helping child of BPD ex

[countingdown]

My ex is BPD, and it is severely affecting my daughter, who is 15.5 years old and lives primarily with her.  My daughter is neglected because her mother is in an endless (so far, 4 years) legal fight with the father of her second child, and devotes all her energies to that.  She is abused because her mother turns every relationship in her life into an all-out emotional war . . . and then pretends that everything is fine and everyone loves each other, until the next blow-up.  Since my daughter now lives alone with her mother, and her mother has been legally virtually crushed by the father of her second child (who has won primary physical custody), she is catching the brunt of this compulsive hostility now.

In August my daughter turned herself in to the police, telling them that she wanted to kill her mother and then herself.  She has been "stabilized" since then through drugs and therapy.  My daughter knows that her mother is not well, and asked me to get her out in September . . . but then changed her mind before I could pull the legal trigger, under the impact of her mother's emotional bludgeoning and blackmail (including of course threats of suicide). 

My daughter has been in three different IOP programs, and seen 7 different therapists in the past year (BPD chaos).  Those therapists with whom I have been in contact (four of the seven) have consistently told me I should not move faster than my daughter is ready for.  My daughter has never spoken to any of them about her mother's illness or abuse.  She confirmed that yesterday--that her current therapist knows nothing about what goes on between her and her mother.  After the latest blow-up from her mother, which left my daughter asking me whether I think she is a bad person, she decided to talk to her therapist; but then she "chickened out" because she is "not comfortable" talking to therapists. 

My daughter is on Zoloft, has a 504 plan in school, and sees a therapist once a week.  She has told me in the past (in her last IOP) that "they're treating me for the wrong thing"--for depression rather than her mother's abuse.  Still, she won't talk to her therapist about the real problem.  She tells me that they talk about her "diagnoses" (PTSD, depression, learning disability), her "depression" (feeling bad because her mother abuses her and then blames her for their constant blow-ups), and her "problems concentrating."

I have spoken to five lawyers and a custody evaluator in the last year; they have all told me that unless my daughter says she wants out, I am not likely to succeed in getting her out.  They have also all told me that it will take six months to two years to get her out.  Right now, there is no way that my daughter could stand her ground for that long against her mother's vicious manipulation.   (Last time, she held out for two weeks.)

I have come to think that perhaps I am enabling my daughter's continued refusal to talk to her therapists about anything real, by listening to her when she is distressed.  I have also started to wonder whether the therapists are far too conservative in their approach.  My daughter's problem is that she is emotionally abused; she needs to get away from her mother.  She absolutely blossoms when she is with me for extended periods (summers, Christmas, etc.).  But she lives 10 months of the year with her mother, and she needs external validation of what she knows to be true--validation that does not come from me.

I have also started to wonder whether the lawyers are simply not focusing on the depth of her mother's craziness, and on how obviously it is damaging my daughter.  But unfortunately the custody evaluator I consulted agreed more with the lawyers that this was "not necessarily" a case in which he would recommend a change of custody (this after my daughter went to the police with homicidal/suicidal threats). 

In short, I don't know what to do, and I would appreciate any perspective from anyone who has experience with such a situation.

Right now, I am ticking off the days, weeks, and months, counting down until my daughter is 18 and can get out without months of legal warfare--MAYBE, if she is psychologically able.  But this does not feel sufficient to me.

Thank you

Countingdown

[Turkish]

While it's not good to alienate the other parent, she's in crisis. Have you told her,  point blank, "if you tell the T exactly what is going on,  things can change for the better and I will back you up 100%." What she tells a T should also be confidential, though though  is not entirely true with minors.

[kells76]

Hi countingdown, welcome to the boards. So sorry about how hard it's been for you and your D.

It sounds like your D is reaching out the best she can for help. She sounds pretty torn between wanting to get away from Mom but massive worry about what will happen if she does.

I wonder if in addition to what Turkish suggested (encourage D point blank to tell her therapist, with your support), you could also meet with the T on your own. Do you have any sense whether Mom has met with your D's therapist?

Maybe if you do meet with the T, we could help you walk through what you want to present without sounding disparaging or whatnot -- just how to best make your point to help your D.

Let us know how else we can help;

kells76

[countingdown]

Thank you for these replies, I appreciate your time and thought very much. 

I have met with four previous therapists, but not with her present one (she started seeing her about 3 weeks ago, after getting out of her latest IOP).  The first one "got it" about her mother within about three weeks, and when I met with her we had a pretty frank conversation.  She told me to "trust the process."  That was a year ago, and I've concluded that if my daughter won't talk then there is no process.  I have the impression that therapists usually understand that her mother is crazy pretty quickly.  (Why?--because the mother compulsively talks about herself and her own problems when she meets with the therapists.  We had a "family session" in May, three therapists ago; the mother could not shut up about her own trauma, to the point where my daughter got up and walked out.)  But my daughter has to give them something to work with, or they've got no way to start getting her internally free of the blackmail and the emotional violence. 

I have told my daughter since May that she has to talk to her therapists or they can't help her.  I told her point-blank about three days ago that I thought if she doesn't start talking to her therapists, she's not going to be OK.

