What about my other children?

[yoyobutterfly]

Hi, newbie here, just coming to terms with teenage daughter's BPD tendencies. I don't know if she has BPD, but her therapist says she has BPD tendencies, and after recently doing some reading, it certainly fits.

I have 2 other teenagers. Most of my BPD daughter's rages and outbursts are aimed at me. But not all. My other kids love their sister, but are fed up with her treating them badly. They're fed up with her treating me badly. They're confused and angry when she seems to have different rules than they do (I'm focused on her violent outbursts and threats of suicide -- not on whether or not she's doing homework or chores...) She takes up so much of my time and emotional energy that there's sometimes little left for them. I feel so much guilt.

I don't know how to talk my other children about what's happening. I don't know how to ensure they feel safe and supported when it feels like my BPD daughter controls the tone of the household. My non-BPD daughters are frustrated with my inability to make things better and tell me often. When my BPD daughter's happy, everyone's happy and all runs smoothly. When she's not, well...

I'm a single mom doing this alone. My BPD daughter always exhibited some of these behaviors, but they became extreme when, 2 years ago, she disclosed that my ex-husband (her dad) had molested her. That was like a nuclear bomb going off in our family and nothing's been the same. We've had to come to terms with so much. I've had to work through the guilt of not knowing and not protecting my child (I've come a long way with that, I truly believe this is not my fault and I couldn't have know, and I did everything I could once I did know.) But in addition to processing that, I found myself as a single parent, and my children lost their father. We moved to a new place and their lives were upended. Additionally, my ex was always the authority figure in the house and losing that allows for more problematic behavior.

Having 3 teenagers is hard enough. Having 1 of them have BPD tendencies makes everything feel out of control. I have so much pain and empathy for her for what she's gone through, but I also can't allow her to control our lives. I've worked on setting boundaries using some of the techniques discussed here and in Walking on Eggshells, with some success. But sometimes she escalates. I feel like I could handle this, but I feel so guilty when it impacts my other children. When I put my foot down and say "I hear your pain and that you disagree, but I'm making this decision as a parent in the best interest of our family" (and my decision is perfectly reasonable) she has raged, thrown things, threatened to kill herself. The last time that happened my other daughter found her with a bottle of pills and wrestled them out of her hands. This was of course a horrible thing for my non-BPD daughter to witness/have to do and I feel sick to my stomach for her even writing this. My non-BPD daughter then accused me of being a bad mother for allowing this to happen. I just don't know what to do. Everyone is in individual counseling, but we need so much more. I'm so struggling with balancing the needs of my BPD daughter with my other children, and feel like I've lost myself in the process.

It feels good to get my thoughts out. What I really want to ask is, how do others with children navigate this and help their non-BPD children?

Thank you to all of you. Just reading your stories and sharing my own with others who will not judge makes me feel less alone, and that's so helpful to me.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

Welcome and hello 

Did your daughter's therapist share with her that she suspected BPD tendencies?

When she throws things and is out of control, threatening to kill herself, how do you respond?

What do the other kids do? What ages are they?

Maybe we can start with where you are, and what has or hasn't worked in the past.

The most important thing is to be kind to yourself. In dialectical behavior therapy, one of the therapies designed for treating BPD, a core principle is that two seemingly opposite things can both be true at the same time. We can accept that we did the best we could, and also recognize that we can always do better.

[Isanni]

Hi.
I'm sorry you are going through this with little help.

I can't comment on your particular situation but can share what I've been taught and what has started to work. I've been taught to think about it from two perspectives: my kid lacks the ability to manage stressful situations/emotions and needs to build skills in this area; she needs tight boundaries and consequences to know what is expected and to live up to those expectations (she's out of control!)
- hold the kid accountable. as hard as it is, place strict boundaries and expectations (probably like for the other kids) and have consequences when she doesn't follow through - wifi for her is shut off if she doesn't clean up her dinner dishes for example (my kid cares only about wifi)
- call the police - it may take a few times for her to realize this is not tolerated and it's really ___ty on you and the other kids - but there is no physical abuse, no suicide attempt because the police and ambulance will come (they take her to the hospital and hold her for at least the night) - let her know 'I can see that you are very frustrated sometimes and it takes all your will to manage; however, x and y are not tolerated and the next time I will call 911.' She will test you! But you have to follow through each and every time. (This is easier for us as we're in Canada; have no idea what you can do in the US unless you have good insurance.)
- follow through - if you say x is going to happen if she does y, make sure x is doable and follow through - if you reinforce that and you will apply a consequence 100% of the time, she will change!
- check with her that she feels she's getting the right external help to make progress - as hard as it its (cause I'm typically angry), show real caring and concern
- see if there is some dbt for her in your area - methods to self sooth, understand her emotions, use more of her logical mind
- think about an external residential treatment place - if you can afford it - some places are like group homes but offer therapeutic approaches and major boundary setting, which these kids seem to need (I found having an action plan for anything that could come up calmed me and made me more confident)
- if you have a level headed friend or family member, ask if they can stay with you; sometimes the presence of another strong adult helps the kid feel secure, "boxed in" securely
- fake it - be confident, quiet, calm; out of control kids get worse if we get angry; apparently nothing is scarier than a calm, confident parent; I used to feel like I was in a pitch black room with a tornado - anxiety! - but I'm much more calm now.
- don't debate, argue - state the expectation and get out! Cobra - sting and leave. Get the dishes out of the dishwasher and put away by 6. Leave, don't debate, don't remind her at 5:50. At 6 if it's not done, shut down her internet or whatever else you know would be an effective consequence.
- praise her when she gets through a challenging situation using a more mindful approach - I could see that was difficult. how do you feel about it? I don't know about you but I see you're making an effort...
- lots of validating - I still find this difficult so study it frequently
- family fun - get her in situations with you and the other kids where you can share laughs - movie night - and keep connected
- connect with other more experienced mom's - via this forum for example - on facebook or whatever so that you can quickly get reassurance, advice, etc. This will increase your confidence in how you approach your daughter - your confidence and clarity will help sooth her!

