No win situation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

 
There are a lot of elements to unpack:
I’ve been dealing with my unpdh’s dysregulation for the past year. Cocaine abuse every 3 month or more often when he would find himself at the dead end and tried to bring himself to baseline. Upon our return from the trip in early Jan he decided that he was obese (not even close to reality) and went on strict diet, consuming 200-400 calories per day. Now, close to 2 months later her lost half of his body weight and upon consulting with our family doctor, we believe that he developed anorexia nervosa. He is obsessing with weighing himself, and when I comment on the fact that he doesn’t have bowel movements for a week (sorry for tmi, just illustrating the shut down of his organs) he brushes me off and tells me to mind my own business. I know where this compulsion is coming from- he lost his business and doesn’t have control over crypto market, so he is controlling his weight. His misery has been spilling over into our family, like a suddenly shook can of beer. D15 is being criticized for her loss at the recent competition “you are disgusting, I was so ashamed and embarrassed to watch you, either you do the craft competitively, or I won’t pay for it” (either you win every time, or I won’t pay for it). He pushed her to the edge so much so, that she was pleading with me to quit a sport that she gave herself for 11 years of her life. No matter what facts I tell her, it seems that his words have a stronger effect on her.
Yesterday he finally snapped on me. In the morning we were discussing sensitive matter, upstairs. It is also a day when we have a helper coming in to clean our home. The helper is shared between us, and another family friends. He wasn’t aware of her being in the house. So we spoke and discussed freely. I was aware, and was cautious of what the helper might have overheard. When we exited the second floor and uBPDh saw the helper, he freaked out. Ran upstairs and summoned me with him. He started looming over me, as if he was going to strike at me. I backed away and open the door ajar, as there were other people in the house. He seemed to stop on his tracks and said that he won’t have coffee and he was taking the car (we now have only one vehicle). I explained that my elderly grandmother needed a procedure, and asked if my mother, who is also living with us could drop him off at work and take grandma to her procedure. He walked out of the house, and I rushed my mom after him, supposedly expecting him to wait for her in the car. My mother returned saying that the car was there, but he wasn’t. When I called his cell he yelled “don’t you dare calling me, forget this number” and hung up. He was clearly distraught about the sensitive matter the helper might have overheard. He walked to work, which is 20 min by walk.
When he returned, also by foot, he said that 1) I have crossed his boundary 2) consequences will follow; I had to decide if 1)I will sign a paper that I won’t drive for 6 months, or 2) sign a paper that I won’t go out for 6 months as a way of punishing me for crossing his boundary.
I followed him and asked “what kind of boundary have I crossed?” He refused to engage with me.
I’m so angry with him, I’m seething with rage. First of all, we didn’t talk loudly or anything out of ordinary, second, even if the helper had heard us, what right does it give him to make such outrageous demands?.
I’m staying away, ignoring him, I didn’t wake him up or rub his feet as I normally do. I feel so angry, I want to verbally attack him, so I’m just staying away until it passes.
I have an anorexic mad man, making his crazy demands on me

[snowglobe]

