The weekends events

[Longterm]

Hi all.

Before I get to the nitty gritty I want to share what a fantastic weekend I have had. My working week was terrible, I have felt very low but I was determined to start the weekend off well.

Friday I did not sleep after work (work nights) instead I showered for the first time in a week and then I cleaned my place top to bottom. It was and still is spotless. I have vowed to stay on top of it as the past months events have left me neglecting it. I had a meeting at my son's school about his mood and had to explain the events. I have always had a good relationship with the school so it was easy to explain because they know the history.

I usually flake at some point on Fridays and after tea I fell asleep. I went to work as usual on Saturday and couldn't wait to finish. Me and the youngest went fishing and had a great day, we both loved it. Following that we ordered pizza (shh) and watched a movie, we were both asleep by half 9 . Today he went back to nan's and I spent time with my other son whilst cooking a banging dinner. I then spent the night with my cousin, talking things through. Tomorrow I'm at counselling with my son then back to my working week. Honestly been great.

But...

My youngest has me very worried about him. I did tell him a month back that I only wanted him to mention his mom if I really needed to know or he needed some support, I'm not going to deny him an ear, it's my job. He came out with some crazy stuff. He too is very much distressed by recent events. He is struggling to sleep and this is because he is upset and has the whole situation on his mind. He is struggling to concentrate and is isolating himself from friends at school. He is not wanting to spend time with his gf either. He is 10 and he has been with this girl since around the age of 3, I am not kidding, he loves this girl and is always asking for money to buy her presents. He has always been very outgoing, he is a great lad so to hear him talk like this is distressing. He said he feels like he can talk to me about anything but he can't with his mom. He said he feels like his relationship with her is going downhill. She is basically living with the bf and is just going home to take him to school and pick him up. He is just left alone at His nan's. I'm really pissed off about this. This is wearing thin on his nan as you can imagine. She has told him that if he needs support he can talk to her, you have no idea how grateful I was to hear those words, me and his nan have for the best part always got on really well and she has always been there for the kids, she also sent the others messages when their mom opted out again telling them she is there for them. My son has not been near her bf but my ex has told the youngest they are moving in with him. He is far from pleased and has told his nan he doesn't want to (He can't express his feelings to his mom). His nan has told him that he needs to tell his mom. Last time this happened with my other son he was told to stfu and get on with it...twice. She wants what she wants, end of. He told his nan that if she tries to force him he has options and that dad said I could live with him. So he says "is that still true?" I said everything I tell you is the truth. I reinforced what I have already said to him, that his thoughts, feelings and opinions do matter and I would not turn him away. He hated living with him.
I suggested he start a journal to help him express his emotions and he likes the idea so went went to get him a pad and pens. I told him to keep it in his bag at all times. If his mom sees how he feels she will go mad because it won't line up with what she wants. I know this trust me. He stated she is also being very short and sharp with him, I have no idea what that's all about but it must be relevant for him to mention it. She was always like that with the others but not him, it's a worrying sign.

He also said Friday his mom was very upset. She was drinking because she said she needed to calm herself down. Apparently the bf has been cheating on her with a girl from work . She went through his phone and saw messages saying he loves her, wants to be with her and he just needs to get rid of (ex).

This woman has never been cheated on. I am extremely happy that she finally gets to feel the betrayal of it all. Call me a 2yr old, I honestly don't care.

So they have both cheated on each other in the space of 3 weeks, it's ridiculous. They will probably get back together, I hope so anyway because as I've previously stated, this woman cannot be alone. I told her originally that the best thing would be for her to concentrate on herself and she started visibly shaking, the thought petrifies her.

I have had no contact so far but I am sh1tting myself right now, I am on high alert.

[Wicker Man]

Longterm I don't really know what I can contribute --other than I read your post and feel for you. 

Keep the shiny side up!

[Longterm]

Thanks Wicker man.

It's just ridiculous and it goes on and on and on. I wish she would just drop him at my door and disappear to the other side of the country and leave us to it. There is just never a break, there is always something going on and it keeps us all on edge.

I have PR over him and if he says the words there really is nothing she can do but he has to decide himself. I really feel for him, he loves his mom, he really does and I told him that's more than fine. What she did has affected him and changed his opinion of her. He was always the favourite and did not see why the others have such a low opinion of their mother because he has not been tossed aside like them. He is angry and confused of her behaviour, he is disappointed and it must be hard for him to see that she is not what he thought she was, he has become aware of her dysfunction. He went as far as describing her behaviour as "cycles". This made me sit up straight and I asked him to elaborate. He said she tells people she loves them, then cheats on them and hates them, then says she loves someone else and does it again and then changes her mind. I'm looking at him thinking FFS he's 10.

I've told him he can message/phone me anytime he wants to talk, besides that the decision is in his hands. I will not force him nor will I try to convince him, he knows I am there for him.

[OutOfEgypt]

He said he feels like he can talk to me about anything but he can't with his mom. He said he feels like his relationship with her is going downhill. She is basically living with the bf and is just going home to take him to school and pick him up. He is just left alone at His nan's. I'm really pissed off about this.

I'm really sorry to read this.  My daughters went through this, but our son (the oldest of the kids) has been the hardest to come around because he's had such an unhealthy, obsessive relationship with his mom (both ways).  He's 25 and is "done with her" (mostly tired of her sleeping with his friends), but I know in time he'll probably let her back in.  The girls... don't know.  It's different with them, plus they were younger so got/are getting some stable years with me, now, which is good for them.

