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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Alcohol and BPD equals a bad dysregulation  (Read 940 times)
AskingWhy
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« on: July 05, 2019, 02:44:05 AM »

Today's Fourth of July party was a drunk fest with uBPD H and his buddies.

It was a small gathering of H and his old military buddies, our families and some friends.  They each drank about 12 beers each over a period of about 8 hours.  That said, H was drunk.  He was laughing and slurring his words. When H is drunk, he is obnoxious.  He said how much he loved me, how much he liked seeing my siblings at the party and was glad I was getting along with them.

I don't like being around H when he is drunk.  After all guests went home (designated drivers for all the drunks, so don't worry...), H was rather merry about the party, having seen the adult children of friends and several of my relatives.  He was disappointed that one of his adult children elected to attend a party with friends her own age.  He was very upset by it.

I pointed this out to H and he turned his rage onto me--in a heartbeat.   His D (uBPD) is an adult and wanted to spend the holiday with friends rather than her F's old military drinking mates.  (H's X W is uNPD and left him to marry the lover she found when H was overseas in the military.  All the children were still in nappies.  As a result, H overvalued/still overvalues his adult children with whom he is enmeshed.  H split me black while splitting his children white.  He allowed them to emotionally blackmail him as teens and young adults, and he allowed them to (this is, attempt to) emotionally abuse me, seeing how he valued them over me.  BPDs see their children as extensions of themselves as they have no boundaries.)

He started breaking glassware in the kitchen sink, throwing dirty dishes and soapy water in the kitchen and making divorce threats, said this was the right time he was waiting for to divorce me, and so on.  H was projecting his disappointment over his D at me and I was not having it.  The terrified pets fled to corners of the house.  He said I was "always" making insulting comments about his adult children.  I saw the splitting for what it was, told him I would not converse with a drunk and took his pillow and blankets from our bed to the living room sofa and told him to sleep there and sober up.  I told him his drunkenness disgusted me, and that if he wants to impress me, getting drunk was not the way to go about it, and in his current state I would not converse with him.  At this moment, he is drunk and sleeping on the sofa.

I know BPDs are filled with self loathing and fear of abandonment, but at that moment, I wanted him to know he could not emotionally abuse me and try to scare me with symbolic violence or divorce threats.  I told him if he continued to carry on, I would call the police and he'd be taken away as a drunk.  He then said he would really divorce me.  Then the usually name calling:  c*nt, b*tch and flipping the bird at me, followed by the "f*ck you." 

My first reaction was to cry but I did not.  My own self esteem prevented it.  I thought, "How dare this drunk,  infantile, abusive S O B talk to me that way?"  Things had been improving a bit and he hadn't made divorce threats for about three whole months. I usually got them almost every week for the last 12 years of our 20+ years of marriage. 

All of the pain H caused me in the past years--the bleeding emotional wounds--are now tough and hardened callouses.  I am letting him wallow in his stupidity.  I hope he gets an enormous hang over.  It will serve him right.  I am tapped out of empathy tonight.



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sweetheart
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2019, 04:47:49 AM »

Your title thread reads BPD + alcohol = bad dysregulation, did you know this before what happened?

My dbpdh had some of his worst dysregulations ever when combined with alcohol.

What could you have done differently, thinking about the skills we use here, that might have reduced the worst excesses of your h's dysregulation?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2019, 05:51:14 AM »

What did you point out to him? That his adult child wasn't there, or that she'd rather be with her friends than him?


You are really angry at him, for many reasons, but you also know that his attachment to his children is a trigger point for him. His drunken rage was over the top, indicating that he was somehow triggered by your comments. He's responsible for his behavior- and it wasn't good behavior, but also - knowing his drunk- was this something necessary to say to him?

Part of our work in relationships is to reduce drama- whether we stay or leave ( because even divorce takes communication at times). It's important to not walk on eggshells, to avoid saying things out of fear of provoking- when there is something necessary to say. However, I think we also need to be mindful of when we are saying something hurtful or provocative and ask- is this necessary?

