Onto the next round... her "response" to divorce application. Why do I fear?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'll take the liberty to use this forum to vent a bit..   

I was hoping that things would move forward once I had filed for divorce and that her lawyer would "restrain" her a bit.  I filed for sole custody / primary residence based on the advice from lawyers, the kids therapist, the children's aid society and my opinion of what is best for my kids.  It turned out quite explosive (breach of no-contact conditions, she put the kids in the middle of it, .. )   

She has finally filed her response and wow. She surpassed my expectations:
- She claims that I am unfit because she alleges that I was emotionally, psychologically and sexually abusing her
- She is filing for sole custody with 1 week-end every two weeks for myself (I've been single dad for the last 7 months!)
- There is no end in sight for household assets separation. She has decided that whatever she doesn't want it is worth a lot of value and she assigns it to me. And whatever I want is worth a lot. 
- She is claiming everything:  spousal, child support, occupation rent, additional health insurance, all of this until I die.

I am not sure that I see the light at the end of the tunnel.  I'll simply be pissing money away at lawyers to move through the system.   I was really hoping that her lawyer would at least make her file something realistic and we could somehow get closer to the goal.  It ain't happening.  I'm happy to have skipped mediation, it would not have lead anywhere. 

So yes, it is pretty much textbook: Smear campaign, she feels like she is the better parent and she feels entitled. 

It doesn't seem to be entirely BPD, I think that there is some narcissism in there...  amongst others. 

Oh well, in the meantime, the kids are fairly happy and safe.  But I always dread what's coming up. Somehow I fear I'll end up like an horror story where the judge will believe her sad stories and agree with her opinion that she is doing therapy and is on the road to success.   

It's as if I was feeling powerless when she is on a good streak and feels strong.  I guess I still fear her after all the stuff I've been through in the last 8 months.  Everyone keeps saying that she'll make other mistakes, and she's done that so far.  Yet I fear the outcome of this whole process.. 

[mart555]

I'll take the liberty to use this forum to vent a bit..   

I was hoping that things would move forward once I had filed for divorce and that her lawyer would "restrain" her a bit.  I filed for sole custody / primary residence based on the advice from lawyers, the kids therapist, the children's aid society and my opinion of what is best for my kids.  It turned out quite explosive (breach of no-contact conditions, she put the kids in the middle of it, .. )   

She has finally filed her response and wow. She surpassed my expectations:
- She claims that I am unfit because she alleges that I was emotionally, psychologically and sexually abusing her
- She is filing for sole custody with 1 week-end every two weeks for myself (I've been single dad for the last 7 months!)
- There is no end in sight for household assets separation. She has decided that whatever she doesn't want it is worth a lot of value and she assigns it to me. And whatever I want is worth a lot. 
- She is claiming everything:  spousal, child support, occupation rent, additional health insurance, all of this until I die.

I am not sure that I see the light at the end of the tunnel.  I'll simply be pissing money away at lawyers to move through the system.   I was really hoping that her lawyer would at least make her file something realistic and we could somehow get closer to the goal.  It ain't happening.  I'm happy to have skipped mediation, it would not have lead anywhere. 

So yes, it is pretty much textbook: Smear campaign, she feels like she is the better parent and she feels entitled. 

It doesn't seem to be entirely BPD, I think that there is some narcissism in there...  amongst others. 

Oh well, in the meantime, the kids are fairly happy and safe.  But I always dread what's coming up. Somehow I fear I'll end up like an horror story where the judge will believe her sad stories and agree with her opinion that she is doing therapy and is on the road to success.   

It's as if I was feeling powerless when she is on a good streak and feels strong.  I guess I still fear her after all the stuff I've been through in the last 8 months.  Everyone keeps saying that she'll make other mistakes, and she's done that so far.  Yet I fear the outcome of this whole process.. 

