I finally gave up asking

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My wife had a brief but torrid sexual affair 19 years ago.  She refused marriage counseling, but instead went to individual therapy.  She said she had to concentrate on herself.  She did that for three years, and there was no improvement.  She basically snowed the therapist, and turned most sessions into husband bashing.  It was pretty much one sided marriage counseling.

Since then she has seen 6 other therapists, and there has been no improvement because they concentrate on other things, ie depression, adhd.

She was finally diagnosed with traits of BPD 2 years ago, but there is no DBT in our area.  She refused to read anything on the subject.

She's been off and on SSRI's for years, and has been trying to wean off Zoloft for two years, and it's a night mare.  Each step down brings the anger, the crying, and cruelty.  She's down to 3 mg/day from 50.  It's probably going to take another year.

She has been clean now for about a year, but got hooked on Vicodins in 1993 and stayed hooked on one thing or another for the next 25 years.  Klonopin, Neurotin, Ambien-during the day, many times combining them all.  She's lucky to be alive.  During her peak, she was taking 10 vicodins a day, with a few of the other drugs mixed in, and almost a liter of vodka a night.

After her affair, she refused to do anything to repair our marriage.  Books bought, but never read.  Support boards where she gave expert advice, but followed none of it.  Hid 90% of the affair details, and crushes/infatuations with other men.

She would answer questions reluctantly, if at all.  And usually answered them in anger.  My pain would always bring about her getting angry at me, or her crying her eyes out.  Any time I expressed an emotion about the affair, she would overwhelm it with her exaggerated emotions.

I finally gave up asking, and tucked this thing aside, but it all came boiling to the top of my consciousnesses three and half years ago.  I told her I wanted to improve our marriage.  I wrote out a list of the things that have affected our marriage, and I was careful to take my share of the blame.  I took half the blame.  She never responded to the list.  She just tucked it away.

So, now 19 years later, I'm asking for details.  And every single time, it ends up with her crying her eyes out, getting angry at me, smashing things, slamming out of the house.  I can't tell you how many times she has screamed at me, "I'm not angry!"  Or how many times she has screamed, "How many times do I have to say I'm sorry".  Uhhh..  How about at least one real empathetic, compassionate apology.  Her apologies always seem to somehow hurt her.

I know I'm rambling here, but I'm drowning.  Yesterday I found an old Bible she gave me after we had been together for 8 months.  The Bible had a very nice note written in the cover, and the date it was given to me.

Turns out it was 3 weeks before she cheated on me for the second.  I just found out about these two infidelities last year. Thirty five years after the fact...

Sorry for rambling.  I don't know what I'm asking.  I'm just writing.

As much as I would like to run away, and just be alone until I die (I'm 64 and not in the best of health), we have a 16 year old, and I won't leave him alone with her.

I will stay to give him as much balance as I can, and to protect him from her.  He's already showing signs of BPD.  He's becoming nonemotional, and withdrawn.  Seems very depressed.

[Old Quaker]

My wife had a brief but torrid sexual affair 19 years ago.  She refused marriage counseling, but instead went to individual therapy.  She said she had to concentrate on herself.  She did that for three years, and there was no improvement.  She basically snowed the therapist, and turned most sessions into husband bashing.  It was pretty much one sided marriage counseling.

Since then she has seen 6 other therapists, and there has been no improvement because they concentrate on other things, ie depression, adhd.

She was finally diagnosed with traits of BPD 2 years ago, but there is no DBT in our area.  She refused to read anything on the subject.

She's been off and on SSRI's for years, and has been trying to wean off Zoloft for two years, and it's a night mare.  Each step down brings the anger, the crying, and cruelty.  She's down to 3 mg/day from 50.  It's probably going to take another year.

She has been clean now for about a year, but got hooked on Vicodins in 1993 and stayed hooked on one thing or another for the next 25 years.  Klonopin, Neurotin, Ambien-during the day, many times combining them all.  She's lucky to be alive.  During her peak, she was taking 10 vicodins a day, with a few of the other drugs mixed in, and almost a liter of vodka a night.

After her affair, she refused to do anything to repair our marriage.  Books bought, but never read.  Support boards where she gave expert advice, but followed none of it.  Hid 90% of the affair details, and crushes/infatuations with other men.