Good luck!

[Lollypop]

Hi there Yoyobutterfly

I totally get it. We are caught between a rock and a very hard place. There’s so much to negotiate and the truth is I just tried to do my best, and continue to do so. That’s all we can do.

My mistakes were:

I focussed too much on son28.
I can’t list all the rest as there’s not enough room! Ha!

Consequences:

My younger son felt less loved, second best.
I had an Unhealthy relationship with both sons.
Son28 didn’t trust me.
Younger son resented his brother.
Younger son was scared he had BPD.
I felt I had no life of my own.
I felt lost.

There was so much wrong, I didn’t know where to start.

I focussed on nurturing a happier environment in my home. It helped us all, it brought relief. I stopped criticising, being judgmental or offering opinions. I got light as a fairy, and I talked about anything and everything but problems.. I ignored the elephant in the room. Everybody responded better to the lightness. My family slowly warmed up. I made every interaction as good as I could. Yes, it was exhausting but it paid off.

I understand that this may be a complete contradiction to normal limits and boundaries. I’d already tried using those and miserably failed. I think they failed because at our core, we had an unhealthy relationship.

I learnt better interaction skills here on the forum. It helped me demonstrate to all my family. They started to unconsciously copy my own behaviours. I’d use SET, validate and double validate.

Rightly or wrongly, I shared with my younger son his older brothers limitations. I didn’t refer to “BPD” but did talk about how son28 thinks differently and that he doesn’t do anything on purpose. I explained skewed thinking etc. This was done over a few years, slowly. Importantly, the fact that we are not responsible for how somebody else feels. We have to learn how to problem solve.

Basically, I taught my younger son how to interact with his brother. I felt it was a life skill. I also knew that he’d need to better understand his brother. Younger son learnt how to protect himself and not be taken advantage of. I accept they may never be close, but I have hopes they can have some form of relationship. We laugh together sometimes about son’s behaviours and contradictions - it’s warmly and lovingly done.

The outcome is that my family better understand, therefore they are kinder, thus more forgiving and closer.

It stems from a priority and complete focus on relationship.

My parenting has changed. I’m not bothered if they help with the washing up. But at least now, if I do ask for help they are willing to do so more open heartedly.

My son28 does not rage. So I’ve no experience of this. My approach may not be appropriate for you. But maybe there’s something in here that helps you.

Lastly, this is THE biggy. I put myself first. I show my family what it means to take care of oneself. I hope they learn what that means by me showing them. I went back to college, I spend time with friends (not often but enough to keep me included), I have leisure and interests. I make sure I’m still emotionally connected to my son’s, but I don’t rely on them for my happiness.

It’s not utopia. We have problems. But we are happier.

Baby steps are needed. You’re not alone as you’ve got us. This forum helped me change my life. You can too.

Hugs

LP

[wendydarling]

Hi yoyobutterfly 

Popping by to offer my support with others, you are not alone in this and as you read from Isanni and LP things can and do get better as we learn.

Look forward to hearing more from you, LnL asks good questions.

WDx

[yoyobutterfly]

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I can’t overstate how helpful it is just to hear from others who understand.
Livednlearned – Yes, therapist shared that she suspected BPD tendencies, but was clear that this does NOT mean that she’s diagnosing BPD, or even that she necessarily thinks that my daughter has BPD, just that she has BPD traits and it might be useful for me to conceptualize her issues this way and use techniques that are effective in BPD.
As to your second question – what do I do when she’s out of control – I admit I am coming out of denial. In the past, I have dealt with it myself, and this has been completely ineffective, and unfair to me and my other children. She is larger and stronger than me and she knows it. She gets physical with me and knows that I would never lay a hand on her. This has meant that she can (and has) taken complete control of situations as she can have physical control of situations. I’ve allowed this to happen as I care about her, have empathy for the traumas she’s endured, I’ve blamed myself (as the parent, it must be my fault that my child is acting this way and therefore I have to fix it….), and I would never want to call the police on my own child. I now understand, through reading this forum and BPD resources, that this is not an effective approach. As painful as it will be, if she becomes physically abusive in the future I will call the crisis hotline or police. The last time she threatened suicide, I did call the crisis hotline and they intervened. This was useful, reinforced the seriousness and the consequences of her threats, and I will do so again if needed. An important first step has been admitting to myself that she has been physically abusive towards me. If anyone else had done what she did, I would have had them arrested and got a restraining order. It’s just so hard when it’s your own child.
The other children are 14 and 16. Although I try and keep them out of it when things escalate, they sometimes feel the need to intervene to protect me (verbally, they have never gotten involved physically), or monitor her for signs of suicide (the last time it escalated, she didn’t threaten suicide. When she  escalated I removed myself from the situation. Because she wasn’t getting the response she wanted, she further escalated and got a bottle of pills. My non-BP daughter then found her and wrestled the bottle out of her hands). I understand this is a situation no child should ever be put in, and again, I need to call crisis hotline or police for help whenever it gets physical or there are suicide threats, for the sake of my other children if nothing else.
Yes. I did the best I could. Yes, I can do better.

