Part 3: No contact with daughter

[eggshellalert]

This is a continuation of a previous thread. Part 2, with a link to part 1, can be found here

She’s blocked me, her sister and her father. But she sees my mother.
I really don‘t know if she came out like that; I suspect it was something in childhood. It festered and festered  and materialzed after bad breakups in teenage and early 20s. She moved an hour away for college „and never came back“. She distanced herself more and more once her marriage broke up. And when she found the current guy, became even more Distant. (With each guy she pours herself into them.)

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Hopeandjoy]

I really don‘t know if she came out like that; I suspect it was something in childhood. It festered and festered  and materialzed after bad breakups in teenage and early 20s. She moved an hour away for college „and never came back“. She distanced herself more and more once her marriage broke up. And when she found the current guy, became even more Distant. (With each guy she pours herself into them.)

What changed during her childhood?

[FaithHopeLove]

It can be very difficult to pinpoint "what happened" with our BPD children. I have no clue what triggered my son. My therapist says it is likely I will never know the exact cause (s) of his disorder and, honestly, I don't think it matters at this point. Whatever did or did not occur in the past that led to my son having BPD is in the past and cannot be changed. I stay in the present as much as possible and do what I can to help us all to have a better future.

[Hopeandjoy]

Did your get into therapy for help dealing your son? Did your therapist do what you paid him/her to do? Did they do long term family therapy with you and your son? 

[Hopeandjoy]

You are not responsible for your child's emotions, we are all doing the best we can and kids don't come with a manual. 

When there is unresolved conflict in a person or family, whichever child happens to be vulnerable at the time can become a catch-all.  Everyday problems get redirected to that child, stabilizing the rest of the family. They are taught to tolerate. At the same time they know they're getting "pushed over" so they are always trying to learn not to tolerate it. That's why they swing into aggression to take back personal power. They can go through phases, or constantly cycle.

Your child has to learn healthy ways to assert instead of aggress. They feel an enormous sense of loss for the real self they wanted to express, they feel crippled and feel robbed of a chance at life. Not seeing you is often the only boundary they can maintain with their current skillset. They are going to make mistakes along the way, and it is very difficult to be patient with their journey. As you already know, you will have your own feelings to process.

The cause of BPD is an invalidating environment. Your therapist will not tell you that, because then you would stop paying him/her. 

[FaithHopeLove]

Did your get into therapy for help dealing your son? Did your therapist do what you paid him/her to do? Did they do long term family therapy with you and your son? 

Yes. I am in therapy to help me care for my son and myself. It is super helpful. My son refuses to go to family therapy although it is available.

Are you in or considering therapy?

[Hopeandjoy]

I've been in therapy too and I'm the only one who will go. Once I found the right counselor, she helped me sort out my role and perspective in everything and helped me move forward with my life.

The best thing to do is to be realistic about what you expect from the pwBPD and focus on how to respond to each behavior. You deserve to enjoy your life despite the challenges in your family. The family member with BPD has a right to form their own beliefs about the family and make decisions based on their convictions. You do not have to like their decisions or listen to everything they say. Its best to gradually let them take full responsibility for their life and get the hint when they want you to step back, but be patient with yourself along the way.

Applying a diagnosis to the behavior set is a great point of reference for getting help. it's very easy to dismiss their needs and perspective once we decide they have a disorder, so it's important to know when to separate the diagnosis from the person. A therapist is someone who took some classes to get authority to diagnose people, but its a manmade system. We can make decisions based on someone's actions but we cannot see inside their heart. Professional or not, we only have the authority to define ourselves. 

I hope your relationships improve with your families!

[Only Human]

I fully expect that she wont let me in. Ill leave a note.. I wanted to see you and know you’re ok. I love you. I won’t give up.

I can certainly understand your desire to know that your DD is OK, eggshellalert! We are mothers, we love deeply and care always. Are you in touch with any others who may have contact with her? Do you know at all how she is doing? I ask because, for my DD, she made herself scarce when she was not doing well. Drugs, homelessness, she stayed away. She told me later she didn't want to hurt me, for me to see she that she wasn't ok.

