Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 12:50:28 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Victimhood in pwBPD AND Nons  (Read 769 times)
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« on: January 06, 2019, 11:27:17 AM »

These pages are full of stories of people with BPD who feel victimized, taken advantage of, unfairly treated. But at the same time, so many of us Nons have similar accounts.

When I first arrived here, I was filled with anger, resentment and disappointment over becoming aware that I had married yet another pwBPD. What I failed to notice or appreciate at that time was that my current husband is kind, morally upstanding, and basically a very nice human being, quite a difference from my first husband with BPD.

It took me a long time to get past my sense of aggrieved victimhood and I thank those who have listened to my stories with kind guidance and helpful direction. Getting past victimhood is an evolving process and for those of us who had parents with BPD, we learned the victimhood template early.

How about you? In what ways are you aware of victimhood in your own lives?

Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 01:37:45 PM »

This was a focus of a wise MC. If I vented- she turned it around on me. The perspective of victimhood is not really productive in the long run.

Even though I agree with that -.i also think venting has a function. I don’t vent to people in my world - it would be destructive. The times I have vented here have helped me gain perspective and feel I’m not the only one.

Venting can be useful to let off some steam - especially if doing so in our relationship would cause damage - but in the long run we should not remain in victim perspective if we want to make progress in our own emotional growth. I try to see it as - if you’re on a diet it’s the occasional piece of cake. It feels good in the moment and ok to do on occasion but a steady diet of it or too much of it can derail your goals to improvement.
Logged
Enabler
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Living apart
Posts: 2790



« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 07:02:46 AM »

I have found that stating the facts and then having a blank expression leads people to their own state of confusion. Removing any personal emotion from the facts is more powerful and receiving back empathy rather than sympathy... .I'm not sure about you but I don't want sympathy, I want empathy, enhanced understanding and alternative perspectives... .based on the facts, not my feelings.
Logged

Ozzie101
Ambassador
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1915



« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 09:17:39 AM »

Very interesting and enlightening point. Thinking about it, I can see that, yes, I've let a victim mentality creep in and that's not productive. I don't like to see myself as a victim but I think I've been headed that way. Like you, Enabler, I don't want sympathy. I'd rather have empathy from people who understand and a new way of looking at things.

Venting is VERY helpful. But it's important to not just vent, but to also be productive and look for solutions.

Sometimes I worry that I'm seeing everything from a very skewed perspective and that I'm not being fair to H.

That said, in my case, there is very definite abuse going on and I don't want to go too far the other way -- where I end up glossing over or denying the reality of what's happening in my life and relationship.

I'm struggling with looking at things clearly -- seeing things, as Enabler says, through facts, not feelings.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 11:45:35 AM »

Venting can be useful to let off some steam - especially if doing so in our relationship would cause damage - but in the long run we should not remain in victim perspective if we want to make progress in our own emotional growth. I try to see it as - if you’re on a diet it’s the occasional piece of cake. It feels good in the moment and ok to do on occasion but a steady diet of it or too much of it can derail your goals to improvement.

I agree, Notwendy. That is a healthy perspective to have when one's life is mostly centered and balanced. However, lots of people arrive here who have been stuffing their feelings for years. When they finally begin to share their thoughts, it's like a river of complaints bursts through. (That was me.   ) And it took quite a while for me to finally feel empty of all those feelings that I suppressed for so long out of fear, in my case, but for some it's likely more due to obligation and guilt.

I have found that stating the facts and then having a blank expression leads people to their own state of confusion. Removing any personal emotion from the facts is more powerful and receiving back empathy rather than sympathy... .I'm not sure about you but I don't want sympathy, I want empathy, enhanced understanding and alternative perspectives... .based on the facts, not my feelings.

Good points, Enabler and I've got a great poker face. Sympathy isn't what I want--I want understanding. And unfortunately that's often in short supply when one lives with a pwBPD.

Sometimes when I hope to get a different viewpoint from my husband, I will recount something in detail, hoping that he will, as you mentioned, give me an alternate perspective.

If he's feeling not at his best, often what I hear is, "Oh, poor you!" in a sarcastic tone of voice.

It's sad when we cannot rely on our SO to be supportive or helpful, but sometimes that's just the way it is. I've learned to assess his mood before I ask, but sometimes I pick a poor moment to ask for his opinion.

