Should I leave?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I get into the same argument over and over and it turns out the same every time.

She always asks if she should leave. She loves me but it is easier by herself.

I am thinking about making the decision for her. I do not want to be with someone that questions if they want to be with me.

Thank you for being my support.

[Granite Chief]

I get into the same argument over and over and it turns out the same every time.

She always asks if she should leave. She loves me but it is easier by herself.

I am thinking about making the decision for her. I do not want to be with someone that questions if they want to be with me.

Thank you for being my support.

[Red5]

I get into the same argument over and over and it turns out the same every time.

She always asks if she should leave. She loves me but it is easier by herself.

I am thinking about making the decision for her. I do not want to be with someone that questions if they want to be with me.

Thank you for being my support.

FWIW…

I probably could have written your post GC, my own uBPDw, Mrs. Red5 has also said countless times over the last eight years… about the same, and I have also thought, "yes, that would be fine with me"… well, it all blew up, on 16 November, and she moved out, -lock-stock-& barrel-…

So status report… I'm freaking miserable, I still love her, I miss her, I'm out of sight of land, lost in the f-o-g… and what's being served up for supper tonight in the ships galley, more "cognitive dissonance", and all the while we are sailing a course steady and true to the sea of "codependence"...

If she called me up (am I blocked?)… and said, I want to come home, it was a mistake to leave, I'd get a big ole' yellow penske truck today…

I feel like I've failed her, I feel like I should not have even let her go (her pride?)…

There is way more to the story… its all there in my "profile/previous posts"…

I thought… that I was done, but I'm not… what she did was awful, but the way I've been handling it (BPD), and her, has also been just as bad…

Yeah, I'm one of those old fashioned "marriage" guys… a "savoir", a "caretaker"… but in a moment of weakness (?), I let her say, "I'm done, I'm moving out"… and I foolishly replied, "either you, or me, are leaving, we cant live together anymore"… so she left.

Every situation is different, every relationship has been through this that and the other… but let me "save you some trouble"… before your let her go off down the driveway in her sisters Ford, pulling a trailer behind full of all her worldly possessions (beware flying foo monkeys)… make damn sure that's what you both want… I'd suggest a "cooling off period".

Don't let pride rule, think before you act, or speak… just my two cents Man,

Kind Regards, Red5

[Granite Chief]

Thank you Red5. I will take your advise.

It is not easy to share stuff like that and I really appreciate it.

[Sandb2015]

I can only agree with Red5 here...

I've given myself ultimatums connected to my own pride, ego and mostly anger and frustration.  After a half a day, maybe more, I feel differently after calming down.

I practice "mindfulness" now and it really helps with perspective where the outside stays there and the "inside mind" which could be a circus at times has more order, enough "order" to not forget myself in this equation.

One of the countless things I've learned so far is I don't have to think or feel anything RIGHT NOW, I don't have to take any action RIGHT NOW, the outside is apart from me however difficult that can be to understand and try to do.  This does work a percentage of the time and keeps me level when I feel pushed into the mental lions cage with my arms tied behind my back.

The word that helps me most and I say it out loud at times...STOP.

[once removed]

details, GC 

what is the argument about?

[Granite Chief]

Okay okay, I am working on the detail part.

My ego is big and I am taking that to heart.

It is the same argument. I was physically abused myself when I was a kid so it is hard for me to be physically affectionate. 

She always says." I need more romance and affection then the average person and you do not even give me the normal amount." " If you stay with me you need to accept this".  I have never had this problem before with other woman. I do not look at my part and always assume it is her BPD. She thinks I am saying she is defective and that is not what I am saying.

As you can see I obsess about the small problem then the bigger picture of my action.

[Sandb2015]

Okay okay, I am working on the detail part.

My ego is big and I am taking that to heart.

It is the same argument. I was physically abused myself when I was a kid so it is hard for me to be physically affectionate.  

She always says." I need more romance and affection then the average person and you do not even give me the normal amount." " If you stay with me you need to accept this".  I have never had this problem before with other woman. I do not look at my part and always assume it is her BPD. She thinks I am saying she is defective and that is not what I am saying.

As you can see I obsess about the small problem then the bigger picture of my action.

As we can see of course! I think this is so prevalent, it is with me.

I've had her words ring and echo in my head over and over to full obsession because of the contradictory behaviors that followed.  I don't anymore, I know im coming out of the FOG ever so slowly.

Not every action or feeling is BPD, it's just human...I look, listen and feel so differently now, I really step away while being more present and less emotional regarding reaction.

[once removed]

She always says." I need more romance and affection then the average person and you do not even give me the normal amount." " If you stay with me you need to accept this".  I have never had this problem before with other woman. I do not look at my part and always assume it is her BPD. She thinks I am saying she is defective and that is not what I am saying.

where does the argument part come in? what do you say in response, and what does she take as you calling her defective?

[formflier]

I'm going to second what Once Removed is asking for...a bit more detail (he said/she said) that gets to the "defective" part.


I'm also hoping you can think about "validation" and give us some examples of when you have tried to validate her.

Where is FF going with this?  I'm going to suggestion focusing less on the actual words and more on the emotion behind the words.  It's NOT about what she says...it IS about what she feels.

Thoughts?

FF

[Granite Chief]

where does the argument part come in? what do you say in response, and what does she take as you calling her defective?

Where is FF going with this?  I'm going to suggestion focusing less on the actual words and more on the emotion behind the words.  It's NOT about what she says...it IS about what she feels.

You both are correct! I do not understand her feelings. When I see her split I get really quite and say I understand she is scared right now. I tell her how I am feeling. She literally got so scared the other day she blacked out and threatened suicide. She told me she does not remember a few hours of the day.

When my tone changes she thinks I am treating her like a defective person. I basically am...I see her as a scared child and do not know how to react. Most of the time I do nothing in hopes she calms down. This generally makes things worse.

[Notwendy]

Part of dealing with our relationships is looking at part in it.

It seems to me she is clear about what she wants from you- more affection. That’s a part that is difficult for you, but it is something you can work on.

Why not give her what she is asking for ? It doesn’t cost anything and it isn’t beyond what you are capable of. She didn’t abuse you when you were a child - so why should she have to deal with those consequences?

It isn’t necessarily a BPD thing. My H had a stoic and verbally cruel father. So he learned to be tough and not affectionate. I don’t have BPD and I also told him I needed more affection. If I got upset about it - his pride kicked in and he was more distant.

I didn’t leave - we have kids - but over time - having no affectionate gestures except for when he wanted sex - I just learned to manage without it. I used to love hugs and snuggling too but over time I just learned to not engage that way. Now it’s my H who tells me it bothers him that I am not affectionate, but being pushed away was very hurtful as I didn’t understand it at the time.

There’s a push pull dynamic to these kinds of relationship. Right now she wants affection. I didn’t understand this when my H pushed me away and took it personally. It’s part of the dynamics. Don’t let this stop you from hugging her if she wants it. Hugs are cheap and easy. To not give them could feel cruel to her.

[formflier]

hen my tone changes she thinks I am treating her like a defective person. I basically am...I see her as a scared child and do not know how to react. 

So...what can you do to change you tone to "something else"?  Ask her what tone she would appreciate.  (note...if you do this...she still may not appreciate it...roll with it for a bit)

How about.."Goodness...this seems very important to you.  I'll be quiet so I can listen carefully"

Then use variations on that.  Don't fess up that you have no idea what to say.  Do you see how this is "slightly" going after her feelings.  It's saying you can see this is a big deal and you want to listen.

FF