Today Was The Day. Sigh.

[toomanydogs]

well...

i showed up. my stbx showed up. my stbx-fil's lawyers showed up. the facilitator showed up.

i "settled" for much less than i'd wanted (for a number of reasons), and i said i would negotiate a possible NDA.

i was okay with what i did, and i felt good that i was trying to work with these people.

if it had just been between my stbx and me, we would have had a settlement. but the stbx-fil got involved.

he told me i could have all the household stuff i requested, and instead of agreeing to what i thought was reasonable (too long to go into right now), he offered the prenup, less interim he paid because i'd turned down a previous offer.

my L and i left. looks like court may be the next step.

tmd

[GaGrl]

So you do NOT have an agreement?

[Turkish]

Non Disclosure Agreement?

[toomanydogs]

So you do NOT have an agreement?

We do not have an agreement.
Next step: back to settlement maybe. Or trial.
TMD

[toomanydogs]

Non Disclosure Agreement?

Yes. A non disclosure agreement, specifically so I do not disparage them. At this point, I’m no longer thinking I’ll sign an NDA.
I’m willing not to talk about the money, but the past 11 years has taught me a great deal. I want to share that.
TMD

[Turkish]

Is an NDA typical? (Anyone?). That seems a 1st Amendment issue.

[formflier]

Is an NDA typical? (Anyone?). That seems a 1st Amendment issue.

I'm imagining that this settlement will have lots of zeros.

non-disparagement and a covenant not to sue are standard.  If I was on either side...I would advise you NOT to take a settlement unless those were present.

The NDA part of this will list out who you can talk to this about.  lawyers, accountants..etc etc

These agreements will work both ways.  If you can get them to sign one for you..but not them...great..but I can't imagine that would work.  Definitely do not sign unless it covers you.

Hey TMD...can you help me understand why you seem to be "backing down"?   Going for less.

I suspect that is feeding FIL and getting him to push harder. 

Best,

FF

[toomanydogs]

Hey TMD...can you help me understand why you seem to be "backing down"?   Going for less.

I suspect that is feeding FIL and getting him to push harder. 

Best,

FF

The facilitator told me that in my county the standard of living is such that it would be unlikely that I'd get close to what I asked for.

And there was language in the prenup about maintaining standard of living, but i just looked at the prenup again and what it says is MAY not be able to maintain standard of living. does not WILL NOT.

I don't know, FF. I felt pressured yesterday, and I'm not sure how the judge would decide.

But I guess it's a moot point because it looks like we'll go to trial, and then we are free to ask for more, and I will.

God, I'm tired.

TMD

[GaGrl]

Of it goes to trial, can you compel the discovery ?

[toomanydogs]

Of it goes to trial, can you compel the discovery ?

Yes, in fact my lawyer is drafting a motion to compel. and my STBX's lawyer requested an extension to respond to settlement offer. I asked that we not grant an extension. I didn't do this, and I need it to move forward.
TMD

[Newyoungfather]

Hello TMD,
Keep your head up, looking back at my previous court experiences, BPD's are somewhat entitled.  In my state after the facilitator meeting fails in negotiation, there will be a pretrial conference in front of the judge.  The judge sometimes hints was the law is but you and your attorney have to read through the lines.   

[flourdust]

From my experience, a judge will look at both of your budgets for reasonableness. Do both parties have enough to get by, without nonessentials and padded numbers? The judge will also look at sources of income as a flat ceiling. So, if your ex has $10K per month income, and both of your budgets (even adjusted downward to a level of covering basic expenses) add up to $12K, then $2K is going to be cut from your maintenance amount. The money just isn't there.

A judge may look at your budget from the perspective of how much money is needed to get by (probably with some lifestyle changes), not what standard of living you maintain.

[toomanydogs]

From my experience, a judge will look at both of your budgets for reasonableness. Do both parties have enough to get by, without nonessentials and padded numbers? The judge will also look at sources of income as a flat ceiling. So, if your ex has $10K per month income, and both of your budgets (even adjusted downward to a level of covering basic expenses) add up to $12K, then $2K is going to be cut from your maintenance amount. The money just isn't there.

A judge may look at your budget from the perspective of how much money is needed to get by (probably with some lifestyle changes), not what standard of living you maintain.

Hey Flourdust,
   Here's the issue for me: My STBX is living on five times what I'm living on, and what the facilitator pushed me to agree to brings my per-year earnings below what I was making when I first met my STBX
   That said, I was willing to take a lump sum for that amount because I could invest it, and it should enable me to at least get by.
   And that said... I will not sign an NDA with a non-disparagement clause. What I told my L was that I've been working as a writer and editor for close to 30 years, and the settlement is so low, I will need to bring in extra income. A non-disparagement clause means: 1) That I can no longer write the story of these past 11 years, most particularly of the never-ending divorce because the actions my STBX-FIL engaged in speak for themselves: They make him look bad, and, in all likelihood, would affect his reputation. Not my problem. and 2) It means that my STBX-FIL would be breathing down my neck for the rest of my life, poring over anything I write. The non-disparagement clause is what my STBX-FIL wants not my STBX.
  And if he wants that non disparagement clause, then he needs to make it worth my while financially.
  The story of this divorce, because my FIL is a fairly public person, might not be an "easy" sell, but I'm pretty sure it would sell.
  So that's where I'm at. And I also realized this morning that one of the things my L has worried about is that to go to trial she needs an advance on attorney fees. I realized this morning that I can get an equity loan on my house, with the understanding if this goes to trial, we ask for legal fees.
TMD

[formflier]

If you won't do NDA...then go to trial. 

Settlement = NDA.  Almost always.  I agree with your point about needing to use the story.

In the proposed settlement would you be getting more than if the prenup was honored? (that would seem to be the "base"...IMO.

Best,

FF

[toomanydogs]

If you won't do NDA...then go to trial. 

Settlement = NDA.  Almost always.  I agree with your point about needing to use the story.

In the proposed settlement would you be getting more than if the prenup was honored? (that would seem to be the "base"...IMO.

Best,

FF

I was just thinking about you, FF, and how you told me to be a troll. This may not be "troll" behavior, but...

I just withdrew my settlement offer. STBX has until Monday at noon to respond; however, his lawyer asked for an extension. I asked it not be granted, and what I did just now (and I'm up really really early) is run an alimony calculator for my state.

The calculator gives me about 50% more than that settlement offer. So I sent that info to my lawyer, and told her I'm withdrawing the offer. Way I'm looking at it, the language in the offer says it's good until Monday, the STBX L has asked for a 10 day extension, which I didn't agree to.

I'm hoping that calculator is correct, and, if so, I prefer taking my chances with the judge even if I were to go pro se.

Here's to TMD embracing her troll-like nature.

   

TMD

[flourdust]

An 11 year marriage likely means about 5 years of alimony, normally, unless you can demonstrate you're unable to support yourself as a result of the marriage.

[MeandThee29]

An 11 year marriage likely means about 5 years of alimony, normally, unless you can demonstrate you're unable to support yourself as a result of the marriage.

Or unless the paying spouse is retired and cannot work.

[toomanydogs]

An 11 year marriage likely means about 5 years of alimony, normally, unless you can demonstrate you're unable to support yourself as a result of the marriage.

I'm past retirement age, hence, the permanent alimony.

[MeandThee29]

I'm past retirement age, hence, the permanent alimony.

Lucky ducky. I'm not there yet and can work. He is there and cannot work. So part of his pension to me but no alimony.

However, I made so little in 2018 that my government tax rate was negative. It won't be much better in 2019 at this rate, but I'm still looking for work. Maybe soon.