Housing crisis due to "control" issues

[G1B8oN]

Myself and my uBPD girlfriend have been looking to move to a city closer to my work where she is also planning to do a course of study.

I know this area much better and already work in this city so the house hunting has been left to me. This seems like a logical decision but has been making me nervous because I know how she can be with me "controlling" her.

I've been finding properties and then sending her the links for her approval/disapproval. She's very particular but says she can't take any time of work to view properties so it's just been me going to view them.

I'm a little skeptical about her inability to take any time off to view, her employer is very flexible and would probably be happy with her making up the time by coming in earlier or at a weekend.

Each property I've viewed (which involves me taking time off work, paying for expensive city-centre parking and coming home late) she's given reasons why it's no good. Last night I viewed a property that was almost perfect.

She was supposed to be available at the viewing times so that I could video phone her and show her around but almost every viewing she's ignored my calls. It was the same last night so I recorded a video and sent her that instead. She saw it but didn't respond...so I called her.

The rental market is crazy, if you see a good property then you need to take it there and then if possible and I've discussed this with her before. I told her I'd found a property I really liked and tried to describe it to her, highlighting the aspects of it that were suited to her needs and how I'd taken on board her earlier feedback. She was very negative. Refused to look at the video till she got home.

I got home and asked her what she thought but instead she picked a fight with me for pressuring her and being inconsiderate. I admitted that I'd been swept away by the property and was very anxious not to lose it as I though it was perfect for us. I apologised for making her feel rushed and pressuring her. She still wouldn't give a proper opinion on the property and said it was "fine" and when I asked if she thought we should go for it she said "whatever".

I called the agency first thing and am waiting for the landlord to decide if he'll accept us. I updated her and she was outraged that I'd made this decision on her behalf.

uBPDgf: U went for it then

Me: Tried to, are you ok with that?

uBPDgf: What difference does it make whether I am or not?

Me: It makes all the difference. I won't go for it if you don't want me to

uBPDgf: You already did. This is not what people in a relationship do to each other. Anyway I'm going for dinner with my friend. You are welcome to join

Me: I strongly thought you said it looked OK and that it was OK to go for it...so that's what I did. If you don't want to go for it then I won't. Nothing has been done yet other than to pass on a message to the landlord that we're interested. Dinner sounds nice, I will be happy to come along with you. Please can you give me an honest assessment of whether I should put down a deposit on this house or not? What do you think is the wisest course of action? It's a very good price in a very good area but that means nothing if you don't want to go there

uBPDgf: I just knew you'd go ahead and do what you wanted anyway without any consideration of me. It's upsetting and does absolutely nothing for my trust in you. I change things for you, yet you can't for me.   It's meant to be our house, not yours. It's meant to be our decision, not yours

Me: I wanted to discuss it with you, I want your opinion. You gave me very little to go on last night but I thought you said it looked OK and when asked if we should go for it I recall something along the lines of "sure, whatever". Please can I have your honest assessment of the house?

uBPDgf: Honey you wanted me to stop dead from walking home to look at pics you'd sent when it was about to piss it down with rain. You have no consideration for anyone but yourself and I'm scared of being in a relationship in which I am not valued. The house looks OK, it's who I'm supposed to be sharing it with that's questionable. I would've liked time to consider it but you just put me on the spot I know you picked it cos it's cheap and has room for your bike. But it's not gonna be so easy for me to get to uni, I'll have to make sacrifices... Just like my furniture, the only things I actually have. When will you stop? When will things not just be about you? I feel like you'll not be content until youve stripped me of everything, Taken me away from my family and got me captives in a house I can't afford without you and I'll solely depend on you. You seem to want to exercIse full control, full power over me. I have to do what you say and what you want yet you can do what you like... It's not fair

Me: I like this house because I've listened to what you have said...
1. It has room for most of your furniture, maybe all of it and what doesn't fit in the house will go in the garage
2. It's a low crime area so the stuff in the garage will be safe
3. It's right on the bus route, the buses are regular
4. It's 20 mins walk to the train station and the train only takes 11 mins
I've been looking at houses for many months now. This is one of the best I've seen. It's also a good price which surely benefits both of us? There is only just over a month to go and I'm very aware that there have been periods of 2 weeks where not a single good house has come up. There hasn't been a single one this week.

uBPDgf: You didn't give that message much thought if your retaliation is to list reasons to me. I never stood a chance did I. Haha. Can't say this behaviour isn't becoming predictable. Maybe look up emotional intelligence and work on that next eh.