 
There are a lot of elements to unpack:
I’ve been dealing with my unpdh’s dysregulation for the past year. Cocaine abuse every 3 month or more often when he would find himself at the dead end and tried to bring himself to baseline. Upon our return from the trip in early Jan he decided that he was obese (not even close to reality) and went on strict diet, consuming 200-400 calories per day. Now, close to 2 months later her lost half of his body weight and upon consulting with our family doctor, we believe that he developed anorexia nervosa. He is obsessing with weighing himself, and when I comment on the fact that he doesn’t have bowel movements for a week (sorry for tmi, just illustrating the shut down of his organs) he brushes me off and tells me to mind my own business. I know where this compulsion is coming from- he lost his business and doesn’t have control over crypto market, so he is controlling his weight. His misery has been spilling over into our family, like a suddenly shook can of beer. D15 is being criticized for her loss at the recent competition “you are disgusting, I was so ashamed and embarrassed to watch you, either you do the craft competitively, or I won’t pay for it” (either you win every time, or I won’t pay for it). He pushed her to the edge so much so, that she was pleading with me to quit a sport that she gave herself for 11 years of her life. No matter what facts I tell her, it seems that his words have a stronger effect on her.
Yesterday he finally snapped on me. In the morning we were discussing sensitive matter, upstairs. It is also a day when we have a helper coming in to clean our home. The helper is shared between us, and another family friends. He wasn’t aware of her being in the house. So we spoke and discussed freely. I was aware, and was cautious of what the helper might have overheard. When we exited the second floor and uBPDh saw the helper, he freaked out. Ran upstairs and summoned me with him. He started looming over me, as if he was going to strike at me. I backed away and open the door ajar, as there were other people in the house. He seemed to stop on his tracks and said that he won’t have coffee and he was taking the car (we now have only one vehicle). I explained that my elderly grandmother needed a procedure, and asked if my mother, who is also living with us could drop him off at work and take grandma to her procedure. He walked out of the house, and I rushed my mom after him, supposedly expecting him to wait for her in the car. My mother returned saying that the car was there, but he wasn’t. When I called his cell he yelled “don’t you dare calling me, forget this number” and hung up. He was clearly distraught about the sensitive matter the helper might have overheard. He walked to work, which is 20 min by walk.
When he returned, also by foot, he said that 1) I have crossed his boundary 2) consequences will follow; I had to decide if 1)I will sign a paper that I won’t drive for 6 months, or 2) sign a paper that I won’t go out for 6 months as a way of punishing me for crossing his boundary.
I followed him and asked “what kind of boundary have I crossed?” He refused to engage with me.
I’m so angry with him, I’m seething with rage. First of all, we didn’t talk loudly or anything out of ordinary, second, even if the helper had heard us, what right does it give him to make such outrageous demands?.
I’m staying away, ignoring him, I didn’t wake him up or rub his feet as I normally do. I feel so angry, I want to verbally attack him, so I’m just staying away until it passes.
I have an anorexic mad man, making his crazy demands on me

[Ozzie101]

I'm so sorry, Snowglobe!

All that sounds very difficult to deal with. I can empathize somewhat. I believe my H has a milder form of anorexia (control issues and the effects of growing up with his weight-obsessed, critical mother). He's much better at the moment, but when a medication triggered some weight gain, he was in regular dysregulation mode. It's painful and frustrating to watch and can definitely make the BPD symptoms that much worse. A person doesn't think clearly when they're hungry. Add a personality disorder on top of that and watch out.

I don't blame you for being angry. His demands are ridiculous. Other than staying away, do you have any other plans in place? How are you dealing with your anger?

[highlife]

I agree that hunger amplifies bp behaviour.  My husband has health problems and when he can't eat or go to the bathroom, he turns into a total relentless bp instead of bouts where at least you can get a break in between.  I am new to all of this so I will be interested to read what more experienced members have to say.  You are right his reactions are off the wall, I guess you need to get away to "normal" world with friends or whatever til your head clears and think how his behaviour is text book and he really doesn't have a clue what he is doing.  My husband threatens me too with signing papers when I "step out of line" = stand up for myself.  The high conflict personality - they think they live in a courtroom and you will be punished and they will make sure of it!  The prosecutor.  I read on this site the bp should not be running the relationship because they are sick, and in my opinion, it certainly applies in this case.  I am sorry you are suffering this, you are not alone. As I said, I am new here and I would think there is not much choice but to take a break, look after yourself, be strong, re-read the skill advice on this site and listen to the other members.  It's hard to remember how to react when your feelings are hurt and upset but that seems to be the result that non-bps experience constantly.  Good luck!

[Enabler]

DK,

Sounds like you are handling things differently from before, less rescuing. Sounds like you realise the absurdity of his demands and pushing back on them gently... .and when you do you find he falls over. Well done.

You've held out a gentle and kind hand and he has chosen not to accept help. Neither did her accept the help of his Dr. I don't doubt this is a dark dark place for him. Be kind without rescuing.