[StillHopeful73]

Wow, mart555, I'm sorry to hear about her response. I look back to my family court experience 6 years ago and I had many of the same fears as you. I actually started off with a not-so-good lawyer and threw away a few thousand to get absolutely nowhere. Despite the fact that my ex had assaulted me with our daughter in the backseat and was charged (and given a criminal record), she didn't think I had a chance for sole custody. I later nabbed a strong lawyer who has kept us quite protected with the order in place. So hopefully you have a really good lawyer who you trust.

My ex responded similarly with all kinds of lies and finger pointing. He would say anything to make me look bad and it sounds like yours is doing the same, and then some. He would claim I was having an affair, that I took all of his money and was always shopping. All lies. He would say I lied about my financial records/statements even though I provided every single bank statement and receipt my lawyer requested and he provided nothing except for proof of income. Nobody had to force him to do anything. It was very frustrating. But I'm sure the courts see this often.

My best advice to you is to figure out where her weak spots are. For me, sole custody was my primary goal. Although I didn't want to come out broke, I was willing to lose some financially in order to get sole custody. So I ended up wiping his backpay of child support and paying him some in order to negotiate firstly, the sole custody and then for us to stay in our home.

Hopefully you have kept all of your documentation on her behavior whether it be texts, voicemails, emails, documented statements from the kids. Has the school had issues with her and would they be willing to write a statement? Any witness statements on her behavior would be essential. Include Put it all together for your lawyer.

She has likely given her lawyer a sob story and if she is anything like my ex, is quite believable. But she can't hide her true self forever and once it starts to come out hopefully it will work out in your favor. She has nothing to back up her claims so hopefully that will be thrown out quickly also.

But in all honesty I remember that process being hell. I was so scared it was never going to end or he was going to stretch it out. Or that nobody would believe me. Once it was over I could finally breathe again.  So eventually it will all end and you will be able to move forward, but you might just have a bit of a bumpy road in the interim.

[mart555]

Thanks.  Yes, it's been a bumpy road so I'm used to that. 

I have tons of material to address all her points and her bad behavior.  And yes, kids are my main focus.  And I know that I'll lose some (even lots).  I'd move to a smaller house right away (or maybe next year once my youngest is done with elementary) but cannot get a mortgage until I have a separation agreement signed so we're stuck and she's now claiming occupation rent for the fancy house she rented.   

I don't know what her weak spots are. She wants EVERYTHING.  Kids (minimum 50-50), spousal support for indefinite duration, additional health insurance, some crazy amount of $$ for the household items she doesn't want to keep, ..   Many times she said "just give me the money and I'll disappear" and then the next day "I want the kids 50-50, no less".  It's maddening.   There is no way to reason with her. 

She behaves well in public (school, sports, ..) so this whole story is unbelievable for most.  The cops however did say "Wow, she's the real deal" after reading the multiple police reports and criminal record..   and kids therapist said "I wouldn't send my kids with her", same for my lawyer.   Children's lawyers will be involved and make sure their voice is heard but once mom learns that, she'll lash on the kids once again like she did a few times ("you don't want me! contact me when you want you won't hear from me until then. You are mean to me" and the next day she texts them "when are you coming to visit?")

And yes, her lawyer seems to be buying on her sob stories but I know that she lashed at him at least once, she forwarded me the email..   and she split on her previous lawyer.

It does make for interesting stories.   

[Skip]

The cops however did say "Wow, she's the real deal" after reading the multiple police reports and criminal record..   and kids therapist said "I wouldn't send my kids with her", same for my lawyer.   Children's lawyers will be involved and make sure their voice is heard but once mom learns that, she'll lash on the kids

And yes, her lawyer seems to be buying on her sob stories

Divorce is ugly. Lawyers feed into that - the bigger the fight, the more the money for them.

Divorce is also formula. The judges take all the claims with a grain of salt, look at a few deciding factors, and make a decision. The lawyers know this better than anyone.