My daughter can define very clearly what is going on with her mother--that she is not well and cannot take care of her (my daughter), that her mother is full of negative emotion from her own childhood that can be triggered at any time and spewed out at everyone around her, that her mother makes everyone around her miserable, that her mother "freaks out" regularly, that she (my daughter) is "tired of living with people who make me feel bad about myself" (her mother and the father of her half-sister), etc. etc. etc.  Her mother, bless her BPD heart, even bought her a book she was interested in, in July, titled "Toxic Parents," and my daughter identified her mother as a toxic parent. 

All that aside, I have a specific question: are there support groups where I can talk this through with other men in a similar situation?  How do I find them?  Because I am increasingly wondering at what point I am just going to be done with this, and just drop out of the picture.  All four therapists I have spoken to have told me that my daughter needs me, that I am her primary support person, that I should stay as involved as I possibly can, that I should be there for her, etc. etc.  But this is costing me an enormous amount of energy and unhappiness, and my daughter is just stuck, and two and a half more years like this feels not viable.  I am starting to fantasize about the possibility of telling my daughter that it's unfair to make me her ONLY support person, and that she has to talk to her therapist now because I'm out of gas.  I am seeing a therapist myself, and that is helpful, but I am not at all sure I am actually going to make it through the next 29 months (yes, I'm counting down) without more support.   

Thanks.  Sorry to gas on.  More drama this morning, feeling very frustrated.

Countingdown

[worriedStepmom]

If subpoena'd to court, what would the other therapists your daughter has seen, either in inpatient therapy or otherwise, say would be best for her?  To return to mom or go to you?  Do they really think that you getting custody would be worse for D than staying in her current situation?  If they are willing to testify that mom is a problem that is seriously negatively impacting D's mental health, and D has been in this much of a crisis, I have a hard time seeing how you wouldn't be successful getting temporary orders to take custody of her, regardless of her wishes.

Do you think it would be possible for you to go to one of your D's sessions with her and bluntly tell her there that you love her and you want to protect her, but you cannot do so if she will not be totally honest with the T?  That if she is honest, you can work to get her out of the situation, and work with her to envision what her new life could look like?  A child who has been stuck in depression for so long may be completely unable to visualize a future without all of the negativity.

Why did mom lose primary custody of the younger child?  Is there anything in that case that you could use to leverage a custody change yourself?

ETA:  I am so very sorry that your daughter is in so much pain.  I can't imagine being in your shoes and feeling so powerless.

[ForeverDad]

I wonder if in addition to what Turkish suggested (encourage D point blank to tell her therapist, with your support), you could also meet with the T on your own... .

Maybe if you do meet with the T, we could help you walk through what you want to present without sounding disparaging or whatnot -- just how to best make your point to help your D.

I agree.  How would you expect a therapist to know what has not been said?

When my then-separated spouse (and now ex) took our son to child counselors, she convinced them I was "likely to be a danger" to my son and others.  He was 3 years old.  Court didn't help by gifting her temporary custody and majority time — while she was facing a Threat of DV case in another court.  It took over a year for the agency to release his records, after a court order.  A few months later their daycare started letting me visit him while he was there, I'm sure our Custody Evaluator, a child psychologist, had something to do with that.  Because she had temp custody the agency followed ex's lead.

Once we had Shared Parenting, we parents alternated bringing our son to the sessions.  I always sat in for the first 5 minutes or so then stepped out for the rest of the session.

Yours is not the same situation of course, but my point is that sharing at least some information with the counselors is the right thing to do.  As kells76 wrote, do it in an informative and not bashing way.

Another thought, an impression many have is that you can't share information with a therapist, that there's privacy laws.  Well, that doesn't fully apply to minor children.  And that's regarding what the professional can disclose.  No law, so far as I'm aware, says you can't share information with the professional.  The professional may not want to share information back but your input at the right time can be crucial.

Another thought... .did the current T get records or summaries from the prior Ts?  That's another way the current T can gain background.

[countingdown]

Thanks again for these responses.

For the time being, I have told my daughter that I think she needs to talk to the therapist about what her real troubles are (for example the panic attack she had last weekend after yet another blow-up with her mother).  I told her I didn't think anything bad would happen to her or to her mother, and that I just can't be the only person she talks to about this stuff--I don't have the knowledge or expertise to be helpful.  Who knows, she might start talking.

I don't know whether the current therapist has seen records from any of her IOPs, or from earlier therapists.  I haven't had contact with her.  For the time being, I'm waiting to see whether my daughter talks to her therapist honestly . . . in which case I think there would be a much better context for me reaching out to the therapist.  In the meantime, I assume her mother is telling her that I have tried to alienate my daughter from her, which is her latest interpretation of my daughter saying she wants to leave. I don't think she will come across as very believable . . . but obviously don't want to take any legal action until I know.

I am kind of permanently confused about whether I am likely to get Ellie out against her own say-so.  Five different lawyers have told me I am not likely to win if my 15.5 year old daughter says she wants to stay, and reading through various threads on this site, and in other places on the Internet, that's the impression I get.  (for example topic=331340.0) Yet I do believe any of the therapists she has seen would testify that her mother is harming her.

Thank you for the book references.  There are 2 in this list I do not know.

Thanks
Countingdown

[countingdown]

Sorry, there was a list of recommended books here earlier, I rambled off reading other threads, when I came back to write down titles I didn't see it anymore?

Thanks

Countingdown