How have you handled the situation with your D? I doubt very much that she is processing this in the way you will. Do you talk to her about it? She's 15 and maybe guiding her towards BPD is a way of protecting her head. I suggest discussing with the board before you consider broaching the subject if you haven't already.

Enabler   

[Ltahoe]

I can’t say 100% certain how he feels. You say he can’t control the crypto market, so I’m thinking he was a crypto investors and lost a lot of money, or perhaps he’s a trader and lost a lot of money trying to play the swings. I’m a somewhat into financial markets not crypto per se but crypto has been sort of unique to watch the boom and bust cycle.  Even a healthy adult could become an emotional wreck dealing with situations like that. They say one of the hardest things about speculating/trading is emotions. It’s often the emotions that destroy the traders/investors account not the strategy.

Idk if your H is still interested in trading or investing. If he is perhaps his desire to invest or trade may be what can save himself. Certainly trading and investing in the type of assets he is, is really a game. It’s a game where the most competitive of competitive go to compete for the accounts of others. In all reality if you’re going to compete in an arena like that it’s honestly normal to lose until you understand what you’re doing. Essentially it’s like a sport you will suck in the beginning. So I suppose what I’m getting at is if it’s a game of psychology and sharpness certainly he’s diminishing his own performance by using mind altering drugs and malnourishing his body. This is coming from a healthy individual so I can only imagine what he feels.

Hopefully if he lost money it was money he could afford to lose. Idk even as a healthy individual if I lost a significant amount of money I would want support. Perhaps find out why he’s interested in crypto trading/investing. It might not only be money but within perhaps there were some noble thoughts maybe that can be validated. The statistic is that 90% of active traders investors will lose, so he shouldn’t take it so hard as a personal rejection but be mindful of that if he’s wanting to proceed.

I remember the beginning of last year I was active in some trading forums. It’ll be really hard to explain to non financial people. But a lot of ppl were involved in leveraged assets and short(expecting vix to decline stay low) the VIX as it was a trade that had been making money for some time. The VIX rocketed and I had to see many traders lose their minds along with their accounts. Some professionally managed funds shut down over that too. People get emotional about being wrong and emotional about money two traps ppl that trade/invest face. I’ve been in forums were people become suicidal over losses and are scared to tell their SO and face divorce etc.  Now if someone already has issues regulating emotions, add the emotions of money and being wrong on top of that.

I suppose I’m stuck and normally the advice to not rescue someone and let them sink or swim may work. I think even healthy ppl may need rescuing, support and help to bounce back from something like this my thoughts may be a little different than others here concerning a manner like this but only cause I’ve seen what large losses can do to healthy ppl.

PS

I’m not siding with him and his behavior. Just Stating he might not be able to work this out alone.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m staying away, ignoring him, I didn’t wake him up or rub his feet as I normally do. I feel so angry, I want to verbally attack him, so I’m just staying away until it passes.

It's good that you are keeping your distance while you're upset. In the past, you ignored your feelings and were so desperate to get back in his good graces that you did loving behaviors (massage, sex) for him, even when you didn't feel that way.

In doing that, you rewarded him for behaving badly and he had no consequences for acting poorly toward you. Now you seem no longer willing to continue that.

He is trying to punish you for behavior that he engaged in himself. You knew the cleaner was in the house and you tailored your conversation with that in mind. If she overheard anything untoward, it was likely from him, not you.

Think very carefully, Snowglobe, about what sort of relationship you want to create between you in the future. You've got more self awareness now and you realize that appeasement, as you've been doing the entire length of the relationship, is not getting you what you want.

Perhaps you can save those loving behaviors for times when he deserves it.

[formflier]

Well... .I agree with others there is less rescuing (and that is good).  As expected he is acting out.

