see it, he's wrapping an iron fist around all of it, basically daring anyone to resist or step out of line so then he can be righteously angry and lash out. Again.

For instance, I suggested letting everyone know we're working on plans, this is what we're thinking, we'll let you know when we have it set. He wants to just let it get closer to time -- even though people are starting to make suggestions and offer to help. He wants to say nothing. It's only Monday. The party is Saturday. It's too early. Your family has to plan things out way in advance. That's so annoying. Yet, if you say nothing, you're kind of leaving people in the air and when they don't know you're handling it, yeah, the polite thing to do at (what they think is) a joint family thing is to offer help.

[formflier]

Edited to add:
I was right about the family thing. He's now angry because they're making suggestions on what to do at "our" party at "our" house. I told him I could see how that would bother him. But I think letting people know that we have it under control is the way to go.
 

Oh... so he asked you for help figuring out what you guys should say to people?

Could you do a little more he said she said on how it came up, your response... .his... etc etc.  Trying to get the flavor of things

FF

[Ozzie101]

He didn't ask for help.

It all started with my sending a group email (which he was copied on) saying since we'll be out of town for Christmas week, we wanted to plan a family get-together so we could see everyone. I gave our available dates and suggested something fun like bowling or going out for pizza.

One sister couldn't make it on any dates (she has four kids who are all in various activities) but parents, grandmother and other sisters all could. So, date was chosen. One sister said bowling would be a challenge for her group (her four-year-old is autistic) but pizza sounded great.

H was very annoyed bowling was nixed. Said he thought I'd said bowling AND pizza -- not OR. He dropped it when he reread the email. But he still griped that she was trying to control things and wasn't being flexible enough. "She can't handle her kid for a couple of hours? See? I'm a better parent. I can make things work." I just shrugged and let him go on about that one and didn't point out that her child has special needs.

H and I have talked about it since and I suggested having everyone over in the afternoon for drinks, snacks and gift opening, then either bringing pizza in or going out. He didn't want to say anything until we had the plans all decided.

Today, Mom sends an email saying "Just a suggestion, but if we're going out for pizza, what about XXX? The kids would probably have fun playing the games and Dad and I will be happy to supply them with tokens."

I wrote a text to H and suggested that I reply to all telling them what we were thinking, plan-wise. That way they would know we were working on the plans and it wasn't all up in the air. He said he thought we'd already decided no on XXX. I said, no, it was still on the table. I'd even suggested it as being fun for the kids. We'd never ruled it out.

He then went into the "I don't tell people how to do things when it's at their house!" I agreed that people don't need to tell us how to do things. But I also said we also haven't been clear that we see it as our party and that we're working on the details. I said I thought sending an email to just take the reins of the conversation would be helpful in clarifying things. (Didn't mention that, technically, the going out for pizza isn't at our house." That would just be escalating and smart-@$$ behavior.)

He's angry and afraid that they're taking charge of an event he sees as ours. I get that. But i also know this was just a suggestion. Not a mandate. And, as far as they know, we're open to suggestions and happy to share the planning.

[formflier]

He didn't ask for help.
 

Some of us "nons" have a habit of "overfunctioning".

Not just for us... but for others.  Trying to smooth waters that someone else really should smooth.

What would happen if you waited to make suggestions like that, until he specifically asks.  Or... you could ask him what he thinks first?

FF

[Ozzie101]

I guess it was me jumping in preemptively. I saw the email from my mom and so, I suggested, "Hey, why don't I send an email to let them know what we're planning"? I thought letting people know was the thoughtful thing to do but didn't want to do it without running it by him first since I knew that my jumping in like that without discussing it with him would be a big trigger.

Maybe I shouldn't worry about running things by him first like that. But, when I've acted before, he's gotten very upset with me.

I suppose I've been trying to walk the line. I don't want to set him off. But I also don't want to just act and do things I know for a fact will make him angry or hurt his feelings.

