Now she's on a New Age kick...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Update since this thread--https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333407.0

Shortly after the last post, I had a conversation with my wife during a time of relative calm, explaining that I love her very much, am very worried, very scared, take her very seriously, and that I was not equipped to handle the suicidality and would call 911 if I felt like her life was in danger. That conversation did not go terrifically well, but it was also not terrible. Since then, there has not been any convulsive crying (that I know of), property destruction (that I know of), suicide threats, endless emails/texts, etc. This is literally the longest stretch of time without any of that in three years. We have spent some time together doing normal things.

But it all seems very weird to me, and I'm not sure how to react. I don't trust any of it, and part of me wonders if this is the "calm" some people experience when they have decided to kill themselves. But she is thinking about and talking about the future. She seems to (newly) be into positive thinking and repetitive affirmations and trusting "the universe" to give her what she wants. I can't tell exactly who she is reading or listening to, but there is clearly something she has latched on to. Overall, I guess this seems like not a bad thing. I've tried to be affirming. But I don't think this will last. And there are still threats, though they are expressed more nicely. She now lets me know (pretty much every time I've seen her) that she may have to "bless and release me." Um, okay? Just not sure what to do with all of this.

And in other news, my T is leaving (moving) at the end of the month. This is the longest I've seen a T (about a year) and it took about four tries before I found someone I felt like sticking with. I'm going to see another T in the same practice, so I'll see how that goes. Trying to be optimistic, but not looking forward to pretty much starting over with someone new.

[stolencrumbs]

Update since this thread--https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333407.0

Shortly after the last post, I had a conversation with my wife during a time of relative calm, explaining that I love her very much, am very worried, very scared, take her very seriously, and that I was not equipped to handle the suicidality and would call 911 if I felt like her life was in danger. That conversation did not go terrifically well, but it was also not terrible. Since then, there has not been any convulsive crying (that I know of), property destruction (that I know of), suicide threats, endless emails/texts, etc. This is literally the longest stretch of time without any of that in three years. We have spent some time together doing normal things.

But it all seems very weird to me, and I'm not sure how to react. I don't trust any of it, and part of me wonders if this is the "calm" some people experience when they have decided to kill themselves. But she is thinking about and talking about the future. She seems to (newly) be into positive thinking and repetitive affirmations and trusting "the universe" to give her what she wants. I can't tell exactly who she is reading or listening to, but there is clearly something she has latched on to. Overall, I guess this seems like not a bad thing. I've tried to be affirming. But I don't think this will last. And there are still threats, though they are expressed more nicely. She now lets me know (pretty much every time I've seen her) that she may have to "bless and release me." Um, okay? Just not sure what to do with all of this.

And in other news, my T is leaving (moving) at the end of the month. This is the longest I've seen a T (about a year) and it took about four tries before I found someone I felt like sticking with. I'm going to see another T in the same practice, so I'll see how that goes. Trying to be optimistic, but not looking forward to pretty much starting over with someone new.

[Enabler]

Have you heard or read about spiritual bypassing? It seems a dramatic cure for what seemed like such extreme and frequent suicide threats but many have found release from emotional pain through lifting it up (handing it over) to a higher being.

If you think about the nurture side of the equation in the form of parental care, the idea is that a parent provides unconditional love. I see this going into ones love bucket... .in your guts. Many pwBPD didn’t receive this kind of love, instead they had punitive parents who punctured their love bucket with holes. Where there is supposed to be this nuclear fuel rod of hot burning love for ourselves is a cold dry empty bucket. Along rocks spiritualism, religion and faith offering to provide an endless supply of love... .unconditional love at that (or with a few rules) and bingo they find they can love themselves again.

Here’s the problem though. Although there is an endless supply of love on offer from spiritualism, it’s not quite enough and clearly bleeds from the love bucket. So, like hard drugs you have to get deeper and deeper and deeper and more and more spiritual to continue to receive more love in your leaky love bucket. Ultimately the only answer is to fill the holes, repair your core emotional injury enabling the love bucket to be more watertight... .

This is how I view it anyway.

Enabler

[stolencrumbs]

I had not heard that term, but I like it. Will do some more reading, but it sounds plausible that something like this is going on. This does seem to me way too dramatic of a turn.

[babyducks]

Hi stolencrumbs,

I'm very happy to hear that you have had a break from  the convulsive crying, property destruction, suicide threats, endless emails/texts.   You absolutely deserved a break.     I can see how it would feel weird to have all of that suddenly snap into a different direction.    Do you see a connection to your boundary of calling 911?    I think there is a connection.

