No Christmas for you

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My ex told me today that she didn't get the kids gifts or put up a tree so it's good I did.  D6 chimed in, "but you could get a fake tree!" Rather, she explained, she takes them on vacations each year and that's what they'll remember.  I said that she was really taking herself on vacation but to each their own. 

I suppose the recent $850 she owes me for the first phase of D8's orthodontics will go for the cross country plane tickets, a trip the kids already mentioned they are planning.  That's tacked onto the $1500 she currently owes me for copays and summer camp for one of the kids.  The next time she calls me cheap I'll throw it back at her. 

[Turkish]

My ex told me today that she didn't get the kids gifts or put up a tree so it's good I did.  D6 chimed in, "but you could get a fake tree!" Rather, she explained, she takes them on vacations each year and that's what they'll remember.  I said that she was really taking herself on vacation but to each their own. 

I suppose the recent $850 she owes me for the first phase of D8's orthodontics will go for the cross country plane tickets, a trip the kids already mentioned they are planning.  That's tacked onto the $1500 she currently owes me for copays and summer camp for one of the kids.  The next time she calls me cheap I'll throw it back at her. 

[GaGrl]

When was the last time you had a financial meeting with her? My ex and I touched base about every six months specifically on finances - it kept us on the same page. I maintained a run my spreadsheet on shared expenses and reimbursements, and the meeting was to review medical, dental, vision expenses and insurance reimbursements, so he knew the 50% was legit.

You sound resentful. What would help you resolve that?

[Turkish]

This is one of those "don't do what I did" stories. 
I've never had a financial meeting with her. 

For the $20 copays,  we end up taking the kids to the doctor abbr evenly, she a little more.  The majority of dental has been covered up to this point. $35 or $60 here or there I've covered.  I've told her but haven't said,  "can you write me a check?"

When our son was in ABA for almost a year,  each visit was a $20 copay. That was per person,  I found out,  so when a supervisor showed up and then a manger for the monthly clinic netting,  that was more money (it seemed a bit of a racket,  but rust another story). I emailed her those bills and did say that had was her responsibility.  Nothing. 

D had outpatient surgery this summer.  I paid the $100 copay. Nothing.  I signed both kids up for summer camp early because it fills up. 6 hours/day and they get fed breakfast and lunch for lures than $20/day. It saves us a ton of money in childcare.

I warned her about orthodontia two years ago when the dentist saw an adult tooth wouldn't have room to come in.  Everyone knows orthodontia is only partially covered.  D6 will later need  two crowns and either an implant or a bridge. 

So I need to put this on a spreadsheet and send it to her.  I could tell her that I won't allow her to take the kids out of state until she makes an effort to pay,  but that seems scorched earth. 

Right now I give her less than $50/mo because we each pay for one child's martial arts,  and she asked me to add her MA tuition to the auto-withdrawal, which saved her registration fees and gave her a discount.  Me paying for their medical and dental insurances counts as my non cash CS.

This is my fault for being milquetoast. 

I guess I could say,  "I'll keep a running tab and stop paying you likely two years early at this rate." I do have a flex spending account and also deduct the summer camp registration,  which saves me 24% on my top marginal tax rate,  but that is my business and isn't the point. 

[Panda39]

Sounds like your ex has the same thing going on that my SO's uBPDxw has going on.  Over indulgent and neglectful at the same time.  She gives the super duper best mom ever kinds of gifts.  Those things are in part for the kids but they are also about making your ex feel good as a mother, and putting on a show for others (Her family? Friends? You?).  The super duper stuff can also later be used against the kids as FOG.  Obligation... .I did xyz for you now you owe me xyz or Guilt... .I did xyz for you and you won't do xyz for me?

And you are left with all the un-glamorous, practical, day to day parenting stuff and getting less than her fair share of financial participation. Your ex is neglectful in those areas because she doesn't get anything out of it. But by meeting those practical needs you are being the parent your children need. It's un-glamourous, it's financially unfair, it's likely not appreciated by your ex or your kids (though your kids may appreciate it later), and that daily parenting goes unrecognized and is not validated.  (Except here we know what an awesome leader of the pack you are! )

The problem is you have a hot button and that would be, being called "cheap".  It's also tied to the, your a "bad dad" hot button and then you tie in the financial resentment and you have a triggering mix.

I see two choices for the financial situation (others may see more) but they are you can discuss what she owes with her or you can radically accept her limitations (financial & emotional). 

You are doing a good job with your kids, keep up the good work!

Panda39

 

[JNChell]

Your ex is neglectful in those areas because she doesn't get anything out of it.

