How does someone get BPD?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I sometimes come to this board to read other people’s posts when my upwBPD is having a meltdown marathon.  It helps to see that I’m not the only one having to deal with this.  The thing that always gets me about the disorder is that my SO claims to not have been physically/emotionally abused in childhood, yet her BPD is so debilitating that it defies all the psych classes I took in college that led me to believe most mental illnesses are primarily due to environmental factors.  Yet when I look into this issue, most do not say it is genetic, but caused by invalidating parenting.  My pwBPD cites examples like her mom told her to “suck it up” when she whined as a child, but it doesn’t seem like enough to cause this severe a disorder.  I’ve sometimes thought maybe like it’s caused by people who learn to react to being corrected (like a caregiver) by blaming the person who is correcting them instead of looking at their own actions pursuant to the correction.  In the land of logical fallacies this would be called “tu quoque” or something, which pwBPD constantly uses.

This is right about the one year anniversary of the pwBPD having me arrested on false charges and my having to pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time to clear my name.  Ridiculously, we got back together after this, yes I am to blame for that, she was very convincing when she was begging for me back, but that honeymoon only lasted about 2 weeks, then we are right back in the fog.  At this point it’s gotten so crazy that I feel like I would actually leave this time, but our daughter is so amazing that I can’t take the chance of her getting hurt through this process.

[leggomyeggshell]

I sometimes come to this board to read other people’s posts when my upwBPD is having a meltdown marathon.  It helps to see that I’m not the only one having to deal with this.  The thing that always gets me about the disorder is that my SO claims to not have been physically/emotionally abused in childhood, yet her BPD is so debilitating that it defies all the psych classes I took in college that led me to believe most mental illnesses are primarily due to environmental factors.  Yet when I look into this issue, most do not say it is genetic, but caused by invalidating parenting.  My pwBPD cites examples like her mom told her to “suck it up” when she whined as a child, but it doesn’t seem like enough to cause this severe a disorder.  I’ve sometimes thought maybe like it’s caused by people who learn to react to being corrected (like a caregiver) by blaming the person who is correcting them instead of looking at their own actions pursuant to the correction.  In the land of logical fallacies this would be called “tu quoque” or something, which pwBPD constantly uses.

This is right about the one year anniversary of the pwBPD having me arrested on false charges and my having to pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time to clear my name.  Ridiculously, we got back together after this, yes I am to blame for that, she was very convincing when she was begging for me back, but that honeymoon only lasted about 2 weeks, then we are right back in the fog.  At this point it’s gotten so crazy that I feel like I would actually leave this time, but our daughter is so amazing that I can’t take the chance of her getting hurt through this process.

[once removed]

The thing that always gets me about the disorder is that my SO claims to not have been physically/emotionally abused in childhood, yet her BPD is so debilitating that it defies all the psych classes I took in college that led me to believe most mental illnesses are primarily due to environmental factors.

this was the understanding when the disorder was first discovered and being profiled. information about the origins have since come a long way.

if you spend some time on the Son or Daughter board, you will see nothing but very loving parents, and you will also see some of the most extreme cases of BPD anywhere on the site.

invalidating parenting.

BPD is a "special needs" case. most parents didnt know they were dealing with a special needs child. so in a lot of cases, you have a highly sensitive child with some predisposition to BPD, and the parent didnt necessarily "speak that language". not every case will end up with BPD though. i am a highly sensitive person, my parents didnt always speak my language, and i do not have BPD.

so called "helicopter parents" are another example. very loving, but potentially enmeshed. again, not every child parented this way will develop BPD.

you also have children who were abused who do not develop BPD, where some do.

experts suggest the breakdown is about 56% environment, 42% genetic.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17988414

[leggomyeggshell]

Thanks for the info.  Assuming the parent does recognize the “special needs” status of the child who is predisposed to BPD, is there a “correct” way to parent a child with these special needs so that they do not develop the disorder?  I have so many theories on what might have caused this in my SO.  Another one is that she was the oldest child and spent a lot of time “parenting” them when she was herself a child, so now she is extremely bossy and controlling and won’t accept any criticism, much like how she might have acted toward one of her younger siblings.

[once removed]

is there a “correct” way to parent a child with these special needs so that they do not develop the disorder?