Me: I didn't realise it was about to rain and I understand that you felt I was rushing you, I was, I've apologised for that, it was inconsiderate. I'd hoped you might have been able to hang on a few mins at work to look at it as you were there when I first called. 
There's simply not any houses that are 100% perfect. We'd have to pay a  lot more per month and neither of us can afford that

uBPDgf: I Told you it was gonna piss it down...you were just hell-bent on your own cause. I just don't know anymore

Me: Yes, I wasn't listening very well. It took a while to sink in about the rain. I made a mistake. I've aplogised

uBPDgf: Honey when I'm clearly stressed and busy you offer no help, nothing. I didn't even have dinner last night because I was so busy and yet you want me to drop everything for a phonecall and make a decision at the click of your fingers. God the irony.

Me: It's a very stressful time. I know you've got a lot on and so much to think about. Sometimes it's better for us to spend an hour apart when things get heated between us. It's not about not wanting to help you, it's about cooling off so things don't get any worse. I was hoping to have a chat with you this evening to see if we couldn't troubleshoot some things together and see if there are some things we might be able to do to take some stress off each other. I missed tea too, we had very different priorities and I'm scared we are gonna end up in a house we'll both hate and be burgled!

uBPDgf: Well I don't have anything to lose if we're burgled

Me: I do. You've also got designer clothes, shoes and boots, passport, driving license, handbags, (new) laptop, PC, debit cards, savings account and probably password to access savings account somewhere. It's also an awful feeling that strangers have been in your home and ransacked your things. I think you know all this so I don't really understand why it's a discussion. A safe area also means we're less likely to be raped, mugged or murdered out of the house and lower insurance costs for the home and car. It also means the cat isn't likely to be kidnapped or abused by little who take advantage of her friendliness

uBPDgf: I never even debated this... I don't know why your continuing to try and justify why you did something wrong. The house or area is not what I'm debating... It's your ability to make decisions as a couple and think of people other than yourself

Me: You're right, this isn't necessary. My list was an attempt to demonstrate that I'd taken on board what you'd said about things like your furniture and getting to uni. I also thought of you when the landlord said it was a warm house and had a new boiler and was cheap to run. I'm trying to engage in this as a couple. Your opinion and feelings matter to me and are 50% of the decision process just as mine are the other 50%

uBPDgf: You can't talk your way out of a decision that you made on my behalf

Me: No decision has been made. If you don't want the house I will say no thanks if it's offered to us. Xxxx

Now she's stonewalling and I'm probably going to get a call from the landlord at any minute.

Am I right in thinking she's desperately trying to control the situation even though it's damaging to us both (and the cat)?

Thoughts?

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds like there are other issues in play, in addition to finding a rental. She sounds hesitant about making a commitment. What happens if you continue to live as you are now?

[G1B8oN]

I agree, I think she's unsure and is testing me.

There's no way the current situation can continue. I will not live with her ex partner any more, it's giving her far too much opportunity to Karpman triangle my home and I hate having a stranger in my house. I can't relax, I don't feel like I have privacy and this woman has been manipulating and stirring things in the background feeding my partner's already considerable paranoia and enabling her drug and alcohol misuse.

I do not want to continue commuting over 3 hours a day and my partner cannot afford to commute to do her postgraduate course so we both need to move closer to my work and her course.

Finally, we've handed in notice on this house already so there's no going back!

[formflier]

I would recommend finding a house that works for you and proceeding.  "leave the door open" for her to join you...but don't make your housing contingent on her agreement

Making things that matter to you contingent on her is not a good plan...for housing and other things.

Just as important to "invite her along".

That way it's her making the choice...not you.

Best,

FF

[boatingwoman]

How about you choose a housing unit and she can choose to live there with you or not?

[MiseryMarriage#3]

Yes, when a BPD feels out of control, they usually try to gain control of a situation through anger, accusations, and host of other tactics.  She sounds very fearful.  BPs are often driven by fear - both fear of failure (because then she is not perfect) and fear of success (because then she may fail).  She is afraid -that is the real underlying issue and unfortunately the communication style is ugly and harsh.  Hopefully you can look past the harsh tone and accusations and see that the bottom line is she is afraid of a lot of things. 

