Clarity does not always bring peace at first Part 2

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336029.0;all

Frankee, do you want him in your life? Do you want to grow old with him? Do you want to do the work to forgive him and let the past go? Or do you want to let him go?

Sometimes I think I do, but sometimes I think he is just familiar and comfortable.

Sometimes I feel a smidge of hope.  Then he dashes it away.

Old arguments coming back around that I wasn't even aware that were happening until it clicks in my head that I have heard it before.

He is constantly getting upset about my attitude, even when I don't think I am getting one.  He asks me who I am wearing certain clothes for and gets upset when I say no one and they are comfortable and when I don't reassure him like he expects, he gets upset and I am the one with the attitude.

He is getting upset because everything I use to do before, when I let a lot slide, I am not doing it anymore.  

Classic leech behavior of a narcissistic bph.  He got with me because I was so understanding, so compassionate, I wasn't like him, I took everything in stride.  Now that that emotional swimming pool is dried up and I am having trouble, he can't live like this anymore, he can't be with someone like him, he can't be with someone who is defensive, he is talking to someone else about his problems since I am struggling to talk to him, he got with me because I was a certain way and now I am not.

He sees he is getting better.  He expects me to just take all his "issues" in stride.

I see less and less that this is going to work.  It will never be equal.  When I am down, I can't truly count on him.

[Frankee]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336029.0;all

Frankee, do you want him in your life? Do you want to grow old with him? Do you want to do the work to forgive him and let the past go? Or do you want to let him go?

Sometimes I think I do, but sometimes I think he is just familiar and comfortable.

Sometimes I feel a smidge of hope.  Then he dashes it away.

Old arguments coming back around that I wasn't even aware that were happening until it clicks in my head that I have heard it before.

He is constantly getting upset about my attitude, even when I don't think I am getting one.  He asks me who I am wearing certain clothes for and gets upset when I say no one and they are comfortable and when I don't reassure him like he expects, he gets upset and I am the one with the attitude.

He is getting upset because everything I use to do before, when I let a lot slide, I am not doing it anymore.  

Classic leech behavior of a narcissistic bph.  He got with me because I was so understanding, so compassionate, I wasn't like him, I took everything in stride.  Now that that emotional swimming pool is dried up and I am having trouble, he can't live like this anymore, he can't be with someone like him, he can't be with someone who is defensive, he is talking to someone else about his problems since I am struggling to talk to him, he got with me because I was a certain way and now I am not.

He sees he is getting better.  He expects me to just take all his "issues" in stride.

I see less and less that this is going to work.  It will never be equal.  When I am down, I can't truly count on him.

[Frankee]

Listen Frankee

Can we figure out a way for you to STOP listening to this nonsense? 

I would have to imagine your outlook would improve. 

Hard stuff..

How is school?  Isn't it like just a week or two left?

FF

I was doing so good with getting back on the right track emotionally and mentally.   Was feeling pretty good for awhile there.  Then it seemed I lost grip of it.  The only thing I can figure out is the Mardi Gras incident.  It was like, that was a huge turning point for me.  It was almost like something inside of me just broke.

I can't get my anti depressants until Friday, but I am really hoping it helps.  I am my wits end and I need to figure out how to get back to where I was feeling better.  How can I stop listening to the nonsense when I seem to have fallen into this put?  I really need help with this.

[formflier]

  The only thing I can figure out is the Mardi Gras incident.  It was like, that was a huge turning point for me.  It was almost like something inside of me just broke.
 

I agree with you on this.  I remember reading your post.  It was obvious how hurtful...impactful it was.

Listen...when things are "too big" (which this clearly is), I advise people to break it down into smaller steps.  That way..."it's just a step".

What can you/we do to help with the walking away.  I'm sure by now you understand when blather is starting from him...right?

So...he starts to be bellicose and you take a break unapologetically. 

Now..be honest with yourself...in your mind I'm pretty sure you said "But...z...but y...but x"

Can we leave all those things for a next step..for tomorrow?  Next month?

When is school done?  Finals? 

Best,

FF

[Frankee]

I agree with you on this.  I remember reading your post.  It was obvious how hurtful...impactful it was.

