He is cheating after all - 5

[Bnonymous]

This is a continuation of this thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334361.0I've been thinking and I am finally starting to find an interpretation that I might be able to settle on and live with.

He cheated. Not for any big reason. Just because he can be impulsive. And as a way of distracting himself from, deflecting, all his negative emotions for a while. He did it like anyone else does, really, for the thrill and the comfort and the escapism, taking a break from himself by being with someone who doesn't know him or have history with him, someone he can make see him however he wants to be seen.

Only... "Losing yourself" is a dangerous game for someone with BPD to play, because they have a hard time holding on to themselves, keeping a stable sense of identity... And he woke up in the morning, couldn't believe what he'd done, and suddenly felt like he'd really lost himself, didn't know who he was, terrifying sense of empty space and uncertainty...

[remember all he was saying about not knowing who he is anymore and being scared]

He thought I wouldn't want him anymore. He thought he'd blown it and I'd never forgive him if I found out.  

Remember when he was denying it just five days before he told me? He was saying that this person was someone who had taken sexual advantage of him while he was out of it on drugs and not conscious and that she was trying to sabotage his relationship with me because she knew how happy we were together and how proud he was of us. And he was saying that he couldn't remember what happened but he knows it couldn't have been consensual because he'd never cheat on me, he doesn't agree with cheating, and he knows that he'd never forgive if it happened to him and he wouldn't risk blowing it like that.

Well, now I think that was a mixture of excuses and projections - he sabotaged it despite the fact that most of him wouldn't want to do that, an impulsive part had won out, and he didn't know how to process that. He didn't know how to process that he had done something that he wouldn't want to do. By that, I mean like: you know like if you eat a box of biscuits when most of you really wouldn't want to do that? when impulse and appetite win out? It's a pretty ordinary thing. But it probably didn't feel that way to him, with his unstable sense of identity; it probably felt earth-shatteringly confusing to him that he had done something he didn't want to do.

So he deflected, projected, spun this story where she sabotaged us, not him. It was something beyond a lie - it was almost a metaphor, a way of capturing, not what happened but how he felt about what happened.

The bit about it being non-consensual probably felt real to him, even though he must have known he wasn't actually assaulted. Because he is very disintegrated and fragmented. He can't hold a sense of "I". If he regretted something he'd done impulsively and felt it was out of character, he may well process that as "the real him" wouldn't have done that, so he must have been in some way "forced" (I know him - I know how his defences operate).]

Then he felt dirty (cos he has issues with sex from past abuse). He kept saying that he felt dirty and he was obviously deeply distressed by it. So... How could he get rid of that feeling? How could he stop himself from feeling dirty and guilty and ashamed? By romanticising it. By telling himself he loved her. By telling himself that if this could turn into a relationship and a Happily Ever After then he'd be able to justify it to himself and feel clean again. That narrative is a cleansing narrative and probably comforting to him, except that, if he doesn't really feel it or want it, part of him will know that and he will fragment further.

It's awfully sad.

Then... The cruelty... Well, I know where that one comes from. We've talked about this a lot in the past. He has an over-developed "conscience" - that's what he calls it; I call it "toxic shame" and it's very toxic, to the point of being potentially lethal (he has a lonnnnng history of suicide attempts).

And he can't moderate or regulate guilt. He can't localise it or keep it in context or perspective. He can't think (like I do about the forwarding his text messages thing) "That was a sh*tty thing I did and I regret it and take responsibility for it. But I know that everyone makes mistakes from time to time, and I'm an okay person overall". He can't do that much anyway - sometimes, when we were talking deeply, he'd approach doing this and it was lovely to see. But it's a skill he was only just learning and really struggles with, and, for the most part, he can't do it.

So he gets all or nothing. He feels his only options are that he either drowns in shame or he completely (and temporarily) disconnects from his conscience. So, when he feels guilty, he drinks lots and takes a lot of prescription tablets and tries to make himself angry instead so that he can turn cold and uncaring and thus live with the guilt. This is a fact about him that is accepted between us; this is something we have talked about a lot over the years. We both know what he does and why there and we were talking to the psych about it the other week.

He made a mistake. A simple, common or garden mistake. But he didn't have the faintest clue of how to handle or process or deal with that. So he did the best he could. And that was this.

And he might feel that it's the only thing he can do at the moment. And I accept that.