. She now lets me know (pretty much every time I've seen her) that she may have to "bless and release me." Um, okay? Just not sure what to do with all of this.

Well that's an interesting phrase.     May I ask,   what do you say when she tells you this?

She may indeed have found some new age guru that helps her soothe her chaotic emotions.    And that may be working.    It certainly seems to be working better than her previous approach.    She may be in the idealization of phase with the new age ideas.    It may not last.    Or it could.    But while you have this period of relative calm,   I would encourage you to continue to focus on yourself.    I am sure that seeing a new therapist is difficult,  it's hard to establish rapport.   What my experience has been is that it's not really starting over.   Not really.    You are not in the same place you were a year ago.    You made a big change, you established a boundary.   and that boundary appears to be holding for now.    You are different.     You have started to take positive action and see positive results.

'ducks

[stolencrumbs]

Hi stolencrumbs,

I'm very happy to hear that you have had a break from  the convulsive crying, property destruction, suicide threats, endless emails/texts.   You absolutely deserved a break.     I can see how it would feel weird to have all of that suddenly snap into a different direction.    Do you see a connection to your boundary of calling 911?    I think there is a connection.

Well that's an interesting phrase.     May I ask,   what do you say when she tells you this?

She may indeed have found some new age guru that helps her soothe her chaotic emotions.    And that may be working.    It certainly seems to be working better than her previous approach.    She may be in the idealization of phase with the new age ideas.    It may not last.    Or it could.    But while you have this period of relative calm,   I would encourage you to continue to focus on yourself.    I am sure that seeing a new therapist is difficult,  it's hard to establish rapport.   What my experience has been is that it's not really starting over.   Not really.    You are not in the same place you were a year ago.    You made a big change, you established a boundary.   and that boundary appears to be holding for now.    You are different.     You have started to take positive action and see positive results.

'ducks

Thanks 'ducks. I see the temporal connection, and I guess I'm kind of believing that the boundary is connected to the behavior change. But yes, it feels extraordinarily strange. And part of me is just scratching my head thinking "there's no way you can just turn that off like that."

So she has told me this "bless and release" thing a few times. Most of it has been lighthearted. I went to the grocery. Ice cream was not on the list. That night she decided she wanted ice cream and jokingly (or half jokingly) told me I should have anticipated that need. Then she said we might not be on the same "spiritual path" and that she might have to "bless and release me." I think I just said "ok." Today she sent me an email that said she didn't feel like we were on the same team and that with or without me, she was working on making a life that had things that mattered to her. Somewhere in there was the "bless and release" phrase. I have not responded to that.

My unfiltered thoughts are "Great! Please do that!" Among the worst things about the past few years is feeling like she is only with me because she doesn't think she can live on her own. Like if someone offered her enough money to buy a house in a place she wants to be and to hire a gardener, carpenter, chef, driver, and maid, she'd be out of here. I don't want her to be with me because she thinks she doesn't have a choice, and that's what I've heard for years. So I would love for her to take control of her own life and start doing things that make it better. My hope, I guess, is that there is some version of us in that life, but if what she decides she needs to do in order to have the life she wants is to "bless and release" me, I'm okay with that.

[babyducks]

I see the temporal connection, and I guess I'm kind of believing that the boundary is connected to the behavior change. But yes, it feels extraordinarily strange. And part of me is just scratching my head thinking "there's no way you can just turn that off like that."

well that makes a great deal of sense.   you've been living on the edge of the abyss for ………… a long time.    suddenly stepping back from the edge would make me dizzy as  

it might be possible for her to 'turn it off like that' if what she wanted was the boundary.    if you wander over to the child with BPD boards and read for a while sooner or later you will see a thread about cutting and self injury.   the recommendation for cutting and self injury is that the child is given the materials to dress and clean the cuts but takes care of the injury themselves.    at first it sounds cruel,   unduly harsh.    but it almost always has the effect of slowing the cutting.    it's the clear crisp boundary.    If you do this, you will be responsible for fixing it.    it's setting a limit on who is care taking.    