Venting is VERY helpful. But it's important to not just vent, but to also be productive and look for solutions.

Sometimes I worry that I'm seeing everything from a very skewed perspective and that I'm not being fair to H.

Yes venting has been very helpful to me and I'm glad I don't feel the need to do that much anymore.  However, if you just look at the facts, you are likely cutting your husband more slack than you think, Ozzie. Unfortunately in a relationship with a pwBPD, that doesn't seem to be reciprocal.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 12:09:11 PM »

I probably would have vented a lot more except that I had been to counseling along the way. It was a safe space to vent and mostly the counselor listened to me. This time, we went to a MC and it was the first time a counselor had turned the mirror on me. It wasn't pleasant and I was angry at times but it pushed me to grow in ways just listening to me didn't.

My sponsor in 12 steps did the same. It felt like emotional boot camp but I'm grateful for it.

Still, I think it is OK to do it sometimes. Sometimes you just need to crawl into bed with a piece of chocolate cake and indulge yourself before you get back to emotional crunches and push ups.
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 12:13:26 PM »

I don't think taking victim perspective or even being in that position is effective with someone with BPD who is also in victim perspective. There can't be two victims. Trying to explain to them how their behavior is hurtful and not to do it, isn't effective for me. When someone is feeling like a victim, they believe their behavior is justified.

Sometimes during our circular arguments, I would cry out of frustration. That would escalate things. It's better to remain as calm as possible and to disengage ,or leave when things get emotionally heated.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 12:13:54 PM »

This time, we went to a MC and it was the first time a counselor had turned the mirror on me. It wasn't pleasant and I was angry at times but it pushed me to grow in ways just listening to me didn't.

My sponsor in 12 steps did the same. It felt like emotional boot camp but I'm grateful for it.


They probably both realized that you were strong enough to handle having the mirror turned back on you.

Yes, at a certain point, venting can become a bad habit and nothing good will come from it. In fact, it will focus us upon "what's wrong" and if we look at life that way, we can always find something wrong!  
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 12:24:49 PM »

I don't think taking victim perspective or even being in that position is effective with someone with BPD who is also in victim perspective. There can't be two victims. Trying to explain to them how their behavior is hurtful and not to do it, isn't effective for me. When someone is feeling like a victim, they believe their behavior is justified.


I try not to complain about my longstanding injuries, but recently I participated in some road clearing with neighbors, where I was cutting and dragging brush for six hours. I mentioned something about needing to use the far infrared heating pad because my shoulder was sore.

My husband, who had spent the time watching TV, (and he had a good excuse not to work since he'd recently had surgery on his hand to remove a skin cancer) mentioned how sore his shoulder was.

I just had to laugh... .Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)... .how clueless can someone be?  
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 12:34:11 PM »

It was bewildering when I was pregnant and had a lot of nausea. He'd say things like " women have been having babies for millennia, what's the big deal? " If I said I was tired- he'd say " I'm tired too". or "who gets more sleep you or me?" as if it was some kind of contest and he didn't see I was carrying a baby? It was so odd, but also sad. I didn't expect that kind of response. I don't expect empathy now. I think we have to readjust our expectations.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 12:40:59 PM »

That is truly sad, Notwendy, that he couldn't imagine how difficult it was for you during your pregnancies. His only focus was upon himself.

It makes sense that he doesn't get the same fulfillment as you do from your children when all he can think about is how he feels.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ozzie101
Ambassador
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1915



« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 12:54:31 PM »

It was bewildering when I was pregnant and had a lot of nausea. He'd say things like " women have been having babies for millennia, what's the big deal? " If I said I was tired- he'd say " I'm tired too". or "who gets more sleep you or me?" as if it was some kind of contest and he didn't see I was carrying a baby? It was so odd, but also sad. I didn't expect that kind of response. I don't expect empathy now. I think we have to readjust our expectations.


That really is sad. It's stressful, but should also be such a happy time. I get similar stuff from H. When I caught a cold, he was annoyed that it meant I wasn't in the mood for sex. Likewise, when my cycle starts, he starts in again on how I need to get a hysterectomy. So he won't be inconvenienced anymore.