Listen... .when he acts out there is still some rushing about on your part... .overfunctioning... .making sure that everyone else's needs are taken care of (I'm not suggesting that procedures aren't important for other people)... .yet there are so many issues flying all over the place... .that leads you to be in the position of pleading with your unreasonable husband to be reasonable.  (i would guess he gets something out of that)

Listen... .I would like to hear about your life... .your progress with your therapist (or getting another therapist)

Let your husband care for his eating habits.  Sounds like he has seen a doctor.  Let them sort it out.

I would guess your husband has figured out the eating is "getting a reaction" from you and has really focused on it now. 

Are you responsible for your husband eating or choice not to eat?

Last:  Whatever you can do to limit the time you talk to your husband is likely better.

Perhaps 15 minutes tops then take a break.

FF

[snowglobe]

I'm so sorry, Snowglobe!

All that sounds very difficult to deal with. I can empathize somewhat. I believe my H has a milder form of anorexia (control issues and the effects of growing up with his weight-obsessed, critical mother). He's much better at the moment, but when a medication triggered some weight gain, he was in regular dysregulation mode. It's painful and frustrating to watch and can definitely make the BPD symptoms that much worse. A person doesn't think clearly when they're hungry. Add a personality disorder on top of that and watch out.

I don't blame you for being angry. His demands are ridiculous. Other than staying away, do you have any other plans in place? How are you dealing with your anger?

Hi Ozzie,
Aside from being worried about his health, which he does in “in my face manner”, for example “look, I only consumed 300 calories today, or look, I have lost 700 gms today” I needed a second opinion. For a man of his fight and build, he is way under his BMI. In fact, as a society we are so stigmatized, if it were me loosing nearly half of my body weight, even for a Nobel cause, as my uBPDh presents it (I want to be healthy and lower my cholesterol) people around me would get worried and intervene. Although our family doctor looked puzzled at “under 500 cal per day” diet, he said that we have to wait and see. This control and obsession is driving me crazy. Obsession with being thin, and control on all of the aspects of our lives. I forced myself to go out, did some grooming and made a nice dinner for the family. Just cause he isn’t eating, doesn’t mean we all shouldn’t. My plan is to mind my own business until he gets to the baseline. If he is nice, I will be nice, if he makes demands, screams or insults me, I leave the room. At this point it’s either nice way, or no way.

[snowglobe]

I agree that hunger amplifies bp behaviour.  My husband has health problems and when he can't eat or go to the bathroom, he turns into a total relentless bp instead of bouts where at least you can get a break in between.  I am new to all of this so I will be interested to read what more experienced members have to say.  You are right his reactions are off the wall, I guess you need to get away to "normal" world with friends or whatever til your head clears and think how his behaviour is text book and he really doesn't have a clue what he is doing.  My husband threatens me too with signing papers when I "step out of line" = stand up for myself.  The high conflict personality - they think they live in a courtroom and you will be punished and they will make sure of it!  The prosecutor.  I read on this site the bp should not be running the relationship because they are sick, and in my opinion, it certainly applies in this case.  I am sorry you are suffering this, you are not alone. As I said, I am new here and I would think there is not much choice but to take a break, look after yourself, be strong, re-read the skill advice on this site and listen to the other members.  It's hard to remember how to react when your feelings are hurt and upset but that seems to be the result that non-bps experience constantly.  Good luck!

Thank you for the support, it is a very troubling situation when yo ideal with male anorexia. Even medical world is reluctant to diagnose or intervene. I have to plead and convince him to have an enema once a week, to make sure that his kidneys and digestive track work, going from a healthy man, who went bm once or more per day. I see him getting weaker, paranoid and more obsessed with weight day by day.

[snowglobe]

DK,

Sounds like you are handling things differently from before, less rescuing. Sounds like you realise the absurdity of his demands and pushing back on them gently... .and when you do you find he falls over. Well done.

You've held out a gentle and kind hand and he has chosen not to accept help. Neither did her accept the help of his Dr. I don't doubt this is a dark dark place for him. Be kind without rescuing.

How have you handled the situation with your D? I doubt very much that she is processing this in the way you will. Do you talk to her about it? She's 15 and maybe guiding her towards BPD is a way of protecting her head. I suggest discussing with the board before you consider broaching the subject if you haven't already.