I'm sure he saw that his adult child wasn't there. What was the reason to point it out?
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GaGrl
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2019, 10:45:50 AM »

If you can remember exactly how you phrased your comment, perhaps we can help with a rephrase. It's a learning opportunity -- won't change what went down but could help next time something similar comes up.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2019, 11:34:00 AM »

I worked with a 12 step co-dependency sponsor on not using the word "you". It's awkward to not use it but it helped me become aware of when I was saying hurtful or triggering things.

It's really hard to resist pointing out things when it's a topic we are resentful of. I tend to do this too. But it also contributes to drama.

Whether or not we are staying in a relationship or if we even want to improve it or not, it helps to not add to the drama.

You've got a lot of resentment over your H's attachment to his children- and it is understandable. I don't think that's going to change- I don't think anything you can say or do will change that. Since you are still with him- is there some way you can find some peace with this?
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2019, 02:03:31 PM »

This is my first day of the board, and I'm new to all this - so maybe people get comfortable and used to reading these stories - but I'm not there yet. So I just have to say I'm sorry you are dealing with this.
My wife started outpatient rehab to get off a two bottle of wine day habit few days ago.  So I'm hopeful - though it is certainly getting worse before it gets better. 
I don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry.   
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Red5
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2019, 10:00:11 PM »

I am so sorry that you are once again enduring this negative and dysfunctional behavior from your husband AskingWhy.

You’ve endured this for a long time, I’ve not much to say other than you are a good person, and you don’t deserve this yet again.

Please know as always you are in our hearts and prayers tonight.

Hang in there, and I sincerely hope things will change for the better soon for you and your household and marriage.

Kind Regards, Red5
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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2019, 07:09:30 AM »

DC Dad, I am sorry that you are in a situation that brings you here, but glad you are here to discuss ways to deal with this kind of thing.

To answer your question- no I don't think we get used to this, these situations are difficult. What I have seen though is patterns, not because I am any kind of expert but because someone pointed them out to me.

I don't think Asking Why deserves any of this. Nor do you, or I or anyone else here. I certainly didn't deserve to be raged at by a BPD mother when I was just a kid either, but it happened in my family and I have dealt with these patterns.

I know it felt better when people consoled me. It wasn't my fault. Asking Why's H is behaving poorly when he trashes things. But if it is true that we can't change someone else's behavior then does it help in the long run to agree he's a behaving poorly and focus on that?

It was very uncomfortable to have a co-dependency sponsor turn the mirror on me and ask me what did I do/say to participate in dysfunctional drama. I didn't think it was fair. I wasn't the one behaving like this. These relationships are not all the same, but some of the patterns are. Dysfunction often takes both people. If I didn't want to add to the drama, I had to look at my part. It was more effective because this was the part I had some control over. It may not solve all the issues, but if it reduces the drama, there might be some improvement.

I realize it may appear harsh to ask an upset person what did they do- but it is from the heart. When we feel a lot of resentment, we tend to say inflammatory things. Sometimes we don't even mean them, but the pwBPD "hears" them that way. This doesn't mean we walk on eggshells, but that we are aware of when we are being reactive, out of our own hurt feelings. I hope that this approach is helpful to others because it is helpful to me when others point out my part.
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AskingWhy
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 02:15:08 AM »

Thank you, all who replied.  I am tolerating my H's rages/dysregulations less and less, and learning more about my own boundaries.

I do not deserved to be anyone's doormat or punching bag, especially after years of watching his teen and now adult children emotionally blackmail and abuse him.  

I no longer worry about "triggers."  Isn't avoiding triggers "walking on eggshells," and that is one of ways pwBPD manipulate us?  So, for me, no worry about triggers.  If my uBPD H decides to have a tantrum about what I say, then that's his problem.  I am getting better and better about H's tantrums not affecting me.  Recently, when H dysregulated and threatened divorce, I replied, "Fine, whatever, but you are sleeping on the couch."  I was mildly angry when I said this, taking his pillow and blankets into the living room and dumping them there.  Then I left to sleep in our bed alone in the bedroom.  I played on his fear of abandonment and rejection.  In the morning, he was quiet and said nothing.
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AskingWhy
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 02:16:23 AM »

My wife started outpatient rehab to get off a two bottle of wine day habit few days ago.  So I'm hopeful - though it is certainly getting worse before it gets better. 
I don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry.   

