Morning Meltdown and using skills I learned here

[Only Human]

Here's an amazing thing that happened just now.

Some background:

I bought GS an advent calendar that has Paw Patrol toys behind each window. The toys, when all together, create a scene to play with. The first toy was Chase, the second toy was a blue sled (Chase is blue), then a snowman, a snow-capped tree, a storefront, etc. Yesterday's toy was a pink sled (for the Skye character) and DD and I thought it was lame that the next toy was not Skye but another character. We also saw that Skye didn't appear for many more days. DD had the idea to open it up and switch the characters.

This morning, after I put GS on an extended take-five (10 minutes) for knocking on my door when the stop sign was up, then running away instead of going into his room, etc., DD came to me in total meltdown, jumping up and down, crying, with the calendar in her hands, "I messed it all up, I've ruined it, I can't get it back inside. I'm having so much anxiety." She was not loud, just frantic.

I said, "Oh, you switched the characters and now you can't get the calendar back inside the box so you're anxious, I can see that."

Her: Yes, I ruin everything. Why do I ruin everything?

Me: I can see how upset you are about this. You did a nice thing and now you can't get it back in. That happened to me too when I opened it. Let me try.

I slid the calendar back in and it was clear the problem was that it was upside down.

Me: Oh, it's upside down, I see the problem. I'm glad you asked for help.

With all the jostling around, some of the structure was getting torn and it really was a minor disaster! I started to have anxiety myself over this but I stayed calm, grateful that the take-five was really a take-ten.

(side bonus: GS, once inside his room with the door closed, didn't bang on the doors, walls, didn't scream profanities, which has been happening lately)

Her: Now it's getting all messed, I ruin everything, everything, why does everything I try to do get  up?"

Me: I think it will be ok but I know that your anxiety about this is real, I'm sorry this happened.

After I got the darn thing back into the box, we saw that some of the doors for later days wouldn't stay closed.

Me: Oh, what should we do about this?

She grabbed some tape and, in the process of taping one door closed, ripped another door off.

Her: Now I ripped that one off, it's just getting worse, I'm making everything worse.

She gave up and I took over.

Me: You did a really nice thing, I'm sorry it didn't go well.

Her: It's how it goes. I try to fix stuff, everything, and it gets messed up.

Me: Did something else happen?

Her: I had to cut someone out that I didn't want to cut out.

Me: Oh, you cut someone out?

Her: Yes, and I didn't want to but she shared my personal business with others that I didn't want her to so I cut her out.

Me: Sounds like she betrayed your trust.

Her: Yes, and now I can't tell her things anymore. She told others, I have proof, and when I asked her she didn't deny it. I asked her why and she just said, "I don't know why," how messed up is that?

Me: I'm so sorry that happened, honey. I would feel betrayed too.

The timer went off and she wiped her tears and went to open GS door. I was putting the calendar back in its spot which brought it to GS attention so he opened today's door and was thrilled to get Skye. DD joined in his excitement.

I told DD, "I know we got interrupted, if you wanna talk... ."

Her: I don't want to talk about it again.

Me: Ok, well I'm really glad you asked me for help, thank you. Is there anything I can do for you right now?

Her: No.

Me: Ok, I'm going back into my room for about a half hour because I don't want GS to think that he can knock on my door when the stop sign is up, get on take-five, then have me stay out anyway. I love you.

That was 40 minutes ago and all sounds good out there.

THANK YOU BPD FAMILY!

~ OH

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Wow OH

You’re so on it!  

Open hearted, warm and she felt so safe to open up. My word, big leaps abound.

I’m doing a little jig for you. Three happy bunnies in your house!

Bask in the success of that one conversation. Well done to you.

Hugs

LP

[Only Human]

Thanks Lollypop, yes I'm patting myself on the back for sure. I'm also being given a much broader picture of DD's limitations and how it feels to be her.

The morning took a turn for the worse when her plan for the day fell apart. I'm mindful that I can't turn her day around for her but I listened and validated when she was talking and she actually came back to the "I cut someone out" conversation despite telling me earlier that she didn't want to talk about it again. I see this as her moving at her own pace and my sitting back, letting it happen.