Listen...when things are "too big" (which this clearly is), I advise people to break it down into smaller steps.  That way..."it's just a step".

What can you/we do to help with the walking away.  I'm sure by now you understand when blather is starting from him...right?

So...he starts to be bellicose and you take a break unapologetically. 

Now..be honest with yourself...in your mind I'm pretty sure you said "But...z...but y...but x"

Can we leave all those things for a next step..for tomorrow?  Next month?

When is school done?  Finals? 

Okay, so I had this whole reply typed out, but then the thread got locked  I will try to retype everything I remember I already wrote.

I am on the countdown.  I have 11 days left of classes.  An 11 day window where I must focus my attention on classes.

Okay, so Step One. 
I need to diffuse the problem/issue that arises before he starts his blathering.

He has been constantly whining about my "attitude" and "avoidance" of wanting to talk about problems.  I have been feeding into the problems that arise because I have been slipping with controlling my reactions and emotions.  I sometimes forget he still has these underlying problems, they just aren't in the form of raging anger.

I am dealing with an internal struggle because I have reached a point where his "issues" have become to much for me that I can't stand him.  I sometimes think I am hanging on because of the fleeting good times we've had and the plans he has for our future.  I tried to explain I feel tapped out, that I am stretched thin emotional.  It isn't registering with him.

What is the best way to consciously control my reactions/emotions when he "expresses" concerns/problems to me? (even if they are completely absurd/crazy or just plain stupid).

While I was typing this, he called me in a fit.  I took the car to work and he is mad that there is no coffee, no cigarettes, milk and no kool-aid made.  I didn't apologize.  I calmly said I can take lunch at an earlier time and I will stop by the store.  He continues to holler about this and that, screaming at me that I am "double talking".  I calmly said again that I will take lunch a little bit earlier and that I will stop by the store.  He hung up on me three times already.  It is so tempting to fight back with him, but I am working very hard to stay calm.

This is a prime reason of why I can't do it anymore.  I already know when I go to pick him up, he is going to start blathering.  Luckily it will be my lunch break and I can use going back to work as a reason to limit the nonsense.

[formflier]

OK...broad responses.

If it's a repeat blather, perhaps place your hand gently on his arm and interrupt.  "Hey babe..I can see this is really important to you...is there new information you want to share about (fill in blank about issue)

If it's brand new...same thing..gentle arm touch.."He babe..I can see this is important to you...and am I right we haven't discussed this before?"  (wait for answer)

The key is to slow down and reschedule (assuming now is not a good time for you)

OK..shift gears.  Do you see how you state you are "lucky" you have to go back to work and don't have to listen?

That attitude needs to change.  You...Frankee..needs to be able to say that now is not a good time without apology, explanation or anything.  You need to be ok with that, even if he isn't.

The underlying attitude is "hubby...you are communicating important things and those things deserve my best.  I'm not at my best right now, so I'm going to take a break and get freshened up...I'll be available to chat more in (insert time)."

Do you see how you are presenting this...validate his importance..

FF

[Frankee]

So I flopped apparently.   He got upset and instead of calming him, I just tried to help him find the flyswatter he couldn't find.  Then it turns into my fault for not doing what I said I would do.  I think he is referring to trying to controlling the situation before he explodes.  Yet he got mad, but didn't completely explode.  He's still mad I didn't help.  It's a catch 22.  He was able to regulate himself to not completely exploding, but mad that I didn't do anything to help.

I try to show empathy and acknowledge what I did wrong.  He doesn't want to hear it.  He doesn't give a $hit, I shouldn't have to "try" to want to be with them, He's tired of it, he doesn't believe me.

Hm.  Now I am starting to wonder if this is a ploy.  He did say before that I was "all over it" when he was an - hole.  Now I am not sure how I want to handle this.  It may be a way to get me to act a certain way because he thinks I am more loving when he is a jerk.

[sweetheart]

Frankee the key for you as I read, is learning how to emotionally detach in the face of his reactions. Is there a way that you can let go of constantly analysing what you said, he said, did, did not do, and just accept that’s the way he’s going to respond anyway.

