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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: How to support yourself when they don't support you  (Read 547 times)
WitzEndWife
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« on: January 16, 2019, 12:40:59 PM »

Yesterday, I received some shockingly bad feedback at work, and I was processing it all evening, not really talking much, writing in my journal about it. I was feeling pretty horrible. I contemplated just not telling uBPDh because I knew he might dismiss it or say "I told you so," as he'd advised me not to do what I got in trouble for doing. I was in "beat myself up" mode and definitely did not need more of that.

In a moment of vulnerability, just before bed, I let it out. And, of course, just as predicted, he launched into "I told you sos" and then berating me for even telling him about it, saying I was "gossiping about myself" and that I should not be telling him about work things. Of course, this launched me into sobbing, whereupon he told me he didn't feel sorry for me and that it was "stupid" for me to feel emotional about it. He said I was just "filling a seat" at someone else's company, so I shouldn't get so emotionally invested in it.

I just kept sobbing. Then, he felt bad and tried to be a little nice and rub my back. However, the damage was done. I went from feeling low to feeling worse than low. I sobbed for a good hour, and when I woke up, my face was till puffy from crying. I'm horribly depressed today, even though I'm trying to put on a good face at work.

I have talked to my mom and my best friend since all of this, and they have definitely helped, but how do I even deal with someone who can't help himself from kicking me when I'm down?
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 04:23:45 PM »


I'm so sorry that happened.  Bad enough to get the icky review at work... .what he did was horrible.

Has he ever been able to support you when you need it?  10% of the time?  20% of the time?

Personally I do a lot of walking and working out... that seems to be a good outlet for me.

Please be kind to yourself...

Best

FF
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 05:08:20 PM »

Hi WEW,
It's really tough when our partner can't be there to support us when we need it, and then just makes things worse.   

What do you do? Embargo information that has a big impact? You expect a partner to have your back and it hurts doubly when this isn't the case.

Are you considering talking with him after your emotions are once again at baseline?

Cat
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
WitzEndWife
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 10:29:55 AM »

I'm guessing that I was overwhelming him at that moment, or that he had other worries that I was unwittingly exacerbating. He has been able to be supportive in the past. It's just hit or miss. Sometimes he is awesome and will do everything he can to make me feel better. Other times, he can be almost shockingly cruel.

I do expect support from my spouse, so maybe I will talk to him today about it, depending on whether he's in a receptive mood. I don't feel like slogging through a battle on this. Maybe just approaching it as: this is what I need, what's the best way to approach you with my problems so that I get support from you instead of criticism?

I'm feeling so drained this week. I sure hope I can get some healing self care in this weekend.
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 10:55:24 AM »


Listen... .you are facing some big life decisions and you need answers from him.

So... .ask him the questions that matter.

"Hey... .I appreciate your expressions of sorrow for how you spoke to me yesterday.  Are you willing to learn how to better support me when I reach out for help?"

Then... .listen.  Don't argue about.  In fact, likely better to give it time. 

Don't explain what you need or any of that.  "Are you willing... .?"

Are you feeling better today?

FF
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 06:24:15 PM »

WEW, pwBPD have problems with empathy and it's clear your H was showing you a lack of it.  You needed commiseration and that was something your H was unable to give.

I have been dealing with my own dysfunctional FOO in the matter of addictions (drugs and alcohol with siblings.)  The family business might have to reorganise, meaning some employees will get pay reductions or be laid off.  I was really feeling a heavy heart and wanted to vent to my H--to have a shoulder to cry on.  (H has always been jealous of my family business.  His own FOO had a uNPD F who spend the family income of his own pastimes and sporting goods while his wife and children lived in pove rty; my elderly FIL now lives without a penny saved away and has no hesitation to hold open his hand for money from H.  BTW, H was not the favored son; his B is a drug addict and barely employed.

Rather than listening to me with empathy, he said in an irritated tone, "You have done nothing but b*tch for the last 30 minutes, and I am sick of it.  Blah blah blah.  Can you knock it off?"

I am also "married but emotionally single" now and can see this is not about me, but about my H's inability to give anyone empathy--except his adult children.    
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WitzEndWife
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2019, 09:52:38 AM »

I'm definitely feeling better today, FF, thanks for asking.

Is it weird to think that BPDs almost take venting as an attack on them? I feel like uBPDh gets offended when I'm upset about anything, and that's why he sometimes lashes out like that. Could that be true of your H, AskingWhy? Or maybe it just makes them panicked and fearful because you're supposed to be the stable one. I haven't figured that out.

But I think asking if he's willing is probably the best way to try to work through it. Ugh, I hate all of the emotional labor we have to do on top of everyday life.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2019, 11:09:59 AM »


But I think asking if he's willing is probably the best way to try to work through it. Ugh, I hate all of the emotional labor we have to do on top of everyday life.

I'm going to disagree... .

If he goes off to BPDland... .let him go.  If he stays in your land... work through stuff.

If he comes back from BPDland... work through it.

Probably best to do ONE... .and only ONE hint or nudge to let him know that you are staying in your land... .and you wish he would stay.  There are various ways you can do this.

