Well, at least I am evolving here

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Note: For context on this post, please see my thread this week https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335638.0

Last night, he started back in, insisting we move if he gets banned from the dog park. I oddly still have not heard a peep from the woman in charge of the dog park. At any rate, of course I told him we weren't moving, that we could not afford to move at this time. He became enraged and said I wasn't supporting him, and said he was leaving, so he grabbed his keys and jacket and ran out the door. A few minutes later, I received a text from him, saying "Goodbye."

While this was all going on, I felt strangely calm. When he slammed the door behind him, I walked into the kitchen, poured myself a small glass of red wine, and went to sit at the dinner table, sipping away and reading. About an hour later, I received a phone call from him. His voice on the other end said, "This is your notice." I said, "Of what?" He said, "This will be the last time you will speak to me, ever. The next time you hear from me will be through my lawyer. I've gotten a hotel room and I will be coming to get my things tomorrow."  I said, "Okay, then. That's your decision." "No, that's YOUR decision!" He screamed into the phone so loudly that I had to hold it away from my ear.

"Well," I said. "You walked out of the house, not me."

"You left me no choice!" he raged through the phone.

He continued to rage at me and scream and rant. I finally told him, "if you're going to scream at me, I can't continue this conversation."

After that point, he started miraculously calming down, and even letting me talk. He came back shortly thereafter, acting like nothing happened ( of course).

Later that night, I was in bed and had just turned off the light and closed my eyes to go to bed, and he came in and started ranting about the woman again. I pretended to be asleep. He went out in the hallway and made a roaring sound, tantruming a bit before coming to bed quietly. Funny, he only rages like that when he has an audience.

Just now he's made a post on Facebook that we are moving to some awful area of the county (not true, obviously). I commented that it was news to me. As I suspected, he will continue to throw this fit day after day to try to get his way. I will hold my ground, obviously, because the idea of moving right now is absurd. I'm just not looking forward to the drama he will cause during my two days of respite from work.

However, I know that I have evolved on these things because they don't stir me up as much as they did even a month or so ago. I think I'm not concerned about him leaving, and I know he likely will not leave, despite what he claims. My main concern is his rage at this point, and keeping him from breaking things in the house. He broke the dog gate with his little tantrum last night. At least I'm not getting emotionally spun up with him, and that helps me a lot.

[WitzEndWife]

Note: For context on this post, please see my thread this week https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335638.0

Last night, he started back in, insisting we move if he gets banned from the dog park. I oddly still have not heard a peep from the woman in charge of the dog park. At any rate, of course I told him we weren't moving, that we could not afford to move at this time. He became enraged and said I wasn't supporting him, and said he was leaving, so he grabbed his keys and jacket and ran out the door. A few minutes later, I received a text from him, saying "Goodbye."

While this was all going on, I felt strangely calm. When he slammed the door behind him, I walked into the kitchen, poured myself a small glass of red wine, and went to sit at the dinner table, sipping away and reading. About an hour later, I received a phone call from him. His voice on the other end said, "This is your notice." I said, "Of what?" He said, "This will be the last time you will speak to me, ever. The next time you hear from me will be through my lawyer. I've gotten a hotel room and I will be coming to get my things tomorrow."  I said, "Okay, then. That's your decision." "No, that's YOUR decision!" He screamed into the phone so loudly that I had to hold it away from my ear.

"Well," I said. "You walked out of the house, not me."

"You left me no choice!" he raged through the phone.

He continued to rage at me and scream and rant. I finally told him, "if you're going to scream at me, I can't continue this conversation."

After that point, he started miraculously calming down, and even letting me talk. He came back shortly thereafter, acting like nothing happened ( of course).

Later that night, I was in bed and had just turned off the light and closed my eyes to go to bed, and he came in and started ranting about the woman again. I pretended to be asleep. He went out in the hallway and made a roaring sound, tantruming a bit before coming to bed quietly. Funny, he only rages like that when he has an audience.

Just now he's made a post on Facebook that we are moving to some awful area of the county (not true, obviously). I commented that it was news to me. As I suspected, he will continue to throw this fit day after day to try to get his way. I will hold my ground, obviously, because the idea of moving right now is absurd. I'm just not looking forward to the drama he will cause during my two days of respite from work.

However, I know that I have evolved on these things because they don't stir me up as much as they did even a month or so ago. I think I'm not concerned about him leaving, and I know he likely will not leave, despite what he claims. My main concern is his rage at this point, and keeping him from breaking things in the house. He broke the dog gate with his little tantrum last night. At least I'm not getting emotionally spun up with him, and that helps me a lot.