Isanni – I have been lax with consequences and boundaries because consequences = escalation = physical threats/suicide threats. But again, coming out of denial, I realize that continuing to allow this to occur with only make things worse. I will (and have started to) follow through with consequences. If this leads to physical threats/suicide attempts, I will call crisis hotline or police and we will deal with it.
I’ll ask her therapist about DBT. She has a very good therapist, they’ve been doing EMDR to process trauma, and this has led to real and significant improvements in her behaviors (violence and destruction of property has decreased dramatically, rages have become less ragey, although non-compliance and overall meaness to me and sisters, and control of the household through her anger, continues). It has also led to an overall improvement in her mood and our relationship – for about a year, I had felt like I had lost my child. All there was was BPD behaviors, rage, and anger, and didn’t know who this person was. Now, sometimes, I feel like I have my (smart, funny, fun, independent….) child back – and we also have BPD behaviors. This gives me some hope and optimism that we’re moving in the right direction.
As for connecting with others – you’re right. I’m completely isolated. Denial hasn’t helped, as I’ve rarely shared (other than with therapists) what’s actually going on. This has left me isolated – I don’t want to let people into our family because I don’t want them to see this mess. This has put distance between me and good friends, and my partner. I’m blessed with a lot of people who truly love me/my family, and I’ve been scared to let them see what’s happening because I fear they won’t want any part of it and they’ll judge and/or abandon us. I’m not going to air ALL our dirty laundry, but I need to start letting people in. If they decide it’s too much for them, that’s a reasonable decision on their part, and it’s about them, not an abandonment or judgement of me/my family. I just need to remember that. And I’ll continue to read/post to get support from all of you.

[yoyobutterfly]