His responses to things are not about you, they are about him and him only. They only become about you, if you allow them to.

So the flyswatter scenario is a good example of being damned if you do, damned if you don’t. A perfect case of a double bind, you loose either way. I imagine this dynamic is usual in the relationship.

When my husband looses things, and he does a lot, in the past I would have been right there trying to sort it. And then of course when he couldn’t find what he was looking for it would be my fault. It took me a good few years to stop my part in this, but now if he’s lost something I don’t help him look. If he asks me do I know where the item is, I say no (unless of course I do know) and carry on with what I’m doing.
If my h then wants to offload his frustration on me, I just say ‘I’m sorry you can’t find xyz...’ and excuse myself and carry on with what I’m doing.

Stop constantly trying to analyse the situation;  is it a ploy, is it this, is it that...this way crazy lies for you. The bottom line is you don’t know and it doesn’t matter because what matters is disentangling yourself from this thought process so that when your husband dysregulates, you can be detached and not triggered.

[Cat Familiar]

He got upset and instead of calming him, I just tried to help him find the flyswatter he couldn't find.  

He's responsible for his own upset feelings. Helping him look for the flyswatter was an act of kindness on your part.

Then it turns into my fault for not doing what I said I would do.  I think he is referring to trying to controlling the situation before he explodes.  Yet he got mad, but didn't completely explode.  He's still mad I didn't help.  It's a catch 22.  He was able to regulate himself to not completely exploding, but mad that I didn't do anything to help.

It's not your responsibility to control the situation before he explodes. That's his business and he and only he is responsible for controlling his emotions.

I try to show empathy and acknowledge what I did wrong.

If what you did "wrong" was not help him to control his emotions--again--that's his responsibility. You did nothing wrong.

It may be a way to get me to act a certain way because he thinks I am more loving when he is a jerk.

He's accustomed to manipulating you through Fear Obligation and Guilt.

sweetheart has some excellent advice. Life becomes a lot easier when we don't constantly analyze what we've said and done and we accept that our pwBPD is responsible for his/her own behavior and emotions.

[formflier]

Frankee

Can you do some word for word when he "switched" and tried to make it your responsibility.


I think we can coach YOU to a much better outcome for YOU...in that situation.

FF

[Frankee]

I appreciate the responses.  I felt my last post was a little scattered.  I had only a short time frame to post before he returned from the shower.

So the biggest thing I need to sort out is my response.  How quickly he escalated and how quickly he came down and said it was my fault, was probably a matter of minutes.  His issue is, he says he shouldn't have to "tell me" or "say something" for me to help.  Even as I type that, I realize how retarded that statement sounds.

Okay, so my situation.  I have 8 days left.  I have got my grades to where I will not lose my financial aid.  Means, I have to keep focus on my last three tests and assignment.  I think my antidepressants have left me ill feeling in the mornings.  A challenge I did not anticipate.

Here recently, the biggest thing I have been able to tell between us.  When I have a meltdown and get angry, it's real emotions.  I am not doing it for attention or sympathy.  I do it because I have reached a breaking point.  As a matter of fact, I want to be as far away from him as possible.  When he has a meltdown or gets angry, he automatically wants me to comfort him, he wants the attention, he wants me to tell him that he is allowed to have "emotions".

Word for word.  It was about a dirty house and flies.  He couldn't find the flyswatter.  He said ya'll lose everything (kids had been playing with it).  They broke one and there was one left.  He said, it's not one of those crackhead things you do where you know you've lost it and pretend to look for it.  Replied calmly, no.  We must have done something with it.  We must have thrown it away or lost it.  That's where he spun it to flip it on us that we are a bunch of liars and I saw him getting upset and I just observed.  The rest was gibber gabber after that.

[Frankee]

I was talking to my girlfriend and I think I need to post something positive.

