Boundaries with SD22, a blended family dynamic

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So none of the rest of the family is willing to set their own boundaries with SD22, and they expect H to "fix" her so she doesn't take over their lives.  And his version of "fixing" the problem is to allow her to do almost whatever she wants at your house even though you want to set boundaries around what is allowed in your home.

Basically, he's accommodating all of those other people and turning a blind eye to his wife asking for the exact same thing (help with managing SD's neediness).  I understand why you feel so frustrated.

I would not fall into the trap of allowing him to compared SD25 living with you to SD22's random incursions or into you comparing SD22's treatment to S17.   When it comes down to it,  the two of you decided together whether SD25 would live with you, and, I assume, set rules for her presence in the home that she is following.  SD25 is respecting boundaries (asking permission to have overnight guests).  S17 also lives in the house and follows rules that you set, and, I assume, is required to ask permission for lots of things he wants to do.

What you are really asking is for SD22 to do the same.  To ask permission and to follow rules and to not be a pain in the neck.  She does not live with you.  She has a home of her own in another state.  She should not be allowed to invite her boyfriend to your home without your permission.

[worriedStepmom]

So none of the rest of the family is willing to set their own boundaries with SD22, and they expect H to "fix" her so she doesn't take over their lives.  And his version of "fixing" the problem is to allow her to do almost whatever she wants at your house even though you want to set boundaries around what is allowed in your home.

Basically, he's accommodating all of those other people and turning a blind eye to his wife asking for the exact same thing (help with managing SD's neediness).  I understand why you feel so frustrated.

I would not fall into the trap of allowing him to compared SD25 living with you to SD22's random incursions or into you comparing SD22's treatment to S17.   When it comes down to it,  the two of you decided together whether SD25 would live with you, and, I assume, set rules for her presence in the home that she is following.  SD25 is respecting boundaries (asking permission to have overnight guests).  S17 also lives in the house and follows rules that you set, and, I assume, is required to ask permission for lots of things he wants to do.

What you are really asking is for SD22 to do the same.  To ask permission and to follow rules and to not be a pain in the neck.  She does not live with you.  She has a home of her own in another state.  She should not be allowed to invite her boyfriend to your home without your permission.

[ForeverDad]

SD22 really does need a counselor.  Maybe the word is therapist, seems to be a slippery slope on what the difference is between C vs T.

I made that statement because her chosen profession is working closely with children.  It's not like its a job where she in front of computers, in a factory, manning a desk in an office or working with other adults.  Any hiccups with her teaching or behaviors in front of the children could and would impact her ability to continue teaching.

[formflier]

Teaching will be a great profession for her if she can slowly take on the lessons without a career ending meltdown.

Many of you know my history and that of my wife.  She is resistant to "direct therapy".  She has been a full time teacher for the last several years.  I might add that her school has a higher than normal percentage of poverty and social ills (single parents, no parents, parents in jail, having to make reports to CPS about kids coming to school with whelps from beatings...I could go on)

Her school has a full time psychologist and several social workers to deal with this.

So..when talking about her day we regularly talk about validation, projection, not taking things personally and a whole host of psychological issues/terms.

I will validate that those are important and can hang with the conversation, yet I don't "point" it at her.

 However, this does allow me to use those terms when making family decisions and for future planning.

"How can we conduct this family meeting so that projecting is minimized... ... "  A time or two she has asked if I was talking about her and I deftly dodged and said "I'm sure you would agree it's important for everyone to own their own feelings...and be heard.   That's all I'm talking about."

Once or twice I've countered with.."Do you think you project..is that where this concern is coming from?"

 

Anyway...from time to time I will hear her say "looks like I'm going to have to (insert psych term)" and one time recently after projecting weird stuff at me and having me leave the conversation she approached me and said

"I'm trying to be nice to you.."

So I forgot the past and we moved forward.."poof"..the crazy never happened.

Long winded FF way of saying...there is a better than average chance that teaching is a net positive for her behaviors.

The biggest caveat is she needs to be able to behave for a couple years while she takes all this in.  How did her student teaching go?

FF

[wendydarling]

Honest question LnL  , honest answer.

SD22 is in crisis and plummeting and no amount of holding her up by others will save her from arriving where she's heading?

We can all do sticky plasters, us and our pwBPD loved ones when what we really need is to all acknowledge the here and now. SD is in crisis, right now, despite what she presents?