I don't know that a pop-in visit would improve matters any. In Part 1 of this thread, you posted that when you last popped in she separated you and your husband and let you have it, told you that you are not welcome. She may react similarly as she may see your visit as you crossing the boundary she set last year.

BPD want love don’t they? I want to show her love. But she may not take it that way, but maybe she will deep down and maybe not right away.

We all want to feel loved and pwBPD have deeper needs than those who are more emotionally mature. Perhaps a card sent to her home with a message of, "Our door is always open, we love you and miss you," without any expectations, may be better received. What do you think?

Here's a hug for you because I think you might need it today

~ OH

[FaithHopeLove]

I agree with Only Human here. Visiting unannounced may not bring you the result you want because your daughter may feel pressured by your presence. My son's birthday is coming up. I am trying to have no expectations and take life as it comes.

[Hopeandjoy]

I don't understand how a chile sees no value in her family. We were always very family-oriented. Family vacations, family birthdays, etc.

so sorry that you're going thru this and I think you feel rejected by your daughter, which is very tough. I believe your daughter distanced herself because she felt like there was conflict.
It sounds like you were happy with the family activities whereas your daughter saw it differently. Most likely she had other needs and tried to reach you over the years. But it's not your fault she felt like separation was the best option.
SOmetimes its difficult to sort out the shifting roles and authority as the kids grow, especially once they start their own lives.

When someone has BPD, it's best to approach them showing consideration for their needs and feelings. It's also good to be clear with them on what you need. When they understand exactly what you are "fighting for", they will consider a win-win solution if you come up with it.

When you show up at her house, have other people call to pressure her into changing her mind etc. you are increasing your power. It's better to empower your individual life so you are prepared to talk to your daughter effectively when she's open to it. If you try to increase power over her and she talks to a counselor or police about it, they will recommend she blocks your calls etc.

It's best to focus on what you can do to change the way she responds to you. Just like you can read material and discuss your daughter being BPD, she can read material and discuss you being abusive parents. These are both subjective, social standards that are meant for information. while they have influence it's best to leave them out of your conflict.

[eggshellalert]

 Thank you everyone for your very honest responses  and input. I understand that it may not look like a good idea to pop in on her but I really feel I need to show her I am not going to give up. I fully expect to have the door closed on me and I prepared for that (I think LOL). I have made phone calls, I have left messages I cards on Christmas and birthday and I have written a letter in the past year. Something inside of me has a need very strongly to see her face even if she just gets mad and closes the door I have this desire for her to see me as well.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Hopeandjoy]

I understand that it may not look like a good idea to pop in on her but I really feel I need to show her I am not going to give up. I fully expect to have the door closed on me and I prepared for that (I think LOL). I have made phone calls, I have left messages I cards on Christmas and birthday and I have written a letter in the past year. Something inside of me has a need very strongly to see her face even if she just gets mad and closes the door I have this desire for her to see me as well.

Thanks for sharing your feelings here. There is some gold here, when you said that you need to see her face and want her to see you it means that you need/want interaction with her. You prly need some acknowledgement as well. I know you can get this by going to her house, but I'm concerned that would escalate the conflict.

I think your best option is to reach out in a phone call/email/letter with a new approach. Invite her to share her perspective on this, and don't JADE. Then you could ask if she'd be interested in meeting somewhere public one on one. Anything you send in writing/recording could be shared without your knowledge, so I would save certain things for face to face only.

[eggshellalert]

What do you mean “don’t JADE”? I have left messages to ask about meeting for dinner, etc. I don’t think she reads my letters or hears my voice message (she’s blocked so I don’t know that she even gets the messages).

[Only Human]

JADE is an acronym, it stands for:

Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain

Here's some more in-depth information about it.

2.02 | Don't "JADE" (justify, argue, defend, explain)

~ OH

[Lollypop]

Hi eggshellalert

I’m terribly sorry you’re going through this right now.

