Trying to move forward in our relationship

[Depression = 72% of members]

Good morning

Im hoping this platform can help me get some insight and guidance. My partner is BPD and a recovering addict (>3 years). We have a 6 month old baby together - I got pregnant very early on, maybe 2 months into our relationship.

We started counselling to try cope with baby stuff. We have a huge blow up maybe once a month and he keeps saying he feels unwanted and unloved. I have tried to give extra affirmations and attention, but its a bit hard with the baby too. We had a blow up on saturday and an incredible discussion after where we sorted through things and he was so open. Then at counselling on monday night all hell broke lose and suddenly we broke up with him trying to walk out of counselling and asking for his ring back. Its like we having different arguments and it just escalates so quickly.

We are living in separate rooms in the house now and are just being civil basically. The counsellor suggested we set boundaries and try to have one on one time to get to know each other without expectations and see what happens.

I really love him and hes an amazing dad and I want to be with him in a relationship. So basically Im asking for advice on how to try make him feel loved and how to approach him.

Thanks

[Robyn llama]

Good morning

Im hoping this platform can help me get some insight and guidance. My partner is BPD and a recovering addict (>3 years). We have a 6 month old baby together - I got pregnant very early on, maybe 2 months into our relationship.

We started counselling to try cope with baby stuff. We have a huge blow up maybe once a month and he keeps saying he feels unwanted and unloved. I have tried to give extra affirmations and attention, but its a bit hard with the baby too. We had a blow up on saturday and an incredible discussion after where we sorted through things and he was so open. Then at counselling on monday night all hell broke lose and suddenly we broke up with him trying to walk out of counselling and asking for his ring back. Its like we having different arguments and it just escalates so quickly.

We are living in separate rooms in the house now and are just being civil basically. The counsellor suggested we set boundaries and try to have one on one time to get to know each other without expectations and see what happens.

I really love him and hes an amazing dad and I want to be with him in a relationship. So basically Im asking for advice on how to try make him feel loved and how to approach him.

Thanks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Welcome, Robin Llama!

You'll find a supportive group here, full of people who can understand where you're coming from. There are a lot of tools that can help make a difficult time like this easier.

Babies are wonderful but they're also stressful and bring a lot of life changes -- things that can be big triggers for BPD.

I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. Details can help us know how we can best advise and support you.

Does your partner have an official BPD diagnosis? (Many people here have partners and family members who don't. They just exhibit many traits.)

Also, could you provide specific examples of a couple of those "huge blow ups"? That could give us a feel for your relationship dynamic and what tools might be helpful in improving the situation and keeping arguments from escalating.

Again, welcome! We're glad to have you here!

[Robyn llama]

His mother and him have indicated that he received the diagnosis 2 or 3 times when he was in his 20s (hes 30 now). I think the addiction added a layer to cover a lot later.

Blow ups - I didnt wear my seat belt and he had asked me before, suddenly screaming and swearing. At counselling we spoke about how I would like more help from him and that its not right to scream and swear in front of the baby - he walked out and the counsellor had to bring him back in. He keeps bringing up that he doesnt feel wanted and appreciated, and that we always fights - he says its everyday but its about once every 3 weeks. The blow ups can be about small things - like packing the baby bag, just random stuff. We struggle to have a discussion unless he is calm and he will push and say incredibly mean and harsh things until i react. Also he generally goes to ok then I will leave with any argument we have.

He started a new job 2 months ago and has been working 7 days a week, doing gym and attending NA meetings every night so he has been extra stressed.

Not sure if that helps?

[Robyn llama]

Also its literally like we are not in the same argument when we discuss it later - he will say I stormed off numerous times, but i left once, or he will say i was screaming and shouting but i literally wasnt engaging.

He also has very different memories of his childhood - like never went on holidays, but numerous family friends can say i was on the holidays with him every year

[Ozzie101]

Add a new job on top of a baby and, yes, that is a lot of stress. With my uBPDh, stressful situations exacerbate his symptoms, big-time.

pwBPD often don't take criticism or correction very well. That can definitely trigger an episode for them. Sometimes careful wording and phrasing can get the message across in a way that's less likely to set them off.

