Same Avoidance. Different Day.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So my husband of 13 years moved out finally. We could not occupy the same space anymore! I was living upstairs and he was downstairs! He is undiagnosed NPD or BPD.

And we are doing co-parenting since beginning of January and it's difficult to get him to follow the rules... .imagine that? Or get him to understand it would be good to pick up and drop off times be written out in an email. Then to get him to respond via email. Or actually text to confirm he is going to pick them up after art class. How can I make it clear it would be good if I knew he was going to pick them up after I dropped them off? He was the one who asked to pick them up to take them to dinner? We are working on getting an app to send messages and have a joint calendar, but, he is technologically challenged. So, that may not work. How do I get the point across to confirm the day of that he is getting the kids? He is getting them at 5:30. At 4:30 I text to say they are dropped off and at art class ready for him to pick up at the end of class. No text from him before. Then I have to call at 4:50 pm to make sure he is getting them. Then he has the balls to ask if I could get them? I said I am out running errands so am wondering if you are getting them? (Meaning I am close in case he screwed up and couldn't pick them up.) And he gets that I am nearby, and asks "Can you get them? I could use an hour of more time at work?" WHAT?I said "No, I am close by but running errands. They are waiting for you."

If I go and get the temporary orders will that make him straighten up? We haven't done this yet, in HIS mind, it means ready set go, 60 days get the divorce. But, he of course isn't following any reasonable means of communicating regarding the kids, will a court order get him to do so?

Should I not let him have the kids? There is no injunction in place. So it's all mutual agreement. What kinds of things can I do? Thank goodness he is not in my space anymore, but, this coordination of handing off of the children is depressing to begin with and it just goes to show how much I can't stand his lack of responsibility, etc. and how much he doesn't or can't care and doesn't view that someone else is trying to make plans for themselves (me) or the kids?

Anything you've got I will take!

[12years]

So my husband of 13 years moved out finally. We could not occupy the same space anymore! I was living upstairs and he was downstairs! He is undiagnosed NPD or BPD.

And we are doing co-parenting since beginning of January and it's difficult to get him to follow the rules... .imagine that? Or get him to understand it would be good to pick up and drop off times be written out in an email. Then to get him to respond via email. Or actually text to confirm he is going to pick them up after art class. How can I make it clear it would be good if I knew he was going to pick them up after I dropped them off? He was the one who asked to pick them up to take them to dinner? We are working on getting an app to send messages and have a joint calendar, but, he is technologically challenged. So, that may not work. How do I get the point across to confirm the day of that he is getting the kids? He is getting them at 5:30. At 4:30 I text to say they are dropped off and at art class ready for him to pick up at the end of class. No text from him before. Then I have to call at 4:50 pm to make sure he is getting them. Then he has the balls to ask if I could get them? I said I am out running errands so am wondering if you are getting them? (Meaning I am close in case he screwed up and couldn't pick them up.) And he gets that I am nearby, and asks "Can you get them? I could use an hour of more time at work?" WHAT?I said "No, I am close by but running errands. They are waiting for you."

If I go and get the temporary orders will that make him straighten up? We haven't done this yet, in HIS mind, it means ready set go, 60 days get the divorce. But, he of course isn't following any reasonable means of communicating regarding the kids, will a court order get him to do so?

Should I not let him have the kids? There is no injunction in place. So it's all mutual agreement. What kinds of things can I do? Thank goodness he is not in my space anymore, but, this coordination of handing off of the children is depressing to begin with and it just goes to show how much I can't stand his lack of responsibility, etc. and how much he doesn't or can't care and doesn't view that someone else is trying to make plans for themselves (me) or the kids?

Anything you've got I will take!

[worriedStepmom]

You are giving up too much of your power - you are waiting on him to take an action, and that doesn't seem to be going well.

When my (non-pd)ex and I divorced, I acted similarly to you and my ex acted very similarly to yours.  I was very very very frustrated!

So I changed the way I communicated.  If I asked a question, I included a default response.  "Are you going to get the kids from art class on Thursday at 5:30?  If I don't hear from you by Wednesday at noon, I'll assume that I'm getting them."

My ex still wouldn't respond, but now I didn't have to wonder.  I just had to take the action that I had previously set out.