I fully expect to have the door closed on me and I prepared for that (I think LOL)

Ok. I get that you feel a need to see your daughter’s face. I still get a need to do things. Now, when I feel that push to take some form of action, I pause and I try to do things with wisemind if I can.

The more I took action, the more I pushed my son away. I had to change myself and change my approach.

My son didn’t want contact with me because he would get more of the same from me. I had to show him things could be different.

What do you want the outcome to be the next time you see your daughter?  

LP

[FaithHopeLove]

I agree with Lollypop and Only Human. Your desire to see your daughter's face is completely understandable. It is tempting to just show up at her door. But is it a wise choice ? Would it help or hinder your relationship?

[Hopeandjoy]

I have left messages to ask about meeting for dinner, etc. I don’t think she reads my letters or hears my voice message (she’s blocked so I don’t know that she even gets the messages).

Sending a text or letter is a way to reach her, you can use that opportunity to communicate in a healthier way. something like, "I feel sad that I can't see you, and I would like to see you for an hour or two. Is there anything you need to talk about and would you consider meeting at X restaurant sometime next week?" She will understand exactly what you're asking for, she will also see that you're willing to do something for her. More than likely she feels unheard and invalidated, labeled etc. in the family and she has prly given up on getting what she needs from you.

[Lollypop]

Hi egg

Hugs to you as I know you’re hurting.

I remember you reaching out at Xmas.  Do you have any news about your daughter?

LP

[eggshellalert]

I’m so lucky to have all of you to talk to.
I have sent cards (birthday, Christmas), left voice mail to invite her to dinner. I don’t think she reads them.
Ive read about JADE. I agree. I don’t want to confront her. I want her to lead the conversation if I get that far! She’s the one with the info...
Lollypop, I want her to see things could be different. I want my outcome to be that she sees her mother not giving up and wanting to reach out to hear her. And I have no news. I dont know  anything, sadly.
Faith: what “relationship” would I hinder. There isn’t anything now. Could this be worse? Its been a year. I have to do something.

[Hopeandjoy]

I want her to see things could be different. I want my outcome to be that she sees her mother not giving up and wanting to reach out to hear her.

It makes sense that you want this. She has already seen that you're not giving up and wanting to hear from you. She will see that things could be different if you show a willingness to hear her out without doing JADE.

[FaithHopeLove]

Faith: what “relationship” would I hinder. There isn’t anything now. Could this be worse? Its been a year. I have to do something.

Honestly yes I think things could get worse between you and your daughter particularly if she feels invalidated or pressured. I also think things could get better with her and your relationship with her could improve particularly if she sees you as validating her feelings and not pressuring her.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mamabolivia]

Oh HopeandJoy, I wish you were by my side always! What fabulous explanations and suggestions!

[Swimmy55]

Something to ask yourself eggshellalert:  Do you want validation from your daughter?  Please make sure you are emotionally strong enough to accept possible rejection.  In other words, do not attach any expectations if you decide to show up at her door.  You have to be ok with a bad reaction from her.  Also did you run this by your therapist? 

[eggshellalert]

Well, I went to see her. I had left a message for her the day before. She met my car in the parking lot and said I should go home, I’m not welcome. I expected the rejection. I also left a card. Maybe someday... I won’t stop trying.

[wendydarling]

Hi eggs 

Prepared for rejection or not, it hurts. I'm sorry 

Eggs, what's your daughter's grievance against you, what has she told you? It sounds like this needs unwrapping to find possible solutions.

WDx

[eggshellalert]

I wish I knew! I told her I‘m here to see her because I want to understand. She said what‘s the point...that I wouldn’t understand anyway.

[livednlearned]

I wonder if from her perspective it has been a year of contact ... to you, she is holding you at arm's length and yet there has still been contact, which may make her feel powerless and unable to have control over a part of her life that generates anxiety (caused by the potential for intimacy). To her, perhaps she is trying to avoid engulfment and can't because her barriers cannot hold the water back.

To her, you are not able to stay away and that is about you, when she is trying (clumsily, unskillfully) to make something about her.