I have BPD Family, the lessons, the tools, the members, the staff, the newbies, the oldies, all of it, to thank for my success and for having hope that yes, I CAN do this. I can support my daughter and my grandson without getting resentful when "after everything I've done" she still struggles.

I heard her really thinking things through today and my stepping back, asking validating questions, and empathizing, allowed that to happen.

I'm not in my room crying, I'm not worried about leaving her alone for a few hours while I do something I want to do.

Big thanks again to whoever thought to make this magical place happen.

~ OH

[Feeling Better]

OH,
I loved reading your conversation, I smiled the whole way through. It is a testament to the work that you have been doing here. Brilliant! Thanks for posting it.

FB x

[Harri]

Hi OH!  Thanks for sharing that.  I was grinning ear to ear reading the whole thing.  I was not grinning about her frustration but how you handled it!

Oh... .and your GS knocking on the door and then running away... .too cute and so kid like, the little rascal! 

 

[once removed]

Me: I think it will be ok but I know that your anxiety about this is real, I'm sorry this happened.

i like this. even "its fine/its not a big deal" can invalidate a sensitive person and tell them their anxiety is inappropriate/bad... .which helps no one soothe it.

its a nice blend of reassurance and validation, as well as not validating or arguing with the invalid ("why do i ruin everything"), letting her self soothe.

[FaithHopeLove]

Excellent work OH. I am learning from you.

[Only Human]

oh boy Once, I heard myself saying "I think it'll be ok" and thought, "oh shoot!" I followed with "But I know your anxiety about this is real" because I do know it's real. I finally know that. Lightbulb moment for me.

FaitHopeLoveKC, thanks for the compliment. It means a lot to me.

Onward,

~ OH

[Lea2000]

OH thanks for posting this.  I had a recent situation and so wished I'd handled it as beautifully as you describe in your post.  It's just what I need, to be reminded how to give love and support to my DD with BPD.  You listened, validated, calmed, demonstrated love and commitment to your DD, and still maintained your boundaries.  Inspiration to so many of us here! 

[Only Human]

Thank you Lea200. As a returning member, I KNOW you know what it's like. I'm learning, we all are.

Harri, thanks for your comment. I giggled at the word, "rascal," I call him that all the time.

~ OH

[babyoctopus]

My goodness, you have the patience of a saint. May I ask how old the dd is? I have a 18 y.o. I know it sounds awful, but honestly I have run out of patience. Is that bad? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say sometimes, so I just sit there with her while she cries, rails, rages. I feel terrible about it, but I clam up mostly because I don't know what to say.
What is GS? Curious.
Thanks for posting.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Hi babyoctopus,

My daughter is 25 and GS is her son, my grandson. He turned 4 in September.

I don't always have patience, that's for sure, and I'm learning along with all the parents here.

This morning is an example of my not having patience.

I'm home sick today and have listened to DD and GS going at it all morning. They both yell at each other, DD ignores GS and he gets loud to get her attention then DD lets loose with a screaming fit, DD yells back, DD screams, "TAKE FIVE NOW, YOU DO NOT GET TO YELL AT ME, MISTER, I'M DONE, GET IN YOUR ROOM NOW!" GS protests, DD follows him to his room, angrily threatens to lock the door if he is loud, GS calls her a   and DD screams, "TIME ADDED FOR CUSSING" and shuts the door, GS screams and bangs on the door, "THE TIME DOES NOT START UNTIL YOU ARE QUIET NOW STOP IT!" GS is quiet for a minute or two then starts singing happily, but loudly. DD screams, "GS, shut the   up!" GS is silent.

Here's, roughly, how it went. My voice was quiet, her voice was raised and sometimes yelling. I was shaking through most of this conversation.

Me: What's going on, DD?

Her: What's going on is he's on take-five for yelling at me and I'm sick of him yelling at me.

Me: I hear a lot of yelling coming from both of you.

Her: You're just going to have to get used to it. I'm a yeller, there's nothing wrong with that. You're just going to have to deal with it, I'm not going to stop. He only listens to me when I yell and I proved that - he shut up, didn't he?  

Me: I can see why you think yelling at him works but it's a problem for me. I don't like yelling.