I also stopped any of the reminding.  If he told me that he was picking up the kids at 5:30 on Thursday, then I assumed he would do it.  Once, my ex promised to pick the kids up on one of my days but forgot.  Day care called me when no one came to get them.  I told them it was his day and to call him (but to call me back if they couldn't get ahold of him.)

My ex was very angry with me that I hadn't reminded him.  I asked if he wanted me to treat him the same way I treated the 16-year-old babysitter.  He very self-righteously said yes, and I said, "Okay.  I call her.  I tell her what time to show up.  She says okay.  Then on that day at that time SHE SHOWS UP." 

He never forgot the kids again.

Good luck!  You can figure out a way to do this without driving yourself crazy.

[worriedStepmom]

My therapist also told me to stop trying to manage his relationship with the kids.  If he wanted to see them, absent an order, he needed to arrange that.  I tried really hard before we had temporary orders to facilitate him seeing the kids.  I was the one asking him when he wanted them.  I was the one making sure he saw the kids. 

Basically, I wanted him to see the kids more than he wanted to see them. 

Once I stopped trying to make the arrangements, he slowly started asking to see them and making plans.  He didn't see them as often as I thought he should, but it was the amount that he wanted... .and it's his relationship with them.

[GaGrl]

Absolutely use the technique suggested above... .If you don't hear from him, it doesn't happen. It sets up consequences, and that will be good as the divorce and ongoing co-parenting continues.

Remember, you are not his social secretary.

Also, when you do get temporary orders, you can adhere to the established schedule. If/when he wants to deviate, you will be able to say, "I am following the court order."

[12years]

Thank you worriedstepmom and Gagrl! I just feel so un-empowered. I thought I would feel so much better but it's so frustrating! How long did you do this until you got temporary orders did you get them? Did you get them without your SO knowing? And just had them served by surprise? And once you have the temporary orders or are divorced what do you do to keep track of this sort of thing? I heard a calendar is good to write things down on and keep track of text messages or an app. I guess I am still shocked by things, I haven't learned to be strong yet, or only sometimes I am strong. Shocked by, "can you get them?" when I was out doing errands because I am not doing anything important... .it was a big deal for me to say, "sure get them after art and take them to dinner" after he only asked the day prior. How long in advance do you set up arrangements? How do you go about communicating these things? Email? He seems to want to have a conference call, which every opportunity to speak turns into an opportunity to verbally abuse me. I expect it to go poorly/awkwardly, but, how do I get him to respond if I don't want to talk on the phone? When there are temporary orders can you just say only written communication? I would love that!

 

[worriedStepmom]

What you can get in orders depends on the judges in your jurisdiction.  I know of several people who have orders that state all communication must be in email or through a coparenting app.

We got temporary orders about 10 weeks after he left/4 weeks after he filed for divorce.  We were both present in court with our attorneys.  This defined exactly when each of us was supposed to get the kids.  We tried using the online calendar cozi.com, and we tried using a shared gmail calendar, and then we gave up.  Actually, *I* gave up, because he expected me to be the only one marking things on the calendar, even if it was his idea to switch, and I got tired of being his secretary.  Now we coordinate any changes via text or email and we each keep track of our own calendars.

Without temporary orders, you can refuse to talk on the phone AND he can refuse to email or text.  That standoff will last until one of you wants something enough to give in.  That may mean the status quo sticks - you have the kids and he doesn't see them.

[12years]

Thank you worriedstepmom! I know each case is different and each time I communicate it's different! Because he can't be consistent and it will depend on his mood. But, I am persisting with the emailing for now. I am sure he will not get the app unless court ordered. I will just manage the conference calls when they come up and just be "all business" but, I know something with make me upset. So, the less calls the better. And I wrote in the email that he has to text day of and when he picks up the kids. And when he is done with dinner and bringing them back too. (He seems to do this, but, of course he'll just show up.) I have to always be on my toes. The days he's coming to get the kids are not good days! Dropping off days are better, but, he doesn't get how much everything either makes me mad or sad. I would never tell him and haven't in years, but, they are my life, my kids, and I feel so sad when they are not at home... .but, anything is better than having him in this same house. I just want to get the nerve to stand up more, and just say, "no, they can't come tomorrow, that notice is too short," or "no, they can't come over on that day/night because we already made plans and you haven't gotten back to me," or "if you don't let me know you are getting them in time, you can't" ha! that won't work though, he will cause a scene at the drop off or pick up point if he showed up. He is not afraid to! Public humiliation has happened and that's why I keep my head down! And kids have seen enough!