I had to work hard to get approved for financial aid for these classes I am taking.
I started a new job and two weeks later I started schooling after being out of college for almost 8 years all while going through dermatologist appointments to determine my level of skin cancer.
I had to work hard to figure out how to balance a night class and two online classes while taking care of a family and working.
I moved from a 2 bedroom house to a small houseboat.
I have two small children to take care of and make sure the were stable.
I have been processing past emotional trauma that came up unexpected.
I have been seeing a counselor.
I went to a doctors to get medication for my depression which is causing me to be ill last couple mornings.
I have been working hard to balance an emotional unstable partner with his own emotional issues.
I have a very horrible night that left me feeling completely crushed and left me feeling no real love to my bph.
I had my hours cut at work and can't afford daycare so now I need help from my homeless BIL that saved my child's life.
I had a panic attack in February when I ended up in the hospital.
I have had surgery two days after my panic attack for skin cancer after months of tests being run.
I have been healing from the very large cut that was done for the surgery.
I have had to take Uber rides to work and daycare (when we could afford it) and ride my bike, just to make it to a job that has left me feeling unappreciated.  All because my bph got upset about wasting his lunch hour on a job I forced him to take.

While it doesn't seem positive, there is an underlying meaning.  Everything that has happened in the past 5 months, I am still sitting here today, holding it together.  I brought up my grades, I got help for myself, I am working on my relationship with my kids, I am job hunting for a better job.  No matter what is happening with my bph, I am still pushing forward to make a better life for myself and my kids.

[Cat Familiar]

Frankee, I hope you are proud of all you've accomplished, despite tremendous difficulties!   

That's great to read your list of achievements.   

Some time in the future, you'll look back at this moment in time and marvel at how much you did to make things better for your kids and yourself.

[Frankee]

I think I did pretty well handling a serious conversation with my bph.  It started off rocky.  He basically blamed our oldest kid's lying squarely on my shoulders.   My bph says he has heard us fight about it enough to understand.

And by well, I mean I thought we were having a civil conversation.  Until he popped off with, you still haven't done the one thing I keep telling you to do when I get upset.  I at first didn't know what he was talking about then I was like ooh.. He wants me to touch him, say I love him, and to calm down.  Um, okay.  I told him I thought we were sitting down and having a talk about things that were upsetting us.  A civil conversation.  Apparently he wasn't feeling the same way.

Truth is, I see is a man who can't be there for me when I am really down.  Even he sees I have fallen to a hole and he hates it. I seeing a man who really doesn't grasp the emotional damage he did to me.  He wants me to let it go because He's gotten better. I am also seeing a man who is spending a lot on time on FB and seeing others have fun.  He brought up how it use to be.  Going out, maybe more kids, having fun with "other people".  He feels the only thing that has changed for him is his anger.  Case closed.  The truth comes out.

I knew it deep down.  I shut down facebook and social media for that exact reason.  It was distracting me from the important things in my life.  My mental health has taken a hit and honestly,  after our discussion tonight, I really don't feel much of anything for him.  The things I have experienced over the past few years has changed me.  I didn't carry the weight in my mind that I do now.

[Cat Familiar]

So he thinks it’s your responsibility to soothe him when he’s upset, yet he doesn’t reciprocate that when you’re not feeling good.

He wants to go out, have sex with other women and you, and have more kids. Now that he’s not acting out in an angry way, he thinks it’s his due.

You’re feeling that other things are more important than superficial fun nights out partying. What you’ve experienced in recent years has changed you.

[Frankee]

So he thinks it’s your responsibility to soothe him when he’s upset, yet he doesn’t reciprocate that when you’re not feeling good.

He wants to go out, have sex with other women and you, and have more kids. Now that he’s not acting out in an angry way, he thinks it’s his due.

You’re feeling that other things are more important than superficial fun nights out partying. What you’ve experienced in recent years has changed you.

That sums it up.  Don't really have much else to say.  I had a lingering feeling he still wanted that life.  If he didn't, he wouldn't bring it up.  It's a little hypocritical because he isn't happy with staying home, but says I forced him to go out the very last time.

I think we can coach YOU to a much better outcome for YOU...in that situation.

FF

I looked back at the comment about getting a better outcome.  Something he said to me last night.  I chose to say and allowed myself to be treated the way I was.  That just because I allowed it, doesn't mean he is going to put up with it. I haven't looked it up yet, but I believe that falls under what an abuser would  say. 