I think my previous post was so long I exceeded the word limit and it got cut off! There's so much, I'm just starting this journey, so my apologies for the vomit of thoughts. Here's the rest that was cut off:
Lollypop
Yes, I recognize your “mistakes” in me!  I wonder if, like me, focusing on BP child was in part to try and manage what was happening with the goal of protecting other children. So I hope you’re not too hard on yourself for doing your best in an unimaginably difficult situation. And it sounds like you’ve learned some ways to help everyone.
I hear what you’re saying about nurturing a happy environment. It’s such a balancing act between setting normal limits and boundaries and ensuring the enforcement of those limits/boundaries don’t take over. This is what I’m struggling with, and I think one of the reasons I was lax with boundaries was because it felt like enforcing boundaries led to our lives being consumed by the enforcement of boundaries. In my house, it looks like this: I tell her it’s 10pm, the rule is that she gets chores done by 10pm, she hasn’t done her chores, and I am therefore shutting off her phone until they’re done. This leads to a power struggle where she then refuses to do ANYTHING she needs to for DAYS (school, chores, social commitments….), rages, and constantly tells me I’m petty and all I care about are chores, and she’s mean to all of us for DAYS because she’s not getting what she wants. Sometimes things escalate and we’re in physical violence/suicide threat territory, EVERYONE is a mess and ALL my children are accusing me of not caring about anything except chores and blaming me for not controlling her behavior. All this over daily chores that take about 15 minutes to complete. It’s so much easier, in the moment, for everyone if I rationalize it as “she’s gone through significant trauma and I need to be gentle with her as she works through it.” And I do believe that part of why she’s doing this is because she feels out of control (probably stemming from the sexual abuse she was subjected to and the subsequent loss of a parent) and she is trying to get a sense of control in her life in maladaptive ways. However, what I’ve been doing clearly isn’t working. I think I need to continue to state expectations and consequences, and stick to them. And if things escalate, deal with the escalation.
I also, at the same time, need to take every possibility to connect with BP daughter and other children, and focus on positive interactions. I’ve been working on this, and although exhausting, and although there’s a long way to go, if I look at the big picture, things are improving.
I like what you said about sharing with other children BP daughter’s limitations. I will try this. I especially want to talk to other children about how BP daughter uses fear to get them to do what she wants, how this is not OK, and what they (and I) can do to limit this.
Also, putting myself first. When I first learned that my daughter had been molested, for about a year, EVERYTHING was about supporting my children and making sure they were OK. In a very real way, I felt like I ceased to exist outside of that role. In some ways I think this, along with my denial, was OK and a normal step in the process of dealing with all this. But it’s not sustainable, and it’s not healthy for me or my kids. I have made steps to rectify this. I’ve signed up for a marathon (running is part of my identity and the way I release stress). Exercise was one of the first things to go when I was only focused on children. I’ve found a wonderful partner who is supportive in ways I didn’t even know I needed. He keeps me grounded and constantly reminds me that I’m a good, loveable person who is doing my best for everyone. Up till now, I’ve kept him at some distance because I’m afraid for him to see what’s truly going on, I’m afraid of what my BP daughter will do (she accuses me of being selfish by wanting a relationship, and tells me that that I should be able to get all the emotional support that I need from her and her sisters. This is of course the BP in her talking, her fear of abandonment or someone else becoming more important to me than her….)  But I can’t allow her BP behaviors to control who I or her sisters are allowed to get close to. I’ll have to be mindful of everyone’s feelings, as it’s a complicated situation given what my children have been through with their father. But I deserve to have a supporting partner, and I realize having him around so grounds me which makes me a much better mother.
I apologize for the length of this post. It is so helpful for me to put it all in writing, because telling others, even folks I don’t know on the internet, what I’m going to do adds some accountability. I’ll follow through with what I’ve written above. Also it’s so helpful to get all your thoughts on what’s happening in my life. So long I’ve felt so isolated and like it’s my job to “fix everything” and that I’m a failure because I haven’t been able to make everything better. Putting the above in writing has also been helpful because it reminds me how far we’ve come. Yes, our lives are still a mess in many ways. But, compared to last year:
My BP daughter’s behaviors have improved in that there’s less violence and the rages are less in frequency and scope (though there’s still much improvement to be had in that area!)
MY mental health and self care has improved. For about a year after disclosure, I felt sick to my stomach most of the time, wasn’t eating, was hardly sleeping, and wasn’t doing anything for myself because I was completely incapable of doing so. Everything about me was for my children, but because I lost myself I wasn’t able to always be truly present for my children in the way they needed me to be – I was there but at the same time not there. I now have some happy times, have regained the weight I lost, am in a healthy relationship, am able to focus on truly connecting with my children (rather than just making sure we all survive until tomorrow), and am starting to set and stick to boundaries with my children. I’ve learned that I’m stronger than I could have imagined, and capable of surviving the unimaginable.
In a strange way, this whole process has deepened my relationships with each of my children. We’ve gone through such hardships, but working through these hardships has brought us together. Because of what happened with their dad, and their sister’s behaviors, along with the disruption of moving and losing everything familiar to them, all of my children have had depression and anxiety issues. But I now appreciate and love each of them so much more for who they are. I really have wonderful children, including my BP daughter. When she’s not in the throes of BP behavior she’s smart, funny, and fun. Unfortunately, over the past couple years there’s been so much BP behavior that it’s often hard to remember that.

[Isanni]

It seems like you have things under control pretty well given you are solo and have 3 kiddies to work with.

Yes, enforcing consequences 100% of the time makes the situation worse to begin with. They push and fight. Once they know you mean business 100% of the time (they've had to interact with the police, been in the hospital, have had things taken away), they start to cooperate. But my kid tests all the time. As soon as a little thing happens, I jump. She knows she cannot push it any more.

I hope you find at least one friend or family member to open up to. I did with my brother (he comes when I need him) and my friends (I can vent and get a dose of reality - these kids really need normal parenting with a lot more validation and opps to skill build) and I got more confident and my kid realized it's not just me who's helping her/holding her accountable, it's an army of friends and family.

We had my younger girl's guidance counsellor talk to her. She obviously has seen too much and heard too much but didn't want to see a therapist - saw it as something wrong with her. So we partnered with the school counsellor and she sees her once a week for 15 minutes. That's enough for her to vent and know what's right and wrong and to learn how to empathize with us and her sister. We also focus on her - it's 24/7!

[Lollypop]

Hi yoyobutterfly

I look back in my early days in the forum and see just how much energy I was putting into our coping and healing. I wonder at how I was able to sustain so much for so long. It’s done one day at a time. But, I put myself first - it got me through it. Be gentle with yourself. Everything doesn’t have to be solved today.

I let go of the unimportant stuff and focussed on 2-3 big things.  We all look for stability, something to hold onto to ride the storm. I sought a closer family connection while working on myself.  For instance, if you can only get through your days by running, then that’s your top priority. For me, it was my education and making art. We aren’t superpowers and our kids must learn that. We aren’t here to solve everything.

Your kids look to you to be responsible for everyone’s behaviour, including your BPD daughter.  The only behaviour you are responsible for is your own behaviour. They are responsible for theirs. They learn by your demonstration of good interaction skills. They learn to interact themselves by practise. They and you, Learn to problem solve, changing approach when things aren’t working is so important.

You’ve got it tough. You’re really reflecting on your successes and I really admire that. You’re doing great and they’re lucky to have you. How old are your kids? Mid-teens?