Another thing that has happened in my situation is where one of us is always put on a pedestal - usually me.  Now, that sounds like a sense of awe, wonder, and worship.  Let me assure you coming from a BP it is not.  What it means is a catch 22.  If she can make you the decision maker and responsible for everything then she can't fail. The problem with letting that communication style become a habit is that you have a heavy load / burden on your shoulders that is not fair.  Ever.  My counselor tries to point out to my hBPD (husband) is when communication goes in that direction.  It usually sounds like this - "She controls everything."  "She has the power." "She wins."  Of which I respond - I don't want it!  I don't want the power and control.  I want and equal level relationship.  Now we are talking 3 years deep for me and only 18 months of that sober, so we have a ways to go.  This is not an overnight or even months - you are signing up for years if not a lifetime of working at something that is very hard even when 2 people are very self-aware.  She doesn't sound aware at all. 

Props to you for having such a healthy communication style.  I'd be through the roof.  I can't tell you how to change that dynamic.  For me, it's been walking away multiple times to get him to understand that whether he sees it or thinks of it as a mental illness or not, certain things are not going to fly.  After so much time living with me, he has even agreed and repeated what the counselor has explained that I bring a lot of structure and stability to his life.  How to get to a BPD to become more aware of their "issues" is almost impossible for some by all accounts that I see on this site.  So, you seem to be doing the right things by being a mirror to her through your communication.  However, I would get to a counselor for help learning how to do this without her participation quick, fast, and in a hurry.  Buy books.  It's a way different way to think and communicate than with a non-BPD partner. 

[G1B8oN]

Thanks you all for your thoughts. I value and appreciate every one of them and I'm always amazed that there are so many people willing to contribute their time and energy into other's problems! 

I had considered just saying to her that I liked the house and was gonna go for it but I think that would be giving her exactly what she wants but doesn't want (BPD logic - I'm gonna test you and see if I can push you to make a decision but I *really* don't want you to even though I'm gonna try my damnedest to make it happen!)

This is especially relevant considering our recent history https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337608.0 whereby I made the decision to move to this city during a 2 month period where she'd broken up with me.

The conversation continued for a while and then out of the blue she said "If you think I'll like it then go for it. Fine."

Hardly a ringing endorsement but hey ho.

I too can see a lot of fear. I actually believe her fear is about her upcoming Masters degree. She's terrified of it and it having second-thoughts due to her low self esteem and fear of failure. I've listened carefully to her fears, validated where I can, told her I have faith in her and that I am happy to try and trouble-shoot any issues she might think I can help her with but this is a huge big scary step for her.  She's also fearful of my commitment to the relationship. I really don't think she ever thought I'd break up with her and it's shaken her to her core that I did. It's ironic really because the reason I made that decision was that she'd broken up with *me* so many times that *I'd* lost trust in her commitment.

She quite often tries to pick fights with me when she doesn't want to do something or is fearful of it. Last week it was hard drugs. She wanted to do them at a party she was going to. I said that it was up to her but she knew that I had always been very clear I would not be in a relationship with someone who uses hard drugs. I would not ask her not to but I was clear of my stance. She tried to pick fights with me for two days straight so she could use that to justify using. I didn't bite, saw it coming a mile off, she didn't use anything so normal service resumed!

As I've not heard from the landlord I'm assuming he's given it to someone else anyway, he probably picked up on the fact she'd not bothered to view it or even answer my video call.

We're going to couple's therapy. We have our first appointment tomorrow in fact. I've managed to make it with a therapist who specialises in PD couples and DBT. She's also supposed to be getting some NHS counselling following her latest thwarted suicide attempt but the waiting list is long. I've been reading, I never seem to stop haha!

So far I've studied... stop walking on eggshells and its workbook, loving someone with borderline personality disorder, I hate you, don't leave, the codependency recovery plan and now I'm half way through Codependent no more. I'm determined to improve my communication, boundary setting and enforcing and continuing to keep on top of my Mediterranean-Irish temper!

I can see that there's lots of future battles to come, she won't take time off work to view properties but won't trust me to pick one on our behalf...nice catch-22 there. I can see that she's trying to cage-build. I just hope the poor therapist can help us navigate this current dilemma tomorrow!

