Decided to leave, wondering about my plan

[ThemApples]

Hi all, I'd be interested in your opinions if you care to read and share any thoughts.  Also, I hope this is the right board for this post.  I've been posting a bit on Conflicted, but this is (I hope) a decision to divorce.  But the immediate action is moving out.

I've been married to uBPDh for 17 years, together a few more than that, with one middle-school age child.  Things have been crazy since I was pregnant, and I learned about BPD 6 or 7 years ago (explained a lot).  Despite my efforts in therapy, learning through resources here, and lots of personal work, as well as a few (counterproductive) couples therapy sessions, things have only gone downhill.  I have no hope for a stable, happy relationship, and rationally I think staying is worse for our son (but wow, is that hard to stomach).  

uBPDh is extremely dysregulated when he thinks I'm going to leave.  This has happened several times in the past, and he has extreme physical symptoms (full-body tremors nonstop for days, dilated pupils, sweating, vomiting, can't sleep, won't eat), and extreme emotional symptoms (rapid vacillation between anger, fear, dejection, begging "I'll be good, I'll do better, I'm a good person, please stay, please love me", calling me names, saying I'm playing games with him, etc.).  Last year I actually did decide to leave, and he believed it, and he attacked me physically (shoved me around the kitchen, into furniture, grabbed me, hit me in the head--at least he pulled the punch so it didn't damage, BUT.).  I moved out at that time, but back in after 6 months.  (yep, bad idea)

So, he has clearly demonstrated that when he thinks I'm leaving, he is out of control, unstable, and unhealthy.  He is unable to be stable and comforting for our son (he spent all day today in bed, except to get up and try to argue with me a few times, rather than doing something with our son on Father's Day, because he and have had a very bad few days).  I am leaving on Wednesday for a week-long work trip.  A perfect rental house for me and our son fell into my lap out of the blue yesterday (I live in a small town with extremely limited housing, and it's nearly impossible to find something decent and affordable--so this is a major miracle).  

So, my dilemma, plan, and question:  I told my husband that I would tell him before I looked for another place to rent.  But, I need to lock this one in before I go on my trip, and I don't feel I can tell him before my work trip that I'm moving out, and then leave him to have a breakdown while he's the only one here taking care of our son.  So, I'll wait to tell him until I get back.  There are two downsides to that plan:  1) I will break my word to not tell him about a rental house until after the fact, and 2) it gives me yet another chance to back out and retreat from the difficult "leave" decision (done it so many times.  I KNOW leaving is the right choice, but man is it hard.)  This feels like the best plan, even though I don't like it.

You all have much experience with different aspects of BPD.  What do you think?  Thanks!
A

[loyalwife]

Hi ThemApples,
 
    The history of your husband says that he has and can become physically abusive. The fact that he has shoved you around says he could do it again. I don't blame you for being cautious, especially with a child around. So it's a chicken and egg thing. Should you leave without telling him, to avoid the chaos, or risk telling him and reaping his (fear, anger, etc.). I'm not sure what anyone else will say, but I have genuine fear for you. His reaction to your departure will not be good, it just won't.
     I understand that you don't want to break your word, and not tell him what you are going to do. Did you think that maybe he has asked that you do this so that he can prevent or intercept you from leaving? My advice is to take care of your son and yourself, get a safe place for the two of you to live, and if needed get a protective order. As difficult as it may seem and regardless of how much you want to 'let him down easy', there isn't an easy way.
     You live in a small town. If you are active in a church, talk to your minister about this. If you are not, go to a YWCA, and seek advice on leaving someone that has or could possibly become abusive. The most dangerous time for women leaving, is at the time of exit or right afterwards. Most of all be strong.
     If you decide to tell him first, as you mentioned, it will be another time that you change your mind. He knows this because he knows you. You aren't lying to hurt him, you are making a decision for your future.
     My ubpdh's ex wife did just this. She made the decision and made plans on the day that she would move when he was out of town. When he came back to town, she invited him to a movie, and at dinner told him she had moved out. . I'm sure he dysregulated over it, but she told him in a public place. He left that night to go home, and she went safely to her own place. I would do exactly the same thing, if I were to do this. I could not trust that he would not go totally beserk.
    I hope this has helped. I'm not a professional, but I have the experience. Good luck on what you decide, and keep safe.
     