She would answer questions reluctantly, if at all.  And usually answered them in anger.  My pain would always bring about her getting angry at me, or her crying her eyes out.  Any time I expressed an emotion about the affair, she would overwhelm it with her exaggerated emotions.

I finally gave up asking, and tucked this thing aside, but it all came boiling to the top of my consciousnesses three and half years ago.  I told her I wanted to improve our marriage.  I wrote out a list of the things that have affected our marriage, and I was careful to take my share of the blame.  I took half the blame.  She never responded to the list.  She just tucked it away.

So, now 19 years later, I'm asking for details.  And every single time, it ends up with her crying her eyes out, getting angry at me, smashing things, slamming out of the house.  I can't tell you how many times she has screamed at me, "I'm not angry!"  Or how many times she has screamed, "How many times do I have to say I'm sorry".  Uhhh..  How about at least one real empathetic, compassionate apology.  Her apologies always seem to somehow hurt her.

I know I'm rambling here, but I'm drowning.  Yesterday I found an old Bible she gave me after we had been together for 8 months.  The Bible had a very nice note written in the cover, and the date it was given to me.

Turns out it was 3 weeks before she cheated on me for the second.  I just found out about these two infidelities last year. Thirty five years after the fact...

Sorry for rambling.  I don't know what I'm asking.  I'm just writing.

As much as I would like to run away, and just be alone until I die (I'm 64 and not in the best of health), we have a 16 year old, and I won't leave him alone with her.

I will stay to give him as much balance as I can, and to protect him from her.  He's already showing signs of BPD.  He's becoming nonemotional, and withdrawn.  Seems very depressed.

[Enabler]

I can totally understand your need for details and your need for accountability. People's narrative, peoples truth is important to them and just knowing, just hearing her say what you probably knows brings a sense of acknowledgement and accountability.

The thing is, if she shows traits of BPD, she likely has somewhat of an allergy to guilt and shame... and she will do almost anything to avoid the pain and discomfort of those emotions. You can't force someone to be accountable for their wrongs.

What else is going on your relationship? The affair(s) which sound like they were some time ago aside, what is the general behaviour like, has anything happened?

How have you managed to stay in the relationship for such a long time, in what you seem to describe as a dead marriage?

We're here for you

Enabler

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi
That's a long time to sit with the pain. It's not under happy circumstances, but I'm glad you found your way here. You are in safe company here.

How is the relationship between your wife and your son?

[Enabler]

Is there anything specific you would like help with?

I don't know if we can give you the answers you're looking for, but we might be able to help you get to a place where you can understand why you're not getting those answers. We can also help you with your current challenges and look at ways for you to move forwards emotionally.

Enabler

[Enabler]

Hey old Quaker, hows it going? Any updates?

[Old Quaker]

I finally just gave up.  Moving to SC in a bit...  Finally had enough.

[Cat Familiar]

How are you feeling about this move, Old Quaker?

[Old Quaker]

As with most things, conflicted.

I mean I have a great sense of relief that she will not be able to damage me anymore.

But, I also know that I am damaged permanently.  And I'm in hurry to see a shrink.  Shrinks have hurt our marriage just as much as my wife did.  She has seen 7 shrinks in all.  The first was a male who continually made sexually inappropriate remarks.  She saw him for three years, and nothing was accomplished.  Saw 6 more, all female.  Two of them actually told her they understood why she had the affair because of my height.

They both told her we were physically incompatible and that she should find someone else.

There are some things a man can't "unsee".
There are some things a man can't "unhear"
And there are some things a man can't "unread"

I've been told things that no man could recover from.

Could you recover from being told the reason you wife walks ahead of you is because she's embarrassed to be seen in public with you?  Because of the difference our heights.  Makes her feel bad about herself.

Could you heal from being told your wife needed to be sexual with another man so she could experience sexual things only people the same height can do?  And have it explained as "it was only one week".  Or, "It was just sex, I don't know what the big deal is?, I told you I would be back?  It was all explained in brutal honesty detail.  Sex standing up, sex standing in the shower.  Being able to walk hand in hand in public without people staring.  Kissing on the Atlantic City Boardwalk in public, in broad day light.  Went on and on about how great kissing standing up was, and how great it was to be "invisible" as she put it.

