Part 3: My experience here and the broadening picture of my RS.

[Sandb2015]

This thread is a continuation of  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336022.new#new

I'm reading a lot on codependency.  That was me in this rs.

Yucky stuff...she did as I said before, have the guts to tell me and at that point, I admitted it as I admit to myself now.

Can we laugh a little     ...was she trying to find out what was wrong with me as I was trying to figure out what was wrong with her?

Unlikely, but I do give her credit for thinking and knowing there were issues.

My codependency really came to it's most damaging in my life in this rs, I can say I've never been abused before in any rs and I've mostly had long term rs. I didn't feel about anyone what I felt with my current and I knew I was limiting myself emotionally in past rs, not this one, I was striving for it while not recognizing my codependent issues that came up slowly and terribly.

I am still texting...it makes me feel a little better and I want her to know I'm still thinking of her even if it may never matter, I'm ok with that so sending them is ok also.

I know there is a chance of something good and prepared for the bad also, now or later.

I also know she has had times of reflection where she knows something is wrong with her, she admitted, possibly because she has had the past short term relationships that end badly and she looked into "some" of her issues (I wish I found bpdfamily at that time), it is what it is, no guilt or frustration there.  Obviously, she didn't stay looking at herself too much, I was an easier target as she was to me.

I see a chance for her and us.  If not, I'd like her to have a chance for herself as I am giving myself one now.

[babyducks]

how are you today Sandb2015?

I see a chance for her and us. 

Here is what I know about this from my own experience.    It takes a great deal of emotional strength to be in a relationship with some one on this spectrum.   a great deal of emotional strength.

I use Morgan Freeman's definition of emotional strength.   He said this:

Self control is strength.    Calmness is mastery.   You have to get to the point where your mood doesn't shift based on the insignificant acts of some one else.    Don't allow others to control the direction of your life.     Don't allow your emotions to over power your intelligence.

What kinds of emotional strength could you bring to this relationship, knowing what you know now?

[Sandb2015]

babyducks,

The sensitivity to her words are something I can't internalize.  I have to remove my own feelings that I create as a result of her words and action.

Really stepping back and having my own emotional strength in a separate way.

I want to validate her real feelings while not internalizing them, acknowledging them without victimizing myself to them.

This morning she blocked me.  I knew it was coming, I won't think about it too much.  It's what she wanted/needed to do.  Not the end of the world as I used to feel, I'm shaky and dealing with it, a little desperation, I won't overreact.

Not overreacting is part of the emotional strength I need and have been working on.

My first impulse was to leave work, skip work which is a priority and run to her, I'm dealing well with this for now.  That overreaction kinda created the cycle of me running because of her action, I want to create the boundary that her really pulling away won't turn into my very strong, maybe overwhelming pull, sometimes with favorable consequences, sometimes not.

[formflier]

That was a really thoughtful response.  Lots to build on there.

Let's examine the "blocking" decision.

How long has it been since she communicated with you?  In that time, how many communications did you send her on the medium that she just blocked you on?  (what was blocked?)

Clarity:  If you said something and she responded...put that in the category of her communicating.  What I'm trying to get at is how many unanswered messages you sent her.

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier,

From 4/17 today.  Nothing heavy, not asking questions, about 2 or 3 a day consisting of "Good morning, I wish you a good day", "have a good night, sleep well", "I love you, thinking of you, I miss you".  Some thoughtful quotes, some TED Talk from youtube.  This morning I sent her favorite TT, ON LOVE-Alain de Botton and sent a text after that was blocked.

I was teetering on my emotions last night and blocked her email only after reading through some old ones, I don't think she had a way of knowing.

I had not blocked calls or texts and we don't use other social media together.

We have, specifically, me, I've never not called her or tried to call her job or show up for this period of time and I never let this amount of time pass...I was keeping a healthy distance and respecting her not wanting to see me...she usually expected a run response from me before, not this time.

[formflier]

Does she normally respond to what you send her?

In the last few days how many message on each day has she responded to in any fashion.  How many messages each day has she not responded to.

Do I understand correctly that she has not responded since 4/17.  Each day since then you have sent 2 or 3 per day and not gotten any sort of response?