[GaGrl]

I agree that, based on your husband's last behavior, you need to make plans and decisions with safety in mind. Breaking a promise never feels good, but safety needs to be at the forefront.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hello ThemApples, I can see that you are torn, this is hard stuff.

When leaving, safety is primordial. If you are able to make a Safety Plan and exiting calmly, that's best. Both for your safety and for having the least amount of tension in the aftermath, as you have a son. You can read more about Safety First here. That means not jumping on this lease, though. What do you think?

And I think it's perfectly fine not to feel obligated to keep a promise in this situation.

I KNOW leaving is the right choice, but man is it hard

I know! There's a statistics somewhere on this site, I think it says that 75 % of leavers go back one or more times. The roller coaster is hard to get off. It might help you look at 10 Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck when leaving a relationship with someone with BPD.
 
Let us know how you're doing. We're here to listen and help.

[Harri]

Hi ThemApples!

I moved your thread here to the bettering board because this board is not just for bettering a relationship with a pwBPD.  It is really more about learning tools and skills you will need to navigate your way through any relationship, whether married or not.

You will need to be able to communicate with your husband calmly so that you can have a smoother break up, divorce and while discussing co-parenting issues over the next 10 years or so.

I see Scarlet already shared the Safety First article and I hope you take the time to read through it.

We also have a Domestic Violence Protocol that has been developed in collaboration with DV experts and has helped many of our members in very similar or even worse situations.

How are things with your husband today?

[ThemApples]

Thanks for moving this to the appropriate board!

Today so far my only interaction was him giving me a very fake smile and “fine” as he got up to make coffee right as I was leaving for work. He’s not fine, he’s in constant excruciating pain. I hurt for him too.

The harder thing today is me: I did commit to renting a house, and as many times before, taking a concrete step toward leaving sends me right into a very emotional “noo...but I want it!”, “it” being my fantasy marriage. Which I could make reality if I just worked harder/loved better/reacted less/accepted more/was nicer/etc., right? (I know, I know. Despite my intellectual understanding of what I can do, my gut says BUT I COULD FIX IT!  I know that’s wrong.  But I don’t yet “feel” it’s wrong. (Although I feel that I don’t want to have to fix it!).

Anyway, my feet will be even colder after I leave for a week and we don’t have any difficult interactions for that time, and I’m afraid I’ll back out again, and then kick myself when we’re miserable next time. In a normal pattern, next time that feels bad enough to leave is between 1-6 weeks.

On the safety and DV resources, thank you. I have read them (and others), and I do have plans/resources/contacts in place.  But there’s always the unanticipated turn of events... Thank you for sharing and asking how today is.
 

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Thanking for getting back to us and letting us know how you're doing. I'm relieved to hear that you have a plan in place. Would you mind sharing your exit plan with us? Maybe we can help fine-tune it.

So if I'm understanding this right, you have committed to renting a new place and will leave when you come back from your work trip. Right? Is the thought to leave when he's out of the house, leave a note, note leave a note, talk to him first etc? Just trying to get more of a feel of the situation, so that we'll know better how to support you.

 
Scarlet

[Skip]

How did the move go?

[ThemApples]

Sorry I've been absent.  I haven't moved yet.  I haven't told my uBPDh yet.  We went on separate vacations, and didn't see each other for 10 days.  Our relationship is fantastic when we're apart - I find that different continents works especially well...  Things were hard before vacation until the final day, when I came home from work to find a well-regulated seeming husband, flowers picked from the yard, a lovely note, and a nice dinner made (all three are extraordinarily rare).  Yep, part of the pattern.  But even just a fictional glimpse of what I wish our relationship looked like got under my skin (I don't need flowers - I'd be happy with an emotionally regulated partner!  And maybe relief from cooking dinner once a week

Things were also nice for less than a day after I got back.  Then he was angry and invalidating to our son, I tried to intervene to validate them both and steer the ship back to smooth waters, and he got even more upset, reminded our son that it's his fault when dad gets in trouble with mom, and left the house.  Sigh. 