[worriedStepmom]

And I wrote in the email that he has to text day of and when he picks up the kids. And when he is done with dinner and bringing them back too. (He seems to do this, but, of course he'll just show up.)

So, he lets you know ahead of time when he will get the kids, and then you want him to text you that morning to confirm, a second time when he actually picks the kids up, and then a third time when he is preparing to return to your home?

That is excessive.

You have to push responsibility onto him.  If he sets up a time when he will get the kids, then it is his responsibility to get the kids.  He does not need to notify you when he picks them up from daycare.  If he does not pick them up, daycare will notify one of you.

You should have a specific time when he will return the kids.  He does not need to let you know when he is on the way.  If he proves over time that he will not return the kids at the specified time, then you can start picking them up.

It is very very common for the primary caregiver to be overly controlling when they first separate.  You don't trust the other parent to properly care for the kids or do things the right way.  However, you are both equally parents, and part of separation/divorce is that he no longer has to answer to you. 

Are you seeing a therapist for yourself?  It really helped me to do that.  I had to learn to let go of control, and I think that is also a lesson that you will need to learn.

[Panda39]

12 years,

Both worriedmom and Gagrl are giving you great advice 

I would continue to try and communicate via email, it is a documentation trail that you might want later when you do eventually go to court.  He is showing a pattern of behavior... .lack of communication regarding the children having this documentation may help you establish your communication requirements as you negotiate a parenting plan.  Email documentation may assist you in other areas as well. (Just keep in mind how you communicate as it may be read by a judge)

I love worried mom's idea of creating a deadline for him to respond or you take action. It is my feeling that if you have a email like worried mom suggested, you got no response from your ex, you went and picked up the kids, and then he complained about it in court.  The judge would ask if he answered your email... .no?... .well then you did what was in the best interest of the children and made sure they were picked up.

Hang in there you are not alone 
Panda39
 

[12years]

Worried step mom,
Yes, maybe that is excessive considering it was an agreed upon pick up the day prior. But, we are talking about a person who leaves his computer on business trips on an airplane, more than once, and constantly loses his phone, charger, gym card, yes, these are not my concern anymore though I was asked "do you know where my charger is?" after he moved out... .in any case we are dealing with a very distracted, absentminded person and I may be asking for three times too much, yes, but, I think maybe let me know he's on his way to get them? Which it was 40 min before he was to get there and I  had no idea if he was going to get them and when I called to check he was getting them--at that point-- he asked me to pick them up since he wanted to stay at work longer? The gall. But, I guess just letting me know he's on his way to get him would be best. Thanks for saying that's excessive. Yes, of course I am controlling, I have been watching and caring for these kids for 11 years, so he could have a career. Big mistake! But that's another story. Thanks for letting me know that's too much. Yes, I do see a therapist, for over 2 years now and another before we moved back to the States from Germany... .that's when I started really wondering what was going on. My therapist is helpful like you were! I do get emotional and that is hard for me though, I know I should take a step back in most situations. I just have been burned so many times I am like a dog who has been beaten too much, I just can't trust anything he does. Especially anything he says. And most of what I do is to bring up these children with confidence and personality, and try to make them feel safe. I didn't feel safe, so that was/is hard. It's maybe a bit too much being involved with the kids, but, I am the consistent one in their lives and will be. He's really not been around. So when they have accomplishments, those are mine too!

[ForeverDad]

I don't know whether your court would approve of this from the start but think about this and see whether some aspects would help you... .  If he wants to delay the established exchange pattern, then take the kids home and tell him he lost his parenting opportunity and he can get them the next time he's scheduled.  When he squawks, tell him you need advance notice if there are any delays or changes.

That can be cast as a boundary... .Clear and firm boundaries are important.  Sadly, most pwBPD resist boundaries.  So odds are you can't make your ex observe boundaries.  Then why are they important?  The boundaries are for you yet hinge on the ex's behaviors!  In this sense... ."If you do or don't do ___ then I will or will not do ___."  An example is... .If you don't advise me at least (advance notice time) when you'll be late (or whatever) then I will leave with the kids and you can get them at the next scheduled visitation period.  You can modify that approach to various situations, so you can substitute (1) ex's poor behavior and (2) what you can do to address the situation and manage some control of the outcome.  A firm boundary with some teeth usually can improve the ex's behaviors, though of course not always.

