Part 2: Same Avoidance. Different Day. No Contact?

[12years]

Mod note:  part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333631.0;all
Ok, so, I think everything is going swimmingly, plans are being made I am writing back emails related to the children's schedules and follow up items related to the house, only 2 email subjects (not too many) and I am verbally attacked last night on the phone. I could tell it was going to be bad conversation as I was disparaged via email when I stated I could not talk on the phone during the day because I was taking a google analytics test that day! So, I called as soon as I could and I was barraged with multiple nasty comments, accusation, name calling of my mother, threats he will stay in the house when she comes (and he has moved out) and he doesn't want her to come because it's over Easter *possibly*, but holidays will change, how does he not know this?

This is another thing I want to ask about, how do you do holidays? I think he thinks he's coming over for Easter dinner? What? How do I say this is not happening?

I had emailed him a few weeks ago about her possible visit. He called my mom the "b" word and said I don't want her to come here. What? His parents were just here over MLK weekend!

And I also email that I am taking the kids over one of the weekends of Spring Break somewhere (there are two weekends), he said "it wouldn't kill him to have the kids gone over one of the weekends," via a text. He says "I see how this is going to be"? Like I am trying to take the kids from him! I thought he was ok with this, so this is why I was confirming plans via email. He can see them that week  of Spring Break or the other weekend, and he may have a big project that week, but, oh well! He just took the kids to LA to see his family and his family came to visit here the other holiday weekend of this calendar year (2 holiday weekend in a row this year of 2019).

And he sees the kids every weekend one night (which I don't like would prefer them with me a whole weekend, but no temporary orders are in place), and he takes them to dinner one night as well, but, he hadn't taken them to dinner since a few weeks as he's been traveling.

I had just figured out the kids "new" schedule to include soccer ( just started) and indicated via email which nights they are free now for dinner (one day later after he asked). In the interim I texted saying I am checking on their schedule and emailed the schedule the next day!

So I am communicating on plans though some are just possibilities (my mom) and going of an "approval" of his to have the kids go somewhere with me over Spring Break. I also got right back on their schedule.

So, I was so "beaten down" by what should just be a "business" conversation, and "ripped a new one," I used the techniques of "if you are going to talk like this, I am going to hang up," that worked but then he started again and said childishly "Well she thinks that I am a horrible person." BUT I didn't bite. I said "you need to calm down and we'll talk later." I also said "I have to go now and thank you." And somehow I felt a bit in control of the conversation for once, when it was a doozy of a conversation with a barrage of nastiness and uncontrollable anger on his part. These things are all a work in progress and I was being polite to call. I said "You are not being polite," as well.

I used my tactics I have recently learned but I literally felt like I was run over by a truck. SO...my question is, how do I go only email contact? Since he won't get the app set up it's really email. He called today and I have not called back. I had no idea he would call today, I don't wait for him to call and thought that he had all the info he needed for now. HOW DO YOU GO NO CONTACT with child exchanges and no temporary orders? Do you tell them "you won't stand for this type of verbal abuse and will end the conversation if it's done again"? And you won't talk anymore on the phone? OR Do you just go no contact? He owns this house and has a key so that makes it scary!

I only text small details. He used to use this as an outlet to disparage me, not sure why he isn't doing it, someone probably told him to watch his texts, (though I have years of nasty texts).

Or if there are phone calls, can I say "I am recording this conversation!" Do you say this or just do it?

HELP!

[12years]

Ok, so now he's asking for a meeting? WHAT? He was just screaming at me and name-calling my mother on the phone last night. I think he's not getting we're separated. Let's communicate via email. I am not your friend. I don't engage in any conversations unless I have to. No texts unless you have picked up the kids or are dropping them off. Can I just say "there is no meeting necessary?"

[worriedStepmom]

I am really proud of you for asserting a boundary during the phone conversation!  You do not have to listen to verbal abuse, and you don't have to provide warnings.  It is okay to just say it - "I am not going to listen to you call me name/disparage my parents/etc, so I am hanging up now.  If you have more to say about the children's schedule, you can email it to me and I will read it tomorrow."

We don't do holidays together.  That is weird and could confuse the kids. 

However, without temporary orders I don't know if you can keep him out of the house.

[ForeverDad]

You do not have to listen to verbal abuse.

I recall how my ex would usually end her calls abruptly as she screamed a me.  I recall the first time I hung up on her.  She called me right back and cursed me out for hanging up on her.  Yet she always did it to me.  She truly believed that I had to obey the rules, but they didn't apply to her.  Go figure.

Yes, disparagement is the word my court used.  It was really peeved at her but sadly we were in and out of court for the divorce and over 5 years after the final decree before the court really listened to what she was doing.  By then I already had legal custody but was back seeking majority time, which I got.

Alternate weekends is the standard in all courts.  That way each parent has a weekend with the kids for whatever activities and a weekend 'off'.  An exception is often made for police, fire dept, doctors and nurses who have to work many weekends.

As for him returning to the house, I think states may vary in handling spouses who have moved out but demand to return at times.  Have you sought legal advice from a family law attorney?  That's one of many good questions for someone local to you.

Interview more than one attorney.  You need to find one who is proactive, experienced with high conflict cases, has many time-tested strategies and is very capable for you in court hearings and trials, should it come to that.  The usual form filer and hand holder lawyer is not sufficient for our sort of cases.  For example, one warning sign is a lawyer who says he always settles and never has to fight for you in court.

Be aware that consulting with lawyers is confidential.  You don't tell your stbEx about what you learn, not even that you're seeking consultations.  (An hour is not too expensive, sometimes even free, you don't pay a retainer until you've chosen a lawyer.)  Don't let stbEx interrogate you.  Yes, if the marriage could have been saved, you would have certainly shared information.  But when it is ending or ended, then sharing TMI would almost certainly be used to sabotage you.  Limit conversations to necessary matters about (1) the children, (2) parenting schedule and (3) appropriate shared expenses such as rent, mortgage, utilities, etc.

That's where boundaries come in.  When I first arrived here, I was confused, because I knew my ex never respected my boundaries.  I learned that the boundaries were for me in determining how to respond to my ex.  This is a typical pattern:  "If you do or don't ___ then I will do or not do ___."  For example, "If you rant or rage on the phone then I will hang up." or "If you rant or rage then I will take the kids and leave to a park, restaurant or movie until you have calmed down."  Frankly, she will never totally respect your boundaries but over time it should reduce the incidents.

[Eleven011]

My ex was very angry with me that I hadn't reminded him.  I asked if he wanted me to treat him the same way I treated the 16-year-old babysitter.  He very self-righteously said yes, and I said, "Okay.  I call her.  I tell her what time to show up.  She says okay.  Then on that day at that time SHE SHOWS UP." 

He never forgot the kids again.

Good luck!  You can figure out a way to do this without driving yourself crazy.

Pure Gold!  I will have to remember this one!