If you have had the kids for 7 months, you will most likely get primary residence or 50%/50%. The same can be said about everything else - there is a practical range.

It will help you peace of mind to find someone that knows your jurisdiction and how cases are generally decided,

[mart555]

If you have had the kids for 7 months, you will most likely get primary residence or 50%/50%. The same can be said about everything else - there is a practical range.

I know that I won't get less than 50-50, but I find it ridiculous that she's even asking for primary residence with 1/2 the week-ends for me because of abuse allegations.   And writing that due to a few weeks in DBT she is on the road to full recovery.   Then again, this is BPD we're talking about so of course nothing make sense. 

I have confidence in my lawyer, but she clearly said that she doesn't know all the judges and some are often not predictable.. 

A few months ago I've removed my pink glasses and realized that the 50-50 in two happy households won't happen and I won't be able to save everyone: the focus is on the kids. This battle will trigger another downward spiral for her and it won't be pretty but I have to think about the kids.   I don't want them to spend 50% of their time walking on eggshells.  I want them to feel safe and calm at home.  I want them to develop normally.  They have enough stress at school and with the short time they spend with their mom.  Why can't she realize that short visits a few times a week means that the visits end on a high note?  This illness really sucks. 

[worriedStepmom]

You seem to be seeing things really clearly and are focused on what is best for your kids.  That's wonderful

Our downward spiral has come in spurts.  Since H got primary custody last year, his xW got worse, ended up checking herself into intensive inpatient therapy, then got marginally better, and is now spiraling rapidly down.  H is concerned that she's working herself into no visitation at all, because she responds so poorly to any limits.  We discussed it last night similarly to how you put it - who are we protecting?  SD12 from her mother's awful behavior, or xW from her own bad decisions?

[Skip]

Generally speaking,

its rare the the father gets more than 50%; the more the parents seem to fight, the more likely the judge will do a 60%:40% or 70%:30% and the short stick goes to dad.   a common way to even the playing field is to claim abuse (the courts get it, but still) and parental alienation (there are few tools to fight this).

I think this is the real challenge you face. Her mental illness is often not a considered factor. Her unreasonableness and fighting often play in her favor (as judges, if they feel the need to establish stability for the kids tend to favor mom).

So bottom line, if you take the bait and react to her antics, odds are that you lose.  If you fight tooth and nail about how unfit she is as a mother,  odds are that you lose.

It sucks, but that the reality of it in many cases.

Best reality is to stay off the drama triangle, appear incredibly flexible and supportive of co-parenting, and hope for the best.

Does any of this sound like the advice you are getting?

[zachira]

I may be naive and I do think you stand a chance of getting better than 50 percent custody especially if she acts out in court and you have so much evidence that she is a danger to the children. How old are your children?

[Skip]

I may be naive and I do think you stand a chance of getting better than 50 percent custody especially if she acts out in court and you have so much evidence that she is a danger to the children. How old are your children?

There is a chance... of course... but talk to someone dealing with the custody evaluations and ask them what they see.  Short of a long history of CPS complaints, mothers most often get 50% - 70% of the kids - even with drug addictions and felony convictions.

If you look through the case histories here, there have been many many attempts to prove the wife unsafe... to bring "BPD" up as a disqualifier... or to say the new boyfriend is dangerous... and I don't know of a case where it worked. We have had mom's run off with the kids, block access for the entire divorce process, and violate the court ordered custody after the divorce, and still retain 50% or more. They get scolded, yes. But custody stays the same.

More often the courts supports a ruling that the parents conflict in not in the best interest of the child and it would be better for the child to have stability of just one of them (and its most often mom, because dad is in a better position to make money to support everyone).

The fathers here that got over 50% custody (generally speaking), mostly got it because mom walked away (or ran off with a new man), or was in jail.

A lot of men have sabotaged their settlement and custody by trying to convince the court that mom was unfit, not realizing that court order children to live with far more troubled moms than those with BPD.