Her: Then you're just going to have to call the cops because I'm not going to stop yelling at my son. Are you kicking me out for yelling?  

Me: I didn't say that, I'm saying the yelling is a problem for me and I'd like to work on a solution with you.

Her: Nothing works but yelling, I'm not spanking him so you can't call CPS. I'm not going to work on a solution with you, you're the problem. I was handling the situation and you had to come out here and poke the bear. Why didn't you just stay in your room and let me handle this? I was handling it.

Me: I came out because I needed... .

Her: YOU needed, oh, YOU needed, it's all about you.

Me: Because I needed to let you know... .

Her: YOU have needs, YOU needed, you had a need and you came out here to tell me your needs, great.

Me: Ok, I'm not willing to keep having this conversation with you anymore.

Her: Of COURSE not, walk away, you shouldn't have come out here!

Me: Walked into my room

Her: (yelling after me) I guess I'm getting kicked out tonight!

GS: memaw!

Her: Shut up, GS!

Me: (going back into the living room) Are you willing to take a break to calm down? Go into the garage?

Her: Why are you back here? You said you were done but now you're back, WHY?

Me: I'm asking if you're willing to go into the garage to cool down?

Her: I was doing what I needed to do to calm down and you came out here and poked me, poked me, god, you're clueless. I didn't ask for your help, you always come out here when I'm yelling at GS, I don't need your help! The only thing that works is yelling at him so I'm going to keep yelling at him, get over it. No, I'm not going to leave so you can take over parenting, I was calming down before you came out here.

(GS is crying out, MEMAW, MOMMY)

Me: Ok, if you're not willing to go calm down... .

Her: What? You'll call the cops on me? Great.

Me: Then I'm going into GS room to help him calm down.

Her: NO YOU'RE NOT! If you do that, I'll call the cops, you're not allowed to do that, he's MY SON, you are GRANDMA. You need to know your place! Stop trying to parent my son! You are the problem, you are why he's so bad.

Me: Ok, let's talk about this another time.

Her: I don't want to talk to you about this another time. Like when? Like after I'm calm, you want to talk about it again to get me all pissed off again? Great! You just come out here, don't even ask how I'm doing, it's all about GS and how you don't like that I yell at him. Too   bad!

I walked away.

Poor GS was getting worked up in his room, crying out.

After about a minute, she let GS out of his room and they are getting along famously now. And I'm in my room posting and thinking, Drama Triangle.

I can't take the yelling. And not just when she yells at GS (although that's what really sets me off) but she yells on the phone to her exBF (is he really an ex anymore, I don't know), to her internet friends, me, etc.

Not sure how to recover from this.

The only positive I can take away is that I didn't yell back and didn't kick her out.

~ OH

[Only Human]

I forgot that somewhere in there I said, "I hear you saying GS never listens but I remember a day when you praised him for having a good listening day. I know how it is when we're in the middle of something and we think that's how it always is."

I don't remember her response to this. I remembered that I said it because I was out in the kitchen just now and DD was working on getting some burned brownies out of a pan... .she was chiseling them out with a butter knife. GS walked close and she said, "Out of the way, I have a knife" and GS walked away instantly. I reeeaaallly wanted to say, "See? He listens to you." I held my tongue. I considered an alternative, "Good job listening to mommy" but refrained from that as well.

~ OH

[once removed]

its a drama triangle if you are rescuing GS and persecuting DD.

you dont want yelling in your house; thats not unreasonable.

she didnt want to have that conversation, wasnt in a place to. she took it as you interfering to criticize her parenting... .she will for a while. there may have been a sign of that in your tone and body language, but i think you mostly avoided taking that bait. at a certain point, it wasnt going to go anywhere but defensiveness and baiting. remember, shes testing you a bit. stay steady.

she might be in a better place to have that conversation later, she might not be. stay centered... .the bottom line isnt her parenting, it is yelling in your house.

[once removed]

so whats going on today?

[Only Human]

so whats going on today?

Well, I found out that DD is under a lot of stress due to her internet activities. She live-streams for likes and is experiencing some drama. She told me she may have to change her phone number again due to threatening/harrassing phone calls.

