Should I take this time to ask for separation?

[WitzEndWife]

Well, I was just yesterday informed that my pay was getting cut nearly 25%. I broke the news to uBPDh over text, because, of course, he was asking me if I wanted to go out to dinner. When I came home, he was in the bathroom with the door locked for hours, having a panic attack. I was in too much of a funk to deal with this, so I talked to my sister on the phone, grabbed a glass of wine, and just processed my feelings. Later, uBPDh came out and said he didn't feel good about himself in general, and that we were "f***ked." Then, he mentioned the possibility of him moving to NC and trying to find a job there, because there is nothing he wants to do in our state.

This presents a possible opportunity for me to propose an official separation. The problem is that, if I propose it and he is against it (which he will be), he might abandon it and stay glued to me like a tick. However, maybe the best option would be to have him go there and be completely self sufficient, and then propose the separation. That way, he'd already have his own place and be living a life there, and I think that would alleviate some of the guilt of "retraumatizing" him by actually physically kicking him out. It feels like a better option to me, if he would decide to go that route. Of course, I'd need to push him in that direction and he'd have to save his own money to make the move.

Are there any red flags with that plan?

[Enabler]

Is his suggestion just 'in the moment' and liable to change over the coming days as he realises you're not going to be in poverty?

[PeteWitsend]

Yeah, I think you need to be up front about your decision; he's unreliable, and is not going to follow through or remain consistent. 

I don't think there's going to be an easy way out of it, unless he just ditches you to go to NC. 

[Enabler]

My thoughts were more around whether or not this utopia was likely to come to fruition since at the moment he's in fight or flight drama land. I don't disagree that a natural 'temporary' separation could be an opportunity for you to formalise it, as well as see how you feel once separated. Things can change a lot when 2 people are separated for a period of time... you may even see life differently, miss those things you took for granted... or maybe not.

Enabler

[WitzEndWife]

I have no idea whether he is serious about doing that. He has mentioned it before. I have a feeling, if he went away, it could go one of two ways: first, he could realize that he prefers life there and find new freedom and independence and enjoy it, thereby welcoming a permanent separation; or, he could become even clingier. When he's been apart from me previously, he has called me every single evening to the point where I had to kick him off the phone.

I kind of thought it would be "striking while the iron's hot," but I'm totally aware it could backfire. 

[Cat Familiar]

What would your ideal scenario be? And how can you help make it happen?

You know he hasn’t been happy living where you currently reside. And you know it’s likely that he will find something wrong with any place he lives.

It seems like you’re hoping he will take the initiative to leave so you don’t have to end the relationship yourself.

[WitzEndWife]

Yep, Cat, you called me on it! I think I was thinking it would save me from having to do the thing I dread doing, which is kicking him out. I guess I still need to do more work on my codependency.

[formflier]

Sorry about the pay cut...what is the job market like there for you?

OK...lots of priorities here. "Pragmatism" is pretty high on your list.

Separate things to think about.

If he wants to go to NC and get ...doesn't that match up with lots of your other priorities?

I'm not suggesting you not face (eventually) "kicking him out" of the relationship.  But let's be pragmatic and deal with the decisions that are actually on the table "right now".

I suggest you take him up on his offer..let's figure out if this is BS or not.  Can you do that today?

Again..sorry about the news from work.  Self care!

Best,


FF

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks FF. He hasn't mentioned anything since his initial musing, so I'm wondering if he was just testing the water with it. Now he's in a depressive spiral. I really do not have the emotional capacity to deal with it whatsoever right now. I'm pretty emotionally spent. I'm still processing what this means for me and how to deal with it. Luckily, my parents said they will help me pay for my therapy, which is vital at this point.

I feel like I keep getting kicked when I'm down. Just when I'm doing better at setting boundaries and figuring out how to pay down debt, BOOM, the legs go out from under me. I mean, I knew this could be a possibility; heck, I could have even LOST my job, which would have been way worse. I'm just sad. Life feels unfair and it feels like I have no relief from stress right now. I'm still expected to work as hard as ever, I still have to find a way to make finances work, and I still have to work on myself and deal with my toxic and dysfunctional marriage. I want to just cry. Ugh. 

[Enabler]

There was always the risk that he could flip from angry reactive (must run, must do something) to passive (everything is against me) in his trip around crazy 8’s. Given your experience what action do you think he’ll end up taking when he gets back to baseline. Do you need the money (desperately) to survive? It’s not like he’s felt the need to seek work in your local area albeit temporary work.