DC Dad, thank you for the compassion.  Those of us who have BPD spouses know it is indeed never easy. 
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 04:51:17 AM »

No, it isn't easy. It's tough.

I think the response to his threats was a good one. You aren't a doormat and it's good you don't let him treat you that way. If someone threatens divorce, I don't think I'd want them sleeping in my bedroom either. Letting them be alone for a bit to cool off when they are dysregulating is a good idea.

I think it's a good thing that you don't fear divorce threats.

I think improving a situation takes a bit of both. Tough love and not enabling behaviors, like you did when you had him sleep on the couch,  and also self examination for one's part in the patterns. That's for the purpose of being accountable for one's part in the dysfunction. It's not the same as walking on eggshells- I agree that's not helpful. But I can understand that you are at a place where you don't want to consider that. Your not enabling or tolerating the dysregulations and not letting them upset you as much may reduce their impact on you and hopefully that will help.

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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 08:20:09 AM »

AskingWhy,

Holidays sure tend to be potentially the most difficult times with an bpd partner in my experience.  Mine isn't a drinker, thank goodness.  The occasional beer maybe 3 times a year.  He is a very heavy weed user though and over holidays will treat himself to other things too.  It does make everything worse.

As for how you phrased the whole thing about his daughter not being there.  I personally think that he would have found an excuse to blow up at you about it even if you didn't bring it up.  He was clearly upset about it and someone had to pay for her choice and it was going to be you.  This has happened to me so many times over the years regardless of whether or not I said anything about the given situation.  It's damned if you do and damned if you don't.  Overall I have come to realize though that ignoring the existence of the people he triangulates me with, tends to work best.  Mind you, I can't always keep it in!  Sometimes he just pushes me way too far.  I do believe though that once they see that you don't react the way they want you to, once they can't take their anger towards someone else out on you and so forth, they tend to ease up a bit.  During the blow up mine had last week he said that he probably will never be able to hang out with female friends because of me.  Utter rubbish.  He specifically mentioned three names: that of his crush (of the past decade!), his ex with whom he split in 2010 and keeps contacting, and the woman that we were friends with until recently and whom he can't even stand either.  Well, I have a right not to want him to hang out with the first two women mentioned since his obsession with them has caused a lot of problems in his life and between us.  As for the third woman, like I said he hates her.  So why complain about them specifically and include a woman he hates in the mix?  To upset me.  He knows it will trigger me!  That is why I told him that he is totally free to hang out with any one of them and any other women he wants to.  His response to this was to ask me what kind of a woman would tell her man he can hang out with other women?  I mean ...

I think you did well sending him to the sofa.  No one should have to tolerate a drunk.  Least of all a verbally abusive one at that.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 10:03:34 AM »

I no longer worry about "triggers."  Isn't avoiding triggers "walking on eggshells," and that is one of ways pwBPD manipulate us?  So, for me, no worry about triggers.  If my uBPD H decides to have a tantrum about what I say, then that's his problem.  

I don't "worry" about triggers, but I am aware of what triggers my husband and I'm at choice as to whether or not to poke the bear. And nowadays I choose not to, not to protect him or coddle him, but just because it makes my life better when there's no conflict.

To me, it's much like being aware that a friend has an issue about her weight. I would never say to someone, "It looks like you're getting fatter" or "You're looking way too skinny." I might think these things, but out of politeness and respect, I would never say such things.

It's the same with my husband's triggers. I know certain things bother him. And I might think those things are inconsequential or silly. But what good comes from saying something which will upset him? Even if he doesn't retaliate verbally, he is likely to be in a sullen funk for the rest of the day, and that certainly wouldn't make my life more pleasant.