BPD is a personality style that exists on a spectrum. a person might be better adjusted and still predisposed to that style to lesser or greater degrees.

Another one is that she was the oldest child and spent a lot of time “parenting” them when she was herself a child, so now she is extremely bossy and controlling and won’t accept any criticism, much like how she might have acted toward one of her younger siblings.

this could have played a role along with a predisposition. it is also a common dynamic for an oldest child. oldest children, middle children, youngest, or only children, these are all studied family dynamics, with some common overlap in terms of development. reading up on bowens family systems theory can teach you a lot about family dynamics.

I have so many theories on what might have caused this in my SO. 

most of the pwBPD described here wouldnt reach the threshold for diagnosis but are on the spectrum/have traits, even significant ones.

its a personality style, a worldview, a coping style built around both that overlaps with the disorder, that can make for very difficult (or worse) people.

[Sweetpea18]

I can understand your concern for your child, I have a 4 year old and I stayed for 4 years enduring many of things you talk about and more because I thought the same; that my child would suffer. I was scared she wouldn’t be cared for satisfactorily, because my ex wife is very unstable, with a tendency to rage and get angry, plus she is an alcoholic. But I will tell you, it’s been several months and although I’m always concerned about what happens when my child is with her mother, so far she seems to take care of her and her symptoms are not as pronounced when it’s her turn with our child. And even though I miss half the time with my child, our relationship is very strong and the peace and stability in my home goes a long way to the nightly occurrences of raging, anger, name calling, complaining, etc. I too even miss my ex wife and at times can’t understand why, but when you get enmeshed and co dependant, your perceptions of what reality is can be a bit skewed, I’m not telling you to leave or stay and your not ever wrong for what decision, you make, but I will say, whatever you decide, your child will adapt and with your love and guidance, you both can and will thrive together.

[leggomyeggshell]

Thank you for the advice.  It’s really hard for me to come to that decision as it probably was for you.  One thing that’s a roadblock is that my pwBPD is very litigious from a defensive perspective... .  even though we do already have a mutually agreed 50/50 custody order, if I broke it off with her, I’d expect her to break the order and skip town, which would require me to track her down and take her back to court against her protest.  Ideally yes I was originally planning on doing 50/50 with her, but she seemed like she really wanted to get back together (probably for the cash if truth be told but she claimed at the time it was for love).  Now it’s been a 180 from that honeymoon and she is threatening stuff like running off with other guys and all the typical borderline stuff that I don’t really take seriously anymore.

[Sweetpea18]

I understand, we have 5050 and fortunately my ex doesn’t threaten that, but she knows I would stand up for myself and do what I needed for my child and my rights. I will say, nobody can take your power unless you give it to them. Fear what she may or may not do can’t be the reason your stuck. Bullys only have power if we let them... .but I understand, you love her and that is hard. I still love my ex, and we’re not even divorced yet and she is dating and with someone else, but I realized that it would have been more painful to stay and live like that, and trust me it’s painful now, and I ruminate sometimes, but it beats waiting for her to come home drunk or pissed or not at all... .

[Purplex]

The thing that always gets me about the disorder is that my SO claims to not have been physically/emotionally abused in childhood, yet her BPD is so debilitating that it defies all the psych classes I took in college that led me to believe most mental illnesses are primarily due to environmental factors.  Yet when I look into this issue, most do not say it is genetic, but caused by invalidating parenting.  My pwBPD cites examples like her mom told her to “suck it up” when she whined as a child, but it doesn’t seem like enough to cause this severe a disorder. 

I’d like to add some theory to once removed's explanation, in case you are not familiar with it.
In psychology, the Diathesis-Stress Model is a common approach to explain the development of not only BPD but basically every mental illness.
Diathesis means the genetic, biological or environmental vulnerability that an individual is confronted with, but this predisposition normally isn’t enough to cause a mental illness.
According to the model there are two other factors that need to be taken into the equation:
Chronic stress that the individual is not equipped to cope with in a healthy way and resilience, that is protective factors like self-efficacy or social support.
For example, if an individual is emotionally sensitive (vulnerability), repeatedly confronted with situations that she considers stressful, like being constantly told to ‘suck it up’ when crying (chronic stress) AND has no means available to counteract this stress, like nobody else to validate her feelings (resilience) she is likely to develop some kind of psychological disorder in the long run.
This also explains, why some people don’t get traumatized by the same events that others suffer permanent psychological damage from (think PTSD and veterans for example).
Stress is perceived very differently from person to person, situations that are a manageable or maybe even welcome challenge for some, might be a crushing burden for others. It can’t be evaluated objectively and what is 'enough' is highly dependent on the individuals stress-perception, coping skills and resilience.