Enabler   

Enabler,
Thank you for your feedback. We speak almost daily of BPD and it’s effects, she is well versed with symptoms and when uBPDh strikes, I hold her near and explain his behaviour given the criteria for BPD. It is helping her more then my youngest, who can’t seem to grasp the disorder, being ASD and 11, he takes things literally. At a recent social outing he said to our friends who offered snacks “sorry, I can’t eat this, I’m on a diet”. Ideally, all three of us; kids, and me should be in therapy. In reality, uBPDh calls us rotten, spoiled, privileged and entitled. Says that in his time no one had a therapist. And if we need one, he doesn’t want to be in this kind of “crazy family” environment. I would like to start a new thread in parent support group.

[snowglobe]

I can’t say 100% certain how he feels. You say he can’t control the crypto market, so I’m thinking he was a crypto investors and lost a lot of money, or perhaps he’s a trader and lost a lot of money trying to play the swings. I’m a somewhat into financial markets not crypto per se but crypto has been sort of unique to watch the boom and bust cycle.  Even a healthy adult could become an emotional wreck dealing with situations like that. They say one of the hardest things about speculating/trading is emotions. It’s often the emotions that destroy the traders/investors account not the strategy.

Idk if your H is still interested in trading or investing. If he is perhaps his desire to invest or trade may be what can save himself. Certainly trading and investing in the type of assets he is, is really a game. It’s a game where the most competitive of competitive go to compete for the accounts of others. In all reality if you’re going to compete in an arena like that it’s honestly normal to lose until you understand what you’re doing. Essentially it’s like a sport you will suck in the beginning. So I suppose what I’m getting at is if it’s a game of psychology and sharpness certainly he’s diminishing his own performance by using mind altering drugs and malnourishing his body. This is coming from a healthy individual so I can only imagine what he feels.

Hopefully if he lost money it was money he could afford to lose. Idk even as a healthy individual if I lost a significant amount of money I would want support. Perhaps find out why he’s interested in crypto trading/investing. It might not only be money but within perhaps there were some noble thoughts maybe that can be validated. The statistic is that 90% of active traders investors will lose, so he shouldn’t take it so hard as a personal rejection but be mindful of that if he’s wanting to proceed.

I remember the beginning of last year I was active in some trading forums. It’ll be really hard to explain to non financial people. But a lot of ppl were involved in leveraged assets and short(expecting vix to decline stay low) the VIX as it was a trade that had been making money for some time. The VIX rocketed and I had to see many traders lose their minds along with their accounts. Some professionally managed funds shut down over that too. People get emotional about being wrong and emotional about money two traps ppl that trade/invest face. I’ve been in forums were people become suicidal over losses and are scared to tell their SO and face divorce etc.  Now if someone already has issues regulating emotions, add the emotions of money and being wrong on top of that.

I suppose I’m stuck and normally the advice to not rescue someone and let them sink or swim may work. I think even healthy ppl may need rescuing, support and help to bounce back from something like this my thoughts may be a little different than others here concerning a manner like this but only cause I’ve seen what large losses can do to healthy ppl.

PS

I’m not siding with him and his behavior. Just Stating he might not be able to work this out alone.

Ltahoe,
I appreciate your insight. Few things, up until dec my husband ran one of the biggest public mining companies in the region. He built his share from the ground up, invested into it, and as the popularity of the industry grew, sold it for the shares in the public company. He went on to build many more data centres for the same company, managed it, and then was fired. As the crypto market fell into oblivion, so did the shares. He never made back his money. The shares were recently diluted 1:30, to sum up the story, he lost it all. In addition, he was too greedy to sell his profits when they were high, now, it’s 1/20 of its value. I know that he is in pain, and needs help. Yet, I’m not professional nor objective, I already went through a family market crush when he lost all of our savings in 2008. This is my second time reliving the nightmare. He also insists on selling the only asset we have- a matrimonial home. I suspect it’s because he want to chase his losses. Not going to happen. He has to figure out his situation and move on.