If accurate...can you answer the question about how many per day for several days prior to 4/17. 

Trying to get the vibe that leads to a blockage.

FF

[Sandb2015]

FF,

Most of the time she would send something, angry response when angry, nice when mood is stable.  Sending texts during turbulent times consisted of me sending many sometimes and a few others, nothing other than straight communication, not too many blind or empty texts, usually they warranted a response or were worded as if a response was wanted.  I have been sending one way texts since 4/17, nothing requiring a response, no questions.  I was treading lightly as to not force some response,  I was hoping for one, but not expecting one.

There has been zero communication other than me sending 2 or 3 texts a day since 4/17 with no response. I thought of calling her, but I knew that time of reaching out was my own boundary I was developing and I wanted to slow down the push/pull while thinking of healthy ways to cope (get stronger).

We always managed to keep in contact before except for the extreme few days that things were "hot", not more than a few days and usually I was blocked at that time. 

[formflier]

OK...2 or 3 per day since 4/17 with no response whatsoever is a lot.  I'm not surprised that led to a blockage.

Essentially what she was "saying" to you is that she didn't want to communicate.  (pause here...do you see that?  )  I get it she didn't explain why...but there is a basic message that it appears you missed.

So...oddly enough, when you thought you WERE NOT IGNORING HER...she likely felt as though you WERE IGNORING HER by continuing to communicate. 

Said another way...she believed she was "saying to you" don't do that and then you "kept doing that".

Can you see how she felt ignored or her feelings cast aside?

FF

[Sandb2015]

Yes .

I still have the plans to go to the wedding provided she’s alone there for a slow dance only.  If she shows any sign of wanting me to go, I will.leave immediately.

[formflier]

What would "signs of wanting you to leave" look like?

How long until the wedding?

Do you have an invitation to the wedding?

Remind me again who is getting married.  The relationship to you?  The relationship of the people getting married to your pwBPD?

I have some thoughts about "wedding strategy"...but I want to wait until I get answers to the above.

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

I sent 2 emails...

1) I know this is so difficult B. You don't need to block me.

2) I've been giving you space B, I want to see you, I want to speak with you.

Sometime after that...I'm unblocked, I texted,  "thank you".

No communication though, I may stop by her job tonight very briefly.

[formflier]

I sent 2 emails...

1) I know this is so difficult B. You don't need to block me.

2) I've been giving you space B, I want to see you, I want to speak with you.

Sometime after that...I'm unblocked, I texted,  "thank you".

No communication though, I may stop by her job tonight very briefly.

Hey...please don't stop by.  Please don't take being unblocked as progress or indication that what you did is a good thing.

Have you been giving her space?  Really?  Can you see the point of view that you are "crowding" her?

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier,

Any resistance to me being there when I approach is enough, a hello, goodbye, no resistance from me whatsoever.

The person is a master that's close to her and we all had camaraderie withing the business and it's like family.

I was invited with her and wouldn't show without her anyway.  I'm not entitled to be there without her.

Her master agreed to help facilitate this "wedding stratagem", he is rooting for me along with the hard advice I get here with continuing this rs and what I need to do for myself apart from her.

I would fit in with the wedding as I've been a member/extended member of the "group" for years and they like me and have always given their opinion of our rs.  Only one person knows that we "are broken", her master.  Under the circumstances, they would expect to see me there anyway.

A lot can happen between now and then, anything really.

[Sandb2015]

Yes, maybe crowding her.

A "why" question, $64,000 question to be exact...why unblock me?

[Sandb2015]

How about an actual text with a question?

Something along the lines of I'd like to see you or can I see you tonight?

Just simple, if no, I will just respond with an "ok".

[babyducks]

Yes, maybe crowding her.

You want to be smart about this Sandb2015.     and I know you can be.

you sent her about 25 texts.     they might have 'seemed' simple to you but I rather doubt they were to her.   she didn't reply.  you crowded her,  over pursued and she responded by blocking.

when you indicated you are giving her space or want to give her space she relaxed and unblocked.    that's a pretty clear message.     give her space and she will leave the line of communication open.

don't over react.    don't over pursue.    you said you want to give her space.   do what you said you would.    give her space.

