She shattered two storm doors last night part 4

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335742.0#lastPost

What do you think is behind your lack of clarity?    Can you share what's going on there?

I don't know. Saturday was bad for her. Lots of texts and emails about being done. At the end of the night she started sending me texts saying goodbye to all the plants that she loves in the garden. She eventually told me she was going to bed. On Sunday I was preparing myself to call the police when things went off the rails again. Then I get the text asking me to go for a walk. I responded almost immediately with an enthusiastic yes. Then we're walking and talking and ultimately have the conversation above. Then today I am back at work. I have meetings in the morning. I am interviewing job candidates in the afternoon. I have a class until 6:30. It's a busy day. There are things planned that I can't just cancel.

I feel like I literally  don't have time to think about anything. I don't hear from her. I ask to see her. I don't hear from her. By the time I hear from her, it's off the rails and back to me not caring, I'm a monster, we're done. etc.

I feel like I have whiplash. I don't know how, in 24 hours, to go from "I need to call the call the police and possibly have my wife committed" to "my wife is opening some door and I need to be ready to walk through it." Quite literally, my job is to think clearly, and I am just not able to do it. I feel like I don't get a chance to do that.

[stolencrumbs]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335742.0#lastPost

What do you think is behind your lack of clarity?    Can you share what's going on there?

I don't know. Saturday was bad for her. Lots of texts and emails about being done. At the end of the night she started sending me texts saying goodbye to all the plants that she loves in the garden. She eventually told me she was going to bed. On Sunday I was preparing myself to call the police when things went off the rails again. Then I get the text asking me to go for a walk. I responded almost immediately with an enthusiastic yes. Then we're walking and talking and ultimately have the conversation above. Then today I am back at work. I have meetings in the morning. I am interviewing job candidates in the afternoon. I have a class until 6:30. It's a busy day. There are things planned that I can't just cancel.

I feel like I literally  don't have time to think about anything. I don't hear from her. I ask to see her. I don't hear from her. By the time I hear from her, it's off the rails and back to me not caring, I'm a monster, we're done. etc.

I feel like I have whiplash. I don't know how, in 24 hours, to go from "I need to call the call the police and possibly have my wife committed" to "my wife is opening some door and I need to be ready to walk through it." Quite literally, my job is to think clearly, and I am just not able to do it. I feel like I don't get a chance to do that.

[PeteWitsend]

Well, we’re off the rails again. I don’t have time to think about anything or respond thoughtfully and deliberately.

Don't beat yourself up over it, and remember these are her issues, not yours.  You could go home tonight and follow all the advice here about listening for empathy and validating her feelings, and you might get her to calm down... for a day or two.  But she'll just be ready to bring it twice as hard after that.  Or she'll think about how you tactfully parlayed her dysregulation, and try a different approach tomorrow... screaming at you while you're in the shower, or calling you 60 times at work, text-bombing, etc. 

[babyducks]

I feel like I literally  don't have time to think about anything. ../../..

I feel like I have whiplash.  Quite literally, my job is to think clearly, and I am just not able to do it. I feel like I don't get a chance to do that.

I understand stolencrumbs.   that makes sense.

For me,  the way it was for me,  if my partner had intense extreme over the top emotions, I was and am on the other end of that spectrum.    my emotions tend to be quieter, slower to surface and I express them in subdued ways.    I found my Ex's emotions to be quite attractive.   Still do actually.    I used to tell my P that I often 'borrowed'  my partner's emotions rather than identify my own.    Hers were obvious.    Mine were pretty buried.

Feeling whiplashed and over run makes sense.     Is there some way we can help you identify other emotions?    It's a given her emotions are chaotic.    It's a given our partners are difficult.    I would suggest that your emotions and thoughts, once you get in touch with them, will be more stable, more reliable and more able to lead you to better outcomes.     

I was given a mantra to help identify my thoughts, ideas, emotions and strangely enough it worked for me.    "What does this moment invite me to do?"    I could almost always answer that question, even when I couldn't tell you what I thought or felt.    Would reframing the question help you?   

being undecided or conflicted, or just tolerating, well we all end up there.    that's a normal place to be.    I would say it's not a good place to linger.     it's not sustainable.     your thoughts, ideas, feelings are important.   they deserve to be expressed.   they will show up somewhere.   I would encourage you to gently turn your focus from her to you.    what you want and what you need and if, should the door open again will you want to walk through or walk away.

hope this helps
'ducks

[Notwendy]

cue a story about an artist who spent his days in his studio while his wife took care of every aspect of daily life...
SCw: "I think that model would work for me."

SCw: "yes, I want that."


This is my interpretation. She wants what the artist has- a spouse who took care of everything.