So she has told me this "bless and release" thing a few times. Most of it has been lighthearted. I went to the grocery. Ice cream was not on the list. That night she decided she wanted ice cream and jokingly (or half jokingly) told me I should have anticipated that need.

hmmm.   I don't actually think she was joking or half joking.   I think she was quite serious.     people with this type of mental illness have such porous personal boundaries … they can, and do, believe it's possible and desirable to merge into an amoeba like oneness.    that's the way to be.    that's how to feel whole.    

once my ex partner yelled at me because I didn't get her the right present for a certain occasion.    I should have known you see.    and because I didn't instinctively know, that meant we were not really together.    together is much more a literal thing for my ex.

Then she said we might not be on the same "spiritual path" and that she might have to "bless and release me." I think I just said "ok." Today she sent me an email that said she didn't feel like we were on the same team and that with or without me, she was working on making a life that had things that mattered to her. Somewhere in there was the "bless and release" phrase. I have not responded to that.

seems like more amoeba like oneness.   you have to be on the same spiritual path, no other spiritual path is acceptable.    could also be some testing behavior, again looking for limits and boundaries.   if it were me I would frame some response of 'yes you are responsible for making your own life, still I think we can share some good things together'

My unfiltered thoughts are "Great! Please do that!"

I wouldn't hold back on your unfiltered thought.   I might not express it exactly like that but shielding her from your honest thoughts and reality isn't protecting her, or being nice.    It's not fair to you either.

[Cat Familiar]

babyducks has given you some great advice. She's been through a lot with her former SO.

It appears that you establishing a boundary that you'd call 911 was really effective. Perhaps there are other boundaries you might implement that will also help.

[boatingwoman]

When you leave, be sure to take the dog.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi stolencrumbs, is she still on the new agey "bless and release" path today?

[stolencrumbs]

Hi stolencrumbs, is she still on the new agey "bless and release" path today?

I don't know. Probably not. She returned to crying last night. I had not seen her since Saturday, when she asked me to leave because I didn't have a plan and/or wasn't doing enough around the house. Mostly silence on Sunday and Monday. Then I made a mistake and things went further downhill.

I found out last week that I needed to go out of town this Friday for work. I'll just be gone Friday night, back on late Saturday afternoon. I did not immediately tell my wife about this. I told her on Monday. This is now, according to her, the worst thing I could've done and the "last straw." I'm a liar. I'm deceptive. She's trying so hard and I just keep hurting her. etc. Last night was back to endless emails and texts about this.

I did apologize, because I do think I should have brought it up sooner and talked with her about it. And I do see that she has/had made an effort to do things differently and treat me differently over the course of the last week or so. And not telling her sooner feeds into her "feeling invisible" and like she doesn't matter to me. I do feel bad. My apology was sincere.

But, wow, this is frustrating. The temptation to JADE is strong.

So as of last night, I'm a monster again, and I better be doing everything I possibly can to "make things right," and coming to her with my "head in my hands" begging for forgiveness. That is not likely to happen, so I guess this might test the "bless and release" plan.

I'm struggling more than usual with my living situation. I have about 5-6 hours to kill every weekday before I can come back to my office and sleep. There are students and cleaning and maintenance people around and I don't have any good explanation for why I would be there really late every night. So I leave and come back. This is harder when it is cold and sitting outside somewhere isn't an option. I have my usual places to go, and I do a fair amount of just sitting in my truck somewhere. It's not ideal, but I can manage okay. What I can't manage is wandering around trying to figure out someplace I can just exist for a few hours and also trying to read and respond to a torrent of emails and texts. I just can't. So last night I responded early on. I apologized. I asked to apologize in person. I asked to talk in person. She did not want to do that, so I stopped reading and responding. I know that sounds really easy and like a no-brainer thing to do, but it is really hard for me, especially when, as often happens, she latches on to something that I actually do feel bad about doing. I don't know, sometimes I get really struck by the absurdity of the whole situation, and I increasingly feel like I've ventured into pathetic territory.

[Cat Familiar]

Obviously your needs are not getting met on any level. She has seized power through her victimhood and blaming of you. You've allowed that to continue. She's manipulated you with suicide threats and acting out, but notice how having a boundary about the suicide threats made a difference? Are you interested in making additional changes so that your life is easier?

[stolencrumbs]

Obviously your needs are not getting met on any level. She has seized power through her victimhood and blaming of you. You've allowed that to continue. She's manipulated you with suicide threats and acting out, but notice how having a boundary about the suicide threats made a difference? Are you interested in making additional changes so that your life is easier?

Yes,  I am interested in doing that. I'm also not very good at actually doing that. I think I'm fair to middling at seeing the dynamics and the manipulation in play. I'm not so good at doing anything about it.