And now one of two things will happen. Either 1/ he will come to realise that he's "living a lie" here and that it's painful to him and it will feel so bad and inauthentic that he will eventually confront what's going on for relief from that; the pain of missing me and kidding himself will eventually come to eclipse the pain of the guilt, and he will decide to face things and put things right, OR 2/ it will become the truth, he will come to actually love her, and they'll make a go of it.

This is the narrative I'm settling on. Because it makes sense to me. It is compatible with what I know about him. It lets me keep my sense of who he is constant and doesn't push me to have to change my mind about him or question what we had. This makes sense. And thus makes it all much easier to live with.

[Bnonymous]

And the bit about being drugged was probably a kind of metaphor too. Maybe she didn't give him drugs, but, rather, she was the "drug". Maybe he slept with her for relief from his negative emotions because he has been feeling generally rubbish. Then, the guilt about that made him feel even more rubbish and so he needed relief even more... So he slept with her again. Then felt more rubbish again. And needed relief more etc. And he kind of got "hooked" on that cycle, "addicted" to her... He has a very addiction-prone personality.

[remember the day he told me in front of her, he also texted me privately and said "I am trapped in a situation I can't get out of. I am trapped"?]

All of this makes a lot of sense to me. It is consistent with everything I have seen from him and know about him. And it is consistent with my certainty that he loves me (because I am certain about that, even if people outside of the situation might think I'm kidding myself and in denial - I am certain).

He may well have "trapped" himself to a point where he isn't able to come back from it. And I do need to accept that this may be the case.

But, with this narrative, I have a much better chance of letting go and moving on. Because I don't feel like I'm going mad anymore now - I don't feel that my perceptions are incompatible with reality/the facts anymore - this narrative can consistently hold and combine both my perceptions and the facts/reality as presented to me - it makes sense of both. And that is really all I needed.

[Bnonymous]

I needed this. I really did. I needed it to be able to move on. I don't know if any of you will get that, or if you will see it as obsessing over him and what's going on his head, when I should be focusing on me etc. It really isn't that. It's a way to stop obsessing. I have an answer now - whether it's the "real" or "true" answer or not doesn't even matter particularly - it's an answer that works for me and allows me to live with this and move on. My mind can be at peace now.

And, what's more, it's an answer that will provide me with a way of combining compassion with letting go. I couldn't do that before I got this clear in my head; until then, compassion pulled me to him, made me scared for him and want to Be There for him. Now I have this picture, it's different. Now I have this picture, I can see that he might truly need to continue down this path now he's started walking it; it might genuinely be the best thing for him to move on down it.

It might not, but, if it isn't, then he'll be back soon enough. As I keep saying, time will tell. But... I think, one way or t'other, he is going to work this out for himself. I now think that, in some way, he knows what he's doing, that he's got this, that he's making the decisions that are right for him at this point in time. And that is a HUGE comfort to me. I'm considerably less worried about him now. I think I can trust him to take care of himself the best ways he can.

I can let him go emotionally now. I have what I needed to do that now.

I will still grieve, of course. I will still be hurt and sad and angry and miss him, and probably come here to monologue about that. But...

I'm at peace with it now. This is what I needed to be at peace with it.

[Bnonymous]

I think there is about a 75% likelihood that, the first time they have a serious row, he will be on the phone to me in tears, crying that he shouldn't have done it, she's a horrible, nasty, nasty person, and she took advantage of his vulnerability and he shouldn't have fallen for it, and he should never have left me, because I'm the most lovely, beautiful person he's ever known etc etc.

And - you know what? - because I love this man, because I really, genuinely, deeply, love him... I won't treat that as an opportunity if it happens. I won't take it as gospel and urge him to come straight to me and get back together there and then. No...

I will help him sort his head out. I will help him try and get some perspective, encourage him to think of her point of view, remind him that she will come back when she's calmed down etc. I will remind him that I have faults too. I won't encourage him to split her black and me white.

I will tell him that I love him very much and that, if, when he's had time to calm down and think and talk things through with her, he still feels this way, I will be there. But I will tell him not to rush into anything. I will encourage him to go to her and talk through any problems they're having and see if they can put it right.

I will do that. Because I love him.

It might not happen. This might all remain hypothetical. But, knowing him, I think it's a situation I am likely to confront some time over the next few weeks. So I want to be ready for it, so that I don't just leap up in hope and relief and think he's seen sense and is coming back to me. If it happens, I want to steady and centre him, not pull him to me.