Or could you heal from looking at your wife's private area, and "seeing the proof" that she just had sex with another man the night before?  Three times to be exact.

And could you heal from reading 6 months of daily cybersex with another man, with most of trashing me for my "short comings"?  About how why she didn't know why she married me.  And that she had to get out of our marriage before our child adoption went through.  Telling him she had to buy a large sex toy to relive the affair.  Telling him that he ruined sex for her with us.

Or maybe from knowing your wife has a collection of about 50 sex toys that she uses after having sex with you.  Or goes to bed early, so she can please herself?

Well, I can't.  My soul is crushed.  I'm 64, in poor health, and I'm not looking forward to any sort of "new life".

I just want to hang out in "God's waiting room", in peace, until I pass.

[AskingWhy]

Could you heal from being told your wife needed to be sexual with another man so she could experience sexual things only people the same height can do?  And have it explained as "it was only one week".  Or, "It was just sex, I don't know what the big deal is?, I told you I would be back?

Dear Quaker, I am so sorry this is happening to you.      Your W's open and unapologetic abuse is bizarre, to say the least.

Like you, my uBPD H had found other romances outside of our marriage to make up for what he was missing emotionally--with his own children.  (Covert incest.)  He values their love and company more than mine.  When we first married and his children were all very young, I was a quick replacement for when his uNPD wife discarded him to marry a lover, taking all of the children (then all under five) across the country after the divorce. In their absence, H made up fantasy dreams about them and idealised them.  I was a "placeholder" of attention and a sexual outlet until his children grew up.

I foolishly thought he married me because he loved me for being myself.  Within six months, H's true nature revealed itself.  He needed a babysitter to care for the children while he continued to work.  I cared for all of this children during the day, feeding them, guiding them and giving them consequences, such as denying them sweets/snacks before dinner, and other things parents are supposed to do.  When he came home from work, the discipline was swept away, and I was made out to be the wicked stepmother.  H would routinely insult me and reprimand me in front of his children.  They abused both him and attempted to abuse me, including many passive aggressive actions and emotional black mail.  Now all the children are almost 30 and all likely in the BPD/NPD spectrum themselves, and my H has no more use for me.  He is free to "date" his children (including a drug-addicted, homeless son) upon whom he showers money. To be honest, when he is preparing for these dates, he showers, wears cologne, styles his hair, and has an excited look of a man anticipating sex filled date with an attractive woman.  I have seen photos of these dates on social media, and H looks supremely happy and in an ecstatic state of mind.  With me, he has nothing but resentment and rage.

This has been hard for me to accept.

Some psychologists have bought into gender theory where men of any stripe are "toxic," and a woman is free to be on her own and say/do anything she pleases.  Some might even suggest an extramarital affair as "liberating and empowering."  Many are totally blind to the mechanisms of personality disorders and their impact on partners.  Can you imagine if a man wanted to insult a women, have abusive extra marital affairs because she was "too tall" or "too short," or that people would stare in public when they walked together?  Your W's actions are clearly a form of "height shaming" and a form of abusive prejudice.  Sadly, there is even a racial bias among married couples.

I went to MC with my H years ago, and H had the T eating out of his hand in three sessions.  She sided with my H and ordered me to straighten up or I would lose the man who loves me.  This was a licensed mental health professional.  SMH  Many such professionals have little knowledge of PDs, and only seek to validate the patient without providing a wide angle impartial view of a person's problems.  

Your height and hers bear little relationship to your W's behavior and insults.  She is making a choice to insult you.  She is not compassionately trying to find a solution, nor even letting you go with love.  Incompatible anatomy can most often be accommodated with the help of a doctor's advice or even a good book.  Your W, like my H, is abusive.  Period.

Be well, Quaker.  You are still young and many women would love to date you at your age.  Your are not old by any stretch.  You are an insightful man with great compassion, and sadly have allowed your W to use you as a doormat for her ego. Just this past weekend, my H called me an old, angry hag.  This is not your fault; it happened to me, too. (For the record, I have the look of a woman 10 years younger, and a figure better than many women half my age, including one of his own Ds.)

Please find peace.  Find healing and move on.  Your W is not the only fish in the sea.