Among other things you sound a bit ‘victimy’ about work. As though someone has robbed you of choices. I felt the same a few years back and it really really helped to reframe work. I have a 1.5hr each way commute and that sucks a lot. It’s a pretty long day usually 10-12 hours at work as well. I felt like I lived in a bubble and my family at home were just parasites feeding off my labour with little or no reward. I was being robbed of choice whilst I facilitated plentiful choice for them and there was almost no gratitude other than a few cursory “thanks” when I was thoroughly p!ssed off and asked for some gratitude. I really was going to an empty well to get water. The thing is, I did have a choice, I always had a choice. I could sack off a job that I enjoyed, go and push supermarket trolleys and forego all my potential. Everyone would suffer, including myself (them probably more) but I would gain a “better quality of life”!  Instead, I chose to own it. I chose to accept that I was doing a good thing, I was sacrificing myself for the betterment for all of us...  and like all great gifts, you don’t give to receive, you don’t keep a slate.

I have a quote from a film called ‘Beautiful things’ I like:

“Reverend Stephens: I don't want to preach today, instead I just wanna talk to you, about a word we don't hear much anymore. Sacrifice. It's not what I would call a modern word. People hear the word sacrifice, and they become afraid that something will be taken away from them or that they will have to give up something they couldn't live without. Sacrifice, to them, means loss in a world telling us we could have it all. But I believe true sacrifice is a victory. That's because it requires free will to give up something for someone you love, or something or someone you love more than yourself. I won't lie to you. It's a gamble. Sacrifice wont take away pain and loss, but it wins the battle against bitterness, the bitterness that dims the light on all of the true value in our lives.“

Changing the frame around work is as much for you as it is for anyone around you.

Enabler

[WitzEndWife]

I am absolutely NOT victim-y AT ALL, about work, but I am absolutely allowed to be vulnerable, here of all places. If there is one place I'm not a "victim," it's work. I'm a boss and I am an expert in my field, and I am extremely proactive and resourceful. However, my situation is such that I live in less than a "boom town" and have a very high level position in a very specialized field, meaning I don't have a lot of options that come up on the regular locally. I've been feverishly pounding the pavement with my resume, even before this situation, just to ensure I have options and networks open to me. I am currently DOUBLING those efforts. I might even have to move out to state to take a job elsewhere, which is not ideal at the moment.

Like I said, I'm allowed to be vulnerable without being criticized for it. This situation was beyond my control and through no fault of mine and I'm paying dearly for it. It happened to occur at the worst possible time for me. I've pulled myself up by my own bootstraps my entire life. I'm not a "victim," but I'm allowed to feel sad and unlucky in this moment.

[WitzEndWife]

What happened with my work was that a C-suite in charge of finance was found to have been siphoning millions from the business and from our retirement accounts, which the company legally has to now make up. On top of this, a top client decided to cut half of their budget, so we're in hot water for making payroll. All of us are taking a cut, topline employees getting the most sliced out.

[formflier]

Hey...I know this is a tough time.  You can express that to him...thank him for his offer and take him up on it.

Strike while the iron is hot. 

Realizing that he may say no..may say never said it..or may say yes. 

There is only one way to find out.

He's put the ball in your court...bottom of the 9th...time for you to swing (even though it's been a long game)

Hang in there.

FF

[Enabler]

Hey, I’m sorry you took what I said as criticism, I didn’t mean it that way at all. I’m not suggesting the emotions you’re feeling  aren’t valid given the situation you find yourself in. My use of the word ‘victimy’ was chosen to describe the words you used to describe your work situation. What I am suggesting is that those feelings, and framing your situation in a certain way, aren’t going to make you happier... and by reframing your situation and apparent loss of choice, you can trick your mind into feeling happier, telling it that you have choice and you’re not just at the mercies of externalities.

Sounds like you are a victim though... a victim of embezzlement, a victim of corporate.mismanagement, a victim of BPD, and a victim of circumstances.

Enabler

[Lucky Jim]

Hey WEW, I find it unlikely that he will move out on his own, due to fear of abandonment.  Those w/BPD "threaten" to do a lot of things that rarely come to fruition.  As you note, he has mentioned it before.

I have no problem with you calling him on his threats by saying, more or less, go ahead and move out if you want to.

I agree w/Cat Familiar: you're going to have to take the initiative, as much as you hope to avoid it.

LJ