[loyalwife]

  You are evolving!

It isn't easy to distance when they are spieling out their guts about how unfair life is to them. His reaction to not getting his way must have worked in the past, but not now. I'm happy for you that you have found this 'peace' in the midst of chaos.

My main concern is his rage at this point, and keeping him from breaking things in the house.

It is like a toddler having a tantrum and anything that they can pick up to throw is fair game. You are reacting in the perfect manner...calm. But when all of this is going on, you never know how far they will go to get our attention. And that is a problem.

I know all too well what it feels like to be told that it is 'over' and that this is the end. Or, that the next step is with the attorney, or that I need to find someone else. It hurts to the core, and they know it. In some weird way, they get satisfaction from knowing that we are hurting too. Every time this happens, it gets easier and easier to disconnect and let them pity pot themselves. I told my children the other day that there was another divorce in the air. They laughed and said, what this time?  I liked your reply when he called and told you, and you said "That's your decision".   I said the same thing recently and kept throwing it back to him "If you're unhappy, leave. You are the one that wants to".  He then said "I'm really going to miss you".  I just buried my head in my hands. Not getting involved in their mess is a science, and evolving is the solution

[AskingWhy]

WEW, I am so glad you are growing and "evolving."  A lot of this, I suspect, comes from understanding that we are not the wrong ones in the R/S with a pwBPD.  The distorted thinking of a pwBPD is crazymaking, but we can move forward with our actions and beliefs not governed by our SOs.

More than 10 years ago, my uBPD H had the ability to whittle me down to tears with name-calling, insults and divorce threats.  Shortly thereafter, I vowed to myself that no man would ever have the power to do that to me again.  Now when H dysregulates, I disengage.  When he rages, I look at him with disgust and then ignore him.  I don't say a word.  I also now laugh at him and walk away.  (I do not recommend this in DV situations.)  I now know it's not about me, but about him.

My H is one of those BPDs who want to appear perfect to everyone, while saving his venom for me behind closed doors.  As such, dysregulating in a public place would never happen. 

I find disengaging to be the most successful coping tool for me, as I don't react at all and he has no power over me.

[formflier]

Something to think about.  What would you do if he did get a hotel and stay gone for a few days?  Would you change locks? 

I'm so pleased that you continue backing away from engaging/being affected by his "drama".

Looking back on this, what could you have done to further protect yourself/disengage?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Awesome that you didn't get triggered!   

[WitzEndWife]

Something to think about.  What would you do if he did get a hotel and stay gone for a few days?  Would you change locks? 

I'm so pleased that you continue backing away from engaging/being affected by his "drama".

Looking back on this, what could you have done to further protect yourself/disengage?

FF

I haven't really thought of what I'd do beyond that, because I know it would likely never go there. But, likely, if it did go there, I'd probably wait a week or so before changing the locks. But, again, this is not something likely to happen. He can't even go a few hours without missing me.

[formflier]

So...what consequences do his words/actions/threats have?

FF

[Fian]

So...what consequences do his words/actions/threats have?

FF

Apparently not much.  Should we start to create consequences when BPD acts out?  That does not sound like standard boundary behavior.

[formflier]

You make a good point, there is a balancing act. 

If he leaves...says he is leaving, never coming back etc etc and is taken seriously by you and you do the normal and rational things that people do when someone moves out...changing locks, reorganizing house for the people are still living there...well..maybe he will realize that his words have consequences.

If he asks to move back in...you can lay out conditions.  He can either meet those conditions..or not meet them and live somewhere else.

Or..keep going the way you are doing it now.  Things have obviously changed in parts of your relationship, it seems for the better.

Has this part of the relationship (storming out) gotten better? 

FF

[WitzEndWife]

The storming out happens about once a quarter, but he always comes right back. This last time was the longest he was ever gone, and that took an hour. So, yes, I would change the locks, but it's not realistic to change locks when the person storms out and is gone for 15 minutes - doubtful I could ever even change the locks that quickly, even if I had them on hand.

I do say, "Okay, that's your choice" when he claims he's leaving. I start talking about dividing property, etc. He immediately starts backpedaling/gaslighting over it. But, I certainly do agree that if he actually did leave for any longer stretch of time, I would absolutely take him seriously. I have very little to lose. He stands to lose a lot. 

[WitzEndWife]

I'll add that I think the consequences are, at this point, that I won't chase after him, and he knows it.