[formflier]

I had considered just saying to her that I liked the house and was gonna go for it but I think that would be giving her exactly what she wants but doesn't want (BPD logic - I'm gonna test you and see if I can push you to make a decision but I *really* don't want you to even though I'm gonna try my damnedest to make it happen!)
 

So...here is the thing.  You are making all these decisions because of her and BPD and how your decisions would likely be interpreted.

That (to me) seems to be making your life and decisions about her.  It would be one thing if there was solid history and a reasonable expectation of a solid future...yet we know that's not the case.

We're dealing with this BPDish thing and the inconsistency that naturally flows from that.  

Please think for a minute...think deeply about this.  Will your housing choices affect the "inconsistency" that is a natural part of BPDish behavior/thought?

Hint..the answer is no.

If you want a future..or the possibility of a future, then my advice is to be as consistent as possible and "navigate" based off of your needs...vice what they "possibly" might think...or what they "want but don't want".

There is little chance you can out think BPD.

There is a reasonable argument to be made that if you consistently make good choices for you and you leave the door open for her to come along (or not)...that she will find you more attractive and "safe" and the relationship may grow and deepen.

If you make your decisions based on how she makes her decisions..or how she interprets the world...that's a spiral to doom.  

Asked another way.  What theory is out there about improving a relationship with a pwBPD that states...give them what they want...only make decisions they are ok with?

Really..is any relationship that way?  

Steward your own life first...the rest will fall in place.

Best,

FF

[G1B8oN]

So I'm avoiding a conflict now but storing up trouble for the future you reckon FF? I can definitely see the sense in what you have said.

Making that stand will not be easy though! Wish me luck!

[formflier]

So I'm avoiding a conflict now but storing up trouble for the future you reckon FF?

Can you explain this bit better?  What conflict are you avoiding now?  What trouble is stored up for the future?

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that those comments reflect "buy in" for disordered thinking your pwBPD has been "testing out" on you.

Let's rationally examine the following statements.

I've determined I can't live in the current situation and will no longer commute 3 hours per day.  I took action and found a wonderful living situation that I like and my commute is (insert dramatically lower number) per day.  I've also invited my SO to come along with me.

Where is the conflict?

Now...I'm sure..100% positive that your SO is "conflicted" about this situation.  That's her deal.  She can be "conflicted"..and you can be decisive and move forward.

Both can be true...you don't have to take part in her conflict.  Just like she doesn't have to take part in your moving forward with your future.  You've invited her..she knows she is wanted..but she has choices. 

Don't save her from her choices..and the chance to work through those and mature.

I can definitely see the sense in what you have said.

Making that stand will not be easy though! Wish me luck!

There is a reason it "isn't easy".  I was in a similar boat years ago.  Many others were as well.  We put others needs consistently above ours.

That can work out ok if your partner is doing the same.  Yet..we know with pwBPD that rarely happens.

So..we put their needs even further ahead of our own and the relationship deteriorates.  It seems counter-intuitive to believe that "being selfish" will improve your relationship..but I believe it will.

Big picture this is about respect.  If you don't respect yourself enough to steward yourself FIRST...why should your pwBPD? 

You can do this..!

Best,

FF

[G1B8oN]

Just a bit of background. Our original plan was for her to pick a degree anywhere in the country. I'd get a job there (pre-Brexit the employment market was much more rosy in my line of work) and we'd go together. The trouble was she never picked a degree and it was getting to the point where I'd have no time to find a job. She then broke up with me for 2 months and during that time, thinking that was the end, I decided to move to the city nearer to my work to cut down my commute. This city has always been painted black in her view as it takes me away from her every day as I go to work so it's not somewhere she'd ever choose to live. When we got back together I chose to stand my ground and told her I was still going to move and that she was welcome to come along, in fact I'd love it if she did. After a lot of upset and accusations of selfishness and not caring she relented and said she'd move with me.

So, I've already stood my ground in choosing the location we're living. If I'm then very unilateral in choosing the house too I feel that I am actually being a little bit unreasonable. She is moving a little further away from her family, she is moving to a city she hates, she is moving without her enabling ex-partner "friend" safety blanket who she's lived with for 7 years in order to pursue a relationship with me. I do stand to benefit slightly more from this arrangement than she does BUT her view of it is very exaggerated and distorted, that is clear too.

If I follow the advice to just say I'm going there and she can come along if she wants here's how I expect it will go...