I have to echo Panda here. I’m beginning to recognize this in my ex. Moreover, realizing through reflection. To be blunt, she seeks resources. In all aspects. My emotional resources dried up and she was done with me. She’s a survivor that holds no interest in thriving. She takes and thinks nothing of it.

[Turkish]

I understood what she got out of going on vacations as much as upper middle class folks I know,  but now that you point out way she doesn't get out of it,  this now seems obvious.  She told me,  "last year I got a real tree and lots of presents but this year I didn't feel like doing any of that."

It's similar to when we first split and she told me how she'd make the kids bacon eggs and pancakes before school. I did that stuff on weekends when we were together,  but I told her,  "breakfast at my place is Eggo waffles or cereal,  and they'd be often munching the waffles in the car on the way to school. Aftee cereal, S8 still munches an apple in the car.   I think she over overcompensated as a mom based upon her mom,  who never worked outside the home. 

It's like there's little balance there,  just one way or the other.  Given that it's her home and her right to run it however she wants, I'm not inclined to say anything.  The kids have more presents to open when I get them back in a week,  and I didn't spend much more than $100 on each of them. 

[JNChell]

I think I’m getting you. S4’s mom is over indulgent when it comes to birthdays and holidays. Too much stuff! I’m trying to remain aware of that and not compete. It sucks to feel like I’m not doing/giving as much to my child, but I’m trying to create a balance. Overindulgence can be toxic. I don’t want to entitle my Son. I talked about this with my T. I thought that she gave good advice. She painted a picture that involved making memories with him more so than gift giving. I like the sound of that. S4’s big gift this year is a Power Wheel truck. I started putting it together but stopped. He’s going to help me build it. It’ll be a great opportunity to validate him and I imagine it will be a memorable experience.

It’s really hard to not be able to spend these times as a family. It’s even harder to accept that it can never be that way. I’m still slipping in and out of the bargaining and magical thinking when it comes to her. I really miss the woman that I fell for.

[takingandsending]

The problem is you have a hot button and that would be, being called "cheap".  It's also tied to the, your a "bad dad" hot button and then you tie in the financial resentment and you have a triggering mix.

I too fall into this dynamic. I think 1 day after my divorce finalized, my L forwarded an email from xw’s L stating xw believes I am in arrears with maintenance and support payments. I have them auto deducted from my paycheck, so I know this isn’t correct, but man does it trigger me. Long story short, I check the math and found that I had been overpaying her $50/paycheck - I recall doing that because we hadn’t yet sold our community house, and we were both struggling with debt. Once the house sold, I forgot to bring the payments down to what we had agreed to. So, I thanked her and her L for having me check it and Informed them that I was correcting the auto deduction to reflect $50 less per payment.

She will always be quick to present bills to me (for haircuts or for half cost of a snack she brought to school for S13’s birthday). She will always contest any bill I present, or simply not pay them or even acknowledge them. Her sense of entitlement has no bounds when it comes to money she feels she deserves. And she will always state that I don’t hold up my end. Nothing I can do about her. She is who she is. Yet it still triggers me.

[Turkish]

She likes buying the kids expensive shoes.  Given her lack of paying me, I've ignored her the last two times she's said, "maybe you can pay for half of their shoes." Clothing isn't in the stipulation and I have receipts.

[JNChell]

Upon getting to know my ex she told me several times that the appearance of her daughter meant a lot to her. She explained how she was never taught to make her clothes match as a child. Mismatched socks and the like. Funny how that’s now somewhat of a fashion trend amongst certain cliques. Maybe her mom is a prophet. Anyway, the stuff. Her daughter’s room was so filled with material items that the floor wasn’t visible. Much higher than ankle deep. It was impossible to find a place for everything. We even had her daughter help us fill garbage bags at one point with items that she would let go and was highly emotional in having to this. S4’s room was well on it’s way after the final split.

I keep it simple at my place. He has enough here. Not too much. He and I will keep things manageable.

[formflier]

Turkish,

I'd advise breaking this down into one step at a time.  Get your spreadsheet right and send it to her with a request for payment. 

Then... once you get a response... .go from there. 

Hang in there ...

FF

[momtara]

I think kids should get something for Christmas like all their friends (if the parents can afford it). Not because material things matter, but because, well, they're kids, and it's Christmas, and that's something they get excited about. they're not mini-adults. I wouldn't judge someone for having good reasons not to get their kids gifts, but her reasoning seems silly.

[Turkish]

$25 at CVS (drug store toy section)  and they'd be happy. 