That story doesn't consider the wife- was she happy doing everything while the husband spent all his time in the studio? Would you be happy taking total care of everything so your wife could pursue her interests without any responsibilities or home duties?

IMHO she wants a caregiver- someone to take care of her feelings, her needs, her wants. I didn't see her thinking or offering to help or consider you. This conversation was all about her from what I read. How about you? Her husband living in the car, working, being concerned about her.

IMHO, I don't think anyone can fix someone else's "crazy". The "total care" idea may sound nice to her, but I don't think it works. This is because her way of thinking is a part of her and that can't be changed by the actions of anyone else. The only way I know of how to address this would be through mental health if she was motivated to work with that.

[formflier]

So...how close were you to calling the cops for a welfare check (or whatever you were going to do?)?

Saying goodbye to things is a hint at what?

Likely a good place to try and lay out in some detail your thought process/actions "getting ready" to call, very much like you did with the detailed conversation with her (good job on that..really helps others understand).

I'm guessing there was a pretty intense inner monologue going on when you were "getting ready".  Am I right? 

Can you share that?

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

So...how close were you to calling the cops for a welfare check (or whatever you were going to do?)?

Saying goodbye to things is a hint at what?

Likely a good place to try and lay out in some detail your thought process/actions "getting ready" to call, very much like you did with the detailed conversation with her (good job on that..really helps others understand).

I'm guessing there was a pretty intense inner monologue going on when you were "getting ready".  Am I right? 

Can you share that?

Best,

FF

Not so much of an inner monologue. More like trying to build up some resolve. Saturday was really bad. The saying goodbye to things was her saying goodbye because she was going to die. Taking stock of myself in these situations, once I'm in it, I just go along and try whatever I can to calm her or get her to tire herself out and go to sleep. Once I'm in it, it seems that I'm unlikely to stop and call the police. So I was in it all night Saturday. On Sunday, I resolved to not contact her. I resolved to not respond to any texts or emails that were off the rails, and that is what I fully expected to get. So I was more or less waiting around all day for the bottom to fall out again. And when it did, I was resolved to call the police at the first threat of suicide. I kept telling myself that it isn't my job to determine whether she is serious, and that I'm not qualified to handle it. I was very tired, and very over trying to manage it all. So that was my Sunday. And then she apologized and asked me to go for a walk. It just wasn't at all what I expected to happen.

[formflier]

  The saying goodbye to things was her saying goodbye because she was going to die. Taking stock of myself in these situations, once I'm in it, I just go along and try whatever I can to calm her or get her to tire herself out and go to sleep. Once I'm in it, it seems that I'm unlikely to stop and call the police. 

A very astute assessment.

How do you think you can evaluate the situation so that in the future..she suggests she is going to die and you call (before getting into it)...almost like a reflex.

I'm trying to step back and prioritize (help you prioritize) the issues that are flying around in your life.

Yes there is a priority to get you to be more emotionally available/responsive when your pwBPD "bares herself to you" (the crazy comments).

however...I'm thinking that suicide issues may need to go to higher priority.

My reasoning is as follows.  If you mess up another "emotional" talk, we can talk you through it and the next one will be better.  If you misjudge a suicide threat...there are no second chances.

Make sense?  Thoughts?

FF

[stolencrumbs]

For me,  the way it was for me,  if my partner had intense extreme over the top emotions, I was and am on the other end of that spectrum.    my emotions tend to be quieter, slower to surface and I express them in subdued ways.    I found my Ex's emotions to be quite attractive.   Still do actually.    I used to tell my P that I often 'borrowed'  my partner's emotions rather than identify my own.    Hers were obvious.    Mine were pretty buried.

I think this describes my r/s pretty well. My emotional EKG would look pretty flat. My wife's has giant peaks and valleys. I don't know that I find the emotions attractive, but she definitely helps me see things in ways I otherwise wouldn't. I think her emotional "vibrancy" helps me tune into things I would otherwise miss--joy and beauty and sadness and etc.

"What does this moment invite me to do?"    I could almost always answer that question, even when I couldn't tell you what I thought or felt.    Would reframing the question help you?   

I like this. I'm not sure I can answer it, but I like that framing.

your thoughts, ideas, feelings are important.   they deserve to be expressed.   they will show up somewhere.   I would encourage you to gently turn your focus from her to you.    what you want and what you need and if, should the door open again will you want to walk through or walk away.

I don't really know what I feel, and I'm not sure how to figure that out. The main thing I feel is scared. I'm scared of what the next text or email or phone call will be. I'm scared that she will die. I'm scared that she will destroy something more important than a glass door. When I see her, I'm scared that I'll do something to set her off. I pretty much operate with a low level of fear all of the time. I'm not really in touch with much beyond that.