G1bbon: I like this house, I think it's perfect for both of us. I'm going to pick it because I truly believe we can build a nice home there together. I'd be really delighted if you'd move there with me

uBPDgf: I see, what you mean is that you've selfishly picked a house that you like and you're gonna off and live there whether I want to go or not? I see this whole thing has been a game to you. You've allowed me to believe that we have a future and now you're tossing me away like trash, I can come with you if I want to? Oh thanks how kind of you. You're the most selfish person I've ever met and only care about what's good for you. I've only ever been an afterthought to you. Well, I'm not playing this game with you any more, I want to be in a relationship with someone who does things together, as a team. You're only in it for yourself.

This will be her mantra for days, weeks or months during which her "friend" who is currently living with us will swoop in and offer to let her live with her and rescue her from mean and nasty G1bbon. I don't think it's a coincidence that this woman has only been looking for 2 bedroom houses in my partners home town, near my partners family. And off she'll go with the perfect excuse to give up her masters degree (the prospect of which is terrifying her), it'll be all my fault for being selfish and pig-headed. I'll end up living miles away in a house that's bigger and more expensive than I would have chosen for myself probably in an area that's more expensive due to close proximity to public transport (I have a car and bike so don't need this) and I'll end up spending all my time at her house because I have the car and and it'll be lose-lose all around.

I can already see that fear and guilt are driving a lot of my process here but I think it's also that some of what she says is valid and I'm getting hung up on that...I'm only a toddler in the art of boundary setting and not being in the FOG and I think I have a lot of growth to do in this area. Emotionally right now I think I would rather find some sort of compromise even though it's not the emotionally "healthiest" choice. If we haven't got this house (and it's looking like we haven't) it's partly a moot point anyway and I think then we need to have a discussion about how we can find a house when she can't/won't take time off to view them and won't let me choose one for us.

It's quite disturbing how quickly her response came to me. I barely had to think about it and it's uncannily like something she'd say. Just how much of this script goes around subconsciously in my head all day? I feel like I've been programmed...

[formflier]

So...pick three houses/apartments..whatever.

Ask her which of those three she prefers.  If she has found houses and one of them works for her...pick that.

Here is another scenario (very likely).  You pick a house..she doesn't like it.  You pick another..she doesn't like it...and accuses you of picking houses "she hates" just to upset her..that it's a reflection of your feelings for her...and that you don't like her two horned unicorn.

Next thing you know...you have to move out of your current place...and have 2 days to find a house.

Still...I stand by my point.  You are making your housing choices based on her "potential" (and yes likely) reactions.  

Now...big breath.  How have your attempts to control her emotions and actions worked in the past?

Clarity...if you invite her to go look at houses...and she is cooperative..by all means include her.  When she dysregulates..continue on.  

Once she understands that her tantrums no longer control your life...I believe your relationship will improve

FF

Bonus question:  How much energy should you put into convincing her that you do like her two horned unicorn? 

Super bonus question:  How does that relate to your housing issue?

[G1B8oN]

I see your point. I'm letting her distortions and dysregulations dictate my actions even though I know they are untrue. I really should stick to my truth and let her kick her feet as much as she likes, *I* know that I'm looking for a house that is best for both of us and that's my truth.

The more energy I put into telling her the two-horned unicorn is great, the more I convince her it's real and I can see it, perpetuating the delusion and telling her that I'm willing to allow her to shape my reality and that I will respond how she wants to threats, blame and gaslighting. If I act as though she's right, I'm being selfish and she didn't agree to go for this house then I'm reinforcing that delusion, same as if I argued that it was untrue. The best thing I can probably do is to continue pursuing the house that I believe is best for us, engage her if she's willing and continue to act my truth.

As an aside, she did agree to take this house, I remembered last night I'd recorded the conversation...her words were "it looks great, go for it, whatever" 

I wish I had three houses to pick from haha! It's a total nightmare. I've viewed 7 and this was the only one that I thought was OK and I've been looking in earnest since late May.

Unfortunately, acquiescing and accommodating her in these kinds of situations does sometimes work in that it avoids conflict and blaming but of course it would also hurt us both because we'd be walking away from something that might have been the best choice for us.

Would you characterise her behaviour in the texts as a tantrum? I viewed it more along the lines of a sort of panic attack, "stop the world I wanna get off!" because she's feeling totally overwhelmed, scared and out of control.