LP

[yoyobutterfly]

Oh, it’s so good to be heard, thank you!

Isani – I stuck to consequences and it worked! Told BP-daughter she would have to do her chores if she wanted to hang out with her friends today. It took a couple days, I was told several times I’m unloving and petty, BUT I stuck to it, reiterated without defending, there was no serious escalation to violence or suicide threats (my fear), chores are done, and the house is relatively happy. Success!

AND, I started the conversation about what’s going on with my significant other. I've kept him at arms-length till now, because I was afraid of what would happen if he REALLY saw, and I was afraid of what BP-Daughter would do if I let him get close to my family (she doesn't like me being in a relationship bc she sees it as a threat to my/her relationship, and I'm still terrified of what she'll do to cause problems...). I didn't speak to him skillfully (me reiterating tearfully several times that “you don’t know how bad it is and if you did I don’t know what you would do!--hmmmm, maybe BP-Daughter isn't the only one with abandonment issues...?) but he is very good at staying calm and helping me. We’re not where we need to be, but we’re on the road.

Also useful to hear how you bring in other people. Sounds like sharing has spread the load a bit so it's not all on you. I also feel like now what I'm teaching my kids is that we need to keep problems secret. This is how I was raised, and not what I want for my kids. I want other people around to know/help my kids as well.

Lollypop – My kids are BP15, non-BP 14 and 16, all girls. They’re at an age where it’s so tough anyway, everything and everyone is crazy even without BPD! Sometimes it’s hard to see where teenage hormones begin and BPD ends. And you are correct. My children need to learn that I’m not responsible for other people’s behavior, including their’s. If I try and control everything, and not take responsibility for myself, what am I teaching them in the long run? This is what I need to keep in mind.

[livednlearned]

Nice job with the boundary setting 

I started the conversation about what’s going on with my significant other. I've kept him at arms-length till now, because I was afraid of what would happen if he REALLY saw, and I was afraid of what BP-Daughter would do if I let him get close to my family (she doesn't like me being in a relationship bc she sees it as a threat to my/her relationship, and I'm still terrified of what she'll do to cause problems...).

An important lesson I learned about this dynamic in my blended family (with a BPD step daughter) is that kids will take the role of being in charge if you let them (especially a BPD step), and even as they fight for it, the thought that they are actually in charge terrifies them. The need for attention is there but the emotional maturity to function as an adult isn't.

If your daughter can prevent you from having a loving relationship, then she is in charge and she knows on some level that's reversing the natural order of things.

My SD21 was 16 when I met her dad, now my husband. One of the smartest things we did (just the two of us) was to see a couples counselor AND a child psychologist to help us (mostly H) with boundaries that SD21 was hell bent on rolling over.  Even though she liked me, she couldn't bear sharing her dad's attention and things went bananas because of it until we set loving and firm boundaries.  

Both therapists insisted on things that seemed small but in the big picture were critical. Like when H came home from work, SD21 would run to the door and give him a bear hug like a toddler might do, making it hard for him to move. He would ask her to stop and she would hug harder. He would hold her arms down firmly but gently and she would fight him to keep hugging. The T said, "You come in the door and tell her no, Let me set my things down and say hi to LnL and then we can hug." Adult relationships came first, then kids.

Same with other kinds of what I considered small things. SD21 wanted to hold H's hand while we were out walking. She wanted to lie in our bed. She would wander into my bedroom and bathroom looking for her dad. H and I would go to bed and she would text him that this and that and a lot of other things were going wrong, she needed him right away. All these seemingly minor things had to stop for SD's wellbeing. The more boundaries we set, the more she came up with ways to get her dad's attention but she also seemed calmer in other ways.

Invariably SD21 wedges herself into what I consider our spousal space and gently we maneuver her back. If she is getting a lot of attention, which she works at like it's her job   we tell her that we're going out for a date night to have time together, with quality time spent focusing on her prior to going out. H does a check in with her before we go, and then tells her he won't be checking his phone until dinner is over, and does she have a plan or skills she can use if her anxiety about things builds. It's like trying to land a plane  

Then we go out and don't check phones.

The point is always to give her attention in appropriate ways and have boundaries in appropriate ways. It's a balancing act for sure and we mess up and make mistakes and forgive ourselves and keep moving forward.

It's never dull  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[yoyobutterfly]

LnL, thanks for the input, your concrete examples are helpful. I haven't really investigated how the little things she does lead to her controlling all of our relationships, I've been so focused on the big things (tantrums, suicide threats).

I think that talking to my significant other about what’s happening, AND intentionally setting boundaries with BP daughter, including around the little things, might get us all closer to where we need to be. Question: I sometimes don't know when to ignore behavior and when to address it. For example, when my significant other comes over and says hi to her, all he gets back is an angry stare. In the moment, do I insist she at least say hi? Or do I ignore unless she's actively causing difficulties (like saying disrespectful things)? And if I DO insist she says hi, what do I do if she doesn't? It's much easier to deal with bad behaviors than the lack of good ones.