[Cat Familiar]

I don't know, sometimes I get really struck by the absurdity of the whole situation, and I increasingly feel like I've ventured into pathetic territory.

Let's work on getting you out of "pathetic territory".

You are supporting her, a house, a lifestyle that you don't get to participate in.

What exactly do you want? Do you want to live in your house?

[stolencrumbs]

Let's work on getting you out of "pathetic territory".

You are supporting her, a house, a lifestyle that you don't get to participate in.

What exactly do you want? Do you want to live in your house?

My T asks me that a lot. I don't know. Living in my house is not at the top of my list. Yes, ultimately, I want that, or at least some place to live. 

Mainly I want to not feel like I am on call 24/7. I want to not feel like there is always something else I should be doing for her. I want to not sit around and dread incoming texts and emails every night. I want to not feel like I'm being tested every time I am with her. 

She went out of town for one night about a year ago. She planned the trip and was with a large group of people. It was the best night I have had in a very long time. I did absolutely nothing. It was glorious. I carry stress pretty well, but it reminded me of what it feels like to not have that stress. It's what I used to feel like most of the time. I want to feel like that more than once a year.

I don't feel that pathetic not being at my house. I feel pathetic getting sucked into the 27th email of the night saying the same thing while I'm sitting in a coffee shop less than a mile from my house.

[Cat Familiar]

Mainly I want to not feel like I am on call 24/7. I want to not feel like there is always something else I should be doing for her. I want to not sit around and dread incoming texts and emails every night. I want to not feel like I'm being tested every time I am with her. 

If you look at how you phrased the above, it's all about wanting to not feel a certain way, as you currently do. How can you rephrase these sentences as positives instead of negatives?

She went out of town for one night about a year ago. She planned the trip and was with a large group of people. It was the best night I have had in a very long time. I did absolutely nothing. It was glorious. I carry stress pretty well, but it reminded me of what it feels like to not have that stress. It's what I used to feel like most of the time. I want to feel like that more than once a year.

I'll use the above example to show you what I mean:

I want to feel relaxed and free of stress on a regular basis.

[stolencrumbs]

I think it's probably all summed up as "I want to take back control of my life."

[Cat Familiar]

What keeps you from taking back control of your life?

[stolencrumbs]

What keeps you from taking back control of your life?

Some combination of fear, obligation, and guilt, probably in that order, combined with a lifetime of not placing much value on my own needs, and often just going along with whatever. So fear, obligation, guilt, habit, apathy, inertia (wish I had a 't' word there to turn this in to FOGHAT.) 

[Cat Familiar]

How about "torpor" instead of inertia?

Let's say we could wave a magic wand and you'd be free of the FOGHAT, what would your life look like then?

[stolencrumbs]

How about "torpor" instead of inertia?

Let's say we could wave a magic wand and you'd be free of the FOGHAT, what would your life look like then?

I don't really know. I don't think it would *look* that different. There would be significantly less looking at and typing on my phone. (If I ever get that time machine, on my way back to kill baby Hitler, I'm going to stop off and make sure Steve Jobs never invents the iPhone.) I'd visit my family more, and they'd visit me. I would probably see and communicate with my wife much less. Mainly I think I would be able to put more time, energy, and effort into the other things I do (job, volunteering, hobbies/interests, other relationships) that now get just enough attention to not completely vanish.

[Cat Familiar]

What stops you from doing all that now, other than FOGHAT?

[stolencrumbs]

What stops you from doing all that now, other than FOGHAT?

I think that's pretty much it. If I do X, she'll have a meltdown. Or she might be already having a meltdown, in which case I stick around (or virtually stick around) for it. Or maybe she's not having a meltdown and she might want to see me or want me to do something, so I better be free to do it. Or, yeah, I guess I'd rather be doing X, but I can be okay not doing it. I'll do it later. At some point things will be different, so I'll just keep doing what I normally do. Or she's having a meltdown, isn't that kind of selfish to go do something I want to do? Or, well, it's 5:00, I guess I better send an email offering to do something. That's what I do.   

Some combination of those thoughts are what go through my head.

[formflier]

you could try a boundary about meltdowns.  She can have them... .you can do something else.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how much your life would improve.

FF

[stolencrumbs]

you could try a boundary about meltdowns.  She can have them... .you can do something else.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how much your life would improve.