[leggomyeggshell]

Mine does the same thing with coming home drunk and screaming at me mercilessly for hours, then not remembering it the next day and having no memory of it.  What you said about bullies was spot-on.  However, my borderline goes pretty far with the threats.  I’ve tried to call her bluff on bullying me only to have her carry out the ridiculous threat, such as calling police at 3 am to “get her stuff” so she can leave with our child at 3 am or something.  Police are usually on the woman’s side in this state so there’s a good chance she will get what she wants, even if she’s drunk.  I’m scared of how far she will go, so, fear actually is one of the reasons I’m stuck, .

[leggomyeggshell]

@perplex That’s so sad if my gf got this because of her childhood, not being validated in times of stress.  I wouldn’t have thought it would mess a person up that badly, but she did mention times when her dad would come home at night drunk and yelling...   still it almost seems like not enough stress to cause this level of disorder.

[leggomyeggshell]

@sweetpea you’re right that it’s preferable to stand up for yourself and stuff.  Maybe you’re right.  It’s hard for me to grasp that some days she’s seemingly normal and then all of a sudden changes into this “Hyde” character (see other thread) for like weeks at a time, it’s almost like a split personality sometimes and there’s no easy way to break her out of it.  I keep wanting to see the Jekyll side.

[Sweetpea18]

Well for me, the the Jekyll side was the drug that kept me hooked. She and the relationship itself was an addiction that I knew in the long run wasn’t good for me, my kids, and her. I did everything I could to always keep that Jekyll side present, but in my case, she wouldn’t acknowledge her illness and she  thinks there is nothing wrong with her. I think it’s hard cause the person with BPD, has a way of tapping into the pain in your own soul. There are a lot of people here that can tell you why you stay even though you know it’s not the safest or healthiest. I assure you, leaving and her being gone exposed a huge hole in my soul that i did not realize she covered as a band aid, and how codependent and in pain I was on the inside. It’s not easy, and many times she does and says things to hurt me, but with counseling, friends, family, this place, restoration and healing can happen. It just takes a lot of time, and patience, which I’m not so good with... .go easy on yourself leggo, sometimes, unfortunately we become are harshest critics when we shouldn’t... .

[Yellowpearl]

For example, if an individual is emotionally sensitive (vulnerability), repeatedly confronted with situations that she considers stressful, like being constantly told to ‘suck it up’ when crying (chronic stress) AND has no means available to counteract this stress, like nobody else to validate her feelings (resilience) she is likely to develop some kind of psychological disorder in the long run.This also explains, why some people don’t get traumatized by the same events that others suffer permanent psychological damage from (think PTSD and veterans for example)

Purplex's thoughts on this makes sense to me. I've heard from a therapist about the same idea. To add on that, those who suffered from trauma or neglect during childhood, are more susceptible to developing PTSD or become very highly sensitive and traumatized to stressful events that others wouldn't really be phased by, such as a job loss. This explains why people say BPD could be a result of a bad childhood for some. When the same repeated stress keeps happening over and over again with a lack of validation, the person learns horrible coping mechanisms from a very young age. Any time after that, where the person is invalidated, it likely triggers their childhood feelings of being abandoned or emotionally neglected significantly.

[Red5]

This explains why people say BPD could be a result of a bad childhood for some. When the same repeated stress keeps happening over and over again with a lack of validation, the person learns horrible coping mechanisms from a very young age

The result of this is called the “core wound” (?)... .resultant in the “false self”?

I came across this th other day, www.psycheblog.uk/2017/02/22/borderline-personality-and-abuse-of-non-borderlines-3/

Red5

[Sweetpea18]

Wow, excellent article Red5, that explains a lot, as I look back and can see those different stages with my ex, who is and refuses to be treated.