[formflier]

The best thing I can probably do is to continue pursuing the house that I believe is best for us, engage her if she's willing and continue to act my truth.
 

You have it. 

Keep reminding yourself of this statement. 

As an aside...D22 and her new hubby are looking for rental houses.  To say it's been frustrating is an understatement.  Best of luck in your search...it will be over soon!

Hang in there.

 

FF

[G1B8oN]

Thanks! I hate moving house, keep promising myself that I'll buy the next one but I just need a little bit more deposit...soon I hope!

[Enabler]

Hiya,

This is boundary bashing and fence wiggling  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337721.0

This is all part of the process of creating a perpetual state of emotional vibration / uncertainty / chaos / Push-Pull / confusion, it keeps you off balance and prevents you from making effective high quality decisions. She oscillates between telling you it's okay and then denying she said that. It's crazy making. I am completely with FF on the optimal plan of action.

How does this behaviour loop back to your ground rules of the new start? How much are you conceding ground?

Do you see the Karpman triangle in this? You are rescuing (GF see's flat mate as rescuing), she is victim (although you see yourself as victim), You see GF and Flat mate as perpetrator (Your GF see's you as perpetrator now)... all 3 of you are spinning around the Karpman triangle at a rate of knots. Mentally extricate yourself from it.

Enabler

[Waddams]

Maybe this is a great opportunity for you to tell her that you are renting the place for yourself, moving on such and such a date, and she and this other person need to find their own new living arrangements because you've rented the place in just your name you won't be allowing them to move into YOUR new place.

Then you don't have to live with this situation anymore.

[G1B8oN]

Maybe this is a great opportunity for you to tell her that you are renting the place for yourself, moving on such and such a date, and she and this other person need to find their own new living arrangements because you've rented the place in just your name you won't be allowing them to move into YOUR new place.

Then you don't have to live with this situation anymore.

Erm, because despite her crazy-making antics I do actually want to live with my partner. Though if she chooses to live with her "friend" it's her choice and I won't fight it. My boundary there is that I will not live with her ex-partner friend any more, if my partner wants to live with me, well that would be my preferred choice as long as she comes alone. If not then they are welcome to  off and build a cozy nest together.

[G1B8oN]

More boundary wiggling on Friday night, we went to our first couple's counselling appt. It went OK but we didn't get into much big stuff due to it being the first appt.

We talked about her jealousy, it then became about how I no longer act jealous, possessive or controlling and how she takes this to mean that I don't care about her. The counsellor seemed to be getting the idea that she's gonna be a tough client, poor guy. It was also sparkling clear that she's totally unable to empathise with me in any way whatsoever which is not entirely unexpected but a to me in terms of our future if she can't/won't develop this skill.

I offered to buy us takeout as I didn't feel inclined to cook and when we got home (and I was in my pyjamas) I asked her which of her two favourite Chinese takeaway's she'd like me to order from. Her response was "I want the ribs from this place but the rest from the other". I explained this would not be possible, there were large minimum order costs plus delivery costs for each. She then said "you can drive to the closest one, get ribs and then order online from the other". I said "no, I'm not driving anywhere, I'm in my PJ''s and I wanna relax". If she wanted to walk to the nearby takeout (it's only a 5 minute walk) I'd give her the money but I had no plans to leave the house. She got upset then, saying that I'd have driven to the takeout 2.5 years ago when we got together! I said, "perhaps, but today I will not be driving". I then chose one of the takeout options and placed an order of our favourite stuff. She stormed upstairs in tears and said "you've really upset me" and refused to eat anything when it arrived.

The next day I found her eating the leftover takeout I'd kept for her in the refrigerator and she was as nice as pie all weekend!

I've got two house viewings today, wish me luck!

 

[Enabler]

Do you see what seems to happen when you stand strong and don't yield to her unreasonable fence post wiggling?

Be careful not to get into the habit of saying no to everything and anything. It takes effort to no slip down the slope of 'contempt' for want of a better word. It takes effort to consider everything in singularity and weigh up whether or not it's okay or not okay. Each time you push back it does cause her pain, there is a toll and it is cumulative, like scar tissue. BUT, you either manage her by managing yourself, or you lose yourself.

Enabler

[formflier]

I'm curious about the finances of the relationship.  Could she have purchased her own takeout?