WDx

[livednlearned]

So none of the rest of the family is willing to set their own boundaries with SD22, and they expect H to "fix" her so she doesn't take over their lives.  And his version of "fixing" the problem is to allow her to do almost whatever she wants at your house even though you want to set boundaries around what is allowed in your home.

Yes. His version of supporting SD22 has been to fix fix fix by allowing her no boundaries, correct. We made progress in the last four months to get to a compromise. My new compromise with the visits is "please consult me" because honestly, if it were my kid, I would be in H's shoes to some extent.

I would be, "Let me move forward, and let me do it slowly so I can manage my own feelings about this." And the other compromises are slow by nature: getting some classes under our belts, talking about this more openly, solidifying our partnership, small changes. Tiny little changes. I feel hopeful we will get there based on past history.

SD22 really does need a counselor.  

Yes. And imo, she would be a duck to water with a DBT therapist. Where H and I differ is that he feels this particular time of crisis is temporary, whereas I think it's coming to a head. Maybe a crisis will be a blessing in disguise, although I feel there are enough signs to indicate that this ramp is one-way, going up.

there is a better than average chance that teaching is a net positive for her behaviors.

I sense that, too. She is very dedicated and skills-wise she has a lot of talent working with sped students. I sense that she is "using" therapy as a way to get skills for helping herself, under the guise of helping her students. Her first psychotic episode happened in the same environment where she will be teaching, only six years later. She talks about working with kids who are sped students because of trauma and ptsd. I feel like she is healing herself, in her own way.

Honest question LnL  , honest answer.

SD22 is in crisis and plummeting and no amount of holding her up by others will save her from arriving where she's heading?

We can all do sticky plasters, us and our pwBPD loved ones when what we really need is to all acknowledge the here and now. SD is in crisis, right now, despite what she presents?

Honest question, honest answer, WD  

SD22 is riding her bike without training wheels while H runs alongside her, sometimes holding the bars, and the bike, ready to be her soft landing.

What is hard for me is when we pretend this is the same as riding a bike solo. Yes, there are no training wheels. No, she is not riding without support.

Being quiet BPD means there is tremendous internalizing so the crisis feels fuzzy. And on top of that, H and I both have BPD pathologies in our family. We both have a sibling with BPD, and an ex-spouse. We have high thresholds for mentally ill behavior. I have needed a T to help size this up. My T is alarmed that our family has not been better prepared for a big crisis  

[formflier]

What is hard for me is when we pretend this is the same as riding a bike solo. Yes, there are no training wheels. No, she is not riding without support.

 

Can you talk in analogies with him?  I think you can use this one...

FF

[livednlearned]

His emotions on this seem to create a binary: either she is riding or she is crashing.

I am always saying, There is a third way. And a fourth. And more. Let's think about this.

He is often saying, This is getting overwhelming.

Occasionally he says, I can do x.

He is saying "do" more because by all accounts things are becoming excessive. He loves to feel needed. She is clinging to him while he all but rides the bike for her. And to his credit, he realizes that is excessive.

Now where to go from here ...

[formflier]

  And to his credit, he realizes that is excessive.
 

How does he express this?  I'm always curious how over-functioning parents rationalize their decisions.

What result does he expect from his course of action?

FF

[livednlearned]

How does he express this?  I'm always curious how over-functioning parents rationalize their decisions.

Different ways. When SD22 calls 4-5 times a day, he is exasperated, somewhat in disbelief that she is that needy. "SD22 and I need to see her T together" is what he says to me. They are traveling together for a week and he plans to talk to her about the need to see her T together so he can learn how to better support her.

Sometimes she will call him, he doesn't answer, so she will call my phone. I don't answer. She calls him, again, multiple times. He tries to let her go to voicemail. If he waits her out, he thinks she has self-corrected, but often she is texting her sister, brother, mom, grandmother, me to some extent. I'm sure her BF gets a load of texts, too. Not sure I would call that self-correcting. I would call it desperate.

Other times, he is angry about her neediness. She will call and talk one-way, annoyed with interruptions. If he says the wrong thing (same with texting) she becomes angry at him. Occasionally he has (imo gently) popped back at her, "Please do not make me a target, I am doing xyz." So, a bit of JADEing, when he's had enough.