The next morning he tried some physical closeness.  All I could think of was "how can you do this when you were such a jerk to our son and me, and now you're acting like nothing happened, again?"  So I told him I'd like to talk about it, he said OK, and I did.  He listened and didn't say a word.  Then he got up, left the room, and went back to bed.  Didn't say a word about it the rest of the day.  Today he woke up sad, I asked if he'd like a hug, and he got upset that "he never knows what touch is OK, yesterday it wasn't because he'd been bad to our son, and how is he ever supposed to know?"  I suggested he could ask...but that doesn't seem to be an answer that helps him at all.  All I got after that was "I'll try to be a better dad."  And separately, my son said to me, "I'm sorry I'm not perfect."  How many times can a heart break?  That was another one. 

I'm so insanely tired of the drama.  uBPDh is not going to change.  He's demonstrated no willingness to try, and even if he did, there is no competent mental health assistance within several hours of where we live.  I'm not going to change.  I've tried, and it's made me bitter and resentful.  I've come on a long path to a pretty clear realization that I just want to be myself, without constant beating up from a partner or myself that I should be different.  And I'm tired of having to accommodate him.  Please no lectures about boundaries as I've gotten on this site in the past.  I've done years and years of work on boundaries and the result is that I know myself better and am better equipped to know, articulate, adjust, and maintain them, but at the same time, it's made my relationship worse.  Boundaries are a threat to him - in exactly so many of his words.  A threat and a punishment, and there should be no boundaries in a relationship in his view.  OK, so I tried years without using the word boundaries, but it didn't help.  Anyway, I've used up all my patience and resilience and trying, and I'm done.  Which would bring me back around to moving...

But every time I get to the point of actually deciding to tell him, I panic.  That panic is fear of my own guilt, fear of hurting him (so codependent, so much work into that over the years too...again, I understand myself much better, but am no closer to change).  I don't want to be the one who, in my own eyes and his words to all of our community, gave up and didn't keep trying.  The panic is also fear of the consequences for our son.  If he is potentially predisposed to BPD, and being regularly invalidated by his father, will separation and the anxiety and stress and feeling of abandonment worsen his risk for developing BPD?  Maybe.  Maybe it will be better.  No way to know.  I do know it's not good now, and separation might be better.  Or it might be worse.  I hate it that I'm so paralyzed about this - I'd think very poorly of anyone else who was in this situation and not just leaving. 


That was long and disorganized.  I just want to go on a camping trip with the family.  Well, with our son, and the husband I wish he was.  Which isn't fair to anyone.  And what I should do instead is listen to a decade of journal entries saying I should leave, and think about the dozens of times over those years that I've made arrangements to leave but haven't followed through, and stop wasting any more of my life and do it. 

[Skip]

I hate it that I'm so paralyzed about this - I'd think very poorly of anyone else who was in this situation and not just leaving. 

Have you ever read this?
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136322.0

Can you paint your picture?

[ThemApples]

Well. My story on why I stay, unfiltered. I know the truth that much of what’s here is flawed reasoning, but they’re the real feelings keeping me stuck nonetheless.

1. I can fix it if I try harder to be patient, understanding, loving, validating, accommodating, etc.  I know this is not true. But my gut believes it.

2. He’s not abusive, he’s got the emotional maturity of a 2 year old (if that), and the emotional understanding and behavior to match.  His own demons cause him fear and anxiety, and he reacts in pain, in the equivalent of a toddler’s unregulated temper tantrum.  It used to be more verbal abuse (and not much, but my threshold is zero, so anything more than that is infinite and unacceptable to me), but now he dives into the extreme victim role at the drop of a hat. I looked at him wrong. I thought he did something wrong. I disapproved. I thought he was a bad parent. Sometimes I do disapprove and he is reading an expression accurately. Sometimes he imagines it.

3. I stayed for my son. To buffer, divert, soothe, validate, teach. To give emotional/mental health first aid after his father is dysregulated and/or invalidating. To try to show his father a better way. Also wrong, my mind knows. My heart doesn’t agree.

4. I want both of us to see our son every day. I want my son to see us. My own father is an alcoholic and was distant and scary when I was a child. I want my son to have a loving, present dad. My husband is that...some of the time. If I leave, I’m afraid he’ll lise his ability to be that very much at all.

5. His intentions are good and he loves me, as much as he can love. It’s really mostly need and fear of abandonment, not what I’d like love to be, but it’s what he’s got and he believes 100% that it’s love. I loved him too, once. I wish I did, still.