Here is a real life example from my relationship... .yesterday.  As you can see... I tried to get her to think through the wisdom of accusing me... .vice... .I don't know... .saying thank you.

For whatever reason she was invested in staying in BPDland.  I went on with my day and my son went to school.

Sometimes it's hard to respect someone else's decision... .but I had to realize this was hers to make.  Whatever... .

OBTW...   as you can see I kinda warned her twice... instead of the once I advise.  I wish I had only given one warning.  I had no idea that BPD would show up... .so I wasn't on the top of my game... .sigh.

FF

A similar thing happened to me yesterday.  The "reality" was just too different.

My wife texted me to ask if I minded have S10 pulled from school to attend a family event.

I said it was fine and gave her a heads up that I would want to talk to my son with my wife later, to make sure he had a clear understanding of why we did this.

So... .my wife started claiming I had a problem with her and obviously hated her parents because I never do things for them and go along with things.

(in my mind) Uhh... .hmm... .you asked... I said yes... .so I wasn't sure what else I could have done to be supportive.

My response was a bit interesting as I reflect on it.  I asked her to reflect on the wisdom of accusing me of hating her parents... especially given that I said yes.

She asked my forgiveness and then shared her "opinion" that I hated her parents (you can't make this stuff up)

I gave her the option of being thankful for me saying yes or sending S10 to school.

She choose sending S10 to school.

I went on about my business. 

She seemed normal in the evening.  Weird.

FF
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2019, 01:08:34 PM »

Is it weird to think that BPDs almost take venting as an attack on them? I feel like uBPDh gets offended when I'm upset about anything, and that's why he sometimes lashes out like that.

BINGO  

Yes, exactly. I've experienced the same, WEW. It doesn't take much for my husband to jump to conclusions that if I'm upset about something that it's his fault. It's a very self-focused thing to think that he is responsible for an animal's autoimmune disorder, the weather, national politics, my sore shoulder... .and on and on... .

It's almost like he feels that he is the only one who is allowed to be upset and I'm impinging upon his turf.

Perhaps this relates to your second point, WEW.

maybe it just makes them panicked and fearful because you're supposed to be the stable one.
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2019, 07:33:00 PM »


Could that be true of your H, AskingWhy? Or maybe it just makes them panicked and fearful because you're supposed to be the stable one. I haven't figured that out.


WEW, I don't think they become irritated due to fear that we are the stable ones and caretakers per se.

I think it's that we are not meeting their needs at the moment, which is an NPD aspect of BPD.  It's my understanding that, at various times, BPDs exhibit aspects of other personality disorders.  For instance, they can be at one time APD; then, maybe an hour later or the next day seem PPD.

In the case of my H fdysregulating, it's certainly the NPD showing.  I was not meeting his immediate needs and he was angry, and as a result being verbally abusive and making the usual withholding of affection in the form of di vorce threats.

I was once at the point where you are--that your uBPD H has the ability to make you cry through his callous actions.  My last, long cry--where my whole being ached from his abuse--was way back in 2012.  I was ill and H raged at me (again, because I was of no use to him.)  After that, I resolved never to give that much power to a person again.  Now, H's anger and threats don't hurt me to the quick. I understand my H is a horribly unhappy man, and that is not my fault.  I no longer accept blame when he throws his projection at me for his childhood poverty and emotional neglect and the cheating of his X W, who was his childhood sweetheart.

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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 11:10:26 AM »

Hi WEW,
I hope you had a pleasant weekend and feel refreshed and renewed. How are you doing today?

Cat
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2019, 12:25:19 PM »

Hi Cat, I'm doing better this week. H had some rages this weekend, but I managed to set my boundaries and keep my cool. I think I just have to reset my expectations and work to support myself and manage my stress and emotions as best as possible. I wasn't able to have my therapy session last week, so it was especially tough. I'm having my next one in a few minutes, so that will be tremendous. I can already tell I have a lot to "puke" out onto her, but that it will be a big relief.

To the point about them getting enraged when the stability is gone or not being able to separate my irritation at something from being irritated at them, I see that in little ways. Like, the other day, he'd let the dog out of the bedroom (we keep one dog up there when we're not home bc the dogs have had problems getting along in the past). When I went up there, I discovered that the dog had pooped in the bedroom (not sure if he'd intentionally left it there for me to find and clean up, or whether he'd just missed it because it was dark), I groaned and called downstairs, "The dog pooped in the bedroom." He raged back, "Well CLEAN IT UP, THEN!" instead of commiserating.

I sense that he saw that as me complaining about him, instead of at the situation.

Anyway, more later, as I'm about to have a loong talk with the T.
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2019, 12:46:35 PM »

Glad you're doing better, WEW.    Great that you were able to keep your cool while he raged. Good that you can get some support today with your T.

Yeah, I bet he took it personally that the dog pooped and who knows, maybe he left it for you to deal with or maybe he was unaware. My husband does this sort of thing too--if he notices I'm upset about something, nearly the first words out of his mouth are "What have I done wrong now?" I attribute that to his intensely narcissistic father criticizing him for EVERYTHING!