[formflier]

  I haven't looked it up yet, but I believe that falls under what an abuser would  say. 

I'm not defending him..(just wanted to get that out there first!)

Yet...oftentimes there is a kernel of truth in things that get twisted.

Here is the thing.  While you likely didn't "verbally" say it was ok (whatever "it" is) there is a statement being made by you when you "accept" certain behavior around you.

I would focus more on what you communicate to him via your actions, than your words.  Even better if you can get them all to match!

Switching gears?

How much longer for school?  How are you feeling about finals?

FF

[Frankee]

There is truth to some degree.  That's is why I am at a crossroads.

Ex.  Wearing gray butt hugging pants.  Who are you wearing those for?  Myself, they are comfortable.  Upset because I wear them to school, jealousy.  I don't dress up for him, when I go out.  I dress down to go run errands, he doesn't like shirt.  He is jealous of other men, yet gets upset when I don't want other women.  = dressing sexy for him, No one else, not attracting men, just women.

I use to just go with it when he would behave this way, now I don't.  Result is I am less accepting of underhanded jealousy comments and when I don't "answer" right. 

I am not sure what I want to communicate to him.  I know he wants me to his wife.  Simple enough request, but it's the weight he puts on behind it. I do know I am still dropping the ball on automatically acting sarcastic. 

Monday is my last day of finals.  I am nervous for my human anatomy class.  I will be hard.  I am trying to stay focused on that and hopefully make it through the next few days.

[Cat Familiar]

When you get done with finals, you can breathe a sigh of relief and then think about relationship goals for the future. In the meantime, try not to be sarcastic or trigger him. You need to focus all your attention on school. You don't need emotional disruptions that will draw your energy away from your studies.

If you don't want threesomes or another kid, that might signal long-term incompatibility if these are deal breakers for him. Likewise if he can't treat you with the respect you want and deserve, this might be a deal breaker for you.

[formflier]

  Result is I am less accepting of underhanded jealousy comments and when I don't "answer" right. 
 

Priority 1...focus and get through finals!

Then...FF has a final exam.  One question.  Why "accept" those comments at all?

He can be jealous all he wants...he can talk to others about it all he wants...but why should you participate in those conversations?  How do they improve your relationship?

Best,

FF

[Frankee]

Priority 1...focus and get through finals!

Then...FF has a final exam.  One question.  Why "accept" those comments at all?

He can be jealous all he wants...he can talk to others about it all he wants...but why should you participate in those conversations?  How do they improve your relationship?

I heard this echo in my mind.  I did my best not to instigate a fight.  I kept my cool, even when he snapped. 

I did my best not to ignite the flame, still turned into him telling me to leave and upset that I am not fighting for this relationship. 

He wants me to fight for a relationship that I already said is toxic.  I am having trouble waking up in the morning, I  have been displaying all the signs of depression. 

I have a few days left before my last two tests and I am still focused.  I am feeling tried.  He is trying to put all of this on me.  He even said I need to go back to my parents.  Not going to happen.  Disregard for my last week of schooling and knowing I have no money.

I wish this could had waited until my last final, but I guess life always throws in unforseen circumstances.

[formflier]

A little help.

Practice these word tracks.

"I've chosen not to fight with you about our relationship.  I'm open to friendly conversations."

"It would mean a lot to me for you to give me space, without all this relationship talk, so I can focus on my school finals."

"I hear that our relationship is important to you.  I feel the same.  Let's schedule time on (pick a couple days after final) to talk further"

"I'm not going to fight.  I would like to take a walk with you in an hour." (break from studying)

Jiggle these up and around so they don't get stale.  Use these for next couple days to keep putting him off.  You are not trying to solve anything..just kick the can down the road and get as much calm as you can...to study and rest.

Then...sleep and recover a couple days.

Then...have a frank talk with him when you are at your best.  We can help you there to. (preview...you will be very prickly about new boundaries..no fighting..no bellicose conversations...no nonsense..)

Hang in there..you can do it!  

FF

(PS...guess who walks the stage for an MBA degree tomorrow?     )  Finals will end...school will end and you can get your life back.  