[Skip]

That's a really incredible analysis.  You gave the short version in Part 1 of this series. In essence (paraphrasing), it is YOU that he loves (and you love him) but his mental handicap drove him to do this hurtful/foolish thing. It will pass and you will help him get his bearings again.

A few comments.

1. This mapping of his thought process may be true (in part or even in whole)... but is it beyond "understanding your partner" and into the space of "rationalizing and normalizing highly destructive behavior". You could tell a story like this for a serial killer, too.

2. The parts of your narrative that I would look most closely at are "my certainty that he loves me" and "he will be on the phone to me in tears, crying that he shouldn't have done it". This has three significant elements of co-dependent behavior.

The belief that we are far superior/far healthier than our wounded partner and we will save them from themselves. You sound a bit like a mother talking about a wayward child.   His dependency on me is the same as his love of me. What is the love that you shared all about?   You say that if he does contact you, you will assume the role of coach and help him sort out his relationship with her and make sense of what he should do

3. Your gameplan on what you will say and how you will help him if he contacts you in distress over his current relationship is, in my opinion,  one of the worst things we can do in a relationship - rescue and immediately excuse/even validate our partner destructive behavior at great expense to ourselves.  What would this portend for the future of your relationship should you get back together?

I might encourage you to keep working on the narrative and on what is the type of response (from him and from you) that has enough foundation upon which to reconstitute the relationship, should that time come.

Narrative: He did something of very poor character (drugs and infidelity). He first tried to hide it, then lie about it, and then project the wrongdoing on you rather than face his own wrongdoing. I think this part is accurate.

He feels enough shame that it is easier to move on than try to rehabilitate the situation. I think this part is also accurate.

The part about who loves who and the "insanity defense/rationalization" for all of this is treacherous water. I think it might be more practical/conventional to accept that something was lacking in your relationship and he reached out beyond the healthy bounds of the relationship to get it. Sure, he probably made an impulsive / foolish move that may not stand the test of time, but there was/is an underlying problem in your relationship.

Gameplan: In affairs, the "cheater" often needs what both partners provide... the affair, in essence, meets his needs with two people. This is often why they fall apart when one person is discarded; the other person doesn't provide all the needs. So it is likely he will see this at some point with her. If he tries to involve you back in his life when he is with her, he is following a common pattern of trying to get what he needs from both of you to feel whole.

If his new relationship fails, a rebound is very possible.

Your gameplan, I believe,  accepts and even fuels this pattern.

The conventional wisdom is that to recover things, his new relationship needs to run its course, and then you and he are faced with either a temporary rebound (with the same problem resurfacing) or engaging in infidelity recovery. The latter might be worth investigating here - its different gameplan than the one you have outlined.

I know this is a lot to consider and it more unsettling. The question for you to answer, is what is more accurate.

[Bnonymous]

I know this is a lot to consider and it more unsettling. The question for you to answer, is what is more accurate.

Mine. In short. :-)

I'm trying to be light and friendly here, not dismissive and rude, and I hope it won't be taken the wrong way. I know you mean well and are trying to help and I appreciate the time you have taken with your post.

I did type you a longer and more considered reply. But I realised that was not a good idea. Will DM.

[Bnonymous]

I don't want to say much, because I think it would slip into JADEing.

I may have phrased it badly, but there's no "coaching" involved in this. I help him see these things just by listening as he talks round them and works them out for himself. Sometimes I might throw something out there for him to consider, but he will immediately dismiss it if it doesn't ring true - it's never more than a throwing something out there to keep a conversational flow going. It's hard to get an accurate sense of a relationship and its dynamics from internet posts. I may not always describe things very well, and that's on me. But if you actually witnessed the kind of conversations we have, you would see that they're very respectful interactions between equals.

It wouldn't be painful or destructive to me to have that kind of conversation with him. Maybe it would be for most people, I don't know, but it wouldn't for me. I'm pretty philosophical about things. I don't tend to personalise things very often. If I get honest and open interaction, I'm happy with it, whatever it's about.