Here is just one example of the games my ex played over the years.  She got it in her head to posture that she was afraid of my new daycare.  (Yeah, my prior daycare had filed a stalking petition against her in civil court!  Well, she was following the daycare's bus and creating scenes at the daycare.)  So she refused pickup there and told me to bring him to the sheriff's office which we had used during the divorce.  I just picked him up as unclaimed (once the order's half hour exchange window was past) and we went home.  A couple hours later a deputy came to my door with her.  I said No, she should have picked him up at the daycare at the ordered time window.  He begged me to let her have our son.  I was fed up with her games and so said No.  He turned to her, said Sorry, then told both of us Work it out in Court.  He kept the immediate incident from getting out of hand but he wasn't prepared to resolve the problem by force.  Son was happy to stay with me.  Her loss?  One day.  She was able to get him the next day after school anyway.  The point is... .She didn't try that particular game again.

[livednlearned]

I just want to get the nerve to stand up more, and just say, "no, they can't come tomorrow, that notice is too short," or "no, they can't come over on that day/night because we already made plans and you haven't gotten back to me," or "if you don't let me know you are getting them in time, you can't"

I might look at this in two stages. One is this current stage, where you are still legally married and may eventually end up in court to settle custodial orders. It sounds like he is not able to follow a straight line and that can be to your advantage during this stage. Document everything, especially all the times you try to get him to coordinate with the kids and he fails to do so. If he offers you the kids, take them, even if it's late notice. Eventually you will get something in writing and while he won't necessarily follow it, you will have it to point to -- the legal document that says who does what when. The more you have them now, the more status quo you can demonstrate to a judge (if it comes to that).

Get as much time as you possibly can with the kids. If your H is like other BPD/NPD dads, he will fight for the sake of fighting, and then when he gets something in writing for his time with the kids, he will fail to live up to the custodial time he fought so hard to get.

Once you have something in writing (could be a while), then you have a bit more leverage through the legal system.

In the meantime, learn to use phrases that state what you will do whether you hear from or not. For example, "I will be picking the kids up at x o'clock. If I don't hear from you by day/date/time, I will assume we are good to go."

Unfortunately, when it comes to him dropping the kids off unexpectedly, at this stage it's probably best to go with it (within reason). He is probably more prone to dysregulation now that the perceived abandonment feels real and dropping the kids off is likely his way of getting himself sorted out.

I believe my ex did the same when he was unfit to parent. It was inconvenient but also better to have S17 with me than with his dad in that state.

[12years]

Ok, so worried step mom, gagrl, forever Dad and form flier:
I have tried some of these techniques and I feel I have written several times about the same thing, but, it's so hard. The exchanges with the kids is very anxious and stressful (when he comes to get them or drop them off). I guess it's getting a little better except for we discuss a time and he goes right back and changes it to the original time (he can't think other than his original plan in his head, narcissists reveal their intentions I have realized). What's a way I can let him know that I am thinking of the kids to get them outta there so he can get ready to go on a business trip? I was suggesting a half hour earlier. No one wants to be around when he goes on trips. This is something I avoided for quite a few years now! So, this weekend his parents are in town. They are not staying with me and I have only seen them when they came to pick up the kids. But he's going to the airport tonight at 7 pm. So, I thought it was agreed get the kids at 6:30 and he said that's good because I have to head to the airport.  But, back to the time change, in front of his parents and kids (they are in the car) he, glares at me with pure rage on his face, saying "you keep changing the time," "we want to have dinner," really nastily. I am shocked, I am being polite, saying hi to his parents, suffering through an awkward hug with his mom, and he has pure rage on his face. I guess I don't understand where all his anger comes from and how a half hour could possibly be an issue. I wrote an email and have continued to, to document the pick up and drop off times, but these I think are basically ignored. So I have encouraged an app for over a month, since I think he won't read the stuff at work. Some how he can't access his personal email anymore. (Lots of technical difficulties on his part.) BUT HOW do I handle such ferocious interactions? How can I block the anger from affecting me? I feel I am just asking to confirm and agreed upon time? And I went back to the JADEing and said "Wait, I am just trying to confirm," to stop him from getting in the car so angry, when I should just let him get in the car and take off if that's how immaturely he wants to fight. But, he was driving my kids right then?