Sometimes when I'm sick, I do get empathy and thoughtfulness but even then, it's usually followed by a rant eventually. Now when I get any kind of ailment or hit that time of the month, it makes me feel worse because I know what it will cause at home.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 10:46:36 PM »

Do any of you get tired of hearing the “poor me” complaints? Sometimes I can almost predict when he’s going to start in on how much his back hurts or why his sisters never call him enough.

I used to offer strategies that I thought might be helpful, but of course he never took any of my advice. Now I just listen and say very little. And that seems to work a lot better. He doesn’t get upset hearing unsolicited advice and I don’t get frustrated when he ignores my suggestions.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Enabler
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Living apart
Posts: 2790



« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2019, 04:15:53 AM »

I have to say that if there was one behaviour that really really fills me with complete internal rage is when W fishes for sympathy for her 'poor me' situation. 99.99999% of the time she has cause the situation in the first place and typically it's some minor issue anyway. I find her airing these gripes utterly disrespectful... .or used to anyway... .It's one of the Narc elements of the disorder, pwPD's are so wrapped up in themselves and their feelings that they just can't see the woods for the trees. They can't see how complaining you're tired because you've been out with friends drinking till 2am is pretty insulting to the guy who woke up at 5am to go to work... .and who didn't get to sleep until 2am because he was worried about what the heck you might be getting up to. It's maddening and I feel livid when I hear it.

It gets NO air-time anymore and I don't even respond. If you don't have anything good to say, say nothing.
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2019, 05:16:27 AM »

I don't hear a lot of complaints but if I have a complaint, it is responded to with a complaint or a statement that feels like a competition. He seems to feel insulted if I express a negative feeling. I tend to avoid doing that.

I know you work hard Enabler, and my H does too. We've both had our pressures from work and raising kids, but there doesn't seem to be a way to constructively share feelings of frustration. I'm not out drinking or lounging around, shopping excessively while he works all day. How do your kids reconcile your wife's behavior? Surely they notice. I did as a child and often wondered why my mother wasn't like my friends' mothers.
Logged
Enabler
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Living apart
Posts: 2790



« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 05:50:20 AM »

They are becoming more and more and more vocal about things and certainly more emboldened to pull out the BS card on occasions (which they are typically shot down for).

W - I never get to go out    Kids - You're out all the time Mummy, you're never in
W - I never get to exercise      Kids - You go running all the time and go for a bike ride every Sat morning... .You're out all Saturday morning Mummy, it's really inconvenient and wastes half the day for us.
W - I don't have any clothes to wear     Kids - You have loads of clothes, what about this that and the other
W - I don't get any time to myself   Kids -  You spend loads of time with your friends, why don't you do less of that.

I'm not asking for special treatment or to lord it over people that I work relatively long hours (many work more)... .I would just like enough respect that someone acknowledges it enough to not try and play victim with me that they have such a tough life, when in reality they live a pretty charmed existence vs the rest of the country. For the past 3 years I have seen little or no evidence at all of what she does on a Monday and Tuesday which is productively additive to 'the household'. It's now a contemptuous battle of attrition where she drops more and more responsibilities in favor of suiting herself... .

Enabler
Logged

Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 10:08:08 AM »

So some of the recurring issues seems to be lack of empathy for the Non and a sense of competition about "who has it worst".

As young as they are, Enabler's kids are noticing the black and white thinking of their mother and challenging her about statements that they perceive to not be true.

Other than ignoring the complaints, offering unsolicited solutions, confronting veracity, have you found any strategies that help either you to tolerate this behavior or to assuage your partner's need for sympathy?
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Enabler
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Living apart
Posts: 2790



« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 10:17:48 AM »

My W is excellent at recruiting, she seeks out the "there there poor you" "You alright hon" types or even better man haters. So, if I don't provide unwarranted sympathy she will more than happily go elsewhere to seek her shallow validation of "you're alright, I'm alright, they're all wrong, life is tough and the world has WRONGED ME". Nothing short of unequivocal validation will do, no SET... .she's too fragile for the T bit.

She's no desire to truth seek, she's actively avoiding it.