I don't experience jealousy - the idea is alien to me. I was hurt by the cruelty, the lies, the suddenness, the complete disappearance, the invasion of privacy etc. I'm not hurt by the idea of him being with someone else - I'm pretty laid back and secure when it comes to such things. I'd be absolutely fine with an open relationship. In fact, I told him at the start that his body was his and, no matter how much he might want or expect me to, I'd never be able to feel possessive about it or mind if he slept with someone else. It was him who was utterly insistent that he wouldn't and couldn't do such a thing - if he'd simply told me in the first place, I'd have said "cool" if he was happy (and I'd have meant it) or "how do you feel about that?" if he seemed distressed or conflicted. These things truly don't bother me, never have.

I don't think of him as a wayward child at all. I think of him as a human-being who is going through a lot and feeling pretty lost and confused at the moment. As happens to all of us from time to time, but more frequently and intensely for those with BPD. It's a respectful and thoroughly eye-level equals view. And I do very much think it's the job of a partner and/or of a friend to help someone through that confusion by being there, not judging, listening, being a sounding board... I don't think that's codependence - I think it's friendship. Maybe many people couldn't be friends with their partners in this way - I can and I was. And it was good and grounding and affirming for both of us.

"His dependency on me is the same as his love of me. What is the love that you share all about?"

Respect and trust were the cornerstone. Also a lot of overlap in worldviews. A lot of laugher. A lot of sharing, of time, of experiences, of confidences. A great deal of adventure and romance and fun. Friendship. But with a heck of a "spark" on top.

"What would this portend for the future of your relationship should you get back together."

I would hope it would portend that, in future, there wouldn't be any of the lies and secrets and covering up stuff - that he'd know he could just talk to me about these things upfront, and then none of the awful car-crash pain for everyone involved this time around would happen next time.

[Bnonymous]

Re looking at my role and what needs the relationship wasn't meeting, this was the very first thing I did. After he sent the text to the wrong person, before he said he'd met someone else etc, I sent him this:

"You're not a bad person; you're just human. I made mistakes too. I think, recently, I haven't let go of past hurts as fully and completely as I should have done. And I think I haven't been able to show you the appreciation that I used to, because I've been too absorbed in my own worries. That's on me, and it's something I regret. If you felt that you weren't wanted and treasured and valued, then it is totally understandable that you would look for that elsewhere. And I am glad that you felt that your needs were important enough to make sure they were met; I'm glad you could do that for yourself. It matters. You and your needs and your feelings matter and I'm glad you know that.

I just wish you had talked to me about this, told me how you were feeling, and given me a chance to put things right between us before you took this step. I wouldn't begrude you seeking satisfaction and appreciation elsewhere - the more of that you have in your life, the better. But the lies and secrets created a wall between us and I found that very hard to live with. I wish you had felt able to talk this over with me, like you do with other important things in your life, and I'm sorry that you didn't feel that you could do that."

But... He'll never know this, because she censored contact from me - she would read the messages but she wouldn't "let" him read them.

[Bnonymous]

I'm talking to myself here, monologuing, trying to work through thoughts.

I said I don't think of him as a child. I remember I also used the example of the teenager who feels free to walk out of the family home and not make contact, because they know that home and the people in it will still be there if/when they decide to go back. I want to clear up any potential misunderstandings about that.

In that example, I wasn't suggesting the teenager was doing anything wrong or in need of guidance or correction or (the externally imposed variety of) boundaries. The metaphor was about attachment. Secure attachment.

It's this that I mean by "love", attachment, not eros and certainly not dependence, but simply attachment. A bond that grows over time, formed by sharing: sharing time and experiences, and bearing witness to one another's thoughts and feelings. A bond that gets internalised so that it's carried with us wherever we go in a way that feels grounding and anchoring but never chaining or restrictive. If attachment is deep enough and secure enough, then someone can walk away from a loved one because they carry a sense of that loved one within them (a kind of object constancy). But, if attachment is deep enough, we are likely to want to "touch base" again soon enough. It's about that kind of security in a relationship (broad sense of the term) that gives us the freedom to kind of dip in and out of it.

What I want from a partner may not be what other people would want. What I expect from a partner may not be what other people would expect. In fact, I have few expectations, because I take people as I find them, accept them as they are, and see human relationships as something quite organic and ever-evolving, and utterly utterly unique and individual... I don't work within any kind of framework of expectations, any kind of social scripts or defined roles...