[Sandb2015]

babyducks, formflier,

Thank you for your hearts and extension of your experience.

Tonight I was given a gift...a wonderful gift I won’t know it’s worth for a little while, hopefully not too long.

10 days of my caring and thoughtful reaching out, tiptoeing around her “feelings”. My care for her wellbeing.

Almost 4 years of acceptance, forgiveness and giving love to a person it was wasted on because no learning took place in the end, she’ll never be me and the day may come that I was the only one to assume the role of a caretaker for someone so damaged, she may regret. Doesn’t matter, it’s about me now.

Today, blocked, unblocked and blocked again. I just reached out strongly and called her job to see if we could just eat something together after work (that’s when I found out she blocked me).  I called her job and the girl explained she was “traveling”?

I texted her sister to see if she’s ok, she doesn’t miss work and I thought maybe something was wrong...

Anyway. I drove passed her boyfriends house near me as a compulsion and low and behold, that guilty feeling woman that confessed to me the mistake she made when she wanted to reconcile was there...the liar all along was where she chose to be.

I texted her sister and let her know...no surprise and I let her sister know after endless sorries, it not a reflection on you and your loving family and she responded with knowing I deserve so much better for my life.

I sent an email to B , not mean, just straight forward ( I will post tomorrow) that I know all I need to know now about her and goodbye.

I won a prize tonight...it’s good, it’s great and the prize will be fully realized as the grieving and healing reach it’s mark.

I am blessed with resilience and with that I find strength.

Tonight I said goodbye to my love and hello to me. No regrets and I’m free.

I will feel like crap, my imagination of her and remembering good times and the physical intimacy will linger for a period of time...

From reality to nightmare to imagination to learned experience...this is life.

The greatest gift of truth came in the most painful way..I’m grateful.

[Sandb2015]

Btw, Xanax, a six pack and 2 shots of JD don’t quiet the freedom of trauma caused by the loving of a NPD/BPD or BPD/NPD...same damage to US.  They will never know., it’s about us, not them, sorry.

Tonight I will toss and turn, I will relive being on the corner of Warren St and West St on 9/11, the horror. I will relive lying in bed with my most beautiful stepfather as he took his last breath. I will relive my custody battle in a skewed system where fathers lose. I will relive the imagined image of my son I don’t see take his first happy wonderous steps. I’ll sleep on the floor by my mothers deathbed dreaming for mercy for a naive and innocent woman. I’ll dream of that same mercy for my sister that never had a chance in life and now waits for death from progressive MS.

Tonight I will let my dreams go of a happy life with someone that would shrug at my sorrow and laugh at my tears. I will have mercy and will accept mercy granted today!

One life, I’m reborn with greater potential TODAY!

The compassion we give and take here on BPD family is for us, just us, all of the ones that truly suffer and have the hearts to persevere...thank you.

[formflier]

How do you feel this morning?

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

Sorry Sandb2015.

Just two words.

Self Care.

Self Care.

Self Care.

Take care of yourself.     Hydrate.   With Water.   Be Gentle with yourself.    Don't make any big life changing decisions in the next week or so.

[Sandb2015]

formflier and babyducks,

Thank you.

I feel down which is expected.  I was so trusting, I wanted to.

I woke up playing the mental video back now that I know of the deceit going back to the beginning.. For a while I did think I contributed to most of the problems, that’s how she wanted it. That took intentional and determined work while keeping the attention away from herself while she weaved her web. More lies than truth in retrospect.

I am going back and searching the truth and all the little and big things are popping up.which sting.

I will ruminate, it’s natural.

At least I won’t be thinking about “us” and later... Like a large scale magic show where the curtain falls to reveal the truth of the mystifying and elaborate illusion that went on for 4 years. Our lives and family were intertwined as much as could be. My goodness strived to make it. I was responsible for bringing her family together where nobody thought possible and her family was grateful but that goodness conflicted deeply with her mental illness. I will miss that. Her sister wants to keep in touch and that is healthy as we already made a deal not to discuss her.

I brought love and caring to her and her son.  He was slowly gravitating towards the brighter side and she resented it, jealous of how her family and son were seeing the light from me. She couldn’t change her family’s image of me so she cut them. She could however polarize her son and me, it wasn’t part of her plan to actually have the closeness and togetherness that she welcomed and I gave. Her son will end up treating people the way his mom did and that’s sad. Her family will always see her as a person to fear.