[Notwendy]

This article makes a lot of sense. I agree with the discussion that lack of validation is a key issue. My BPD mother's FOO is very invalidating. I feel invisible around them. They don't acknowledge anything good about others, except for themselves and their immediate family - who in their eyes can do no bad. They include my mother in this, but they are also condescending to her. As much as she has caused issues, I actually feel sorry for her not being recognized by her FOO.

My H also experienced invalidation as a child, and his father was an odd, distant person. However, his family was more stable than mine and he also experienced caring parents. I think this is why our issues together are milder than my parents' relationship thankfully.

Despite how we grew up - none of my parents' children have BPD. This must speak to resilience of an individual. We do have issues to work on - we lean to co-dependency and enabling. We also had stable loving relatives on my father's side and I think this made a difference.

It isn't a given that a child of a parent will have BPD and also children of loving parents have developed BPD. I think it is a combination of nature/nurture but a third factor is resiliency and I think this is something adults can help a child develop. A loving, stable parent or relative or even family friend can make a positive impact.

[misterblister]

I believe a major clue lies in the fact that many with BPD are highly intelligent. Asynchronously developed children (what most call "gifted" children) are extremely sensitive to trauma. I've worked with them for years and often it's the relatively smallest traumas that can create serious issues in them including phobias.

[Cat Familiar]

I believe a major clue lies in the fact that many with BPD are highly intelligent. Asynchronously developed children (what most call "gifted" children) are extremely sensitive to trauma.

It seems that every pwBPD I’ve known, and I’ve known quite a few, have been highly intelligent, and most have suffered traumatic events as children.

In the news this week is Pete Davidson of Saturday Night Live, who wrote an Instagram post that brought police officers to his house Saturday, thinking he was suicidal. He lost his father in the 911 attack on the World Trade Center.

[Purplex]

I did a quick search if there is scientific evidence for this assumption.
This is an extract from a meta-analysis by Unoka & Richman, conducted in 2016:

“Compared with controls, BPD subjects showed deficits in the decision making, memory, executive functioning, processing speed, verbal intelligence, visuospatial abilities, and attention, while no differences were observed in the overall intellectual ability (i.e., full-scale IQ), nonverbal intelligence, and language domains. Age, sex, race and antidepressant treatment did not influence cognitive performance of the BPD subjects, while BPD patients with more education and with parents of a higher educational level had better neuropsychological functioning.”

According to them, there is no evidence of pwBPD being more intelligent then a comparable healthy control group. But there presumably is a correlation between intelligence and education level for the general population, including pwBPD of course.

In your case misterblister it's very well possible that highly intelligent children are more susceptible to trauma, but there seems to be no obvious connection to BPD in particular, at least as far as studies go.

For you Cat Familiar, your impression might be biased it such a way, that if you are educated yourself, the people you get to know are more likely to have a similar educational background and thus tend to be more intelligent, BPD or not. So your sample might be a bit selective.

I'm not saying you are wrong, there might still be a more complicated correlation that was not taken into account by any researchers yet. This is an interesting approach for sure.

[AskingWhy]

Psychology Today had an article on male BPDs, and discussed a "second best" syndrome, a form of self hatred.  

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-almost-effect/201406/male-borderline-personality-disorder-being-second-best

This seems to be the case with my uBPD/uNPD H.

He is very intelligent, but raised in poverty by a uNPD F.  His younger B was preferred over him.  The younger B and father often went hunting, fishing and camping while H stayed at home repairing clocks and the like.  H is very mechanically gifted, but never went to university due to the family's poverty.  FIL, like many NPDs, thought very highly of himself even though his life had nothing to show for it.

H entered the military and stayed for a career with many accolades.  H has a successful career after the military  while, ironically, his B barely has a low paying job and is a recreational drug abuser.  H's SIL is permanently psychotic from her years of drug abuse.  The B and the F have very little thanks to their poor life choices.  

I think H is always haunted by the "second best" syndrome from his childhood, even with his successful adult life.  In his early 20s, H entered a quick courtship and married his first W, who is likely NPD.  (BPDs often are in relatinships with enablers/nons or NPDs:  early involvement, enmeshment, etc.)  H has very poor self esteerm underneath the polished, accomplished professional exterior.