I could have asked him what he thought but it would have been purely academic. I knew what he would think -- and his reaction bore that out. I strongly suspect if I had asked, I would have gotten some version of "We've been married two years. You don't know how I would react to something like that? You should know better. You're not that stupid."

[formflier]

I guess it was me jumping in preemptively.

 I would have gotten some version of "We've been married two years. You don't know how I would react to something like that? You should know better. You're not that stupid."

Again... .don't get too close to this one incident.  I suspect it reflects a general attitude or way of functioning...

Oh... here is this thing... I better jump on it quick before he... (fill in blank)    Or some version of this.

So... am I correct that the email was sent by Mom to both of you guys (two separate email addresses?)

You could reply right away and say...

"Oh mom... that sounds wonderful.  Thanks for putting thought into this.

Before making any firm plans, I'm sure you will understand I want to talk to (hubby).  One of us will get back to you after we discuss this opportunity."


Then... .talk in person and ask if he wants to let her know the decision.

switching gears.  Should he make a crank comment like you suggest.  I suggest staying quiet and calm... .let him blow for a bit.

Then say ... "Babe... .I'm not a mind-reader... your actual feelings and thoughts are important to me." 

perhaps after more blather.

"if you don't want to share your thoughts... please say so... all this other stuff is confusing to me."

Again... focus on the mindset behind the conversation I am suggesting.

FF

[Ozzie101]

Yes, the mindset is the most important. This is just an example of many incidents in the last several months.

The email was to the whole group (including him) and I've written to Mom to thank her and let her know we're still figuring it all out.

I get where he's coming from on this. Again, like other times. If someone's having you over, you don't say "Oh, you should do this!" But this situation is a little different. The suggestion was for the part that's not at our house. The event is getting closer and we haven't said a word to anyone what plans might be or even if we're making any -- or if it's up for everyone to pitch in. He didn't want me to say anything until it was all set. And from what's been communicated, I don't think the others realize that H sees it as "our" party under our control. Miscommunication there. I get it. It's a typical thing. A family member means well but does or says something that triggers him, not realizing what they're doing. He sees it in the worst possible light.

This will bring up other things: For instance, my mom invited us to their house to celebrate my birthday a few days before the day itself. He was angry she hadn't consulted him first and that we would celebrate my birthday with my family before we did it together. My family's not too picky about the day of the birthday and they're not competitive about stuff like that. Wouldn't even occur to them. They invited us that day because they were going out of town for two weeks the day after my actual birthday and, the day in question, my favorite aunt would be in town so a great chance for us to get to see each other. He was in a funk for a week and still brings that up. I get where he was coming from but I also know it was all well-meant and they were, in their way, being thoughtful.

I've gotten a lot better about just staying calm. When he makes comments like that, I just let him go.

I'm kind of dreading going home soon. Last night was so great. But I know I'm walking into "the zone" as soon as I step through the door today. Then again, maybe by then he will have had time to cool off.

[formflier]

So... did you "reply to all" and let her know you were figuring it out?

It's ok to say no to your Mom as well, yet I would only do that after talking with hubby.

It's not your job to make you hubby happy with what other people say or smooth things over. (this assumes "normal" stuff like you are talking about).

He can be upset that she didn't contact him a week ahead of time... or a month... .or 13 days 12 hours and 42 minutes ahead of time.  If he wants to communicate with Mom about expectations... .he can do that... directly.  (no middle person)

Try to relax for going home... .let him be... who he will be

FF

[Ozzie101]

I just replied to her. Told her thanks for the suggestion and we were still trying to figure out our plans. I agree with him that it's up to us to figure it out. Where we don't agree is her intent (I know her -- she's not trying to run things, just making an innocent suggestion) and how to handle it. I haven't said no to her. Not until we figure things out.