6.  I read somewhere that to pwBPD, the fear of abandonment is like being a toddler in Times Square on NYE and you’ve lost hold of your mom’s hand in the crowd. You’ve lost your all-important source of love, identity, and survival.  How could I do that to him?  Even though I think that’s not at all what a relationship between equal partners should be - unfortunately I chose my partner unwisely and we’re not equals. Would I leave because he developed a physical disability?  

7.  It broke while I was holding it, so I bought it. Not my fault, so not quite “you break it, you bought it”, but nonetheless how can I just discard it now that it’s broken?

8.  I might be crippled with self-imposed guilt if I leave. I should have tried harder. I’m the rational, mature one. I should be able to fix it, or at least tolerate it better and find some joy in what I have.

9. It would be admitting failure. And giving up hope. (Note to self: hope <> wishful thinking)

10.  I wouldn’t be able to control what happens.

11.  I don’t have the faintest idea how to just tell him, when we’re not fighting mad, that I’m leaving. It would feel like such a betrayal of his love and hope and efforts.

[Skip]

1. I can fix it if I try harder...
2. He’s not abusive...
3. I stayed for my son...
4. I want both of us to see our son every day...
5. His intentions are good and he loves me...
6.  Would I leave because he developed a physical disability...?  
7.  It broke while I was holding it, so I bought it...
8.  I might be crippled with self-imposed guilt...
9. It would be admitting failure...
10.  I wouldn’t be able to control...
11.  I don’t have the faintest idea how to just tell him...

One value of a support group is to be encouraged to look at things differently to see if it provides insight.

The list is consistent with your other posts, and its a very altruistic and self-sacrificing list but is it the true force that keeps you stuck in a "don't want to work on it, don't want to leave it mode".

The article ends with:

                    "This truth is frequently lost on both"

Is this possible in your home?

[ThemApples]

My first answer was “of course”.  Then, “I don’t have any idea”.  I guess if it’s lost on me, I don’t know it.

If you have ideas about what the “true force” keeping me stuck is, if not that list, I’m all ears. I don’t mean that to be snarky at all - I imagine you have heard/read a lot on at least this forum that might be valuable perspective to consider.

To narrow in on two fundamental things:
1) I have been actively working on it for seven years. Individual therapy (a lot for me, a little for him), couples therapy, extensive reading, putting new knowledge and advice into practice, etc. Over this time, things have only gotten worse. I don’t have any more hope that working on it will help it become a relationship that I want to stay in. There is certainly room for continuing to work on how we interact as co-parents even if I leave.

2) Sex and physical intimacy are his primary love language. I have zero interest, and doubt it will return. I’m sure you can hear the pity and disappointment and lack of admiration and trust in my previous posts. Desire can’t coexist with those, for me.

He can’t give me what I need—a stable, emotionally competent, equal partner. I can’t give him what he needs—genuine desire and someone who makes him feel loved. We’ve both been doing our best throughout, but I think we’re fundamentally incompatible. We’ve tried our best for many years, and I don’t have anything more or different to give. I’m exhausted, and the idea of continuing to work on it sounds like I just keep putting up with constant invalidation, not getting any joy or comfort or peace, and continuing to spend every spare moment trying to find/learn about/practice something different/better to make a change.

Guess your phrasing “not wanting to work on it” pushed a button. It feels like another suggestion that I should just try harder, put more into it. All I’ve done with my life for many years is work on my relationship, and it hasn’t succeeded. So—I am not doing it right?  Not enough?  I should want to work on it more?

Sorry. I have a problem with “should”, and a chip on my shoulder. I am very sad and stressed today, after another difficult interaction this morning. I think the exhaustion has set me back a lot, to an inflexible position of “I want him to change and be who I want, and I don’t want to do any more work myself, I just want to be me and have that be ok.”  Unfair and unrealistic and unproductive, I know. I’m just tired of the sadness and stress every. day.

Skip, thanks for your interactions. I really appreciate it. I apologize for my grouchiness.

[Skip]

Sorry. I have a problem with “should”...

No one said "should"... except you (10x).  

If you have ideas about what the “true force” keeping me stuck is, if not that list, I’m all ears. I don’t mean that to be snarky at all...

My first suggestion is to ask yourself if you are ready for support. It's a give and take proposition and it requires openness and vulnerability. It's not easy.

In a nutshell, your thinking is stuck. You said this about yourself. In my opinion, the only way to get "unstuck" is to let go of the "log jamming" thoughts and perceptions that you currently have and start over - rethink this.