I don't like saying this. I don't agree with it. But I do want to open men's eye's to it. Family court operates by formula.

[flourdust]

As a counterpoint, I'm a father with 60% custody as a result of a parenting evaluation.

The main factors that influenced this were my wife's pattern of BPD behaviors (not the diagnosis; the documentation of violence, threats, suicidal ideation, etc.) and her ceding custody to me early in our separation.

[mart555]

Best reality is to stay off the drama triangle, appear incredibly flexible and supportive of co-parenting, and hope for the best.

Does any of this sound like the advice you are getting?

I'd be happy with something leading to 70/30 slowly over the next few months.  Up here if 50/50 or 60/40, it's considered joint custody. And I don't want that.  I want to be considered primary residency and sole custody (ie: >60%) so that when she spiral down for a few days I can put my foot down and say "the kids aren't going, you're not well".  You're doing good this week? Sure, maybe have them an extra night but don't expect to set a new status quo.  

I don't want the kids to cut contact with her but I want to be able to offer them a safe place and have control over that.  

So yes, I'm trying to be flexible (well, I think) but it will definitely end up parallel parenting instead of co-parenting.  

[mart555]

I may be naive and I do think you stand a chance of getting better than 50 percent custody especially if she acts out in court and you have so much evidence that she is a danger to the children. How old are your children?

The kids will be 15 and 11 in a few weeks.

[Skip]

the documentation of violence, threats, suicidal ideation, etc. and her ceding custody to me early in our separation

I think this is consistent with what I'm saying.

What were that tangible issues that were pivotal?

Questions... Ceding custody (walking away) is a big one. How much and for how long did she cede custody? What was the reason she walked away? She demonstrated a lack of commitment.

The living situation is often a major factor in these cases. How did your home (suitability), and location (same schools, close to friends, schools, activities) compare to what she had at the time?

Typically, if violence, and/or suicidal ideation is a concern, there is supervised visitation. Was there? Or were these contributing factors?

Not questioning you, just trying to parse this out for everyone reading.

[mart555]

What were that tangible issues that were pivotal?

The suicide threats in front of the kids, the assault at my workplace, and the fact that she involved them in the divorce (kept telling them lawyer stuff, asked them to ask me stuff) since there was a no contact order.  She would also tell them inapropriate things (ie: your father sexually assaulted me, he never did anything for you, ..)

Questions... Ceding custody (walking away) is a big one. How much and for how long did she cede custody? What was the reason she walked away? She demonstrated a lack of commitment.

She realised that the house was a trigger and that she couldn't control herself and pleaded me to not obtain an urgent motion for the matrimonial home.  She did it voluntarily, and per the voluntary agreement with the children's air society who also recognized that the matrimonial home was a trigger for her.

The living situation is often a major factor in these cases. How did your home (suitability), and location (same schools, close to friends, schools, activities) compare to what she had at the time?

We were living together and then she was the one to move out.  She's now in another house 10 minutes from here.  Friends aren't the same, they don't have any friends there since they only go for short 4 hours visits.

Typically, if violence, and/or suicidal ideation is a concern, there is supervised visitation?

Visitation were supervised for ~2 months but then they allowed unsupervised visits. They have closed the file 2 months ago because "the father is protective", "the children see a therapist" and "the children are old enough to leave if there is danger" or something like that. 

[Skip]

You sound like you have a pretty good case having the kids for 6 months now.

[zachira]

It sounds like you have a really good case for getting nearly if not full custody. I am glad your children have their own lawyers and are likely old enough to speak up for themselves. The one piece of advice I would give you which you probably already know, is you can't match her in the eye for an eye battle as you are not capable of stooping as low as she is. What are your plans for court? It would help if she shows her true colors in court and you can keep your composure which will be hard with all the false accusations. I hope you will believe in yourself and your ability to get the best outcome,  going to court confident yet not arrogant, showing the caring father that you are, can make a big difference if you get the right kind of Family Court Judge, many more of whom are aware of how parents with personality disorders manipulate child custody and divorce proceeedings thanks to the work of people like Bill Eddy. I assume you are familiar with Bill Eddy, and may have said so in a previous thread.