I'm feeling determined to just let him react how he's going to react. I'm not handling this for him. If he ends up with his "OK. We're calling this off. I'm not doing any more stuff with your family," I'll let him make that decision. But I'm going to see my family myself. I'm not playing along on that game. That will make him angry too (not supporting him or taking his side) but that's not my problem, really. He'll react how he'll react.

[formflier]

Where we don't agree is her intent (I know her -- she's not trying to run things, just making an innocent suggestion) and how to handle it.

  He'll react how he'll react.

On the intent thing... you don't have to agree.  If he pushes it... .I would suggest being "bumused" and wondering aloud how you can know someone's intent... . 

Perhaps ask if you guys should call and ask your Mom together... let him decide if knowing is a big deal.

If you reply to all... gives you a chance to show the world (and him) that you are putting his wants in their "proper" place... .   You and he make plans... the rest of the world then finds out.

FF

[Ozzie101]

That's what I was about to do -- then stopped and ran the idea by him first (in case he had a better suggestion or wanted to add anything). Then he went into the zone and got too caught up in being offended to agree to anything. I didn't reply all because after mentioning it to him and him never agreeing to it, if I wrote, then it would be me doing something he didn't want me to do.

He didn't want me to write it because he thinks we shouldn't even have to. They should just stay back and let us plan it, keeping their mouths shut. An email from us shouldn't be necessary at all and to write it would be giving in.

Maybe I should have just written the reply like I'd meant to originally. I just thought it would be better to keep him in the loop before I acted. I know that's a big trigger for him.

[Ozzie101]

It wasn't as bad as I'd thought. Again I got the "you'll always side with them" thing. And the "they've been awful to me and Son". I get why he feels that way. But I also know their side. Any slights are unintentional. So, tricky. He has a point. But his reactions and ways of handling things are so over the top that it's hard to deal with in a rational manner. And instead of "They're handling this poorly" it's "they're awful, horrible people."

[Ozzie101]

Well, I spoke too soon. Things went fine in the afternoon and evening. Then, we went to bed.

His Son (8) is with us this week, which can affect the morning routine. Sometimes H takes S to school and then goes straight to work -- and, therefore, needs to be in the bathroom first. Other times, he takes S to school, then goes back home to exercise. Those days, I go ahead into the bathroom. We were getting into bed and I asked which he was doing in the morning so I would be sure to be out of his way. I had asked him the same thing Sunday night. No problem.

Somehow, that was a trigger.

What followed was two hours of lashing out. The topics (none of which were new):
1) I always put my family first. I always take their side on everything and never support him.
2) My family have treated him and S terribly.
3) I put my job before our marriage.
4) I never help out around the house (this after I helped S with homework, cleaned up the kitchen, got S to bed and prepped his snack for school while H cooked dinner and then talked to his parents on the phone for two hours).
5) I don't care about S. I don't have the relationship with him I should after 2 years -- though H can't tell me what type of relationship I should have at this point. S and I get along very well.
6) H makes 5x what I do (true) so he expects more from me for that.
7) I never pick up on his clues when he needs help.

Some of his gripes have some legitimate basis. Some are totally out there. But he was very obviously dysregulating, getting worked up and making completely illogical statements and connections.

For instance, he said that I'd asked the night before what his plan was for the morning. "Well," he said, "what if I decide on Saturday morning to cancel the family get-together at our house? That's the same thing."

Huh? Yeah. I just let the crickets chirp on that one.

At one point, I said, "I can't talk about this any more tonight. I'm tired so I'm going to sleep in the guest room."

Obviously, that was a mistake. That made him really angry. He followed me and waved his wedding ring in my face, telling me I should take it because I didn't want to be married. When I went into the guest room and closed the door, he banged on it (with S sleeping in the next room with the door open). When I opened it to shut him up, he wouldn't let me close it back.

My trying to go to bed was met with more claims that I'm selfish and only think about me. That all that matters is if I'm tired and need to go to bed and how my work schedule will be.