And I tried so hard to be polite and say hello to his parents, and just make arrangements for the next day, and he is rude and he says "I have to go! why don't you call me tomorrow"? I have to get them at his apartment which I know already. I have never been there and don't worry, I am pulling up outside and collecting the kids, there is no way in hell I am going in the apartment! I just feel like I should not bend and do something he told me, which is call him. Because after the nasty exchange, it's clear pick them up at 7 pm at his apartment. So, why call? No one was listening, and no one (kids and parents were in car) didn't notice how awful he was to me. So, I sent a text after the awful exchange that "I would get them at 7pm at his apartment. Let me know if time changes." I absolutely hate talking to him and prefer electronic communicationand after that I feel justified. But, tell me what you think.

I literally then went in my bed for the rest of the day, my energy depleted from the unexpected exchange.

Now, to another thing happening, I did not want to go to dinner with my husband and the kids and the grandparents, so I arranged breakfast tomorrow after he's out of town. Does this seem like a good idea?  And as I mentioned there was an awkward (VERY) hug with his mother. (She pushed my arms away at the end. She sort of used to do this, but, that was purposeful push.) I did not want to hug her, but she suggested it! Should I just drop the kids off to have breakfast with them? I haven't talked to them since the separation was announced, well, maybe once. I of course will not say anything I don't know my husband to hear. I used to be close with my mother in law. I do blame them for how their son turned out though! I am meeting them near their hotel and getting the hell out of there as fast as possible, but, thought it would be good to be on good terms with his mom? But, what do you all think?

[12years]

Sorry, I meant to write thank you to livednlearned and Panda39 as well! whoops form flier is not on this one, but, he's helped quite a bit!:-)

[worriedStepmom]

I think you are still trying to micromanage the situation too much.  This causes anxiety for you and for him.

You have defined times on when you are supposed to exchange the kids.  Stick to them.  If he has a problem with the times, then HE can suggest a change and you can decide if it is convenient for you.  It is not your job to manage his stress over packing and getting ready for a trip.

If his stress is impacting the children (resulting in behavior issues, mood changes, etc), document that.  That's for your lawyer, as you work out a final custody agreement, so you can prove that he is having a negative effect on the children.

If the two of you can work out a temporary schedule, e.g., he gets them every Tuesday from 5:30 - 8 pm, then there should be absolutely no reason for you to email, text, or call in between.  This should be your goal - a consistent schedule that does not require you to intervene in any way.

[worriedStepmom]

Just to reiterate, I know how difficult it is to deal with the lack of control when you have first separated and have to trust the other parent with the children.  It's HARD, especially for moms who are used to having most of the emotional/organizational labor in the family.

You HAVE to let go of that need to control, though.  That's what's best for you and for your children.  Your therapist can be invaluable in helping you cope with this, because it is a complete mindshift.

My H's xW has BPD, and even 9 years after their divorce, she feels the need to know everything that is going on with their child.  She constantly wants updates from my H, and if he won't provide them, from their daughter.  My H is soo irritated by her, and what he perceives as her lack of trust in his parenting skills, that often he won't respond to her at all, even if her questions might be valid.  It's just too much.  SD11 is also fed up.  I'm not saying you are in uBPDxw's league, but your STBXH may likewise be either fed up with the amount of communication or unable to keep track of that amount of communication (since he seems to have difficulties with organization).

Simple, direct, and infrequent communication is your best bet.

[livednlearned]

I arranged breakfast tomorrow after he's out of town. Does this seem like a good idea?  And as I mentioned there was an awkward (VERY) hug with his mother. (She pushed my arms away at the end. She sort of used to do this, but, that was purposeful push.) I did not want to hug her

Sometimes it helps to come up with specific phrases, ones that you keep in your wheelhouse for situations where you will feel compromised. I know as a people pleaser myself that the feelings of protecting myself are often more uncomfortable than whatever hell might follow. A good phrase, well-timed, can be your best friend so you have a lifeline to help you out of these moments.

You don't have to hug someone. You don't have to hug someone long enough to be pushed away. You don't have to have breakfast with ex-in-laws. You can say, "I'm a bit hugged out right now." Or, "I'm still trying to wrap my head around all these changes -- let's take a raincheck until things are settled."

It's a big adjustment what's happening right now. You will see your kids teeter a bit as they try to figure out how to manage without you organizing everything and everyone.