[mart555]

The one piece of advice I would give you which you probably already know, is you can't match her in the eye for an eye battle as you are not capable of stooping as low as she is. What are your plans for court? It would help if she shows her true colors in court and you can keep your composure which will be hard with all the false accusations. ..

I don't think that I've ever screamed at her. I was always calm. Even during the death threats, assaults or her tantrums.  I don't know how I did it but it seems messed up.   A few weeks later as I was reading her messages or listening to recorded call, I was almost shivering and cramping up.  It's as if my "this is abuse" level had been recalibrated. I'll definitely stay calm but will be stressed out. 

And yes, she'll be stooping really low.  Wouldn't be the first time. 

[flourdust]

I'll try to address these for my case. I see some parallels with the OP's experience to date.

What were that tangible issues that were pivotal?

I had documented everything exhaustively -- from my journals, from text exchanges, from audio recordings I had made. It was hundreds of pages of material, but I didn't expect anyone to read that, so I created an executive summary with a spreadsheet that basically said, "In the past X months, here's how many times she has been violent, threatened suicide, etc." It showed a pattern of instability and of abusive behavior.

The parenting evaluator interviewed us individually and observed us with the child. He probed me to find out if I was trying to get custody to deny my ex child support money or to punish her. I tried to keep at the fore that this was about providing the best environment for our child. I also took a solution-oriented stance and suggested I'd be open to closer to 50/50 custody if over time my ex demonstrated improvement.

In his observations and interviews of my ex, he determined that things in her home started to become unstable after about three days of continuous custody -- that became a key part of his recommended parenting schedule.

Questions... Ceding custody (walking away) is a big one. How much and for how long did she cede custody? What was the reason she walked away? She demonstrated a lack of commitment.

That was definitely a big one. She initiated the separation by leaving town suddenly for about two weeks. I had the child. She came back with a separation proposal she had written up that essentially made her an every other weekend mom for about seven months until we had temporary orders. She picked up more parenting time with temporary orders, as her lawyer certainly realized that she had made a big mistake in ceding me 85% custody at the start! However, I think it's easier to keep majority custody if you start with majority custody.

The living situation is often a major factor in these cases. How did your home (suitability), and location (same schools, close to friends, schools, activities) compare to what she had at the time?

I kept the house; she moved into an apartment about a few miles away. They were essentially equivalent in regards to school & activities. There was a home visitation by the evaluator, but I don't think it made much difference. My ex got her act together enough to get the place cleaned up, and while it was pretty spartan, it had running water and a roof.

Typically, if violence, and/or suicidal ideation is a concern, there is supervised visitation. Was there? Or were these contributing factors?

No supervised visitation, but they contributed to the evaluator's recommendations for a cap on three consecutive overnights with my ex, plus parenting classes and counseling. (These were mostly bargained away in mediation later, though.)

[Panda39]

My Partner also ended up with Primary Custody of his 2 daughters.  He and his ex were married 17 years at the time of their separation and 19 by the time the divorce was final.  At the time of separation he was an every other weekend dad and Wednesday nights for dinner.  He had Parental Alienation going on, the kids going through his things/spying on him and giving info to mom, bad-mouthing by the ex to friends and he also faced false allegations of abuse.

For him it was keeping the eye on the ball, that being what was best for the kids.  He was able to document several areas of neglect on mom's part...lack of school attendance, lack of medical and dental care. (Email Communication was key) He even had video of his older daughter talking to mom about the younger daughter going through dad's things (spying/parental alienation) But what really helped him was his uBPDxw's own behaviors...she shot herself in the foot over and over again.