Last night and today were so good. Although there were some issues (I've been called a bitch, etc) BP Daughter has been able to calm down, articulate her needs, and accept when she didn't get things exactly her way. She recognizes her behavior is causing her problems in her relationships, talks to her therapist about it, and is making an effort. And it's starting to make a difference.

Question for all: Is paranoia a symptom of BP? It's shocking to me how my daughter sometimes interprets things. For example, once I was putting away grocery bags and she accused me of hiding them, and was angry about it. It's so hard for me to understand what's going on in her brain when putting away empty plastic bags can be twisted into something nefarious.  

[yoyobutterfly]

LnL, one other thought. It's also so useful for me to hear your perspective as a step parent. That you've been willing to work with your husband around this. I've felt like I don't get to have a regular relationship because of everything that's going on. But you seem to be willing and able to work through the difficulties (though I'm sure it's not easy!). This gives me so much hope.

It also reminds me that what he is willing to deal with and can and can't put up with is my significant other's decision -- not mine to make for him. I.e., me deciding that it's unfair to put him through this is unfair to him as it takes his decisions away from him. It's my job to clearly let him know what he's getting into, and his job to decide what he wants in that.

[livednlearned]

Question: I sometimes don't know when to ignore behavior and when to address it. For example, when my significant other comes over and says hi to her, all he gets back is an angry stare. In the moment, do I insist she at least say hi? Or do I ignore unless she's actively causing difficulties (like saying disrespectful things)? And if I DO insist she says hi, what do I do if she doesn't? It's much easier to deal with bad behaviors than the lack of good ones.

One of the things that has helped me is recognizing that SD21 has special needs. She has an emotional disability and as a family we are working on becoming more skilled, with adults working to model what we want for SD21, who will get there, eventually.

She struggles with reality testing, perspective taking, emotion regulation. All of this affects other stuff, like social skills. I spent years working on building trust with her and having empathy, not just for her, but for me. When people feel emotionally safe, they handle things better. So I focused on being emotionally safe. It's counter intuitive, but that meant taking care of my needs so that I could be the kind of caring adult SD21 needs. Your partner may realize that he does best when he spends short periods of time with your daughter, not moving too quickly, and figuring out ways the two of you can support each other as a couple, to sort of repair and recover and get balanced after testing out how it feels to experience things as a group.

He is coming into a family with trauma, and an added complication in your situation is that he may represent (to your daughter) the role of the male figure who abused her. Do you think he would be open to couples counseling, just the two of you, to understand how to navigate boundaries? There are counselors who specialize in blended families, too. I found it was priceless in our situation. We didn't go often, just enough to have a touch stone so we had a shared understanding of what our goals were and how to reach them.

If your partner is offended by an angry stare from a child who was sexually traumatized, he may not be ready for what's around the bend 

If he can handle an angry stare, and knows what behaviors he is and isn't willing to tolerate, then he may be ready. She is testing to see what those limits are and your partner should know that things will likely start to incrementally escalate. That's why seeing a counselor can be helpful. He can ask how best to handle an outburst if it comes his way.

Building trust is slow and steady 

[yoyobutterfly]

Thanks LnL,

I like the idea of couple’s therapy and I might bring that up with him. He’s good at dealing with it, but I do allow her behavior to dictate what I do (not inviting him around as much) and I need to reflect on that. It’s not so much what she does when he’s there or we hang out with him – it’s mostly angry stares and retreating to her room – it’s really what comes later that’s the problem. She’ll be completely dysregulated and wreak havoc for the rest of the night. That’s what happened last night when my other non-BP daughter and I went to his house, and only for about 45 minutes. BP daughter was invited and declined to go, which is fine. But when we got back she caused problems for the rest of the night because she was upset that we had gone, and she accuses her sister of being a traitor for liking him and wanting to hang out with him.

Her/our history makes it so much more difficult. Because of what’s she’s been through, I completely understand that she’s wary of adult men in our lives. I go back and forth between feeling that I deserve to have a healthy relationship and helping her as much as possible deal with that, and feeling that I shouldn’t have a relationship until she’s older because of her trauma. Ugh. I’ve landed on I deserve to have the relationship but I’ll take it slow. In the short-to-medium term this means never leaving them alone together if she’s uncomfortable with that, and letting her decide what she wants from her relationship with him (it’s OK with me if she doesn’t want to interact with him when he’s around, but she can’t make it so the rest of us can’t either).

[livednlearned]

It's a positive sign that your other daughter is willing to hang out with him, and likes him. And that you are both willing to go see him even if your other daughter isn't ready.

Do you think she recognizes that her dysregulations are connected to your attention focused elsewhere?

[zachira]

One of the biggest challenges of being a parent is that every child is different. It is particularly hard when one child needs more help than the others and takes up a lot more of the parents' time and it can feel like the child needing the most attention is the most loved child by the other children. The main job of a parent is to help each child become the best he/she can be. What are some of the special interests and talents of your children who do not have BPD and how can you best support their special interests and talents? It also can help as often as you can to tell your children who do not have BPD that you love them as much as your child with BPD, and that you are at times overwhelmed by how much care your child with BPD requires and wish you could more equally divide your time between all your children.  