One thing I've learned -- the blow-ups and dysregulations are often not about what they seem to be about on the surface. For instance, if he blows up over the baby bag, it's probably not REALLY about the baby bag. Maybe he's given you a suggestion, you haven't taken it and to his BPD mind, that means you're rejecting his advice and, therefore, him. So, he lashes out in fear and anger. Does that make sense? It can help to really listen to what he's saying and to think through what is happening and has been happening. The BPD mind is complex and doesn't work the same way as a Non's mind.

Empathetic listening can be valuable in these situations:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

You said "We struggle to have a discussion unless he is calm and he will push and say incredibly mean and harsh things until i react." How do you react? Can you add a bit more detail?

Edited to add: Ah, yes, the different perceptions of reality. One thing to keep in mind with a pwBPD is, for them, feelings = facts. Whatever they feel in the moment is as real as the chair they're sitting on. They will twist memories and facts around to fit whatever it is they're feeling. Hence, the very different memories. I'm sure you're not in the same argument. I have been there many times with my H. It is frustrating and bewildering -- even a little scary.

I have found that it's best not to argue about those different perceptions. Not to agree (you don't want to validate the invalid) but just to not argue. There's no winning and arguing will only escalate the situation. Instead, I'll just sort of say something non-committal like "Huh. OK." or "I see." Or validate his feelings by saying, "Yes, I would be upset too if I felt like someone had treated me unfairly." Notice that's not saying I did treat him unfairly, just validating his feelings of unfairness.

It's not an easy skill and I struggle with it. A lot.

These can also be helpful:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

[Robyn llama]

Thanks very much. That is incredibly helpful.

I have been attempting to not react when theres an argument and just say we can speak later when u calm - not too helpful. Then if hes pushing and insulting I generally shout and that feeds into it even more.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, it's very hard not to snap back when we're being pushed and insulted. But, yes, it does feed the fire when we do. Using some of the tools on this site can help you stay calm and keep those situations from escalating. It takes time and practice but don't get discouraged. In a way, it's a lifestyle change, but can be very rewarding -- not just in your relationship with your partner but in other situations and relationships as well.

Please keep us posted how you're getting along!

[Robyn llama]

So it's been about a week of 'separate living' which is essentially the same as before but without intimacy or expectations (we responsible for ourselves only).

Im not sure if I just let it continue or of I should speak to him about the relationship or try be more intimate?

He's been very careful to not use any terms of endearment and was adamant our games night wasn't a date. I'm just worried that he will just cut me out, if that makes sense.

[Purplex]

Hello Robyn Llama!

I agree with Randi in that it's important to not engage in the push and pull behavior. He seems to be hesitant to bring things back to a more intimate level just yet, so I think it's important to respect that. Nevertheless, I think it would do no harm to express your affection by maybe proposing a 'real' date, if you word it in a way that leaves the option for him to decline without upsetting you. You want to convey that you care for him and enjoy spending time with him as a couple, but that you will wait for him and give him space if he is not ready for that yet. Keep it casual and without pressure.

Do you think this could work?

I'm just worried that he will just cut me out, if that makes sense.

What makes you think that?

[Robyn llama]

What exactly is the push/pull and how can I prevent or not engage?

With regards to the cutting me out - he has those stages where he says Im literally the worst person ever etc etc and I am just worried it doesnt stay a stage

[Purplex]

The push and pull can be seen as a reaction to fear of engulfement respectively fear of abandonment. Those fears can be experienced by anyone but are often especially distinct in pwBPD. Fear of engulfement means the fear of loosing oneself in a relationship, the fear of commitment and thereby beeing responsible for our partner. It is often followed by withdrawl, by creating distance in an attempt to reclaim a sense of self. The harder we try to pull them back in, the more they want to push us away.
But if we draw away too far their fear of abandonment sets in, they might engage in very over the top behavior to pull us back in and the cycle continues. 
Often the best approach here is to give them space to self-soothe and wait for them to get out of this dysregulation, while still staying close enough to convey stability and emotional security. It's a balancing act though, that requires a lot of sensitivity and patience.
Does this dynamic sound familiar?   

[Robyn llama]

Yes very familiar Purplex!