I also have an ability to step back, look at things from a bird's eye perspective. I can be deeply emotionally invested in a relationship and yet still (genuinely) practice a counsellor-style detachment. I'm one of those people who others will confide in about things they've never told anyone else. Because they sense (and learn) that there isn't going to be any judgement and that I'm not going to co-opt what they tell me and make it all about me. They can kind of talk to me like they might talk to a pet or to themselves - I, as an ego, am removed, and I become just a listening ear, a sounding-board... And it's not a subjugating or sacrificial kind of removal... It's something pretty zen. It's like I am a couple of hundred years old. This is awfully hard to explain...

And I don't have types of love. There is no difference in how I love my mother, my daughter, my online friends, my partner. I don't do as-a-something type love; I just do love. And it's always unconditional for me. It simply is.

Yes, there are romantic and sexual attractions and bonds with my partner that are not there in the other relationships, but I guess I don't really see those as love; they are something else, though they do constitute some of the shared experiences that make up the attachment. But, when it comes to love, it's all the same for me. Love is just love, for me. There aren't different types of it.

I feel like this apple is being judged/assessed on how good an orange it is. And that is a frustrating and isolating feeling that I don't know how to break through.

[Bnonymous]

And there isn't and couldn't ever be, for me, such a thing as "someone I used to love". If I love someone, I love them for life, and that's that.

Yes, I have had a couple of romantic infatuations in my life, and I have no feelings for these people now.

But, if I actually love someone (am attached to and care about someone) that's permanent. And the people become internalised and carried with me. I can have no contact with someone for several years and then Be There for them like there was never any gap. I have friends like that. Not friends as in a social circle, but friends as in people who always have been and always will be people I am bonded to and care about, whether life has pulled us in separate directions or not.

I still love my ex-husband, for example. I have absolutely zero interest in him sexually or romantically, but I still love him.

And I guess I thought (think?) my (ex)partner was like me in this regard. He seemed to be someone like me. Maybe I was wrong about that? Maybe love doesn't mean the same thing to him as it does to me?

One thing this other woman said to me was "He didn't love you. He cared about you." I don't get that. I don't even begin to get that. To me, that's like saying "This isn't a dog; it's a Staffordshire Bull Terrier". I assume what she was driving at was "he's not in love with you". I doubt that he's not, to be honest. But in love is nothing anyway. In love is nothing more than an intoxication, an addiction. It has very very little to do with love.

In fact, we talked about this some months ago, me and him, about the difference between loving someone and being in love with them and he said "with you, it's both; I love you and I'm in love with you".

I accept he could be in love with her. He could be in love with both of us (some people can do that, others can't). He could even have stopped being in love with me. But I don't believe he could possibly not love me, because I don't believe love has an off-switch. It doesn't for me anyway, and I really did think we were kindred spirits there.

And she said "He's besotted with me" and I thought "Even if that's true, what's it got to do with the price of fish?"

I don't think the social world is ever going to make sense to me.

[Bnonymous]

Remember the psych report thing? How I paid for the consultation and then she send gloating texts that he was just using me to get it? And how I sent the report anyway?

Well, at the psych's suggestion, I redacted references to myself with a black marker pen (as neatly as possible). The psych said this was standard practice and no one would bat an eyelid at it and the best way to handle the privacy issues.

Just got a text from the other woman

"We got your letter. You've made a right mess of the report! It's hardly presenstable now is it! You shouldn't have wasted a stamp!"

*rolls eyes*

I replied. I replied saying

"You both need to let me go now. You've nothing to worry about and no need to be insecure. He left someone who loves him to the moon and back for you, so try and trust that and get on with being happy.

And, right now, you and I are just feeding his ego, letting him sit back and enjoy two women squabbling over him. Let's end this now. There's nothing to worry about. x"

I was being diplomatic saying that she and I were doing this - actually, I hadn't engaged with them since the other day, though she was trying to start it up again.

That will be it now. Everything that needs to be said has been said. If they keep trying, I won't engage. If he himself contacts me personally and privately and not in an hostile provoking way, then I will listen and talk. But I have nothing further to say to her and no plans to make any first moves with him. Ball's in his court now. As I see it, he can either come and try to work things out (as a reunification or as friends) OR he can let go and move on - what he won't get to do is try and have his cake and eat it by putting me and her in contact instead.

[AskingWhy]

In my opinion, this appears to be triangulating on the part of your partner.   He is playing you off against his new lover.

Use of drugs and other compulsive behaviours, such as sex, gambling, food addictions and other compulsions are a means of coping with emotional paid BPDs feel.  

Perhaps his new lover is an NPD and is using your H as a narcissistic feed to her ego.  It's common knowledge that BPDs find themselves the most comfortable with NPDs and enablers/nons.