There are lots of parts to your "log jamming" thoughts that can be challenged.  There are also a number of things that you aren't considering, that, if you do, may help.  And, don't be defensive... it will drive those that want to help to scatter.  

Is the first step of leaving about renting an apartment? Probably not. Does you husband want to live with a women who visualizes his masculinity as being a lost 2 year old in Times Square crying for his mommy.  Probably not. Can you son thrive if you both have separate residences and are cooperative co-parents? Is it worse than being in a loveless home? Probably not. Do you need to cut the cord one Tuesday afternoon - go cold turkey? Probably not.

See my point?

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains;
And we never even know we have the key ~ Don Henley

[ThemApples]

Yes, I’m the one who says “should”; that’s my problem. Didn’t mean to imply you were saying it, sorry.

I guess what I wanted was support for my decision to leave (hence the original title of my post). I know there is a policy against advising to run, but I felt like what I got was advice to slow down and work on it. It feels hurtful rather than helpful — I know it’s not meant that way — so I’m signing off. Thanks and best wishes to all.   

[sweetheart]

ThemApples, Skip is challenging your thought processes because I can hear in your words that you are tying yourself up in knots and tangles that are preventing you from actually moving forward. Whatever you choose to do, stay or go, you are currently stuck and not moving at all.

Someone here suggesting that you should leave would still not be the right response for you at the moment.

Living with a pwBPD can cause this kind of chaos, that’s why this board exists, to help you pick apart and analyse what is happening.

Is it possible your response to what has been written here comes directly from feeling hurt and unsupported in your relationship?
. Do you see how your leaving this forum might possibly repeat self-destructive patterns of behaviour that you have been using in your relationship?

slowing down and  working on yourself potentially  opens up endless possibilities for you to enter into a different conversation with your pwBPD that maybe about leaving, but with a different outlook for you and your family.

The reason this board says not to run, is because running in situations as complex as the ones we all bring to these boards are likely to cause us to fall and hurt ourselves. Hurting ourselves more is what we are all actively trying to avoid here. 

[I Am Redeemed]

ThemApples,

Staying or leaving are highly personalized decisions unique to an individual and his or her circumstances. We are not here to tell you that you "should" stay and work on the relationship; nor are we here to tell you that you "should" leave. That decision is yours. What we are here to do is to help you look at the healthiest way to execute whatever decision you make, and support you in that.

[Skip]

I understand that you don't want to break your word… You aren't lying to hurt him, you are making a decision for your future.
~ loyalwife

Breaking a promise never feels good, but safety needs to be at the forefront. ~ GaGrl

If you are able to make a Safety Plan and exiting calmly, that's best. ~ Scarlet Phoenix

I moved your thread here to the bettering board because this board is not just for bettering a relationship with a pwBPD.  It is really more about learning tools and skills you will need to navigate your way through any relationship, whether married or not. You will need to be able to communicate with your husband calmly so that you can have a smoother break up, divorce and while discussing co-parenting issues over the next 10 years or so. ~ Harri

Would you mind sharing your exit plan with us? Maybe we can help fine-tune it. ~ Scarlet Phoenix

All of the posters have responded to your plan to leave with ideas to make it safer, less stressful.

your thinking is stuck. You said this about yourself. In my opinion, the only way to get "unstuck" is to let go of the "log jamming" thoughts and perceptions that you currently have and start over - rethink this. ~ Skip

When you backed out and said you felt "stuck", we shifted to a discussion about how to unravel the feelings of being "Conflicted". This specific board is dedicated to members in this dilemma. You are not alone.

It feels hurtful rather than helpful — I know it’s not meant that way — so I’m signing off. Thanks and best wishes to all.    

We're here for you when you are ready. If not today or tomorrow, then next month. Staying will be hurtful. Leaving will be hurtful. It all will be hurtful for you, your husband, you son. Where you are today is a complex assembly of years of relationship dynamics and family dynamics - a conglomerate - and unraveling it all to understand it, to assess it, to take constructive action may have invalidating aspects to it. These things are complex.

We often refer to these relationships as too bad to stay, too good to leave. It's easy to get "stuck".

[AskingWhy]

All good advice, Apples.    Hugs to you.   

Have you taken the MOSAIC inventory on personal safety?  This is a must for anyone considering leaving a hurtful R/S.  It is free and anonymous.

https://www.mosaicmethod.com/