I'm all about how does it affect me? And my life is much happier when I don't have to be around a grump.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 11:48:56 AM »

I agree Cat and learned a lot when dealing with resentment. It's probably inevitable to feel resentment when dealing with someone with a PD. Lashing out to them is almost useless as they project it back. Trying to have a "talk" is also sometimes ineffective. So instead ,we let it out with little "digs" sometimes, which I tend to do as well.

However, if we choose to stay and live with someone, it's not really a happy situation. Maybe happiness isn't completely possible in some situations, but if less drama, more peace and quiet is possible, then we can choose to work towards that.

We all  brought out own emotional wounds to these relationships. We can't really fix anyone else's but our own. We don't need to purposely aim at them though if we don't want to. We can if we want, but often it just creates more drama.

I agree with Perdita in that sometimes a dysregulation is coming and the person is looking for a reason. A dysregulation is there way of getting rid of uncomfortable feelings and they benefit from it in this way. I think they actually feel more settled after one. So they may pick a fight no matter what. There are things we can do to avoid being the punching bag. If someone were to be drinking, I might consider just leaving and doing something else. If they dysregulate, leave the room. Sending them to the couch is one way to do this too. It's kind of a time out for both.
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AskingWhy
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2019, 03:19:40 AM »

Perdita, Cat and notwendy, thank you all for your kind replies.

Perdita, I agree that I was the punching bag for my H's disappointment over his uBPD D not coming to his party.  She is a young woman and she'd much rather socialise with her friends her own age, drink alcohol and get high.  My H knows he no longer can reduce me to tears with a tirade and a divorce threat like he once did.  Once I understood he was just an angry coward, discarded by his uNPD X W and blackmailed by his adult children, I no longer felt bad about myself.  I laugh when he threatens to divorce me now.  He knows he can't raise a hand to me (I have family in law enforcement) as he knows I would send him to prison so fast it would make his head spin, and he also wants to appear like a "perfect husband" to me for neighbors and his adult children.  I was disgusted with H that night with him being drunk.

Cat, I like your mentioning not "poking the bear."  At that point in time, I was really fed up with H and his being drunk, so I sent him to the couch.  I think H was rather surprised, but he went willingly, albeit starting with calling me names.  It did not phase me, and I voiced my disgust.  I also like to "keep the peace" and usually let H's rants and dysregulations roll off my back. I just don't respond.  I take the fuel away from his rants, and he is powerless to hurt me.  A case in point is the divorce threats.  I don't cry and sob like I did years ago, and now I just tell him to have me served.  In more than 15 years of threats, he never served me; if he does, I am ready and know my rights.

notwendy, I no longer try to "talk" when my H is dysregulating.  He tries to get a rise out of me, threatening divorce, etc. and it does not work.  H was indeed projecting his hurt and upset over his D onto me, and I saw it for what it was.  What a pathetic man to be flattened by a D not yet 30.  H was always trying to appease his children from childhood and into their adult years.  I feel so humiliated for him, the way he baby talks to them and he opens his wallet.  And, yes, I do resent my H for many things.  For more than 20 years, my married life to him was like an afterthought.  I regret that I married him, but like in most BPD courtships, it was quick courtship where he mirrored what I wanted to see, quickly married me before I knew what was happening, and then became a monster within a year of marriage.  For years, I was so dazed (and depressed) that I did not know what was happening.  Now I retrieved my self esteem and know the dynamics of a marriage to a BPD.  I also know I am not the horrible, worthless person my H said I was.   In fact, I know H's horrible FOO made him the insecure man he is.  That is no reason to mistreat a wife, the person who wants to love you.   

I feel so much better about myself and my ability to draw good boundaries.  If H want to go sulk, or make a divorce threat, he is welcomed to it.



  
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2019, 06:30:33 AM »

I feel so much better about myself and my ability to draw good boundaries.  If H want to go sulk, or make a divorce threat, he is welcomed to it.

That's a good thing. Seeing these behaviors for what they are- rather than take them personally is a great step. Once his threats and what he says don't bother you as much, it's easier to not react to them.

When he's drinking, I agree, let him be. You might just want to do something else and not be around him.

Once you get out of any triangle with his kids, then it's between them and him. I agree- let him deal with it.
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