Our relationship is completely destroyed. There is no trust, no shared vision, no shared life. There is nothing but badness. I want the badness to stop. I want some calm. I want some peace. Most of the time, I want her to leave me alone, because that seems to be the only way to have any calm or peace.

[stolencrumbs]

How do you think you can evaluate the situation so that in the future..she suggests she is going to die and you call (before getting into it)...almost like a reflex.

I think by not responding at all. If I don't respond when she is off the rails, she will eventually start making threats. I can't recall any time I have failed to respond in her allotted time frame that she didn't start making threats--either to the house, the dogs, or herself. I think my strategy on Sunday is probably the one that will work. Decide I'm not responding and resolve to call police when the threats start.

Yes there is a priority to get you to be more emotionally available/responsive when your pwBPD "bares herself to you" (the crazy comments).

however...I'm thinking that suicide issues may need to go to higher priority.

That makes sense to me, but I can hear my wife's voice in my head saying that if I responded better to her, there wouldn't be any suicide threats.

[formflier]

That makes sense to me, but I can hear my wife's voice in my head saying that if I responded better to her, there wouldn't be any suicide threats.

Do you believe that? 

Very important question...are the suicide threats about what you do/don't do...?

FF

[stolencrumbs]

Do you believe that? 

Very important question...are the suicide threats about what you do/don't do...?

FF

To borrow legal terminology, I think my actions are probably a cause-in-fact. I don't think I am the proximate cause.

Though honestly, I worry about that, too. If I was actually torturing somebody and he decided to kill himself instead of be subjected to more torture, I don't think we would or should say that I'm not responsible for the suicide. I think I'd carry some blame. Obviously that's not the situation I'm in, but it makes me question the idea that a suicide is not someone else's fault. It seems like it can be. I suppose there's some "reasonable man" standard here, and what my wife considers torture is not reasonable.

I don't know. Mostly no, I don't believe that.

[Cat Familiar]

Having experienced suicide threats from my mother, my first husband, and two friends and having had a friend who successfully carried out a suicide, I have a bit of a different take on suicide threats than perhaps some do.

There can be many reasons that someone threatens suicide, but how I look at it is that it's a cry for help and they feel incapable of controlling their own emotions, and secondly, it can be an aggressive manipulation--"If you don't do X, then I'm going to kill myself and it will all be your fault."

I certainly experienced the latter with my ex-husband.

[stolencrumbs]

Having experienced suicide threats from my mother, my first husband, and two friends and having had a friend who successfully carried out a suicide, I have a bit of a different take on suicide threats than perhaps some do.

There can be many reasons that someone threatens suicide, but how I look at it is that it's a cry for help and they feel incapable of controlling their own emotions, and secondly, it can be an aggressive manipulation--"If you don't do X, then I'm going to kill myself and it will all be your fault."

I certainly experienced the latter with my ex-husband.

I think it can be both of those things, too. Or the same person can be doing both things. I think it is sometimes a coping mechanism, too. It is a way of feeling like you have some control over something, and that there is an escape hatch of sorts.

[boatingwoman]

But you don’t know if the escape plan actually will happen.

As I mentioned before, I have a loved one (not BPD) who killed himseld in September.

If she threatens it, if she says goodbye to things YOU MUST CALL 911.

[babyducks]

I am concerned about you stolencrumbs.    I am sincerely concerned for you and your wife.      I am worried that this impasse is going to end badly.    I am troubled by the risks (for both sides) of this stalemate.   I think a tremendous amount of damage is being done to both of you.

On the top of this section/group is a message that is permanently pinned to the top of this board.    Stop the Bleeding.   The cut below is from the first post in that section.

A fire breaks out in your home. You stand before the flames.

“Should I get the fire extinguisher and fight it? Or should I grab my photo album and run?”

You stand there - you can't decide. Not making a decision is a decision in and of itself.

OK. Those who are "conflicted" face a similar, significant decision: Do I try to work with my SO and try to rebuild the relationship? Or do I move on and make a new life for myself?

The longer you wait - often - the worse it gets. Why? Because most likely your relationship is eroding - and who knows what that may bring. And most likely your psyche is eroding - you feel broken, hurt, trapped.

You said your relationship is completely destroyed.   That there is no trust, no shared vision, no shared life. There is nothing but badness.

I don't believe there will be a comfortable route out of that badness.   There is no change that is free of emotional cost.   From what you have written here, it seems unlikely that your wife will be the one to lead you out of badness.    She's too sick.   I think it's up to you to change the badness.   True bravery is being scared  :cursing:less and doing it anyhow.

Some one said to me yesterday that letting go of something that is not good for me is an act of kindness.    I think that is right.

'ducks