She's still seeking to look elsewhere for the blame hence her current read given to her by her mother is 'Unravelled' (the film on Netflix is Kingdom of Us).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unravelled-inspirational-story-journey-darkness-ebook/dp/B00L1ENC0O   ... .apparently I'm the one that's going to take myself to the woods to commit suicide having spent years suffering with mental illness.

Logged

Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2019, 10:59:17 AM »

My W is excellent at recruiting, she seeks out the "there there poor you" "You alright hon" types or even better man haters. So, if I don't provide unwarranted sympathy she will more than happily go elsewhere to seek her shallow validation of "you're alright, I'm alright, they're all wrong, life is tough and the world has WRONGED ME". Nothing short of unequivocal validation will do, no SET... .she's too fragile for the T bit.

It's comparable to someone who is constantly hungry but only wants to eat sugary pastries and then gets a blood sugar spike. Instead of selecting a complex carbohydrate that could make her feel better, she continues to eat the blueberry turnovers and wonders why she has a headache and is extremely tired an hour later.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 03:09:25 PM »

Enabler, you will find this story to be familiar- but a different era.

At some point, we began to wonder what does our mother did all day.

She also misplaced blame on various people or events, but the ultimate one was the growing woman's movement. She now had a reason to not do housework or child care. She was a "liberated" woman. Soon, MS magazines would come to the home and she and her friends had a "woman's lib" group.

I'm in favor of the gains from that movement that  allowed women to gain  access to opportunities besides being housewives which was the expected role in my mother's era, but my interpretation was that they would be trading time in that role for a place in the workforce. For my mother, it meant a reason to not do what she wasn't doing anyway, and she didn't enter the workforce. We still wondered what my mother did all day.

Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 06:38:50 PM »

Notwendy, apparently your mother felt like she deserved a free pass from traditional "women's work" but through taking advantage of her situation, it didn't provide any sustenance for her self esteem. She's now an entitled old woman who doesn't understand why her children and grandchildren don't adore her. Does that sound about right?
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Vincenta
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 130


« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 06:56:21 PM »

Very interesting topic indeed.

My experience:
 
My BPD partner takes a pride him 'never complaining' - although he actually complains all the time!... whether it is an 'idiot' co-worker, process at work, sibling, politician on tv show, just a person sitting next to him in airplane... .always something is getting on his nerves... .(if not me).
Whereas then I am not allowed to say anything anywhere near negative ever! E.g. if I say only say 'oh gosh, had to wait 2 hours at the vet'... .the response from pwBPD is ' oh you are so negative... .you do not have any real problems... .poor you (in a mocking way).

Now, the above could be also of course taken as a part of my victimhood and actually it is a kind of venting.
But also a fact - that is the way most of BPDs tend to be. Very limited skills to see any  (even the little) positive things.

And that is what I think we nons should promote and keep - seeing also the (sometimes tiny little) positive in our life!  And support each other.

I just joined the forum couple of weeks ago, pretty traumatized and tired. I vented a lot in my posts and probably still do and will do at this forum for a while perhaps (please bear with me! .
 However, I do not want to feel or see myself as a 'victim' and indeed I am not - we can choose our partners; perhaps I chose wrongly and did not know everything  - however, am an adult and responsible for my own choices.


 





 


Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2019, 10:19:25 PM »

We are so glad you’re here, Vincenta. Vent away, without shame or self consciousness. It’s a necessary step in healing!

Cat
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Enabler
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Living apart
Posts: 2790



« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 02:07:28 AM »

Enabler, you will find this story to be familiar- but a different era.

Oh my oh my Notwendy, how very very correct you are.

Like you, I am all for freedom of choice for all as to where they feel they can be productive. I was mulling over this topic last night in the car on the way home. In the past my W's flying monkeys, some very 'feminist', have been outraged that I would kick up a stink about my W not cleaning the house or spending more time in and around the home... .and I can totally see where they might be coming from if my 'stink' was seen in isolation, however it was not me who decreed that my W should take responsibility and choose to do these tasks, it was her choice, in fact she even said that it was God's calling for her to do this... .I even have the emails to prove it.