No job, didn't drive (suspended license), kept older daughter out of school for a year, attendance issues with younger daughter, failure or slow response to physical issues with the kids, unstable housing (evicted 3 times), suicide threats...

Over the 2 year period of their separation/divorce () The court gave mom several chances and she just kept coming up short.

In the end my Partner had the girls M-F (they went to mom's Friday evenings) and one weekend a month, Education decision making, Medical decision making, Dental decision making.  His uBPDxw got alimony for 5 years (7 total because she received it during the divorce process too), saw the girls 3 weekends a month, had Therapy decision-making (I think the court thought the therapist would catch on to her and be able to handle her), Vision decision - making, and gynecological decision-making.

So the court in trying to appear fair gave each parent 3 items of decision making each, mom got alimony/money and dad got majority custody. All even and fair...but was it?  Who got the important stuff?  Who was actually parenting.  The court saw who the issue was.

My partner practiced parallel parenting (co-parenting was a complete failure).

In 2015 because of their mother's behaviors towards them and her instability, both girls stopped seeing their mother on their own...they voted with their feet.  They were 14 and 18, today D22 is no contact with her mom and D18 is low contact (texts/phone calls).  This is hard on them both, there is guilt and sadness but they are doing what they must to protect themselves from their mother's actions.

It sounds like my partner is in the minority but he was awarded majority custody. But no matter what it is scary putting your life and kids lives in the hands of the court.  All you can do is your best...best parenting, best legal argument, best documentation etc.  And if it doesn't come out the way you want it the first time you always have the option to go back with more evidence.

Panda39

[mart555]

So the court in trying to appear fair gave each parent 3 items of decision making each, mom got alimony/money and dad got majority custody. All even and fair...but was it?  Who got the important stuff?  Who was actually parenting.  The court saw who the issue was
...

It sounds like my partner is in the minority but he was awarded majority custody. But no matter what it is scary putting your life and kids lives in the hands of the court.  All you can do is your best...best parenting, best legal argument, best documentation etc.  And if it doesn't come out the way you want it the first time you always have the option to go back with more evidence.

Based on the behavior that you describe, I don't really see that as winning anything or court being fair at all.  He has to do all the week-day routine but can only do fun stuff 1 week-end a month and then the other week-ends the kids are "stuck" there for 2 nights and can't escape for these 48 hours.  It sucks for everyone, except for the mother who had a terrible behavior yet still managed to get something.

[Panda39]

I actually see this another way, to me it as a win for the girls, yes dad had to do the heavy lifting but the girls got the parent that could parent and he had control over the important things in their lives so he could do that.  The girls got to spend time with mom (back then they wanted to see her) and mom could just enjoy her children with out the triggering stress of actual parenting. 

Panda39

[mart555]

Fair enough, my reasoning was that when older, they use the week-end to decompress a bit... which they wouldn't be able to do with a BPD..  or at least it would be difficult to do. We all know how we can't really relax when there is a BPD nearby!

[ForeverDad]

Some things are non-negotiable, that is, not to be Gifted Away in hopes to get a better deal somehow.  Sure, the Court can decide otherwise but you don't offer to weaken your own position.  For example, you want to keep as much authority as possible and limit the chaos the ex can create.  If full legal custody is nixed by court then at least fight for Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  (Courts may accept that option since they prefer joint custody which implies both parents are involved, but DM or TB basically grants you the parenting authority and control you need.)

[Panda39]

We all know how we can't really relax when there is a BPD nearby!

Since the girls have stopped seeing their mom, yes many things are easier for them, less chaos, and drama, things get done, they can chill without the enmeshed needy demands of their mother. 

However because they don't see their mom, there are other factors that come into play, sadness, anger, grief, and biggest of all guilt.

As dysfunctional as their mom is, and in spite of some really lousey stuff she has done she is still their mom and they love her (and hate her)...mental illness just plain sucks!