It can be for the better, even tho it's likely to be uncomfortable managing the transition.

[12years]

Hello everyone!
Just writing on here is helpful to me though I hadn't heard back since my last post. Well, I decided to go to breakfast with the grandparents and it was pretty ok. But, I was emotionally wiped the rest of the day. I won't have to do that for another couple of years!
How do you free yourself from the conversation/argument running over and over in your head ruining your day? How do I block myself from anger when it's happening? I have started reading a book How To Thrive After Narcissistic Abuse by Melanie Tonia Evans. It has a great 1st exercise that you write down then "feel" what you are worried about most, then picture it going away! But, this is not happening with the attacks that still come from my soon-to-be-ex husband. I spiral back down and am unable to do things after an unexpected exchange. I did do the mental exercise after it happened only after I stayed in bed the whole day!

[livednlearned]

It's disorienting in the beginning when you're starting to steady yourself.

What made you feel it was necessary to go to breakfast with the inlaws?

It sounds like you were hesitant to, and then talked yourself into it.

I'm glad it went ok.

[12years]

Hi Livenlearned:
What type of specific phrases should I use? I need some examples. As soon as the rage starts I tend to fall back into my old "spinning my wheels" talking (JADEing) and don't know what to say? I am tempted to just laugh at the anger, but, he is SCARY. I don't want to keep falling in the verbal traps I used to and get so upset. It really brings me down.
I wish I could do everything via app or email and just have short and sweet exchanges only exchanging the kids and NO conversation or do exchanges in a public place. I guess that may be the next step. Any one done this before? How do you get these boundaries in place? Clearly what I am doing which is really going Modified NO Contact is not working, which when you see each other, it isn't really no contact? Any one can respond with tips, please! You guys are REALLY helping me here! (Maybe it doesn't seem like it!)

[12years]

Worried Step Mom-
I wanted to see what the inlaws were going to be like in the future. They were very nice and polite and it was only slightly awkward. And there was a normal hug at the end from the mother in law. I would like to be in contact with them regarding the kids or when they will see or have the kids visit them!
So, it was beneficial, but, you are right could have gone the other way. And, I may decline next time, because we are "caught up." I won't be seeing them for another couple of years (it's been over a year since I have seen them!)
Thanks for your thoughts, worriedstepmom!

[livednlearned]

As soon as the rage starts I tend to fall back into my old "spinning my wheels" talking (JADEing) and don't know what to say?

Stop.
Not today.
Not now.
That's enough.
No.

Patricia Evans has a book about dealing with verbal abuse that you might find helpful. Toward the end of my relationship with n/BPDx I started to hold up my hand and say (calmly, assertively) STOP which was a suggestion from that book. It surprised me to discover that it had the effect of turning scary n/BPDx into petulant child n/BPDx.

You are the authority in this relationship because he is developmentally/emotionally arrested. If he scares you maybe see if you can record him in your state. When my ex started to physically bully me I would hold my phone up and that seemed to change the dynamic pretty quickly.

[12years]

Thank you, Livenlearned. I believe you have told me about holding up the phone to record him, is that right? I hope to have the strength because this has to "STOP" (holding up hand)! :-)

[takingandsending]

“STOP” works with my  uBPDxw as well. We use OFW for communication because she stated I was threatening and abusive in communication. So we now have record of our communications. I have had to use Stop in my communications on OFW because she was on a blame rampage. And it worked. She stopped the  blaming language.

Clear boundaries are hard for me, so I too tried modified NC. And I am learning that I still need to have clear boundaries even with very limited contact. Do recommend neutral, public exchanges especially at the beginning. Park, grocery store or school all work.

Can I ask what you are doing for yourself through all of this? I can see how many times you mention being exhausted, tired or remaining in bed. Hope you have support and activities to help you through these tough times. Don’t be afraid to lean on friends and family and consider seeing a T if you are not already. You deserve support and care too.

