Need suggestions as to how to respond to most recent email.

[Music Ace]

I had not responded to udD28 after her unpleasant response to my Happy New Year, sending love text. This is what I received tonight.

I'm going to take some time before I consider responding.

I have no idea what it is that she is referring to regarding my husband.  I know at one point when she was a kid, he commented on her lack of physical exercise and she felt that he called her fat. I also know that recently he told her that he would respect her wish for him not to contact her because she explained every suicide attempt has followed a conversation with us. He told her that he would step back from a relationship with her to keep her from killing herself or even thinking about it. Better she remain alive than him be in her life and cause her anguish.  I saw that email.  He has not spoken to her since October as per her request. I also don't believe I have contact information for ANY of her current 'friends' although I may know their names. (I'm not on social media by choice and because of my job - so I have no contacts that way.)

Suggestions?  I recognize the need to validate  ... .but?  I will be totally honest - I am not prepared to hear what she's accusing him of now. She directs it at me. Why? He can't deny or defend it when she sends it to me. But, if it is an actual accusation, how do I handle that- morally and/or legally.

As I've said before,  there is so much more to her story... .but this is what I'm dealing with tonight.

Why did he even have children if he's just going to be abusive and try to ruin their lives? I honestly cannot comprehend that.

I've had to actually tell my friends that I'm not sure who you guys have phone #s to but to block if you guys got their number and try to get in contact. They all know what biological father has said and done so I've got support but I'm making sure people don't know my address because I'm so scared of things like this.

It's really sad that it's gotten to this point.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

It's great you're asking for feedback and guidance with communicating with your DD, none of this stuff is intuitive and working it out here has been helpful for many members, myself included.

I had not responded to udD28 after her unpleasant response to my Happy New Year, sending love text.

I've brought that response to this thread in order to have a complete picture of the latest communication between the two of you.

Her response:
I've got all the love I need in my life

Not part time people

I have cats and genuine people in my life

And we will most certainly have an amazing night and day

Four weeks of clon tapering. It's hard af and the seizures aren't fun but I've got my people here for me and the only thing that would make my overall life better is having (deceased husband) around.

This is what I received tonight.

Why did he even have children if he's just going to be abusive and try to ruin their lives? I honestly cannot comprehend that.

I've had to actually tell my friends that I'm not sure who you guys have phone #s to but to block if you guys got their number and try to get in contact. They all know what biological father has said and done so I've got support but I'm making sure people don't know my address because I'm so scared of things like this.

It's really sad that it's gotten to this point.

There's not much in the latest reply that I can see to validate, except the last line, "It's really sad it's gotten to this point."

I see some stuff in the first reply that could be validated and it's ok, and sometimes necessary!, to "dig deep" when looking for things to validate. Even though you found the first email unpleasant, are you able to pick one or two tiny nuggets to validate to show she's been heard? The nugget that sticks out to me is that she misses her deceased husband.

She directs it at me. Why? He can't deny or defend it when she sends it to me.

You know her best, do you think she's attempting to talk to her dad through you? In other words, do you think she hopes/knows you will share her words with him? On the other hand, she could be working to get you on her side. Do you have a gut feeling about which it could be?

Either way, I'd be inclined to not respond in defense or in agreement about what she's said about her dad.

Are you familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle? Here's an article you might find helpful.

Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

Take good care,

~ OH

[Music Ace]

Thanks OH - I'm trying not to spend my whole life dwelling on this.  We call it 'pit-bull mentality' in my family (hyper focus vs the ADD/ADHD tendencies my udD28 and I usually have).  She is clearly obsessed on some things though too.  AND, as is a typical pattern, when she has nothing better to do divert her attention, she will pit-bull on something.  So when I get a random email, I remind myself, she had spare time.  Right now, all randoms are either "woe is me" or "I hate ... .", it wasn't always like this ... .and with what she has been through (self inflicted or not), she has some right to intense feelings even if she didn't display BPD tendencies.

I slept last night, though!  I told myself that I'd would think about it in the morning and aim for sleep until then.  I awoke every 2 hours (with a couple of hot flashes thrown in for fun  ), but got back to sleep each time quickly by sending my thoughts away until the morning. (TY Therapist!)