[loyalwife]

It's such a tightrope to cross when the pwBPD acts out, and discards. I've a little (no a lot) of experience with this as my husband has left for a month one time, filed for divorce twice and about once every few months says he's done. It's always the same reaction. But what has changed is how I react.

Like you, at some point you just want it to stop, whether they are here or gone. Your remark about dividing property etc., is a way to get them to think about what is happening. It's easy to use the words, much harder to do the work. I finally decided that each time he did the "done" thing, I'd calmly get to the point and start the process. Otherwise, he has time to think about what damage he could do, either verbally or physically (my husband hides things, like keys etc.). The last time, he took off his wedding ring and told me to sell it etc. I calmly took the ring and put it away. By not reacting you are taking the power away from him.

As far as changing locks, there are some train of thoughts. If you do this, and he has not moved his things out, he could legally break a window to enter. I asked an attorney about this and he said that sure, change the locks, but it could just make things worse. So, I just bolted the door with a chair, put the alarm on and had a can of mace by my bed. With these type of people, remaining calm and keeping your wits is of utmost importance.

I'll add that I think the consequences are, at this point, that I won't chase after him, and he knows it.

YES!  That is the perfect consequence 
By not engaging as you have in the past, and remaining calm (go about your life), he will quickly understand you mean business and he can no longer keep you on a leash.

If he is gone for 15 minutes, it seems he is just trying to re-regulate. Perhaps he needs to just distance himself a bit. Mine does that all the time when he is under stress, I call it the Turtle Syndrome.

It is a choice to stay or leave, for either parties. Most of those that don't understand the Borderline cannot fathom why we stay. Reading through posts, you will see that many leave, finally. I personally understand how and why this happens, and each time you are left it gets easier to disconnect. It's a roller coaster of a life, but it is a choice.

[WitzEndWife]

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Loyalwife. I think you're spot on here. I kind of see changing the locks when the situation is still "hot" as being interpret-able as a spiteful reaction to the spouse walking out. However, if the spouse is gone for a week or two and insists that he or she is going to divorce you, then changing the locks might be reasonable. However, the point that they can legally break a window is a good one as well. Dealing with BPD men can be tricky, especially when they are capable of violent fits of rage.

My uBPDh is VERY attached to me, so he would really have to see me as 100 percent doing something to intentionally harm him to leave. Even then, I'm not sure he would.

I suspect his leaving is more about garnering attention and "extinction bursts" than anything else. If I don't give it fuel, the fire burns out quickly. It's really up to me to decide when and if I want out of this marriage. That's definitely going to take some careful consideration on my part.

[AskingWhy]

My uBPDh is VERY attached to me, so he would really have to see me as 100 percent doing something to intentionally harm him to leave. Even then, I'm not sure he would.

The whole devalue/discard dynamic of the BPD is a tricky one.  BPDs are terrified of abandonment, so devaluing and discarding and its advantages must outweigh the thoughts of being alone--which is what some BPDs cannot even consider.  (My H fits into this category.  He has raged for the last 10 years about hating me and wanting a divorce when he splits.)

[WitzEndWife]

Agree AskingWhy - I think my uBPDh is SO attached to the idea that "marriage is forever," that he doesn't really think leaving is a possibility. I think he likes to threaten divorce because he knows devaluing me hurts me and that he thinks he can get attention or get chased after if he storms out. I'm willing to bet that, after several more storm outs where I don't react and get practical with him about his "decision" to divorce, he'll cut it out and try another dramatic tactic. Usually, if he can't get what he wants through anger, he goes the self pity/self harm route, and then back to anger again.

[formflier]

  try another dramatic tactic.

Or..a healthy one...or "healthier".

I wonder what you could do..or not do, that might increase the likelihood of him choosing a better path?

FF

[WitzEndWife]

Or..a healthy one...or "healthier".

I wonder what you could do..or not do, that might increase the likelihood of him choosing a better path?

FF

I guess sticking with the tactic of not reacting emotionally (easier said than done when I'm tired and worn, but I am getting better). The more I can stay stoic and "just the facts," the more outrageous his behavior looks in contrast, and he knows it. And he'll discover that his need for attention isn't getting met in the way that he wants. If I do it repeatedly, he might get tired of being dramatic and not getting anything in return. I can only guess because I don't know.

[Cat Familiar]

I guess sticking with the tactic of not reacting emotionally (easier said than done when I'm tired and worn, but I am getting better). The more I can stay stoic and "just the facts," the more outrageous his behavior looks in contrast, and he knows it. And he'll discover that his need for attention isn't getting met in the way that he wants. If I do it repeatedly, he might get tired of being dramatic and not getting anything in return. I can only guess because I don't know.