[Mirsa]

Hi Yoyobutterfly,

Just want to say hello.  My younger daughter is 15, about to turn 16.  I don't think I realized the incredibly damaging impact BPD DD17 (almost 18) was having on both of us until she moved out.  I can't begin to describe what a revelation the past few months have been for me.  I'm rested, happy, recuperating...finally.  And my younger daughter is also improving...happier, more confident, and our home is a place of peace.  My younger daughter stopped communicating with her sibling around three months ago.  They've had a few text interactions since then, that were shaming and triggering for my younger daughter.  She is starting to get more clear about the incredibly painful impact her sister's cruelty has on her.  I try to stay out of it, but support her in taking space from her BPD sister.  

I do feel a little guilty that I wasn't able to better protect her while we all lived together, but to be honest, I was exhausted, and so mired in the cess of our daily lives, I couldn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak.  At least at this point, I'm able to provide a peaceful and loving home for the two of us, and affirm that younger DD is a wonderful person who deserves love and kindness, it's just that her sister isn't able to give that to anyone, even herself.  

Being a single mother is far more difficult than I ever imagined it would be, and with a BPD DD in the mix, it's practically impossible to have 'balance' and 'self-care.'  I think just shooting for self-compassion would be a good target.  Balance is a nice goal, but I just don't see how it will be even possible with three teenagers in the house and one with a serious mental illness.  I'm super cautious about adding any expectations, even balance/self-care, because my plate at times was just absolutely overflowing, and often far beyond my control.  It was survival mode for a few years there, and an expectation like that would have just stressed me out more to be honest.  

Let's be real:  you are in an absolutely impossible situation and the next few years will be incredibly difficult.  But, as each child turns 17, they will start to mature and drive, and move on with their lives, and it should get a bit easier for you each year.  I think you're probably in the thick of it right now.

Not sure if it helps to say that there is light at the end of the tunnel, when you are still in the tunnel...but we are all happy to sit in that difficult place with you when you need us.

Mirsa

[Mr. Dake]

Our daughter is 16 and her older brother and sister are 21 and 24.  Our 16 year-old daughter had difficult behaviors at a young age.   One of us with go out with our older children.  In their teenage years, our son withdrew to his bedroom or going out with friends, our older daughter lost patience with her younger sister after moving home for her final two years of school after living at college for the first 2 1/2 years.   Our 24 year-old daughter has an improved relationship since moving out.  Our 16 year-old thinks that she has a close relationship with her brother as they have never been actively in conflict.  We are saddened how much this impacted our older children.  Our older children judge that she received more attention and had different rules and expectations.  It was unavoidable, and we did the best we could, but it wasn't what we wanted for our family.       

[stampingt1]

Hi Yoyobutterfly,

Yes, I think paranoia goes along w/ BPD. We only have one child & are totally exhausted from the BPD. Hugs to you w/ 3 teen aged girls!  

[yoyobutterfly]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the responses!

I’ve been away from everything on a work trip and needed to take a bit of a break from thinking about this for a few. Man that was nice, but now that I’m back in it I’m back! So helpful to come back to so many responses

LNL -- I’ve thought more about your suggestions of couples therapy and I think it’s imperative for us. Even just thinking about concrete steps makes me feel like I have more control of things. I’ll be broaching the subject with my partner in the next week and I have no doubt he’ll be open to it. The other day my youngest asked me “are you 2 ever going to get married?” and it just reinforced how much I’ve been allowing my BP daughter’s behaviors to hold us hostage.

LNL – you ask if she recognizes her dysregulation is related to my attentions being elsewhere. I don’t think so. Perhaps I’ll talk to her therapist about this.

Zachira – my oldest loves reading to me. Yup, I have a 16 year old that loves to read her mom to sleep at night (I have to remember in some ways how lucky I am!) Thank you for your question, it just compelled me to text her and ask her to read to me tonight. It’s so easy to forget about these small things

Mirsa – I so hear you. Thanks for the reminder that I’m in an impossible situation. My job isn’t to fix it all, just to do my best for me and everyone.

Mr Dake – yes, it’s so hard when the other kids see different rules, expectations, and attention. We are all just doing the best we can in impossible situations (thanks mirsa!).

Stampingt1 – I’m going to try and not let the paranoia get to me. Ignore the paranoia and focus just on the behaviors. Wish me luck!

As an update, being away for a few has been great and helped put things in perspective. Today I’m going to go running. Tomorrow I’m getting a tattoo! Happy little things. Right now feels good. Tomorrow, who knows….

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Hi yoyobutterfly

I've been following your posts and this really put a big smile on my face:

As an update, being away for a few has been great and helped put things in perspective. Today I’m going to go running. Tomorrow I’m getting a tattoo! Happy little things. Right now feels good. Tomorrow, who knows….

I also enjoy having breaks and can see things more clearly when I'm not in the thick of it. On one of my recent "breaks," I also got a tattoo (and a shampoo and trim at the salon!). Self-care comes in many forms, so glad you're finding ways to put yourself first 

Welcome back!

~ OH

[FaithHopeLove]

What kind of tattoo did you get?