I can see her smile ( her invisible fangs ) in my imagination with this guy and the next, I also see her crawled up in a ball in bed shut down because of the misery she creates.

I remember her dead eyed expressionless face now clearly. I will think of her miserable future always looking to fill her bottomless hole of entitlement, wants and desires.

I am a good hearted, thoughtful, considerate, conscientious, generous (monetarily and emotionally) man that probably lost some of my shine permanently. Trusting and giving myself to another is my damage now.

I’ll be stronger, more in tune to others and myself, I’m learning like others here that we learned something we should have never had to.

I can feel the depth of this wound where some of my best qualities will not be available again.

I will love again, I’ll love myself and will be loved, just without the shine I had tarnished by mental illness and B.

I will eat, sleep, try to get my sense of humor back, drink water and find some peace.

I’ve been writing this underneath a bridge ironically named the Hell’s Gate Bridge before work. I will remember this day as I had the opportunity to leave hell crawling and beaten, but I’m out.

[formflier]

I will ruminate, it’s natural.
 

Rumination and self care are at odds with each other.  There is a place where healthy self reflection on a situation is good for you.  It's highly unlikely you are in a place where any rumination/self reflection will in anyway help you. 

What can you do when you start ruminating, in hopes to shift you thinking to something else.

You need to find yourself some space.

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

formflier,

I do need some space, I'm at work and calmer than I thought.  I have this very slight sense of relief that this madness is over.  There are of course the after thoughts of the whole rs.  

The lies, thinking about the truth, I'm letting those go, but I feel the need to address the ones that come up, painful but they are swept away.

With the slight relief of not having to go back to the painful place come the feeling that seeing her car at her bf's home gives me mixed reactions.

I am NC now in every way, even the receptionist at my job has instructions about her calling.

The mixed reactions are thinking she'll be reaching out to me somehow after her rs falls apart.  She claimed just a few weeks ago that it's over with him and we are right, feels right, couldn't be with the guy because she loves me, it sounded reasonable and I loved and forgived what happened.  She lied.  She lied about so many things, backtracking is giving me a headache because I need just some closure on those things, not words from her anymore.  I have to let go of the things I can't figure out, never will and I don't care much.

I am NC because I just felt so lied to and knew that if I exposed myself again and it would probably happen, I would be in the same situation (if she wanted me, I might go). If I left the channel open, she would take the opportunity to do what she does and try to hurt me further after she was found out...her guilt/shame turns to cruelty onto me.

I am having some slight guilty feelings about it because I want to believe the LIE TO MYSELF that there will be a time she actually has understood what we are and how her mental illness has gotten in the way of us...fantasy.

I sent her a text a block away from her bf's house before blocking her last night:



As the weather gets warmer, I can’t help looking at couples holding hands, all types, all ages. I think about us and why we aren’t that, it’s not my lack of caring or love for you or my want to be better, myself and together. I am better now, getting better every day. My situation will get better also.


My B, the only love of my life, my only true love. No other, never was, never will be. The loss I feel is past words. I decided to give you my life until the end and would love you long after I die. I don’t think you will ever have someone love, accept and care about you as I do and I hope you don’t wake up someday realizing what you lost.

I’m not giving up, I’m not moving on, I just know you didn’t love me and  never will. You don’t have any love inside.

B my love, I didn’t need much from you. The little I did need, you chose not to give. I ran to you over and over with faith and hope for a whole life together, I ran to nothing.

I wish you luck “selling yourself”. Enjoy the “game”. I feel sad for your life now. We know what your life will be.

I don’t need a response, I won’t read anything anyway.

Goodbye B.

A little part of me feels regret that she won't have a chance to defend herself (illusion on my part) and the other illusion is thinking this would have has some effect on her.  

This thing with the new guy won't last and I'm pretty sure he'll be messed up after especially since it's money based.  I could imagine he has been recycled at least once since our 5 or 6 days together during a "reconciliation".