Do you know much about your husband's FOO?

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2019, 02:35:07 PM »

From what I gather, uBPDh dealt with a TON of criticism from both his mother and biological father, and stepfather. His M was abused and is quick to criticism, but is a loving person (just damaged). His Bio F was an abusive monster, physically and emotionally. His stepdad was verbally abusive and called him homophobic slurs for reading GQ. Super healthy upbringing, of course. So, logically, I can see why he is quick to criticize himself and also others. He sometimes resorts to these, "I don't know WHY you would do that" lectures when I make a dumb mistake.

Once, I tried to explain to him that people make mistakes, and it's okay, and that my family accepted mistakes, learned from them, and moved on, but not every family is like that. For a time, he seemed to be receptive to that, and was more gentle around mistakes, but sometimes the nasty, blaming, drilling voice comes in and it's terrible. It makes me sad that people could treat a child that way, especially such a sensitive, bright child. He could have been such a force for good in the world, and instead he is stuck battling these demons. Horrible.
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2019, 03:19:30 PM »

It is sad how critical parents can implant that tendency to be critical of self and others. It seems like you're becoming more immune to hearing things like that from him.    Still not fun and as formflier often mentions, when that happens, you can take your ears elsewhere.
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 07:45:27 PM »

Yeah, I'm definitely getting more mindful and can at least recognize it when I start to get heated that he's pushing my buttons. The other day, he kept calling me a moron because I didn't see eye to eye with him on something. Instead of defending, I said, "Huh, do you honestly think that?" It caught him off guard. He said, "Uh, well, no, but you're acting like it." I didn't push further, and then later told him it was unacceptable and that it made me depressed when he called me names like that. He said he was sorry. Of course he did it a couple more times that day, so I'm not sure he learned anything. At least it doesn't hurt me as much as it used to.
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2019, 09:47:56 PM »

Yeah, I'm definitely getting more mindful and can at least recognize it when I start to get heated that he's pushing my buttons. The other day, he kept calling me a moron because I didn't see eye to eye with him on something. Instead of defending, I said, "Huh, do you honestly think that?" It caught him off guard. He said, "Uh, well, no, but you're acting like it." I didn't push further, and then later told him it was unacceptable and that it made me depressed when he called me names like that. He said he was sorry. Of course he did it a couple more times that day, so I'm not sure he learned anything. At least it doesn't hurt me as much as it used to.

WEW, knowing the FOO is a huge help in getting a look at the whole picture.  Like yours, my H is a name caller, and used to (and still, when he dysregulates) call me b%tch, c*nt, and a whole list of other insults.  H backed off when I actually owned those words and used them myself. It caught his off guard.

My FIL is most likely in the BPD or NPD spectrum.  My uBPD H's B was preferred over him when both were children.  I believe he has the "not good enough syndrome" one sees in BPD men.  H spent all of his adult life trying to be a success in his career (he is) and then showing his parents his accomplishments.  FIL is elderly now, and really has nothing to show for his life, living in poverty.  He still has a high opinion of himself.  

My H has a lot of trouble accepting the reality of his divorce from his uNPD X W, and losing custody of the children, and his abuse at the hands of his children.  He kicks himself for that.  As a result, each time he saw his children, he was the Disney dad, spoiling all of them rotten with every toy imaginable.  They grew to have a sense of entitlement, and emotionally blackmailed their F to get anything they wished.  Inside, I know he feels like the biggest coward--which he was.  I was really embarassed for him to have two teen girls threaten not to ever see him again, or a teen boy raise a fist to his father undisciplined.

My H very, very rarely admits he did or said anything wrong.  He always blames me for his words and actions.

Like you, I was once devastated when my H dysregulated, raged and called me names.  He'd sleep on the couch and make divorce threats.  I would be broken down in tears.  Now I look at it as the BPD talking.

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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2019, 02:54:39 PM »

Hi WitsEndWife,
How are things? I hope your stress level at work and home has minimized and that your husband is regulating his emotions better.

Cat
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2019, 10:36:38 PM »

I'm definitely feeling better today, FF, thanks for asking.

Is it weird to think that BPDs almost take venting as an attack on them? I feel like uBPDh gets offended when I'm upset about anything, and that's why he sometimes lashes out like that. Could that be true of your H, AskingWhy? Or maybe it just makes them panicked and fearful because you're supposed to be the stable one. I haven't figured that out.

But I think asking if he's willing is probably the best way to try to work through it. Ugh, I hate all of the emotional labor we have to do on top of everyday life.

I just realized or had an "ah ha moment" that maybe they take it this way because complaining about others makes them identify with the other people and so they see us as critiquing them because they go into abandonment wounds.  So any criticism of someone else might mean we'll do it to them.  They miss the social cues of a partner complaining about another means that person is different.  They start identifying.  In fact my gf has started acting like the people who have hurt me in the stories that I tell her.  I've been careful not to share too much about my ex's but about job stress I let it all out.  Now i'm bummed because I have to filter these stories out and not be able to tell my partner. So much for emotional intimacy
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