[I Am Redeemed]

I have a feeling that by "fighting for the relationship" he means you frantically capitulating to whatever he wants in order to keep the relationship. That isn't happening, and so he trying to force you to admit what he probably already fears: you don't want to be with him anymore, and if you don't, then it's because something is wrong with you, not him...after all, he has been "trying".

Have you considered that he might be purposely (or even subconsciously) distracting you from studying because he sees you graduating and getting a better job as a threat?

I'm with FF, keep kicking the can as much as possible. You're almost through it, and it took a lot to get to where you are.

Good job, Frankee, and (slight thread hijack) good job, FF!

[Frankee]

I want to first thank everyone on here for all of the awesome advice.  This forum has saved my sanity more times than I can count.

"It would mean a lot to me for you to give me space, without all this relationship talk, so I can focus on my school finals."
Jiggle these up and around so they don't get stale.  Use these for next couple days to keep putting him off.  You are not trying to solve anything..just kick the can down the road and get as much calm as you can...to study and rest.

(PS...guess who walks the stage for an MBA degree tomorrow?     )  Finals will end...school will end and you can get your life back. 

I tried the one mentioned above tonight.  It didn't go over well, but I am feeling in a good place.  I didn't do what I normally did and he escalated and being "the @sshole" but it ended pretty quick.  Now he is just stewing.  I also haven't been quick to "fix" anything and I didn't JADE.

Also congratulations on the degree! 

I have a feeling that by "fighting for the relationship" he means you frantically capitulating to whatever he wants in order to keep the relationship. That isn't happening, and so he trying to force you to admit what he probably already fears: you don't want to be with him anymore, and if you don't, then it's because something is wrong with you, not him...after all, he has been "trying".

Have you considered that he might be purposely (or even subconsciously) distracting you from studying because he sees you graduating and getting a better job as a threat?

You hit it spot on with the there is something wrong with me, not him.  He's been watching this Deadliest Women show and now thinks I am displaying symptoms of the women that go off the deep end and kill their family.  I was laughing in my head at the absurdity, but was able to mantain a calm exterior. 

I let him get out his frustrations for a short period and how he was saying how far I have fallen and now I am putting the kids at risk, how because of my ex, I am now on CPS's radar.   Just all the complete and utter nonsense in an attempt to scare me.  I was able to keep it under control and it didn't explode or carry on for hours.  Kind of an accomplishment.

And yes, I think he may be directly/indirectly distracting me.

[Frankee]

I didn't take my anti depressant last night.  I think they medication was having a side effect.  The last couple days I was having extreme trouble getting up in the morning.  I thonk the medication was making me very tired.  This morning I got up easier.

Trouble is, last couple days, my oldest stayed home because of my troubles.  He missed the bus.  We didn't have the gas money to drive him.  Problem is, now I am up on time and the weather is horrible.  I would not feel right about making him walk to the bus stop.  I asked my bph if he could pick him up and take him to school on his lunch.  I tell my kids, if they ask me something, the worse I can say is no.

My bph of course says I am laying a guilt trip on him, if I hadn't messed up all week, I could let him stay home guilt free.  He of course got upset and said keep it up.

I decided that my last bit of energy is going into making it through the next 4 days.  I will keep trying to kick that can down the street and by myself a little more time.

[Cat Familiar]

Frankee, I hope you can have a nice restful conflict-free weekend. Good luck with your finals.  Cat

[Frankee]

Frankee, I hope you can have a nice restful conflict-free weekend. Good luck with your finals.  Cat

Thank you cat.  Conflict free.. no.  Studies are going good.  Not feeling a 100% ready, but I have one more solid study date for one class and two for my second class.  I have been lucky enough and gotten breaks from him in the mornings.  Conflict was tonight, just another ridiculous thing.  I will go into more tomorrow after I attempt to get some rest.

[JNChell]

I need to diffuse the problem/issue that arises before he starts his blathering.

No, you don’t. You can block what hurts you. If he’s willing, he’ll work through these things with you. If not, what are your choices?

[formflier]

Good luck Frankee...you can do this!  One last bit of focus!

FF

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked.  Please feel free to start a new thread.  Thank you.