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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Trying not to get sucked in by the dark cloud  (Read 470 times)
WitzEndWife
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« on: July 08, 2019, 01:07:53 PM »

My uBPDh has been in a FOUL mood recently - like, really foul. He's irritable about every little thing. I walk into a room and he always has something to complain about, no matter how small. I am not sure where this is coming from. He has been working a lot for the whole weekend, so I've barely seen him. When he has been home, he has either been sleeping or watching tv.

For my part, I've been working on detaching and doing what I need to do. Instead of waiting around for him to wake up so I could go run errands on Saturday, I decided to go ahead and go, knowing he'd be upset. He was on the sofa, sleeping, and he woke up as I was heading out the door. "Where are you going?" he said, sitting up. "I'm going to run some errands," I said. "Are you going to the grocery store?" "Yep." "Without me?" "Yep." He was pouty, but then said, "Well, okay then...can you buy coffee?" "Yep, I'll buy coffee," I said, and I walked out. 

The whole weekend, I did things on my own, without him, and I felt very calm and restored. Last night, he decided to get angry with me for not wanting to go get fast food with him. For some reason he enjoys going into the fast food place and sitting down - something that kind of grosses me out if I'm being honest. I don't even really like fast food. Last night, I had a huge headache and didn't feel like going anywhere. He got upset about that and threw out that we hadn't spent any time together the whole weekend. Then, he left to go for a walk and then washed the cars.

I'm thinking it's less about spending time with ME, and more about keeping me under his control. Am I correct in thinking this? Maybe the constant nitpicking and nattering has to do with that as well, like if he "gets to me," I'll do what he wants.

As a codependent who is terrified of rejection, I have a huge Achilles heel when it comes to criticism. Hit me with the right words, or for a certain length of time with criticism (he loves going on critical tirades), and I lose it and start self destructing. I'm either super defensive or I start beating up on myself for being a horrible person. It's bad. I could feel myself becoming defensive yesterday and I'm really trying to keep centered, because I know on some level it's fueling him to criticize me.

I also don't want him to guilt me into breaking my boundaries, which I'm known to do after a time. He is very good at wearing me down, or at picking the perfect "low" moment to manipulate me. I'm frustrated because I want to make progress here and not be sucked back into old habits.

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"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2019, 09:56:06 PM »

Good that you were able to do things on your own and enjoy the peacefulness of being out of range for his nitpicking. 

He might be grousing more because he senses you are becoming more independent and enjoying it.

If you don’t like fast food and the fast food place grosses you out, then why not go somewhere with him that you both enjoy? He can do the fast food place on his own.

It sounds like you’re making progress allowing yourself to be and do what you like.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 12:58:10 AM »

WEW, I also am codependent with my uBPD H and I am trying to break the habit. 

It recently dawned on me that my H was like a young teenage boy or a toddler.  It really got to annoying me, as I want to have a man in my marriage and not an emotional child.

It took over twenty years of marriage for me to figure this out.  I had very low self esteem when I married him (I regret that day!)  I am now stronger in myself.  Now I can ignore my H and his pouty moods.   When I am totally fed up, I respond to put him in his place.  When H threatens divorce, I dare him to serve me.  If he does, at last, serve me for divorce, I am ready legally and emotionally.  It's a good place to be in--no longer being affected by emotional abuse and emotional blackmail.

WEW, you have it in your power to overcome negative thoughts about yourself that come from your H.   
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WitzEndWife
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 09:29:22 AM »

I think my whole thing with being conflicted, up until this point, has been that, when he gets bad, I'm ready to leave, but when he is "good," it's tolerable. My uBPDh waffles wildly from moment to moment. He can say something scathingly venomous one second, and then act like everything is perfectly fine the next. And, of course, if I have any emotion toward anything he's done, I'm instantly the bad one, who "doesn't love him" and who is "mean" and "hateful" towards him. He'll even go so far as to hint at suicidal ideation.

I was so sucked into this back and forth, basing my life off of his whims and emotional cycles. I need to stop doing that and look at the big picture. What am I getting out of this? What do I actually need?

I need to keep working on readying myself emotionally for full detachment. Right now, I feel like a hangnail, or a dead toenail that hasn't fallen off yet. I am not in love with him, although I care deeply for him and his wellbeing. I want to be free, even though some of that is scary. I'm worried about how I'm going to manage my house, my cars, and my busy work life without him, but I also realize that I'll have a lot more energy when he's gone, and that, maybe what seems unmanageable now only seems unmanageable because I'm so drained all of the time.

I'm very, very sad and guilty feeling about what I'm thinking about doing (kicking him out), but I'm not seeing another option to being able to be happy.
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"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 09:47:02 AM »

WEW, it goes from bad to tolerable and that's about the extent of the range? As you say, basing one's life upon the whims and emotional cycles of another, is truly exhausting. And it's been a habit for you for some time. Changing that habit, like changing any other habit, you'll find successes, like you had the other day when you went about doing your errands by yourself. And you will find that sometimes you slip back into the habit without being aware that you have.

The next time you suddenly notice that you're paying more attention to his ups and downs instead of your own feelings, I'd like you to try the following experiment:

Imagine you're in a movie theatre watching the current moment as it plays out--both you and your husband are actors. Once you can do this, then imagine you're in the balcony of that movie theatre, watching yourself downstairs watching the actors on the screen.

When you can easily do this, you will be giving yourself time to detach emotionally from whatever is happening in the present moment. And when you're no longer using the reactive side of your brain, you can utilize the logical side and that will give you more options.

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 11:23:05 AM »

Hey WEW, Your task, I suggest, is to decline to internalize his criticism; instead, let it roll off your back.  I have a saying that I may have already related: "Poison is harmless if you don't ingest it"!  Don't allow yourself to take in the venom.

LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
WitzEndWife
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 12:08:53 PM »

Thanks Cat, my T has told me to use that tactic also. I need to keep practicing it. I've been really a lot better at not worrying about his moods. I have spent so much of my time with him worrying about how he's feeling and often doing things to make sure he's not too stressed or upset. At the same time, I don't think I've ever done anything to really help him, just enable him. Like, when he totally disassociated in the grocery store, I didn't immediately take him to the hospital because I was afraid he'd get angry with me. Now I realize my "helping" has been selfish. So, how to take that selfishness and put it to good use?
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"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
WitzEndWife
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 12:09:46 PM »

Hey WEW, Your task, I suggest, is to decline to internalize his criticism; instead, let it roll off your back.  I have a saying that I may have already related: "Poison is harmless if you don't ingest it"!  Don't allow yourself to take in the venom.

LJ

He has so much venom. I really try to resist it and ignore it, but sometimes he says that ONE thing that gets through. Ugh.
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"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 12:27:45 PM »

Hey WEW, maybe think of it as self-protective instead of selfish.

And now you have more and better strategies to protect yourself.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 03:43:29 PM »

Excerpt
He has so much venom. I really try to resist it and ignore it, but sometimes he says that ONE thing that gets through. Ugh.

Right, WEW, those w/BPD will continue to escalate and up the ante until they get a reaction from you, even if it's a negative reaction.  I used to practice disengagement with my pwBPD by refusing to engage or declining to participate in the drama.  It takes a while to get the hang of this technique, yet I found it quite helpful as an alternative to meeting fire with fire.

LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
WitzEndWife
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 11:29:57 AM »

So, last night, we're in bed and he turns to me and says, "I'm not happy in this marriage." I say, "Okay. Why?" He says that I "never show any interest in him anymore," that I "seem to treat him as an adversary," and I "won't stop taking the pill because I'm not interested in procreating with him." I said, "Well...I'm sorry you're feeling unhappy. I don't see things quite the same way as you do." Then, I decided to just kind of be honest because I couldn't think of any other way to sugarcoat things. "I am upset at the way you treat me - the fact that you call me names and behave disrespectfully toward me. It's hard to just forget that. Also, when it comes to having kids, our marriage is very unstable and I'd prefer to bring a child into a stable environment - not one where Dad threatens divorce every other day." Instead of being combative, he just said, "Well, I guess we'll just be childless degenerates then." I said, "You think being childless is being degenerate?" He said, "Yeah, it's selfish. What are we even here for if we're not procreating? What's the point? What's my reason for living?" Ah, so this was a depression thing, related to his constant search for purpose. He's now fixating on procreating as a means of finding that purpose. I said there were lots of reasons for living. At that moment, the big hound came around to the side of the bed. "What would these hounds do without you?" I said. He got all sentimental and said, "Aww," and petted the dog. "Whatever, forget I said anything," he said.
I woke up in the morning and found him on the sofa downstairs. I'm sure this was some sort of cry for attention or self punishing/pushing away move. I didn't play into it and chose to "observe" instead. He got up and later tried to start a fight with me about politics by sending me a bunch of articles via text with snarky comments.
Sigh. His thirst for attention of any kind is exhausting. It is very hard to ignore.
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"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
PeteWitsend
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2019, 01:32:32 PM »

... 
I'm thinking it's less about spending time with ME, and more about keeping me under his control. Am I correct in thinking this? Maybe the constant nitpicking and nattering has to do with that as well, like if he "gets to me," I'll do what he wants.
 ...
In my experience, when you do things independently, especially - but not only - when you don't clear it with them first, it triggers their irrational fears of abandonment, and they lose control of their emotions and lash out.

I noticed at times when I'd be doing something by myself, happy as a clam, my XW would suddenly be screaming at me over something unusual.

For example, building a retaining wall for the garden outside all afternoon... suddenly around 5 pm, I'm being accused of "avoiding" her all day - EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW WHERE I WAS THE WHOLE TIME! - then she storms back inside, slamming the door

Or sometimes she wouldn't be so direct about it... similar situation different day: but she comes outside to insist we get a brick patio installed, then accuses me of being "cheap" when I say we need to get estimates and check referrals of contractors, and plan that out for later.  THEN?  before I get another word in, she's storming back inside, slamming the door

I assume in each case, her motivation was the same: seeing me happy doing something without her triggered her fears of abandonment.  SO she dysregulates and reacts.

Problem is entirely within her, stemming from her feelings, but now it's on me...

On the flip side of the coin, if she was preoccupied with someone else, typically when she was talking to her nightmare of a friend on the phone, she would neglect everyone else in the house.

be there when they want/need you (which might be close to 100% of your free time), but don't expect anything when they don't. 
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WitzEndWife
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2019, 04:24:17 PM »

PeteWitsend I think you're right about them sensing you're having a pleasant time without them and feeling abandoned. They really do their damnedest to get you to stay focused on them 100 percent of the time, except when they want to be alone or doing something else.

I like to have podcasts on when I'm doing stuff around the house, and my H haaaaaaaates it. I put them on when I'm cooking or cleaning mostly. He pouts or makes fun of what I'm listening to. Meanwhile, whenever I'm doing anything with him, he has his face buried in his phone. I've told him it bothers me when we go out to dinner and I have to stare at him staring at his phone. He has to be reminded every time not to use it. Or, at home, he's watching TV or on his computer on Facebook. But, heaven forbid I try to do things on my own that I enjoy.

I mean, I do things anyway and I'm learning to ignore the guilting and pouty faces he makes. It is constant though, and that's frustrating and exhausting.
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"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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