We did not talk last night, I'm still recovering from a stomach thing, plus I didn't think she'd be receptive so I let it go.

I worked from home for a bit and GS spent most of the day on take-five, off and on. DD spent most of the day on the phone, yelling. It makes me very anxious but the silver lining is that she wasn't yelling at GS.

Since she asked me almost a month ago if she could stay until she got a place, and since I told her we'd take it a month at a time, I decided to bring back our bi-weekly family meetings. This also makes me anxious.

I'm mindful that I'm not at my best right now due to not feeling well since Tuesday. I'm feeling a bit better tonight and am looking forward to my weekly hang-out with my bestie. We meet at Chili's for appetizers and to work through my Investment in Excellence workbook, discuss positives we've achieved this week, and support each other. If I'm feeling up to it, I'm going to karaoke.

I'm off for the next three days and plan to be more present as DD seems to do better when she is not alone. I know this isn't a long-term solution but hope she can get back to baseline.

~ OH

[Harri]

I'm mindful that I'm not at my best right now due to not feeling well since Tuesday. I'm feeling a bit better tonight and am looking forward to my weekly hang-out with my bestie. We meet at Chili's for appetizers and to work through my Investment in Excellence workbook, discuss positives we've achieved this week, and support each other. If I'm feeling up to it, I'm going to karaoke.

I hope you feel better soon OH.  Being sick makes things so much harder.  Have a great tme with your friend and I hope you sing your heart out.

You are doing great work here.   

[Only Human]

Hello family,

After GS woke from his nap he came to my door with a pudding cup and asked me to open it for him. I told him, "OK, let's go check with mommy" and I walked with him out to the living room where DD25 was cat-napping on the couch. I asked, "Is it ok if GS has a pudding cup?" She replied, "No, he needs to have real food before he has a treat."

Here's what happened:

Me: Okay. GS, let's get some real food then you can have some pudding.

GS: (yells) NO! (starting to cry)

Me: I can tell you really don't like what I've told you, it sucks when we can't get what we want.

GS: (not yelling but loudly) I want pudding. I don't want any real food. hmph!

Me: I can hear how much you want pudding and you can have some after you've had some real food.

GS: (knocking magnets off the fridge, growling, grunting) (sing-song) I'm making a mess!

Me: I see that. You know what that means.

GS: What?

Me: Well, you'll have to clean it up of course.

GS: (yelling) No! I won't clean it up.

Me: You can clean it up or you can go into your room until you're ready to clean it up. Your choice.

GS: (yelling) I want to clean it up!

DD: (yelling) GS, stop yelling right now or you're going in your room.  , mom, why aren't you counting that? You're just letting him yell, you're the reason he's so bad!

*I wasn't counting him because I was focused on validating him which usually works to calm him. When GS and I are alone, I don't usually count him for yelling unless I see that he's not able to calm himself after being validated. I can see DD's point of view - I don't like yelling in my house, but I didn't count GS's yelling .

GS: No, no, memaw, mommy

Me: I'd prefer to talk about this another time.

DD: (getting up from the couch) I didn't want to believe you were allowing him to yell, I even told my friends, "No my mom wouldn't do that, we're on the same page with him yelling," how embarrassing.

Then she went into the garage and I could hear her having a (yelling) conversation on the phone about the internet drama she's involved in right now.

GS: (cleaning up the magnets, calm) Memaw, why is mommy yelling?

Me: I guess she's really mad.

GS: Maybe I can share my deep breaths with her, that's a good idea.

Me: That is a good idea.

GS: (holding up a magnet) What's this letter?

GS's storm has passed.

Within minutes of my returning to work, DD was yelling at GS and GS was yelling back. GS was sent to his room, yelling all the way there, DD yelled back, his door was shut and locked, GS was banging on the door, DD yelled, "Your door will be locked until you are quiet which, by the sound of it will be a very very long time now stop it!"

GS continued to bang on the door and yell for a couple more minutes and then was quiet.

DD got on the phone to continue her yelling conversation.

After the time-out was over, I received three texts from DD:

1. I've corrected his screaming and he came out refreshed and ready to eat.

2. You need to start doing it too.

3. I'm right more than you think.

I would like to go back to this with DD. I said, "I'd like to talk about this another time." I just don't know how, which skill to use here.