[12years]

We are hoping to use AppClose it's not a good name but more highly rated. This email and texting are not working. But, this is how it goes with a person (not me) who is disorganized. He left his phone at home today, I only know this because he emailed me this and is getting my son tonight for a night with him. He literally didn't write anything to me except he'd like my son tonight, until I wrote this morning, "please get my son at 5 pm tonight." But, no he can't come then can come at 5:30. It's really never ending. And he's supposed to take his daughter to daddy daughter dance but he hadn't signed up. I had asked, did you get signed up and he said "you don't need to worry about it." Well, he has not signed up yet and it's tomorrow, so I guess he's doing this on way to get his son at 5:30 which will turn into 6p. and in the same email asked me to do it for him, I said "I am not going to the gym today and I threw the sign up paper out. And he should stop by and sign up on his way." It goes on and on... .

I am working on a google certification for myself, networking, working out, organizing, by doing the Marie Kondo method for the massive amount of junk we have, enjoying life without him in the same house. The kids have more time for homework, and mom being able to help and keep up with it, eating what dinner we want to eat, movies at home, etc. I also am doing some healing with a method I found in a book by Melanie Tonia Evans. It's great! Just started it.
Thank you for asking!

[12years]

Thank you takingandsending. I just wrote back and didn't say thank you!

And thank you to livenlearned regarding the Patricia Evans recovery process from verbal abuse. I will look into it! She has a website too it looks like.

[worriedStepmom]

I love Marie Kondo!  We got rid of about 30% of our stuff last year after I read her book and are going through the house again this year to further reduce, now that our "spark joy" filter works better.  it's so helpful after a separation, too, to create your own space with the things that YOU value and want.

Does your lawyer have an estimate for when he thinks you can get temporary orders?

[12years]

Livenlearned--Which Patricia Evans book did you get these tips from?  I got a newer one but I don't see these ways to stop the abuse. Thanks!

By the way, I talked to Patricia on the phone to gain access to the website, I guess this is a way she can drum up business, and she was asking me to tell my soon-to-be-ex to call her! What? This is a guy who won't go to the dentist never mind a therapist and your are expecting him to call for a session with someone he doesn't know on the phone? So "I could find out what was wrong with him." Frankly I don't care and it was a bit ludicrous. Also, she insisted I would not know how to talk to my kids or him so I should set up a session with her, she kept repetatively saying, "you won't know how to talk to your kids, you won't know how to talk to your kids," in a manner that seemed a bit abusive I have to say. It was a strange conversation and someone who is trying to tell you to get over abuse, she was being very aggressive on the phone. It was quite odd! I thanked her for her time and got off the phone!  I guess all these things you have to take with a grain of salt and use the advice that suits you.

[12years]

Worried Step Mom--
I can do the lawyer thing super fast, it's just I don't have any income and currently searching for a job. I can't really sustain myself without income when we become divorced. I am searching every day and networking. And also becoming certified in some skills that will help!

I do love the Marie Kondo, I am just about to really get into it with all the stuff in the house that doesn't bring joy! I would love to throw it all out and start again (not practical)! But really, a lot does not bring me joy like furniture in the master bedroom, a couch that was like pulling teeth to get then apparently "not liked and was ugly" and some outdoor furniture that I was harrassed (to say it lightly) about when the delivery guys came. Get this stuff outta here!:-)

[worriedStepmom]

When my ex first moved out, I hated our house and everything in it.  Too many memories, not all good. 

I started by cleaning out ALL of his things.  I handed him a box or two every time he came to pick up or drop off the kids.  I didn't sort any of it, just dumped it in the boxes and let him handle it.  We divided up the furniture, and I made him come get his share by a certain date.

Then I got to sort the rest.  I threw a lot away and saved some things in a box to make decisions about in a year when I wasn't emotional.  I didn't have a lot of money, so I redecorated the house by myself.  I painted a few rooms, refinished the kitchen cabinets and painted them, changed the furniture placement in the master bedroom and living room, and dug up the giant bushes in the front yard that I'd been asking him for years to take out.  (One of my neighbors actually came over to try to help me with the 6-ft tall bushes.  I thanked him and told him I was proving to myself that I could do it.)

I actually took some pride in displaying the things that I liked that he had never liked.  Because this was now MY house, and his opinion was no longer welcome inside those doors.  By the time our divorce was final 8 months later, I loved my house (and I had awesomely toned arms from all the work I'd been doing).

As you reclaim your space, you also reclaim your power, so keep up the good work!

(As for the lawyer and finances - have you had a consultation to find out what kind of financial deal you could expect with temporary orders?  I actually got spousal support in the temporary orders that wasn't included in the final decree.  My STBX was also required to pay some of the household bills.)