I have to keep seeing the truth of who/what she is and what will become of her later, same B as before during and after.  I have shaken quickly the idea that there is a "happily ever after" for her...AND DEFINITELY NOT US.

I do have very slight fantastical ideas that we will reunite and things will be great, they come and go.

I know she made me seem like some bad, crazy loser to this new guy, looking back, that's what she said about the very few bfs she had before she told me about, some called her a crazy bitch and she had a feeling of pride when describing that (odd but didn't really dig, I was in love already)...That was in the beginning and I kept saying to myself, I'm not that type to say that to any woman...   .

I am digging into the times I forgot that I said to myself or wrote it down, "get out S, she doesn't love you", "run", "remember how terrible this is".  That was about 2 years ago and I kept forgetting and hoped even more.  The last year was especially tumultuous, and it was chaos and abuse weekly and I kept turning the other cheek while she ridiculed my shaking (stress or truame)or my weight loss, my crying.  I want to hold on to these memories ever so lightly for the future.

My thoughts:

*I don't have guilt at all, I was wonderful and she got my personal best so far.
*I still have fear that she will pop up somehow (I doubt it), my NC definitely is helping her concentrate on the new guy whatever "stage" they're/she's in...
*The day may come that because I am so forgiving, that I will forget all of this and may reach out, she may at some later date and I will only remember the love, hopes and dreams.
*Hear that her life is perfect from her sister or other person...that wouldn't be true.
*Hear from her sister or another that she wants me back...unlikely anytime soon.

I will keep in touch with some of her friends and family, they were important to me without her, separate from her.  That is not unhealthy and we won't discuss her.

Debatable or not...I know she had significant NPD and BPD traits, sometimes more NPD and as I look into this closer, she fits the bill to a "t" with so many stories here. I do love her still, she's no longer mine and never will be, any hope or dreams are dissipating because I focus on our imaginary future together and it's absolute misery.

My shakes will subside over time and the damage will also mostly.

I rehearsed leaving before, I've flirted with the idea in the past and I stayed because I believed the impossible.  This is the real thing this time and I have to go back to the thoughts I had when I toyed with the idea.

As I've done some much studying on BPD/NPD, cluster B.  It doesn't make any of this better.  I DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR HER, I DON'T TAKE MY SITUATION AND FOCUS ON HER'S...this is a time for compassion for myself, not her.  She is a person that hurt me terribly, regardless of her mental illness, they are not separate entities.

Today I read the website NICOLA METHOD and it helps spell things out without bias I feel, just the facts in layman's terms I can relate to.

I will attend a cluster B survivors meeting tonight and I had to pass a screening to make sure I belong, they said I do.   .

All the stories I read her and I always had a very high sense of denial, "that isn't my rs, no way".  Yes it was, just as bad a any I've read.

I don't feel the attachment that kept me going, I try to let the love go like a helium balloon at the park as though it's gone forever and that has some relief (strange and pain).



I'd like some opinions about my though process if possible and any opinions about going NC please.

Does anyone think I overreacted?

I need the straight talk, I can take it.

Thanks.

[babyducks]

A little part of me feels regret that she won't have a chance to defend herself (illusion on my part) and the other illusion is thinking this would have has some effect on her.  

Once Removed kindly put up a thread on the detaching board that I think is a good place to start with the illusions.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336103.0

what I see relating is this part:

The most constructive and enduring strategy for lessening or eliminating negative effects of the self-absorbed person on you is to develop a stronger and more resilient self... .Adopting constructive strategies is more rewarding in the long run.

As the thread says it's normal to develop fantasies of revenge, recognition, and repair that are not realistic.   You want to be gently and calmly aware of them.   Recognize it's going to happen but nothing you want to pursue.   Not something you want to advocate for.     

Upstream FF talked about avoiding ruminations.    Let's unpack that.    there is a school of thought that strongly suggests that ruminations serve to embed the negative memories the same way that fantasy serves to reinforce the negative feelings.   what's that mean?    ruminating, replaying conversations,   reliving events drives them deeper into the memory banks and, if they are painful memories, deepens the wound.    make sense?     is it possible to turn off ruminations and fantasies like a switch?   oh no, of course not.   you want to look for self talk, those stories we tell ourselves, that is calmer, less emotionally intense.

a thought pops into your head.   something like 'this is the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire life'.    you have a path to choose about which way to take that thought.     you can go down the road of  she said this horrible thing to me  she did that painful thing  she called me this name.  etc etc etc.    that's a negative thought loop.    keep going down that path and eventually you end up in front of a pity camp fire making s'mores and feeling miserable.