But when I was sharing them with my ex, it was hard to watch as I basically had to allow my girls to get hurt by their mom and be there to help them walk through it, without coddling them but also being understanding.  They already knew, sort of, but after I divorced from their mom I was no longer in the household with mom to basically protect them or keep the home stable.  So, they learned that the stability in the home went with dad, and when they went with mom it was a roll of the dice, but usually she was too absorbed into herself and whatever thing or guy she was into at the time to even get herself out of bed to feed them or get them ready for school.  Especially because of the custody arrangement at the time, I had little choice but to let them see, on their own, that they did not want that.  And they did.

That's really good that he has his nan.  It's a hard thing to go through because you aren't there to shield him like before.

This woman has never been cheated on. I am extremely happy that she finally gets to feel the betrayal of it all. Call me a 2yr old, I honestly don't care.

Hahah.  Sending you a virtual beer.  Cheers!

[Longterm]

Hi OOE.

Sounds like your kids have been through the mill too. I too have heard "I'm done with her" many times myself. It is so difficult being the other parent isn't it. I want to tell them all to stay away from her but I can't, it is their relationship, not mine. I have witnessed them hurt over and over, it is a tough situation.

I know what you mean about stability, I always said I was the stabilising factor and it has shown since I've been gone. Things have just gone from bad to worse. She said I was controlling and I think now she feels "free". She did clearly state that "it's time to put myself first now", this is comical when I look back because it was always about her.
My kids know what's what and when this all happened I was petrified of her turning the kids against me, I was told the kids will always gravitate to the more stable parent, this is very true and that's why I sacrificed so much with my saving, to give them some form of normality.

Yes, she is absorbed by this guy right now and nothing else matters, it is as simple as that. She doesn't look at it for what it is, she does not look ahead but when it goes wrong she will expect the sympathy and attention, it really is bizarre. I mean the youngest is the favourite and even he is being pushed aside, I find it shocking, I always thought it would not happen but I think I have to face facts. At some point he will be living with me, maybe not right now but at some point I'm convinced it will happen and he will be in the same boat as the others. Tragic, that's what it is.

Yes, when my other son moved there we were always chatting on the phone because I can have an adult conversation with her, no arguing, no being condescending, nothing but the boys interests at heart. She has always been there for them.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Longterm, I just wanted to say that it sounds like you're doing a really good job of validating and listening to your kids. That must be invaluable to them, that they can come to you with no judgment.

[Longterm]

Thank you for your kind words scarlet.

[OutOfEgypt]

I know what you mean... it is sort of comical when they say things like, "I'm going to start putting myself first, from now on?"  I remember hearing that and thinking, "From now on?"

Sorry you're going through this, and sorry for your kids, too.  I get what you mean about it being their relationship with her, not yours.  That's exactly right.  That's another reason why I somewhat "allowed" them to see her true face (so long as they weren't in danger).  I was not there to soften the relationship.  If they wanted a relationship with mom, they had to see what they were going to deal with... and they did, boy did they.  But I think it has been good for them because they had to learn that it's okay to love mom, but maybe from a distance and by letting go of the desire to win and keep her approval.  They basically had to learn what I learned, but from the perspective of a child-to-mother.

I also understand what you mean about seeking sympathy and attention.  I remember just a few years ago when she got pregnant.  She made a really big deal about it and our youngest daughter was very excited at the idea of being a big sister.  She invited our younger girls and my wife to an ultrasound to see the heartbeat.  Very exciting.  And then a few weeks later, she decided to have an abortion.  Not only was this a shocking let-down for our daughter, but this was right around the time of our daughter's birthday, and she came to the birthday and basically cried to our daughter (10yo) and asked her to comfort her, during her own birthday.  We were livid, but after the birthday it gave us a great opportunity to talk with our daughter about how she felt about that and why she was right to feel like her mom's behavior was wrong and inappropriate.

[Longterm]

I know what you mean... it is sort of comical when they say things like, "I'm going to start putting myself first, from now on?"  I remember hearing that and thinking, "From now on?"

The whole 20yrs was all about her thoughts, feelings and emotions at any given moment. I never thought she was a selfish person, I literally had to be convinced of It, such was my conditioning. Saying that is crazy when I look back. My ex is very narcassistic by nature and I never thought that once. I always felt sorry for her and was fully concentrated on keeping her happy, a fools errand.

Yes, I feel as though they have to go through their own cycles with her.

That's just shocked me what you wrote regarding the abortion. They just appear to be oblivious to the suffering of others, even their own children. The stories I've read always have a similar pattern and they always seem to not care about others. It is shocking.

[OutOfEgypt]

The whole 20yrs was all about her thoughts, feelings and emotions at any given moment. I never thought she was a selfish person, I literally had to be convinced of It, such was my conditioning.

Yes, this.  During the first year of our marriage, I actually had my own ideas and opinions of what was appropriate and not (such a shock).  She would "chat" with other men, including men she dated before me.  I told her that was not okay - I was actually shocked that she thought there was nothing wrong with it.  But I quickly learned that I was wrong and that her thoughts and feelings and emotions were "right" and needed to be at the center of the entire household (at least, if I wanted the relationship to survive... if you can call it that).

[Longterm]

We have much in common OOE, so many of us do.

Shortly before we split my wife was having an emotional (as far as I know) affair with a married woman. I told her it was not ok and she tried to convince me that she told me she was into girls and I had to accept it. She didn't think she was doing anything wrong. I wrote about this previously a while back. She was even telling my daughter that she doesn't know if this woman is her type. My daughter said "mom, your married to my dad". My wife also liked talking to other man and was doing online BDSM sex when I was at work.

I could write a library.