17 year old daughter riding the line with bad behavior

[Parents! Get help here!]

We have a long family history dealing with pre-BPD issues with my son, who spent 5 1/2 years in RTCs. He's home now, splitting his time between me and his mother -- son is essentially a sociopath, doesn't respect the rule of law. The school is transitioning him to a regular classroom, he might or might not make it, depends on how badly he slips the next time he cycles. We had a horrible few weeks when he first arrived, multiple runaways, credit card fraud, posturing, language, etc.

Meanwhile, my 17 year old daughter has spent this year at a boarding school, to give her a bit of space from S14, who we knew was rotating home. So D17 was recently expelled from boarding school due to multiple suicide threats and the school counselor strongly suspected BPD, urging us to put D17 into an RTC so that she can work on her mental health to prepare for college.

D17 spent 3 weeks at home, waiting for a space in an RTC. She was riding the line with offensive behavior, aggression, blocking, provocation, and waiting for her step-mother to lose her temper. She did once, screamed and threw some things, now D17 is filing a report of child abuse to DCS and has the RTC staff and my family convinced how terrible we are. In her mind, D17 is just a little depressed, and traumatized by bullying and mental abuse from her step-mother.

My sister (her aunt) and her grandfather are enabling D17, no longer talking to me, cut me out of the will, etc. Every conversation with D17 in the 2 weeks she has been in the RTC have been over how her step mother is a bully, abuses her, etc. The reality is that her step-mother did a great job not engaging during 3 weeks of hellish behavior and the one time she over-reacted, she called me for help. D17 is gaslighting, has everyone convinced how terrible we are. D17 did the same thing a year ago during an inpatient psychiatric stay. She did the same thing with her mother 4 years ago, painting her black. She did the same thing with her brother (S14), who really did traumatize her during her childhood.

Meanwhile, D17 is in her second week at an RTC, working the family over the phone like a mob boss running their organization from prison. I'm cut off from the family, she has the residential staff convinced we're monsters. Everything is really fowled up. My wife (her step-mother) is stressed, fed-up, and can't live with the drama much longer. Heck, neither can I.

[ProfDaddy]

We have a long family history dealing with pre-BPD issues with my son, who spent 5 1/2 years in RTCs. He's home now, splitting his time between me and his mother -- son is essentially a sociopath, doesn't respect the rule of law. The school is transitioning him to a regular classroom, he might or might not make it, depends on how badly he slips the next time he cycles. We had a horrible few weeks when he first arrived, multiple runaways, credit card fraud, posturing, language, etc.

Meanwhile, my 17 year old daughter has spent this year at a boarding school, to give her a bit of space from S14, who we knew was rotating home. So D17 was recently expelled from boarding school due to multiple suicide threats and the school counselor strongly suspected BPD, urging us to put D17 into an RTC so that she can work on her mental health to prepare for college.

D17 spent 3 weeks at home, waiting for a space in an RTC. She was riding the line with offensive behavior, aggression, blocking, provocation, and waiting for her step-mother to lose her temper. She did once, screamed and threw some things, now D17 is filing a report of child abuse to DCS and has the RTC staff and my family convinced how terrible we are. In her mind, D17 is just a little depressed, and traumatized by bullying and mental abuse from her step-mother.

My sister (her aunt) and her grandfather are enabling D17, no longer talking to me, cut me out of the will, etc. Every conversation with D17 in the 2 weeks she has been in the RTC have been over how her step mother is a bully, abuses her, etc. The reality is that her step-mother did a great job not engaging during 3 weeks of hellish behavior and the one time she over-reacted, she called me for help. D17 is gaslighting, has everyone convinced how terrible we are. D17 did the same thing a year ago during an inpatient psychiatric stay. She did the same thing with her mother 4 years ago, painting her black. She did the same thing with her brother (S14), who really did traumatize her during her childhood.

Meanwhile, D17 is in her second week at an RTC, working the family over the phone like a mob boss running their organization from prison. I'm cut off from the family, she has the residential staff convinced we're monsters. Everything is really fowled up. My wife (her step-mother) is stressed, fed-up, and can't live with the drama much longer. Heck, neither can I.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

Wow Profdaddy
That does sound like a mess. It sounds like you and your wife could really use a break. How are you doing with self care?