I'm not saying don't recognize how difficult or traumatic this experience has been.   I am saying don't make the campfire.     sounds simple.    it's very hard.   took me about 2 years to walk away from that campfire.   you want to look for constructive strategies.   things that fit into the pattern of 'right now I have had this experience.   I am going to work through it.    it's going to take effort and time but it's going to be okay.

I'd like some opinions about my though process if possible and any opinions about going NC please.

everyone has opinions about NC.   here's mine.     NC can be a tool to allow over heated emotions to cool.   it puts some distance between two volatile people.    it's not the holy grail.    it doesn't create healing.    it buys some time to find a way to 'release with grace' (the other phrase we use around here)   it can be a double edged sword.    NC can become a prison.   I will never ever see this person again.  I will never ever talk to this person again.  and then it's still about this other self absorbed person.    the goal should be if I see this person again I will be unaffected.    if this person speaks to me again I will have the skills, tools, serenity to cope.

like ruminations, NC can tip over into 'I am so rigidly holding this person away from me, I am handcuffing myself to a dialogue that reinforces the pain.'

what do you think?

[formflier]

What are some constructive strategies and tactics that you know work for you?  Things that help ruminations go down or eliminate them?

What are some constructive strategies and tactics you have tried and failed to help?  Might be informative to  try and understand why.

What are some constructive strategies and tactics you have heard of but haven't tried yet, but you kinda think perhaps they may help.

For me it's helpful to do something like going for a vigorous walk, 30 minute swim or some other activity like that.  I find that I ruminate like mad for the first 10 minutes of the swim and then other thoughts start filling my mind.  It's fascinating how reliably it works.  At the end of the swim I have a completely different "view" of the world.

I used to live in a house that was on a three mile "loop" that people used to walk on a lot.  Same thing there, first mile I really ruminated and then by the end of the loop it got better.

I also find that regular exercise keeps things generally better, but ruminations would still come up.  So even then, I need something to do that helps distract/refocus.

Failures:  I would have though that reading would be a great distraction.  I find I read a couple paragraphs and then I'm replaying the negative thing in my head.   I do like to read, it's just not a good refocusing strategy.  For me anyway.

Best,

FF

[Sandb2015]

babyducks,[[/b]

Thank you.

The weather isn't so good and I will definitely walk when it's better...that sounds good.

For now, I'm writing down the things I don't want to hear myself say and reading it.  This type of confrontation is good, it feels soothing to embrace the pain of it.

I do feel like I jumped to NC, I wanted to send that message and cut her off, It's not like there was a natural, healthier progression of just drifting apart on my side.


You are right, it brings more negative emotions by having done it, by me anyway.

formflier,,

Thank you.

I know the ruminations or how I handle them aren't positive as though I'm treating it like a work task.

I'm writing down the stuff that I don't want to confront or say out loud.  I feel better to confront the truth.

I go back and read and little by little try to filter out manufactured thoughts.

I end up writing some stuff that just reinforces my further ruminations...things I make up to make the truth as in..."they don't care about me", "they never did", "they never loved me"etc.

I'm creating things (true or not) negative things to try and reinforce my positive thinking...I don't think it works that way.

Reading under the most peaceful circumstances works if the subject is not involving.  Reading Brene Brown in the park after church on Sunday is great, reading in a different environment is impossible.

I'm mixed up.


There was a time that I came to the conclusion that I am in this for the long game and will take advantage of the time to become more emotionally intelligent and get better and be better.  I am still thinking about her actions and overreacting.

I would like the day to come that I no longer rattle myself because of her words or actions.  That won't "fix" her or make us who I want, but cutting with rigidity is not what I saw myself doing and had at that time some peace with the term...long game.

I'd like to get to that place again in my mind, I got caught up in her actions and perceived actions. I had more peace there.

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked.  The discussion is continued here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336150.msg13049691#msg13049691