Here are my thoughts for a follow up email.  These are inspired by your suggestion OH and my possible triangulation other daughter (25).

Oh udD28, missing HUSBAND is so difficult.  I know he was your best friend.  I can't even imagine what you're going through. 

Giving yourself a chance to regroup in NEW CITY, also might let you enjoy your memories when you want to?  I hope the CAT #1 and CAT #2 have adjusted well to the move.  Did CAT #2 boss CAT #1 around as CAT #1 got used to the new place? 

What you guys had was so special, every day, I am truly sorry for your loss.

Love you lots

Mom

[Music Ace]

regarding the Karpman Drama Triangle ... .I am the poster child RESCUER!  I even recognize that I have ulterior motives sometimes and play the manipulation game very VERY well (well, perhaps not as well as I thought LOL).  I have played the VICTIM, although that's not my usual place.  I can be the PERSECUTOR (but, played well, then I can actually justify that I was the RESCUER or VICTIM instead) .  The rest of my family don't have 'people' skills like I do.  I'm a brilliant manipulator ... .but usually for good and not for evil, that's always been my justification for using my skills ... .but it is for MY understanding of what is good or for my benefit (or once or twice, just to see the power I could have - I feel guilt about those times but truly learned the power that I had developed).  Perhaps my udD28 saw it upon occasion too?  I always thought she was just jealous of how I could, or misunderstood how humans could, interact effectively and easily.  I do consciously NOT use my skills as often as I used to, but I know I still can and do, do it.  If I catch myself unconsciously manipulating because I don't want to own a mistake I've made, I try really hard to back down and stop talking or acknowledge.  ... .okay enough self reflection and 'admission'.  

Back to this DRAMA TRIANGLE concept ... .flippant question ... .can I be all three in one shot?  IF I'm engaging with my udD28 ... .I truly suspect between the two of us, we could dance our way through all 3 roles with my silent husband (or her silent husband if we were a couple of years back) relegated to whatever role we told each other that they had.  This would NOT have been helpful for my poor kid.  

SO - let's see what I can do to fix me and my approach ... .or at least HELP me understand and get better at parking in middle or getting out of a corner if I naturally gravitate there.

I think setting my boundaries, I have already started the process.  BUT, I'm not sure she's understood that I set boundaries, I may just be a pain in her butt because I don't jump every time she vents.  To her credit, though, she told us ... .DON'T OFFER OPINIONS/SUGGESTIONS all the time.  You make me feel stupid like I can't do it myself.  We both heard her and told her unequivocally that we would LISTEN and not FIX or even offer to FIX unless she directly ASKS.  We have been consistent with that for about 6 months, just a couple months after her HUSBAND's death.  She doesn't 'ask', she complains about or discusses something, I no longer bite.  I just listen.  When I can't take it any longer, I will ask permission to make a suggestion or observation and she can say yes or no then depending on what she likes.  BUT, in crisis, she hears herself asking for help, and we hear her venting ... .so we fall down in her eyes of not 'helping'.  Even though we have clearly set our boundary for her and us of NOT AUTOMATICALLY JUMPING IN, but waiting for her to ask and allowing her to simply vent without solving it.  BUT, this has made her a more effective VICTIM to anyone else ... .sigh.  BUT, it is to anyone else that really doesn't matter in our lives, and I must remind myself of that because I worry so much about what others think of me (her lawyer, her in-laws, her real estate agent, her friends, her previous boss, her cats, her neighbours ... .seriously, I have a problem LOL - none of these people really REALLY matter, except for cats and perhaps her friends).  SO, with my paranoia of how people view me ... .am I the RESCUER or do I quickly shape shift and promptly become the VICTIM?  

GAH ... .AND, if there is no actual 3rd (or more) party present ... .can this DRAMA TRIANGLE still be perpetuated?  Because with the two of us, it sure seems like it can.  The 3rd person just has no say, they are stuck there or forced there by their connection to us.

OK - that's my in the head thinking ... .for now.  

I'm going to go write 3 words in our fun story and then shower and suggest to my husband that we go out for a tea and maybe a walk somewhere.