H makes up for his self hatred by bullying me with name calling, almost weekly threats of divorce, personal criticism, withholding affection, rages and control issues.  H is also enmeshed with all of his adult children from his first marriage, and gets his adult validation from them; he spends thousands of dollars on his children who are experts at manipulating him.  

At first, I was devastated to tears.  Now that I know BPD is an illness, I can take the rages in stride.  It's not always easy, but now I am getting better at not engaging when H dysregulates.  

I know my FIL is in the BPD/NPD spectrum, so who's to say if it's environmental or genetic?  In the end, we all have the same issues to deal with.  

[misterblister]

I did a quick search if there is scientific evidence for this assumption.

That's interesting because it contradicts my personal experience and the general sense I pick up reading about BPD that higher intelligence seems to be more common.

Did that analysis include "high functioning" pwBPD who rarely get diagnosed? Sophisticated verbal skills, faster processing, and superior insight give them the ability to fly under the radar. It seems quite often I read on forums of undiagnosed loved ones outsmarting trained therapists.

[AskingWhy]

That's interesting because it contradicts my personal experience and the general sense I pick up reading about BPD that higher intelligence seems to be more common.

Did that analysis include "high functioning" pwBPD who rarely get diagnosed? Sophisticated verbal skills, faster processing, and superior insight give them the ability to fly under the radar. It seems quite often I read on forums of undiagnosed loved ones outsmarting trained therapists.

Higher intelligence in BPDs is not always the case. BPD is a spectral disorder with a large range of symptoms/manifestations.  Some are very functional in society (jobs, friends, "passing as normal") and some are barely functional and often institutionalized.  It's also common to presume BPD is a women's disorder when, in reality, men are misdiagnosed as APD or NPD.

[Cat Familiar]

It's also common to presume BPD is a women's disorder when, in reality, men are misdiagnosed as APD or NPD.

If I were to guess why men are misdiagnosed, it seems that due to social pressures, they are more likely to hide their vulnerability (fear of abandonment, feelings of emptiness) and highlight their aggressiveness and impulsivity.

[Notwendy]

I think high functioning and low functioning BPD is independent of intelligence.

My BPD mother is very intelligent, completed college, and yet, her emotional issues and lack of executive function make her low functioning.

My H who would not meet all diagnostic criteria but has patterns and traits is highly educated and high functioning.

I think social influences may enhance or suppress traits. My H's- raised as "men don't cry" suppresses his emotions unless he is angry at me. Emotional vulnerability is not a desirable trait to him. Channeling his aggressive traits into non violent and productive ways- education and the workplace- has made them assets that are reinforced by society while gaining the emotional skills for an intimate relationship is not.

My mother has considerable strong points as well, but she was raised in an era where women went to college to find a husband and became housewives. Her academic skills were not reinforced and she was not encouraged to have a career, even if it was possible for her. She is highly intuitive, manipulative and can present a very attractive persona in public. Social norms of her era reinforced this and along with her attractive looks, she succeeded in these expectations.

[Purplex]

That's interesting because it contradicts my personal experience and the general sense I pick up reading about BPD that higher intelligence seems to be more common.

Did that analysis include "high functioning" pwBPD who rarely get diagnosed? Sophisticated verbal skills, faster processing, and superior insight give them the ability to fly under the radar. It seems quite often I read on forums of undiagnosed loved ones outsmarting trained therapists.

They included a total of 1060 patients that were diagnosed with BPD. So they were hospitalized at some point and 'low-functioning' in that sense. As far as I can tell there are no studies yet about people without official diagnosis who only meet some criteria. But I doubt that there is a connection to intelligence on the higher end of the spectrum if there is no connection on the low end. Intelligence in pwBPD is probably normally distributed like it is for the whole population. Some are particularly intelligent, some less so and most are located somewhere in the middle. Keep in mind that personal impressions are often extremely biased.

[Cat Familiar]

Keep in mind that personal impressions are often extremely biased.

Very good point. Also from my experience, it seems I gravitate toward people who are similar to my FOO in certain ways: higher intelligence, introverted, outside-the-box thinkers. Therefore all my BPD friends, acquaintances and spouses have fit this pattern.