[Enabler]

Family, friends, strangers, therapists and mental health professionals can all be dangerous if they don't believe in Unicorns. I feel your struggle and agitation that people can't see the truth and believe her disordered reality. Truth is a funny old thing, some people will argue that there are multiple truths, I somewhat disagree, I think there is one truth but multiple realities. Your D believes her reality and therefore it is her truth... this is sometimes the scariest thing about BPD is that because someone is soo convinced of their truth that their emotional expression reflects that truth/reality. I have pondered many times what is it that makes for a believable reality vs a lie... I've concluded that there's a large fraternity that believe emotional expression rather than data and evidence... hence a fraudulent charismatic politician or preacher can have a great avid following. It's hard to fight against this narrative and pretty distressing when people whom you considered loving family and friends choose to believe in the warped narrative.

One reservation I do have is the healthcare professionals. Like I said before, often with a distorted thinker, the quickest way to gain their trust and create calm is to act as if you buy into their delusion. Ultimately a healthcare professional can't help the pwBPD unless they have their complete trust... I can see how if this happened and you experienced this it might seem as though they genuinely believed your daughters feelings, rather than trying to get an understanding of the facts. Maybe the facts don't matter to healthcare professionals, maybe they are positioning themselves into a place where they can get her to address these feelingfacts for validity. That may well be their priority rather than truth seeking. Do you ever get an opportunity to have a 1 on 1 with the carers/doctors? Have they banned you from the facility or called the police? I'm just trying to examine whether or not they have tried to formalise these accusations in a sign that they genuinely believe them.

Hang in there.

Enabler

[FaithHopeLove]

Enabler as always brings up some very good points. People may just be more or less placating her, not genuinely believing all these horrible accusations against you. Even if some do, the truth tends to come out in the end. Meanwhile I hope you are taking time out to care for yourself.

[SkellyII]

One reservation I do have is the healthcare professionals. Like I said before, often with a distorted thinker, the quickest way to gain their trust and create calm is to act as if you buy into their delusion. Ultimately a healthcare professional can't help the pwBPD unless they have their complete trust... I can see how if this happened and you experienced this it might seem as though they genuinely believed your daughters feelings, rather than trying to get an understanding of the facts. Maybe the facts don't matter to healthcare professionals, maybe they are positioning themselves into a place where they can get her to address these feelingfacts for validity. That may well be their priority rather than truth seeking. Do you ever get an opportunity to have a 1 on 1 with the carers/doctors? Have they banned you from the facility or called the police? I'm just trying to examine whether or not they have tried to formalise these accusations in a sign that they genuinely believe them.

Hi ProfDaddy,

Unfortunately, I've been on both sides of this. As my daughter gets older, she's learned how to tell her stories in a much more convincing manner. Most of the properly trained and experienced BPD therapists can spot this, but watch out for the inexperienced ones who haven't grasped the gaslighting and splitting characteristics of BPD patients. I've chronicled some of my experiences with this in previous posts.

Having a one-on-one with her therapist would be helpful, tell the therapist your concerns, and see what their approach is. If the therapist refuses to meet with you, fire that therapist immediately and get a better one.

I am going to throw this question out there: Has anyone noticed a difference in how dads are treated vs moms? Are the healthcare professionals, family members, random folks more likely to believe it when the BPD patient says bad things about dad vs mom?

I can probably ask the same question for step-parents.

Your thoughts?

[Enabler]

Enabler as always brings up some very good points. People may just be more or less placating her, not genuinely believing all these horrible accusations against you. Even if some do, the truth tends to come out in the end. Meanwhile I hope you are taking time out to care for yourself.

To be clear I think there are 2 groups of people, those who believe her stories because they ‘seem real’ by emotional expression and the alternative is frankly like believing in unicorns. The other group maybe are experienced by they realise placating is the best course to treatment for now.

[ProfDaddy]

Skellyll has a good point,

As my daughter gets older, she's learned how to tell her stories in a much more convincing manner. Most of the properly trained and experienced BPD therapists can spot this, but watch out for the inexperienced ones who haven't grasped the gaslighting and splitting characteristics of BPD patients.

My daughter's strongest skill development is learning how to tell her stories in a much more convincing manner. She has the therapists at the facility convinced, has my father convinced, and my sister. The department of children's services was not convinced -- when they received a complaint of "abuse" and spoke with me on the phone, they did not open an investigation, they understood the "delusions of abuse."

Nevertheless, my daughter is almost 18, and won't live in an environment she can't manipulate. I choose not to fight this anymore. My daughter has chosen her path, she wants to cut me off, live with her aunt, and maintain close ties with my father (the child molester). My sister had an attorney draw up papers for temporary guardianship and wants to make that permanent. There's nothing left to fight about, but I have lost my daughter and that's sad.

[jeanoc]

I am so sorry.  My husband and I have been on a very similar path with our now 18 year old daughter (my step-daughter).  My thoughts and prayers are with you because I know the gut wrenching pain you are feeling and what hurts even more is that they don't see or care what they are doing to us.