(for the record, I am NOT rereading or grammar or spell checking this entry - apologies for stream of consciousness)

Ace

[Music Ace]

Nothing like answering myself and not giving anyone else a chance

Here is what I've sent ... .no subject line, 'cause I couldn't come up with something ... .so I copped out and didn't include one.

Missing HUSBAND is so difficult. I know he was your best friend.  I can't even imagine what you going through on a daily basis.  Being frustrated with Dad doesn't make anything easier.

Giving yourself a chance to regroup in NEW CITY also might let you enjoy your memories of HUSBAND when you want to?  I hope that CAT #1 and CAT #2 have adjusted well to the move. Did CAT #2 boss CAT #1 around as CAT #1 got used to the new place?

What you and HUSBAND had was so special. Every day, I am truly sorry for what you have lost.

Love you lots

Mom

[Lollypop]

Hi Ace

can I be all three in one shot?

I think it’s possible for me to be all three at once, in a long conversation, highly emotional and reacting. Yes, absolutely.

But I don’t do that anymore. My progress started with baby steps. It started with not reacting first and boy, oh boy, it took a lot of practise.

I think it’s fantastic you’re here and asking questions - importsny reflecting your learning to your own situation. You are doing exactly what you need to right now.

For what it’s worth, I focussed on my own relationship with my son28 as my top priority.  He has a prickly relationship with his Dad, my husband. Thinking about that triangle and my priority. There’s nothing I can do or say that will make a jot of difference in their relationship. It’s their problem to solve, not mine. But what I can do is demonstrate better interaction myself and hope they both learn. I can also refuse to enter into a discussion about my husbands “failings” with my son as a boundary using SET. The truth being, I don’t feel comfortable doing so and I don’t want to be used as a go between. If son28 has a gripe he should speak to his dad about it. This can be done in a warm and loving way - preferably in person and not by text.

Hope you get a balanced reply back soon!

LP

[Only Human]

Ace,

Any response from DD to your latest email?

~ OH

[Music Ace]

I just got a response  ... .and I'll take it as a win for today with credit due to input from here and from my younger daughter.

NOW  ... .the next email ... .24 more hours to ponder  ... .see my initial thoughts below.  I know less is more  ... .but less is so soo hard.

Ace


What dad said gave me more reason to continue the path I'm on and making a difference as to how males treat females. I never realized how much this happened in my own life until I cared more about it. The changes I've been able to help with are hopefully life changing and save lives so females aren't treated the same way we used to be.


HUSBAND was everything to me, regardless of how unhealthy that could be considered. He'd be very proud of who I've become and what I stand up for and what I've already accomplished.


CAT #1 and CAT #2 are getting used to the new place slowly.


It was always so apparent how connected you and HUSBAND were. You challenged each other to be advocates. He would be proud of how strong you are.

I remember your telling me about how you were constantly cat called when you first got to Toronto.  I wanted to blame the big city, but it happened to you in kitchener and you were hassled at school. I asked SISTER if she'd ever experienced anything like that ... .she said yup, you just get used to it and ignore it.

Things are so much better than even 50 years ago, but you see how much further things need to come. You have a vision. HUSBAND would be proud. 

Thank you for sharing that.

I'm glad the cats are adjusting.  CAT #1 will be so grateful you're there. She trusts you so much now.

It's back to school on Monday for me with reports coming up quickly. Never a dull moment .

Love you lots

Mom

[Music Ace]

And in a surprising twist of events.  Our daughter showed up at our door at 10:00 am. About 2 hours after a particularly nasty 2 emails to my husband/her dad.

It went WELL. But then I'll qualify and say it went well FOR TODAY.

It's so surreal.  I'm still reminding myself that it actually did happen.

So that's where we are today. Definitely a surprise and today, at least, I can say it's a good one.

Ace

[Only Human]

Hi Ace,

I'm so happy to hear that today was a good one and that your DD dropping by went well.

It went WELL. But then I'll qualify and say it went well FOR TODAY.

One day at a time, Ace. That today went well is to be celebrated.

It's so surreal.  I'm still reminding myself that it actually did happen.

Care to share more?

Thanks for sharing your good news with us, Ace.

Onward!

~ OH