This led me to think that when someone manipulates another  to get what they want in the first place, promising things they invariably can't deliver... .well inevitably they have to implement further manipulation to get themselves out of the impossible corner they've got themselves into. When a person can't hold themselves accountable for their mistakes and has to maintain an element of perfection to their life choices it requires manipulation to avoid the glaring elephants in the room of:

You're not doing what you said you were going to do
You're not productive
Your reasons for not doing things are spurious at best
You haven't done what you said you did
You don't deserve the sympathies you're asking for
You messed up and this is not my problem
You don't deserve the reward you're asking for
You have no credibility

It's tough if not impossible to have respect for someone who consistently fails to make themselves accountable, has no credibility and is deceitful.

Enabler
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 06:08:09 AM »

That ties in to how as a teen, who didn't understand her disorder, I found it hard to feel respect for my mother. Having choices didn't make responsibilities disappear. The women's movement brought about the idea that it didn't have to be the woman, but someone has to do it and there needs to be a mutual agreement between the responsible adults.

Cat, I think you made a good point about self esteem. If someone doesn't have responsibilities- either at work, working with animals, or taking care of home/kids, it's hard to know a sense of accomplishment and that hampers self esteem. 

Welcome Vincenta! I've heard this kind of thing too " I don't complain"
Logged
Ozzie101
Ambassador
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1915



« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2019, 07:47:08 AM »

Vincenta, welcome! There is a difference between venting and painting oneself as a victim, I think. Venting is healthy. It's good to get all those thoughts and feelings out. It's when one dwells on them and can't (or won't) see the positive that it gets to be unhealthy. Or when one won't accept their own responsibility. Sounds like you have a very good approach to things!


My BPD partner takes a pride him 'never complaining' - although he actually complains all the time!... whether it is an 'idiot' co-worker, process at work, sibling, politician on tv show, just a person sitting next to him in airplane... .always something is getting on his nerves... .(if not me).
Whereas then I am not allowed to say anything anywhere near negative ever! E.g. if I say only say 'oh gosh, had to wait 2 hours at the vet'... .the response from pwBPD is ' oh you are so negative... .you do not have any real problems... .poor you (in a mocking way).


My H doesn't say "I don't complain" exactly. What he says is "I'm so easy and laid-back." He's not. Like your partner, something is always getting on his nerves or making him angry. Something as simple as the food coming too quickly at a restaurant will put him in a funk. Like you, if I complain about something, I get "Cue the tiny violins." Or it will set him off on a list of his problems and inconveniences for the day to prove how I had it far better than he did.

Seeing the positive is, as you suggest, a very good thing to do. It's something I try to do every day. I give people the benefit of the doubt when they annoy me or do something "wrong." I try to not make a big deal out of things. I easily forgive people. H tells me I'm being a "pu$$y". Yet, I know I'm happier for doing that.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2019, 12:20:07 PM »

Enabler and Notwendy, you've both touched upon an important point. When individuals don't do their share of typical human responsibilities for daily living, it's easy to lose respect for them. And from there, we can easily transit to contempt, which ultimately is a very toxic emotion and further leads to breakdown of the relationship.

And further, when there's a huge disconnect in the way that individual perceives him or herself, it can feel surreal to compare our perception of reality with the self image they promote.

What to do about this? In Notwendy's case as a young person, she had no "standing" to confront her mother or ask that things be different. It's a touchy subject, even between peers, as it involves self-image.

I made the mistake of being very direct with my husband when I had grown increasingly irritated with him leaving wet laundry in the washer for days to mildew. Knowing him, had I finished his laundry, it most likely would have become one of my "new" responsibilities.

But directly speaking my mind and telling him that when I wanted to do my wash, I was frustrated to regularly find wet laundry that had been there for days--well, that was not a good strategy, as it elicited a "You hate me," response.

Since then, I've been putting his wet laundry in the laundry basket and doing my wash. When I'm done, I put his laundry back in the washer. He's observed that I've done my laundry and it's triggered a memory a few times of his wet laundry. So he has been trying to be more mindful in the last couple of years.

What never previously occurred to me was how forgetting wet laundry could be tied to self esteem. If I were to have inconvenienced someone by being forgetful, I would be momentarily embarrassed, offer an apology, laugh at myself. With a pwBPD the same event can trigger deep shame.



Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2019, 12:31:18 PM »

My H doesn't say "I don't complain" exactly. What he says is "I'm so easy and laid-back." He's not. Like your partner, something is always getting on his nerves or making him angry. Something as simple as the food coming too quickly at a restaurant will put him in a funk. Like you, if I complain about something, I get "Cue the tiny violins." Or it will set him off on a list of his problems and inconveniences for the day to prove how I had it far better than he did.

Seeing the positive is, as you suggest, a very good thing to do. It's something I try to do every day. I give people the benefit of the doubt when they annoy me or do something "wrong." I try to not make a big deal out of things. I easily forgive people. H tells me I'm being a "pu$$y". Yet, I know I'm happier for doing that.

I think the essence of these two paragraphs are often linked in the BPD mind. A skewed self perception can lead them to believe they are laid-back and uncomplaining. But at the same time, they are sorting reality, looking for "what's wrong" and how other people have offended them.

My husband painted himself as a laid-back Type B guy, but once I really got to know him well, I can see how wound up he is and that he's a Type A, masquerading as a Type B. We have a different issue at restaurants. He repeatedly looks at his watch from the time the order is taken until the food is served, and knows, to the minute, how long it has taken. If other diners who were seated after us get their food before we do, this further agitates him.

Having worked in restaurants, I'm very understanding and timing never is a concern. So his agitation is uncomfortable to watch and I try to ignore it as much as possible.

I'm with you, Ozzie, giving people the benefit of the doubt and not making a big deal out of insignificant things makes my life so much more comfortable.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Red5
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 1661


« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2019, 09:48:20 AM »

... .We have a different issue at restaurants.

... .repeatedly looks at his watch from the time the order is taken until the food is served, and knows, to the minute, how long it has taken.

... .If other diners who were seated after us get their food before we do, this further agitates him.

Having worked in restaurants, I'm very understanding and timing never is a concern. So his agitation is uncomfortable to watch and I try to ignore it as much as possible.

I'm with you, Ozzie, giving people the benefit of the doubt and not making a big deal out of insignificant things makes my life so much more comfortable.

Late to the post Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

This all used to drive me nuts too, .what's the saying down at the neighborhood steak house... ."no worries mate"... .if 'only'... .but no 

I used to try to "smooth it over" with a "chow hall, or ships mess deck story"... .but that only made it worse, .

Me, I'm just happy to even be there, so what if x-y, & z... .we'll eat soon, so "take it easy"... .have another drink!

Let the nice restaurant staff folks attend to the others, they have little kids with them... .we are in no hurry, "be nice"... .oh' that would set her off, learnt real quick to not ever say things like that!

~> (egg shells)

I got to the point that even the thought of going out to eat with uBPDw, made me "nervous"... .

Yes, the never ending victimization... .

If it wasn't restaurant staff, it was the cashier at the store, or the lady on the phone (cable bill)... .or the flag man who is blocking traffic so the paving machinery can pass by... .yeah, fill in the _____ .

Excerpt
Victimhood in pwBPD AND Nons

Great topic Cat 

Logged

“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
Vincenta
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 130


« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2019, 01:08:03 PM »

Red - nothing better than a nice romantic candle light dinner pwBPD 
I know exactly what you mean.

Notwendy and Ozzie, many thanks for your warm welcome! I am so thankful for the support and advice here, and it truly makes a difference.

Ozzie, you wrote:
I give people the benefit of the doubt when they annoy me or do something "wrong." I try to not make a big deal out of things. I easily forgive people. H tells me I'm being a "pu$$y". Yet, I know I'm happier for doing that.


Well, I am like that too. And it certainly makes me happier - anything else were also against my core values.

Unfortunately I think that at least with my pwBPD,  often 'kindness is taking for weakness'.

I think that he somehow even sometimes despises me for being 'weak' (i.e. not creating/attending drama, forgiving him or others etc). IMHO the root causes might be

1) When in rage/push mode, he probably prefer me to get absolutely furious & gaga and leave him for good - it were a good justification for him to sink in a complete self-pity and victimhood (and oh - those strong feelings, instead of emptiness... .! - probably less shame, too, getting the partner on the same toddler level)

and/or

2) He has a (subconscious?) need for a strong, dominating 'mom/dad' figure who would set up very strict boundaries for his behaviour, thus protecting him from his own actions

Does any of this resonate with your experiences... .?

   
 


Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!