When I think of S.E.T., it doesn't seem to fit.

Support: I'm reading that this part should be an *I* statement which lets the pwBPD know I care about her, how she is feeling, etc. (Have I got that right?) Knowing this, I can't think of an *I* statement that fits here. "I want to support your parenting style" is not true, I disagree with her parenting style (yelling, threats, impatience, ignoring, and none of the "get the kid on board and s/he'll be more likely to comply" stuff) On the other hand, my own parenting style, though not as extreme, was not the best either. So there's that.

Empathy: This one is easier, "I know you're angry with me for not counting GS for yelling, I can see why you'd be mad about that."

Truth: What's the truth here? Anything I come up with for this part of it seems like JADE: "I believe GS has a difficult time regulating his emotions and so I didn't count because I was focused on helping him calm himself."

~ OH

[once removed]

ugh thats some bait  

Knowing this, I can't think of an *I* statement that fits here. "I want to support your parenting style" is not true, I disagree with her parenting style

well, you disagree with her approach. "i want to support your parenting (give or take style)" might be true. you certainly dont want to be at odds with her... .you just disagree with some of how she goes about it.

Empathy: This one is easier, "I know you're angry with me for not counting GS for yelling, I can see why you'd be mad about that."

Truth: What's the truth here? Anything I come up with for this part of it seems like JADE: "I believe GS has a difficult time regulating his emotions and so I didn't count because I was focused on helping him calm himself."

i like both. you can scratch the first half of the truth statement.

another truth is that you dont like yelling in your home. she might fight you on that one though... .

[Only Human]

ugh thats some bait  

Thank you so much for those four words, OR. I haven't laughed out loud in a few days and those words did it. I'm still laughing. I've got a picture in my head of a weathered shop by the ocean. The sign reads, "(DD's name)'s Bait and Tackle." I'm tucking this image away in my brain to bring out when needed. I certainly don't mean to make light of this because it breaks my heart that DD's communication skills are so stunted. I think the image will help me to recognize bait when I see it.

Thanks for breaking it down for me.

~ OH

[once removed]

I've got a picture in my head of a weathered shop by the ocean. The sign reads, "(DD's name)'s Bait and Tackle."

i mean, its a little rich. "TELL MY SON NOT TO YELL!".  

no, it isnt a light subject, but finding some humor can give us a fresh perspective. you had a lot coming at you and didnt bite any of the hooks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Am I being controlling or supportive? I can't decide.

DD's xBF, GS's father figure since about 8 months of age stayed over last night and we all had a nice morning of opening gifts. DD made breakfast for us all and things are going OK.

I'm heading out for the evening and would like to "gift" my DD (and her BF, really, since his living situation is tragic) another overnight here with the BF. He's lived with me in the past, is not welcome to live here again, but I don't mind him staying over once in a very long while. He stayed over on Easter eve, which was the day DD moved in with me. I offered that time, since my sister was here from out of state and I knew we'd be holed up in my room. DD has asked twice since whether he could stay over. The first time, a few days after the CPS call when she suddenly became ill with vomiting (I believe she made herself throw up) and asked, pitifully, if he could stay to take care of her. I said no. Then now, for Christmas. Obviously, I said yes.

The plus side to him staying another night, DD seems to be less rageful at GS when he's here since they share parenting duties. The minus side to this is it sometimes seems GS is being ganged up on. I have noticed, as much as I dislike the guy, he is more validating of GS than DD.

The minus side of him staying another night, there's the potential for DD to be triggered and go on a rant. There was a mini rant this morning. BF walks on eggshells, JADEs, pouts, etc.

I had this idea that I'd tell DD, "I'm ok with BF staying another night. Merry Christmas!"

~ OH

[Only Human]

I did it. I sent her a text, didn't wanna make the offer in front of BF in case DD didn't want him to stay. "If you want, BF can stay over again. You gave GS some fun stuff, he seems happy about his presents."

I left off the Merry Christmas! part because she may have received it as, "this is a great gift I'm giving you, be grateful!"

~ OH