Today we went to lunch after the orthodontist.  His birthday is on two weeks.  She said,  "so no party?" He wants a Pokemon themed party.  She Said,  " if there's a party,  then at your house. " i said no.  Mexican parties aren't small and i don't want her here,  though i didn't say that.  I offered,  "how about red lobster (seafood place... .he and I love splitting the crab legs plate), and the arcade?" He thought it was ok. Then she sabotaged it by asking further.  "Pokemon decorations!" Sure, and we'll invite your friends!" Ok!

So she'll enlist her mom to throw a big party now.  The party or money isn't an issue (to me), it's just the wishy washy aspect. He was ok with res lobster, arcade, a cake. Now it's a big production.  From no party to "sure,  I'll get a jumper!" We went from $150 to $600. And she still owes me $2000.

Maybe in making a bigger deal out of it than is necessary... .I can afford it.  It's the equivocation which drives me nuts.  And it always did.  Choose a path and follow it!

[GaGrl]

There appears to be some assumptions on her part (continued financial patterns).

What do you think is preventing you from having the financial/responsibility/fairness/legal agreement conversation? (On your side, not hers.)

[Turkish]

I still feel the need to be The Provider. Logically, I know that's stupid.  In previous years, she agreed with me that we didn't need to do a $600+ (or more) party every year. I can hack it financially ay this point.  My resentment is supporting her feelings then she sabotaging herself.

[Panda39]

Why not 2 parties?  You do yours your way (and pay for it) and she does her's her way (and pays for it)?

Panda39

[kells76]

It sounds like as much as the $ situation "isn't working" for you, there's something about it that "is working" for you. (whew, I think I sound like formflier!)

What about your current $ situation with xW is working for you? Is it your role? Her role? Something else?

If I'm hearing you right, not much of this is about the actual money. You can make it work financially. But you feel resentful when you choose to support xW's feelings via a financial route. You see yourself as The Provider -- in fact, you feel like you should be. Maybe the way you act as The Provider -- which you feel like you need to do -- shows up most strongly when you use $ to support something xW wants or suggests for the kids.

So: The way Turkish most strongly feels like he is doing the right thing just happens to be the same way that he feels the most resentment.

Is that close? Or off base?

What do you want?

Would you like things to stay the same? Or change? Or something else?

[Turkish]

I think seperate parties at this point would be weird.
This seems a little thing,  but her tendency to equivocate always drove me nuts.  I'm very flexible and easy going,  but I like to think I'm decisive, not namby pamby. This is like one of those mismatches my T pointed out to me years ago. 

.

So: The way Turkish most strongly feels like he is doing the right thing just happens to be the same way that he feels the most resentment.

Is that close? Or off base?

What do you want?

Would you like things to stay the same? Or change? Or something else?

I've tried to distance myself since the long drive back from a family wedding two months ago where age took the opportunity to basically express frustration about my lack of clearly defined goals in life, and "you never shared with me your hopes and dreams while we were together... ." I don't need to talk about  , or consult a life coach (as she did when we were together), I just do it. 

This is going more into detaching/learning territory,  but maybe my mindset could help step- moms here. 

My ex's birthday was this week on her day with the kids.  They told me about it and that her husband,  their step dad,  brought over a gift and a small cake.  She's been in her subsidized condo for over a year after they physically seperated due to his lack of Providing and also mutual DV (more her). But she keeps stringing this along with no clear plan.  If he moves in,  they get kicked out and rent for a 3 bedroom means at least an extra $1500/mo. They made this mistake over a year after she first moved out and got booted from her 3 bedroom very nice apartment and had to move into a 1 bedroom,  the 3 of them.  Again, the equivocation and not choosing a path. 

What is relevant to this board and which pisses me off is that the kids have a twisted view of what a step parent is.  He's been in their lives for almost 6 years, just before D6 turned 2, and just after S8 turned 4. It bugs me even more seeing the struggles and commitment of the step moms here,  whom I consider the heroes of the boards. I'm not glad handing you all, I mean it.

She called me this morning, frustrated that she forgot to include our son's dental appliance, complaining that she had to make an extra trip during work hours south and then back north to drop it at her parents' house for me to pick up.  She didn't have to call me,  she could have taken care of it and texted of necessary. She knows when I pick up the kids from after school.  She wanted to vent and validation. Not my job anymore! But I realized that's not entirely true. 

Tonight our son (who has ASD1, and is not quite 9) told me that she got mad at him for not reminding her.   

[momtara]

Maybe you two can just go to red lobster as an extra birthday dinner. Ugh, sorry for the manipulation.