[Miserable Mom]

Great thread for another new mom struggling with the same issues here. I have two older children out of the house and out of the state, oldest daughter age 24 at law school and oldest son age 20 at pharmacy school. Oldest son has seen the progression and several rages prior to going to university. I relocated with daughter age 16 and son age 14 after 7 years in FL back to IL where their father is for parental/financial support when daughter with BPD traits began to spiral out of control, as I myself was recovering from illness. Of course I did not know that at that time, I thought I was dealing with teenage pushback. Oldest two never in any trouble, drug use or any issues of any kind, so it was new territory for me. Things went from bad to worse after relocation. Culture in IL vastly different from FL. It was not known at the time, but now known, daughter rapidly and fully took on a new identity, mostly hidden online, of the gangster rap, drugs, pornography and ghetto culture she was surrounded by. First suspension from school 6 months after relocation resulted in my withdrawing both her and her brother from public school to homeschool, which was new for me. That began now 14 months of pure hell. Yes, my youngest son is in the background while the crazy maker spins out of control. I have been overwhelmed and my time is consumed by the stress and constant doctors, therapies and latest chaos. He is angry, not only for the constant chaos, but the intrusion into his life and the trauma for the family. He recently stated, "I didn't ask for this" after daughter reported family to DCFS with false allegations that he punched her. It is difficult for older children to hear what is happening and they feel angry for the burden on their mother. They have been drawn into the crazy to give interviews to DCFS on the character of their mother. From the outside looking in their, reaction is anger, as it is so very difficult to understand the behaviors of the BPD as not being intentional. I understand the guilt you are experiencing and the helplessness to be there for all children. The serious impact to the other children is traumatic and life changing. Every day I wake up and pick my battles, and the BPD is always front and center. It is a difficult path for a parent and the innocent siblings, a fragile balancing act that more often than not, comes crashing down. Now that DCFS has been involved, the very real threat to my youngest son by the behaviors of his sister are a clear and present danger. To know that she would his life, safety and future compromised in the name of vengeance has taken this to a whole different level. It is amazing to reach out here for support and information. You are not alone.

[yoyobutterfly]

FHLKC – the tattoo is a quote about not going it alone! Seems so relevant at the moment!

MiserableMom – it’s so hard, isn’t it? Sounds like you’re a single mom too? And homeschooling, I would imagine that’s got to be TOUGH.  You, like me, use the word traumatic. And it is. It’s traumatic for our other children, and it’s traumatic for us. And it sounds like what you’re going through is a really difficult, traumatic situation. I hope you’ve gotten some good support and advice here.

I think what I’m most angry about though all this is that there’s no appreciation for the trauma we suffer. For me, the trauma was both finding out my daughter was sexually abused (and how that completely and utterly was like a nuclear bomb to my entire understanding of my world and how my life functions), along with the BPD. In my experience, the entire system sees the parents, and especially the moms, as there only to function as support for their children.

Even when someone asks if I’m OK, it’s tinged with responsibility. They don’t just ask “Are you OK?” In my experience it’s more like “Are you OK enough to care for your children? Because they’re really going to need you, and if you’re depressed/withdrawn/anxiety ridden that’s going to make it more difficult for your children to recover and your kids are going to be more likely to suffer ongoing problems.” Like I need that added guilt and anxiety when honestly sometimes I’m just trying to make it through today without everything going to hell.

This is all so traumatic for us as individuals. That matters. We matter. I honestly felt like I didn’t exist for a while, as EVERYTHING I WAS was what I was doing for/dealing with for my kids. The only place anyone has really asked if I’m OK, and told me it’s OK to think about me, is here, on this forum (thanks everyone!)

Sorry for the rant, apparently I have some strong feelings I’m dealing with!

[yoyobutterfly]

Also, last night I did a crap job of dealing with things. Let myself get pulled in and started arguing/justifying/defending/logic-ing... After doing so well for a spell. Oh well, today is a new day...

[livednlearned]

Also, last night I did a crap job of dealing with things. Let myself get pulled in and started arguing/justifying/defending/logic-ing... After doing so well for a spell. Oh well, today is a new day...

It's helpful to think of it as creating a validating environment vs doing things perfectly 100 percent of the time. You've made a lot of impressive changes in a short period of time, under a lot of stressful conditions and that is to be admired 

[yoyobutterfly]

Thanks for the reminder LnL, I needed to hear that. And you're right. I've worked really hard to connect with all my children and we're closer than ever. I listen to their needs while trying to not let their needs dictate everything (boundaries!) I’ve gotten my kids help. I haven’t had to call the crisis hotline in weeks! (because I haven't needed to). I’ve found support for me. Sometimes I’m even happy!

It's been so helpful seeing this through the lens of BPD. It gives some reason behind it and allows me to have some control, or at least some understanding of what to do. Before I was getting such bad advice from therapist that made things worse (like that I should negotiate with her and explain, well you can guess how that went...). The therapist FINALLY saw what was actually happening when I came in for a session and she witnessed my BP daughter's totally over-the-top rage toward me. That's when she told me to treat it like BPD. I kinda wish she had listened to me for the last year when I was telling her about all this!