[snowglobe]

I’m staying away, ignoring him, I didn’t wake him up or rub his feet as I normally do. I feel so angry, I want to verbally attack him, so I’m just staying away until it passes.

It's good that you are keeping your distance while you're upset. In the past, you ignored your feelings and were so desperate to get back in his good graces that you did loving behaviors (massage, sex) for him, even when you didn't feel that way.

In doing that, you rewarded him for behaving badly and he had no consequences for acting poorly toward you. Now you seem no longer willing to continue that.

He is trying to punish you for behavior that he engaged in himself. You knew the cleaner was in the house and you tailored your conversation with that in mind. If she overheard anything untoward, it was likely from him, not you.

Think very carefully, Snowglobe, about what sort of relationship you want to create between you in the future. You've got more self awareness now and you realize that appeasement, as you've been doing the entire length of the relationship, is not getting you what you want.

Perhaps you can save those loving behaviors for times when he deserves it.

Cat, totally!
This is exactly my plan, I no longer bear the responsibility of his actions. My anger is healthy, as it’s indicating the crossing of my boundaries. I have not said anything I am concerned with, nor can I recall anything that might put as in uncomfortable situation. Therefore it’s all in his head. He knows nothing about the boundaries. Boundaries aren’t the same as punishment. Controlling one’s speech is a boundary, threatening to take away my driving “privileges” and my going outside of the house is an abuse.

[snowglobe]

Well... .I agree with others there is less rescuing (and that is good).  As expected he is acting out.

Listen... .when he acts out there is still some rushing about on your part... .overfunctioning... .making sure that everyone else's needs are taken care of (I'm not suggesting that procedures aren't important for other people)... .yet there are so many issues flying all over the place... .that leads you to be in the position of pleading with your unreasonable husband to be reasonable.  (i would guess he gets something out of that)

Listen... .I would like to hear about your life... .your progress with your therapist (or getting another therapist)

Let your husband care for his eating habits.  Sounds like he has seen a doctor.  Let them sort it out.

I would guess your husband has figured out the eating is "getting a reaction" from you and has really focused on it now. 

Are you responsible for your husband eating or choice not to eat?

Last:  Whatever you can do to limit the time you talk to your husband is likely better.

Perhaps 15 minutes tops then take a break.

FF

Ff,
Latest recap- I’m on a wait list to speak to the social worker, who may, or may not recommend me to join a cbt group. It’s about 6 to 14 weeks long wait, but I’ll take it. I went to a BPD support group (for loved ones), didn’t resonate with me, sorry. Most of the people there are parents, or their loved ones a low functioning. Comparing to the stories I heard there, I felt privileged and actually felt bad to share. It’s scary, but the employment and the fact that I’m propping his public persona make his behaviour look not as bad as if he were objecting himself with drugs and being homeless.
He is getting a reassurance, attention and physical care when I plead and beg for the family.
I’m limiting our interaction to a minimum, thus he doesn’t have an opportunity to fail. Errorless teaching. I’m not acknowledging any paper signing, nor will I revoke my rights for freedoms. In fact, I took my time and groomed myself which made me feel better.
Regarding the doctor- I went alone, describing the symptoms. I need it documented, in case the things get out of hand. I do believe that if he continues the same way, something will happen that will bring on the hospitalization. That’s when the records will come in handy. Due to the fact that he is a male, and ex hockey player, the doctor is reluctant to do anything. All I’m asking for is an Assessment. I’m certain that any blood/urine test will show abnormalities. He is starving himself.
Ff, I’m not religious, but I do hold myself accountable for his well being before something greater then me. I would not let him take his life, so what am I doing now then?. He is slowly taking his life while I just stand and watch. It’s catch 22.

[formflier]

     

I know this is an emotional time.  But if someone wants to (fill in the blank)... .are any of us really in a position to "not let them".

Frankly... .I think you are better off focusing on being kind to yourself, then your kids... and if he is being kind to you, respond to that.

When he does other stuff... .let him know you need space... .and then take it.

FF