He said all this is my fault, not his. It's me and my attachment to my family and my selfishness. My family is at fault, too. His family doesn't cause problems. And he's frustrated because he thinks my family should have to "suffer" like he is. If they don't, it's not fair.

As he started calming a bit, the topic of therapy came up. I said I thought couples therapy could help us with some of these issues. He was not receptive. I mentioned that I'd thought about doing solo therapy. That was not well-received either. He brought up the "You'll talk about me to a stranger." I suggested he could be there. He didn't like that either. He doesn't have the time to deal with that. I can do what I want but he won't like it and it will cause "big problems" for us.

Eventually, he calmed down and we went back to bed. Conversation continued on his end without my taking part. I fell asleep finally. I don't know if he did or not.

This morning he was better -- more calm -- and he's talking about getting anger management, which I encouraged. But he also said he thinks it's unfair for him to have to do therapy when my family doesn't since this is all their fault.

I didn't really respond to that one.

I didn't handle things the right way. I don't know if I should have just stopped talking and gone to sleep instead of trying to change rooms. Or if I should have gone ahead with the changing rooms and not caved. Or what I should have done. Tired, stressed, upset, confused. I was able to stay calm. I didn't justify or fight back on things. But it kept going and I couldn't get away from it or him.

Last night he threatened to call his attorney. I didn't respond. He says we can't go on like this forever wasting time. Said he thinks 3 months is a fair maximum time for him to see real changes in my family and how they and I do things. I disagreed and said everyone has work to do and these things take time -- at least a year. He didn't like that one either.

A part of me is tempted to just say, "Fine. You're right. Never going to change. You call your lawyer and I'll get one and let's just put us both out of our misery." Yet I can't pull that trigger. At least not yet.

[formflier]

You did the right thing by trying to go sleep somewhere else.  I would advise you to do it an hour and 59 minutes earlier.

You have to have restful sleep so you can make good decisions.  Period.  Unless someone needs to go to an emergency room... .talking about putting jobs first can wait... all that other crap can wait.

Has this EVER happened before?    This cannot become a pattern... .it WILL cause you relationship to deteriorate much more.


My gut says you need to be proactive and address this, but I'll wait on you to fill in relevant history.

This kind of thing used to be in my relationship.  I let it go on way too long.  Thankfully I seem to have gotten rid of the late night harangue... .

FF

[Ozzie101]

It's never happened when we've been up in bed. It's happened at night before (his dysregulations are almost always at night) but it's been when we're in the living room hanging out on the couch. And, yes, it's gone on WAY too long. This was the first time I tried to walk away.

When I did it, it just fed into one of his complaints: I only think about myself and my needs. I don't care about his or his son's. Thing is, I can understand why he feels that way. I haven't handled some things the way I should and I've used some poor word choices -- or made some poor decisions. All that has added up in his mind. It's like he keeps a running tally. But I know it's not true. I try to be helpful and to take on chores and tasks to help out. I ask him what he needs. He says nothing. Then he gets mad that I'm not helping. I pointed that out and he seemed to understand and agree that he needs to be more vocal about what he needs.

But his, "I make $xxxxxx a year. I expect more from you for that" kind of rocked me back. My much-lower salary is a big bone of contention lately. I figured in a family, you're not always going to be equal and you both contribute in different ways. But I never looked at it as "You owe me for my supporting you." Something about that just feels crass. Sort of like "I paid for dinner. I expect you to put out."

My trying to leave and go to bed just made him follow me and made him escalate.

I don't know how to leave the situation and make that work. He was ready to knock down the door. And I think my sleeping in the other room would have driven an irreparable wedge in the relationship. I think last night I saw that I'm not quite ready to do that yet.

Therapy for me is a no-go now. I checked with my policy and while therapy used to be covered 100% as preventive care, it's not covered that way now. We'd be completely out of pocket until hitting our high deductible. He makes most of the money and he's against my seeing someone. This would be very expensive and I can't make him pay for something he doesn't believe in.