The girls have made the healthiest choices they can for themselves by creating boundaries, and accepting their mother has problems. Things are what they are for now, they may change they may not.  I see my role as supporting them.

Panda39

[mart555]

As dysfunctional as their mom is, and in spite of some really lousey stuff she has done she is still their mom and they love her (and hate her)...mental illness just plain sucks!

The girls have made the healthiest choices they can for themselves by creating boundaries, and accepting their mother has problems. Things are what they are for now, they may change they may not.  I see my role as supporting them.

Same here.  While the ex believes that I'm doing everything I can to prevent her from seeing the kids, the reality is that I am limiting it to ensure quality time and so far, it seems to work.  The kids therapist however thinks that the kids see their mom too much but I hesitate to reduce visitation time further since it will just rock the boat even more.   Why can't the ex realize that she is pushing the kids away herself now that I'm not the caretaker?    Can't she take a breather, focus on trying to get better (she's doing DBT) and enjoy the time she has with the kids and when she gets better and kids want, increase that time slowly over time up to a certain limit?

On the bright side, the kids are setting their foot down and seem to understand her game (manipulation / wants them to feel guilty) so it doesn't hurt them as much.  But they are scared of the monster that hides inside her... they've seen it too many times.   

[Panda39]

Same here.  While the ex believes that I'm doing everything I can to prevent her from seeing the kids, the reality is that I am limiting it to ensure quality time and so far, it seems to work.

Nice job, this is really good for the kids!

The kids therapist however thinks that the kids see their mom too much but I hesitate to reduce visitation time further since it will just rock the boat even more. 

Would the therapist be willing to make this recommendation to the court?

Why can't the ex realize that she is pushing the kids away herself now that I'm not the caretaker?    Can't she take a breather, focus on trying to get better (she's doing DBT) and enjoy the time she has with the kids and when she gets better and kids want, increase that time slowly over time up to a certain limit?

This would take flexible thinking, not the black & white thinking...if you aren't with me (kids) then you are against me.  Self-awareness that she has problems and those problems make it so she isn't able to parent her best (admit she isn't perfect), that she should work on herself (again admit she isn't perfect), and enjoy the time the kids are with you (that means you "win")

Basically getting her to understand and voluntarily participate in the above means being rational and not mentally ill.

On the bright side, the kids are setting their foot down and seem to understand her game (manipulation / wants them to feel guilty) so it doesn't hurt them as much.  But they are scared of the monster that hides inside her... they've seen it too many times.   

It sounds like they are able to recognize the FOG which is good, when you can do that you can take it less personally.  Are they working on boundaries at all?

Panda39

[mart555]

Would the therapist be willing to make this recommendation to the court?

This would take flexible thinking, not the black & white thinking...if you aren't with me (kids) then you are against me.  Self-awareness that she has problems and those problems make it so she isn't able to parent her best (admit she isn't perfect), that she should work on herself (again admit she isn't perfect), and enjoy the time the kids are with you (that means you "win")

Basically getting her to understand and voluntarily participate in the above means being rational and not mentally ill.

She works on herself (DBT sessions, which I believe have been mandatory due to her criminal court proceedings..) and has admitted having a problem but she doesn't grasp the damage of what she has done.  From what you wrote, I shouldn't expect much...  so she'll never realize that it's better for the kids. 

It sounds like they are able to recognize the FOG which is good, when you can do that you can take it less personally.  Are they working on boundaries at all?

Yes, they now don't feel pressured to reply to her messages right away.  Most of the time they don't even want to read them.  A month or two ago my oldest one felt obligated to reply to her immediately, and it always ended up in circular discussions talking about how he made her feel bad.  And he stands his ground when she asks for longer visits.   As for my youngest, he's happy that I took his phone away (my old phone... because I damaged my new one): he told the T "I'm happy he took his phone back that way I don't have to read her messages".  How messed up is that..

[I Am Redeemed]

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