When I first landed here, my husband was exhibiting truly bizarre behavior, such as hitting himself in the head and yelling, "You like this. You hate me."

I was completely blindsided by this and presumed it had something to do with him drinking too much, but I'd never seen anyone drunk doing such things. Actually I'd had very little experience with drunk people at all.

It was such a contrast from the very proper professional attorney I had married who was gracious and socially appropriate. What happened to that guy?

I tried all sorts of strategies. I had briefly gone to grad school to become a therapist, but then realized that I didn't have the maturity or emotional resources to do that, so I tried to use skills I had learned there and things just got worse.

Then I decided to act as crazy as he was when he began to engage in those bizarre scenes and that didn't help either.

I was at my wit's end when I landed here. I had bought and read "Eggshells" but I just didn't see my husband as a pwBPD then, though there were definitely some earlier behaviors that were red flags, before the full-on crazy showed up.

I revisited my BPD theory and found this site, and began individual counseling with the psychologist (who my husband (reluctantly) and I had seen for a year for marriage counseling)  and who told me that yes, he has a personality disorder.

My biggest problem at that point was the anger and resentment I felt about having married a second BPD husband. The first one was such a nightmare and then to have discovered I did it again!

Long story short, once I buckled down and started using the tools and disengaged myself from the crazy--well, it no longer shows up. Yes, he can grouse and be grumpy and have moods, but I just go to my happy place and let him do whatever he needs to do until he starts missing me and wanting to be a more civil and friendly partner.

The downside is that I don't have a husband who is emotionally strong enough to be able to share all my feelings with, although he is improving on that measure too. He has independently chosen to see a psychologist on his own and I see some development in his emotional intelligence. It may be slow, but it is moving in a good direction.

To sum up, my changing my response has made a huge difference in moving our relationship to a much happier place.

[formflier]

  He has independently chosen to see a psychologist on his own and I see some development in his emotional intelligence. It may be slow, but it is moving in a good direction.

To sum up, my changing my response has made a huge difference in moving our relationship to a much happier place.

Wonderful news...and my relationship has played out in a similar manner, although I have these frustrating blips where she goes seriously off the rails, yet as long as I don't engage...it dies out pretty quickly.

FF

[WitzEndWife]

That's really awesome to hear, Cat! I don't know if mine will ever get back to therapy, but I have stopped worrying about getting him there. All I'm focused on is my own sanity and my own reactions to things. It is really hard not to react when he's raging or flinging insults at me, but I'm definitely getting better at staying neutral. I think it just takes practice, like any skill.

And the bonus is, the more I focus on me and my wellness, the more I can attend to my core needs and decide what I want for myself in the long term. 

[Cat Familiar]

I was really surprised that he chose to do therapy again.

A few years ago I involved myself in suggesting he do therapy and even found this psychologist that he sees. At that time, what my husband was concerned about was how troubled he felt about his sisters and thinking that they were judging him for not having children and that he was "not part of the family".

I'd heard the same issues, word for word, for a few years, so I made the suggestion that he see a therapist. He began seeing this guy and I started to see some positive changes and was hopeful, because during that point in time he had been displaying a lot of crazy behavior that was really concerning to me.

I called his therapist and told him that I believed my husband showed some signs of BPD and listed the criteria I had observed. The psychologist was really nice and very receptive to my "cold call" and he thanked me for what I shared.

My husband saw him a few more times and then abruptly told me that he had come to the conclusion that his issues were resolved, so he was quitting therapy.

I was heartbroken, but what could I say? So I said that I was glad that he was feeling better.

A couple of years later when we were out to dinner, he told me that he had called this psychologist and was going to start therapy again. I was really surprised, but I used my "poker face" and said, "Oh yeah, I remember you really liked that guy."

So he's been seeing him for perhaps a year and I do think it's giving him a bit more emotional strength and flexibility.

[formflier]

Cat,

Does he ever discuss with you what they talk about?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Only once when one of his sisters did a very weird manipulative ploy, “giving” him something for his birthday that only benefited her children. He and I talked about it. He talked about it with a friend, and I told one of my friends. We all agreed it was really self-serving, petty and transparent.

The psychologist said, “This doesn’t sound like it’s a gift for you,” a great response, which he loved.

Other than that, he hasn’t shared anything, which is totally fine with me.