A typical low-level move is at night, he wants to get into bed early (he gets up at 5am). She will have varying levels of crises that need immediate attention. Last night, she expressed anxiety about her job search, he soothed her for an hour. Then, when he closes the door, she texts him: I have a headache. Then he's up and helping her get aspirin.

Those are moments when he seems bewildered. I used to say, Do this or that. Now I say nothing, and as a result he is more likely to tell me how he's feeling, "She is really high-maintenance. Her stress is going to come across in job interviews. I don't tell her that, exactly, I am trying to provide reassurance."

What result does he expect from his course of action?

His thinking appears to be in two lanes. The oldest lane is hoping that she ages out of this neediness. She has come a long way since her episode at 16 so there is good cause to hope for that.

The other lane, the newer one, is that her original dx of bipolar appears to be either a misdiagnosis or else there are comorbidities missing. He is now open to other diagnoses, a big change for him. He seems to agree that she has some traits of autism and SD25 has apparently raised the possibility of BPD with him.

I did that a few summers ago and he checked right out. Closed for business. The fact he is open to discussing BPD suggests to me that he recognizes something next level is happening.

Quiet BPD presents in a different way than the way it did with his ex, with my ex, and with our two siblings. It doesn't really surprise me that he wasn't open to a BPD dx, especially coming from me. Out of four kids, we have only one *neurotypical* kid, SD25.

Each child with issues, we have gone through a grieving process to one extent or another, both in our separate ways.

[sweetheart]

It’s interesting reading about the behaviour pattern between your SD and her father. It reminds me of my son’s behaviour when he was younger(much younger!), he used to have periods of acute separation anxiety, and went onto be diagnosed with ASC.

What I learnt early on from his psychologist was that I was reinforcing his anxiety and thus  heightening his need to be with me all the time because he couldn’t self-soothe.
He is now 11, and has learnt successfully now to self-soothe using a modified form of CBT. He had a recent period of acute separation anxiety after I had a really bad fall and it understandably knocked his world out of sync, but because he had all the strategies already located within his little neural pathways it didn’t take long for him to get back on an even keel emotionally.

Thinking about your SD and if she is on the spectrum, therapy and her therapist would need to work in a very specific way with her, especially with any anxiety work they are doing.

Everything I read about the situation with your SD, you, her father indicates that Family Systems Therapy would potentially be very successful for all involved, or some kind of bespoke Family Therapy that can be fluid and move with the rhythm of your blended family.

I think in the absence of all family members that are actively involved with your SD being in the same room together addressing the issues systematically you are going to be hard pushed to make head way with the entrenched behaviour dynamic that currently exists.

[livednlearned]

Thinking about your SD and if she is on the spectrum, therapy and her therapist would need to work in a very specific way with her, especially with any anxiety work they are doing.

I think H is coming to that realization, sweetheart. I find the ASC dx could mean more hope for SD22 than if she wasn't on the spectrum because she appears to be systematizing. She approaches CBT skills in a very systematic way. Interesting that she is becoming a sped teacher who will be specializing in ASC students, too. Like FF said above with his wife, I can imagine SD22 learning things for herself through her professional training.

Everything I read about the situation with your SD, you, her father indicates that Family Systems Therapy would potentially be very successful for all involved, or some kind of bespoke Family Therapy that can be fluid and move with the rhythm of your blended family.

That's interesting. If SD22 gets a job within driving distance, we will definitely have to do something more intensive as a family, even if I'm a special guest from time to time.

On a related note, H has been great this last week, helping me with limits and SD22, even if his own are a bit porous. We seem to be in a groove. I am getting better at sticking to my limits, too. As a result, I feel less stressed with her here for the first time. SD22 and I had a nice conversation last night, and a nice one tonight while I prepped dinner.

My T recommended that I thank SD25 (older stepdaughter) when she asks if something is ok to do in my home, like having her BF come stay, and to do it with SD22 present if possible. "Hey, I really appreciate how you ask me these things, I mean that. You're so respectful and it makes me feel good. I'm glad BF can make it this week, and I don't have anything that would conflict so go ahead and let him know he's welcome to stay."

Also, I talked to my T about not allowing SD22 to come stay. sweetheart I think you mentioned this above, that perhaps T was pointing out more extreme requests to help me get somewhere in the middle. She said yes   that it can help motivate positive action toward the goal. Any movement is good movement, so people don't continue to feel stuck.

You guys are so smart 

[Harri]

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