[Purplex]

How is it going? Any updates?

[Robyn llama]

hello!

So I have been working on letting things go and not reacting to snarky comments etc.
We were scheduled to go visit my grandmother and father with the baby for 2 weeks. It was a really nice holiday and I think he had a lot of time to relax and destress hich helped a lot. We discussed that he needs to not work 6 days a week and gym and do NA meetings everyday cause its not sustainable.

He makes comments about us not being together but then expects to be able to do couples things like squeeze my bum, go to the partner's friends events etc. After the holiday he did say he wants to try make it work. He also asked if i would sleep in the main bedroom with him again. I planned a date night playing minute to win it games which was really nice for us to relax and laugh but the baby was sick so we had to cut it sort.

Im just struggling with this in between stage and scared to bring it up - are we together or not, if we arent then there should be more boundaries.

I planned on starting NarAnon just to learn about setting boundaries and letting go, just then need him to have the baby for the evening, which hasnt been possible

Sorry for long post

[Ozzie101]

Hi Robyn Llama!

It's nice you were able to have a nice getaway. I know my H is always his best and most relaxed on vacations. Yet those rosy periods can also be kind of confusing. Is this the real him? Is it getting better? Or is it just going to slide back?

He's giving you very mixed signals, which can be confusing and crazy-making. I can understand being scared to bring things up. I've been there with my H. I hate to rock the boat when he's in a good mood. But the limbo stage is not sustainable and it's certainly not good for your own peace of mind and emotional sanity.

When it comes to affection, the status of the relationship, boundaries, have you really thought through what you want to happen?

[Robyn llama]

Thanks, yes I know what you mean.

I definitely want a relationship, but I also want commitment and to not be worried that he will threaten leaving every time we disagree.

Im not sure how to be affectionate and open and honest without rocking the boat. Its also very difficult at the moment cause he just sees that Im home from work before him or able to work at home. But its a hectically long day with work, the baby and then cooking. Hes not understanding why Im finished by 6pm

[Robyn llama]

So there was a bit of a blow out last night. I realised that we back from holiday and he goes back to same ways - no exercise, not attending his na meetings, and just as much work which is not manageable.

He admits BPD may be an issue but won't get any help.

He thinks that as long as I don't disrespect him or talk down to him (I didn't know that I did) then all problems will be fixed. I'm not sure how to get him to start working on issues

[Ozzie101]

Has he brought up your talking down to him (or him feeling that you do) before? Has he given specific examples?

[Robyn llama]

He has brought it up before. Says I'm disrespectful and talking down. He can't give examples and generally when asked he's a big angry already so just says 'like now' or 'all the time".

I don't understand it cause no one has ever said I do that and when I try reflect, I still don't think I'm doing that.

He also says that I'm argumentative all the time and looking for a fight, but it will be in cases where I'm just asking questions or trying not to engage cause he's being blunt.

He's now making jokes to friends and colleagues but it will be hurtful jokes about me. Like I can't have an opinion on universities cause when Im so ancient,"(I'm a few years older than him) or 'at least I'm working in the day and not sitting around like you (I work at my own business and I'm technically the breadwinner, then come home and look after the baby).

He says I need nar anon etc but then makes plans that conflict and I'm arguing when I say what must I do with the baby if I want to go to a meeting. Its like I'm not important and "shouldn't talk back" whenever he feels like it.

Im wondering if I'm being retarded. Why can't there just be a normal discussion or disagreement then move on?

Just been a rough work and baby week

[Robyn llama]

How much is me not seeing I'm doing things and how much is him and BPD?

[Purplex]

This is just a guess, but the things he jokes about (your age and work) could be a sign of what he is struggling with. Maybe he feels inferior to you in some way and seeks confrontation to assert himself?

[Ozzie101]

I agree with Purplex. Projection is a big deal with pwBPD. Often the things they lash out at are things that intimidate them or things that they actually see and don't like in themselves.

For instance, my H would lash out about my family and how awful they were. Thing was, as he admitted later, he really liked and admired them. But the close relationship I had with them intimidated him and also reminded him of what he didn't have with his own family.

Do you think that might be happening here?