FF

I don't think I'd actually be that surprised. I'm pretty sure it would improve my life.

[Cat Familiar]

You sound dangerously close to being out of resources. Why not try formflier’s suggestion and let her have her meltdown?

[stolencrumbs]

You sound dangerously close to being out of resources. Why not try formflier’s suggestion and let her have her meltdown?

Good question. I don't know. I suppose this is a glimpse of what it's like to be my T. That's been her suggestion for a long time. And I agree. Then I don't do it. That's the absurdity. I can step outside myself and look at the situation and see the ridiculousness. No, I don't think my email response to the nth email in a downward spiral matters. It's not going to make a difference. I might as well pick up a book. Yep, I see that. I see what it does to me, I see that it doesn't help her, I see the futility of continuing to do it, and then I jump back inside myself and just keep doing it.

[babyducks]

I think Cat nailed it.   You are dangerously close to being out of resources.

You've trained your brain to react and respond in certain ways.    It's a pattern now.  Changing patterns, habits is hard.    Change requires energy, and you are operating on fumes.

when someone decides to run a 5k they don't just start running 2 miles a day.   they start with running from this telephone pole to the next telephone pole.   and then walking.   and when they have rebuilt their energy they run from this telephone pole to the next.

I think focusing on rebuilding your psyche energy so that when you reach the decision point of 'do I answer the the nth email in a downward spiral or do I pick up a book' you can rigourously challenge that habit rather than jump back into yourself and complete the pattern.

so how does one rebuild their psyche energy.     start small.   reward successes.   self care.   self care.   self care.    you've been on call 24/7 for a long time.   it won't be possible to throw a switch and be off call 24/7,  that's too big a leap.     start small - maybe try leaving your phone in the truck - turned off, while you go have dinner.    try "wife I have time to answer two more emails and then I am going to bed".

living the way you do, I have a hard time imagining that you are well rested.   it's normal to be tired, depleted, spent.      it's important that you put more and better gas into your tank.     if you can turn your phone off during trivia night because those are the rules,   you can turn your phone off one other night during the week because that's your night to rest.

what do you think?

[babyducks]

Or she's having a meltdown, isn't that kind of selfish to go do something I want to do?

No,   it isn't selfish.   

It's self protective.

[formflier]

No, I don't think my email response to the nth email in a downward spiral matters. 

Many times you have to "flip" the response.

Such as:  Instead of trying to figure out if you should send the "nth" or "last" response, put way more thought and energy into figuring out if you should send the "1st" response.

Said another way... .you likely can figure out if it's a regular email or the start of a downward spiral.

Or... .if a normal chain just went off the rails.

Many times it's best NOT to completely ignore them, but to give ONE response that expresses shock or confusion on your point... perhaps validates some and lets them know you are going to TAKE TIME to be thoughtful about a further response.


"Oh my goodness... .this is an unexpected turn of events and certainly sounds upsetting.  I'm going to take some time to think this through before responding further.  I'll touch base with you tomorrow.

Best,

Stolencrumbs"

As I just read it again... .I could probably trim it further. 

"Oh my!... .unexpected and upsetting.  I must think about this.  Will touch base tomorrow.

Best

Stolen"

Do you see the thought process used to approach this?  How do these potential emails appear to you?

FF

[stolencrumbs]

Many times you have to "flip" the response.

Such as:  Instead of trying to figure out if you should send the "nth" or "last" response, put way more thought and energy into figuring out if you should send the "1st" response.

Said another way... .you likely can figure out if it's a regular email or the start of a downward spiral.

Or... .if a normal chain just went off the rails.

Many times it's best NOT to completely ignore them, but to give ONE response that expresses shock or confusion on your point... perhaps validates some and lets them know you are going to TAKE TIME to be thoughtful about a further response.


"Oh my goodness... .this is an unexpected turn of events and certainly sounds upsetting.  I'm going to take some time to think this through before responding further.  I'll touch base with you tomorrow.

Best,

Stolencrumbs"

As I just read it again... .I could probably trim it further. 

"Oh my!... .unexpected and upsetting.  I must think about this.  Will touch base tomorrow.

Best

Stolen"

Do you see the thought process used to approach this?  How do these potential emails appear to you?

FF

Honestly, they sound disingenuous, bordering on dishonest. An email going off the rails is among the least unexpected things that happens. I'm also not really asking for time so that I can think about it and respond thoughtfully. And when I don't do that, that'll be a new thing she can be mad about.