It's really have to step back and analyse a R/S with a BPD as we, as partners, are so close to it.  You are to be commended for your wonderful analysis of the dynamics of what is going on.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, askingwhy.

I definitely won't be used like that anymore. I won't feed it anymore.

To me, it looks like there is an emptiness there which they are trying to fill with drama and conflict, and... It's sad. I don't envy them anymore; I genuinely feel sorry for them now. And that is immensely comforting.

This may just be something I am telling myself for comfort, but... I am now starting to think that they, as a couple, needed the love triangle situation. Because they are really trying to hold on to it. It's all out in the open now, and I am completely gone from their lives; they are free to get on with just enjoying one another and being happy together. But they are, instead, chasing after me. It feels like they can't let go of that love triangle situation, that they are feeling a bit lost without it and are trying to keep it going. I won't give them that.

[formflier]

Can you sum up in one or two sentence what you want the OW to understand?

What are you really trying to communicate?

FF

[Bnonymous]

I'm not trying to communicate anything anymore, and I can't really do a one or two sentence summary, my head isn't that clear, but...

There is so much I wish she could understand... Like, I know him. I know how cruel and exploitative he can be. I know how he hones in on any perceived weakness or vulnerability and uses it to control...

I have read countless books on BPD. But I have also read 'Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men' and, being honest with myself, it fits even better than the BPD ones.

So I know that, every time they have a row, he will play on her insecurities about having been the other woman. He will say "B wouldn't have done that! I should have stayed with B! You'd better watch your step or I will be on the first train to B! I was happy with HER and now I'm stuck with YOU!"

And he won't mean a single word of it. He'll just use it to try and control and hurt her and make her feel inadequate so he has the upper hand...

And I wish I could warn her (though I know that this isn't my place and would be inappropriate and I wouldn't actually do that). And I wish I could prevent him weaponising what me and him had...

What I wanted to communicate in the message? I want her to leave me alone. I want her to keep their relationship their relationship and not try to keep me involved in it. And I want her to focus on them and what she feels they have and not let me be a ghost haunting it. If there is any chance that they can really be happy, then I honestly truly want them to have that chance. And to do that, they need to let me go. They need to let me go for my sake AND for theirs. Trying to hold on to the triangle thing will not do any of us any good. I want her to see that, I guess. And I don't want her to let him play her or use me to make her feel insecure and control her...

I don't want anyone else to suffer like I did. I am genuine about this. If she really wants him and not just the ego-boost of the love triangle set-up, then I want her to concentrate on enjoying that and making the most of it. I want her to leave me alone.

Okay, have walked around to the few sentence summary:

I want her to leave me alone. And I want her to ask herself whether it is really him she wants or just the love triangle situation. And, if it is him, then I want her to feel secure so that he won't have anything to weaponise and use against her.

[Bnonymous]

But I DO acknowledge and accept that none of this is any of my business and that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever that I can (or should) do about it. I acknowledge and accept absolutely that I need to stand back and just let this play out by itself and leave them to it. I completely get that.

I want them to get it too and stop attempting to drag me into it. I want them to get on with their lives and let me get on with mine.

[formflier]

I want them to get it too and stop attempting to drag me into it. I want them to get on with their lives and let me get on with mine.

And what if they don't?

It's nice to want people to do things, yet frustrating to understand people usually do what they do...since it's outside our control.

Can you rewrite the sentence I quoted?  When you do this focus on "boundaries" and what you "control".

My hope for you is that as you sort through rewriting that sentence you understand the power you really have. (hint...I believe you have much more power than you assume you do)

FF

[Bnonymous]

I can ignore them. I can change my SIM if that doesn't work (I took it out for a while and was going to change it, but realised I can't actually afford to put credit on a new phone...)

I can and will stay out of it, no matter how much they try to drag me into it.

I think I get what you're driving at (apologies if incorrect): that I can free myself from thinking or caring about them and what they're thinking or feeling or doing or will do... I get that and I'm getting there. Not there yet (clearly) but so close I can almost touch it...

I'm a big believer in "Man is not disturbed by things, but by the attitude he takes to them". To the point where I think the situation and the facts of it border on irrevelant - it's how I respond to it inside that counts. I know that and am working on it. I'll get there in the end.

[Cat Familiar]

This thread is locked as requested by the OP.