Please don't hear me saying you were "wrong"...but I think what she "heard" from the experience was that you are invested in her "happiness" to an extent (vice her "hearing" that she is in charge of her "happiness")

The issue was food...and she busted through that "boundary" (topic) and made it about the relationship...and while you didn't totally "buy into it"...you allowed and responded to some rummaging around in places that are not helpful for your relationship.

My take:  You offer to buy food...she says yes or no...and expresses appreciation with either response.  Period.

I would also suggest that you be explicit (once) about the "why" of the stance you are taking.  "I'm offering takeout...I'm not offering a relationship conversation at the moment.  I'll be available for a deep talk tomorrow at (time).  "

If she won't give you an answer...go ahead and order your takeout and go about your evening.  Again...you are in PJs...you have a relaxing evening planned and you have invited her for that.

She is inviting you for a drama filled evening...just as you deserve a clear answer..so does she.

Have you ever done couples counseling before?  Have you ever done couples counseling with her before?

Broadly..I recommend taking a "puzzled" approach...rather than I'm right and you are wrong. 

"I don't understand this...but I would like to understand.  Please connect the dots with how (insert your reaction to jealousy) is helpful for our relationship?"

Puzzled..curious..."i want the best for us"

Best,

FF

[G1B8oN]

Do you see what seems to happen when you stand strong and don't yield to her unreasonable fence post wiggling?

Be careful not to get into the habit of saying no to everything and anything. It takes effort to no slip down the slope of 'contempt' for want of a better word. It takes effort to consider everything in singularity and weigh up whether or not it's okay or not okay. Each time you push back it does cause her pain, there is a toll and it is cumulative, like scar tissue. BUT, you either manage her by managing yourself, or you lose yourself.

Enabler

Yeah, don't worry, I'm conscious of not turning into a total ***hole who says no to everything. I'm trying to ask myself every time what my underlying motivation for saying yes or no to something is. If I'm tempted to  say yes just to avoid FOG then it's a safe bet I should really be saying no. If I'm doing something because I actually want to do something nice then I'll say yes!

[Enabler]

Good for you. It's tough and sometimes you need to gain time to weigh those things up. Time we've seen your GF is reluctant to give you without reading in "she loves me, she loves me not" into your motivations for needing time and space.

What's happened with the house move and signing a new lease?

Enabler

[G1B8oN]

I'm curious about the finances of the relationship.  Could she have purchased her own takeout?

Please don't hear me saying you were "wrong"...but I think what she "heard" from the experience was that you are invested in her "happiness" to an extent (vice her "hearing" that she is in charge of her "happiness")

The issue was food...and she busted through that "boundary" (topic) and made it about the relationship...and while you didn't totally "buy into it"...you allowed and responded to some rummaging around in places that are not helpful for your relationship.

My take:  You offer to buy food...she says yes or no...and expresses appreciation with either response.  Period.

I would also suggest that you be explicit (once) about the "why" of the stance you are taking.  "I'm offering takeout...I'm not offering a relationship conversation at the moment.  I'll be available for a deep talk tomorrow at (time).  "

If she won't give you an answer...go ahead and order your takeout and go about your evening.  Again...you are in PJs...you have a relaxing evening planned and you have invited her for that.

She is inviting you for a drama filled evening...just as you deserve a clear answer..so does she.

Have you ever done couples counseling before?  Have you ever done couples counseling with her before?

Broadly..I recommend taking a "puzzled" approach...rather than I'm right and you are wrong. 

"I don't understand this...but I would like to understand.  Please connect the dots with how (insert your reaction to jealousy) is helpful for our relationship?"

Puzzled..curious..."i want the best for us"

Best,

FF

Yeah, I almost fell into an escalating drama with her and I'm glad I didn't go any further into discussions about the food. Her income is a lot less than mine and so if I'm offering to buy takeout then I wouldn't expect her to walk AND pay for her ribs. I didn't have an issue with paying, just being expected to jump through hoops that would make takeout more stressful than just cooking for us.

We allegedly take it in turns to cook and wash up. We don't really, it used to be me doing 95% of the cooking and washing up but I've withdrawn from that a lot now. I'll cook for us both and if she doesn't wash up, I'll leave it until she does. If she doesn't take her turn to cook (with some flexibility around our schedules etc.) then I'll just feed myself.

I've only done some individual counselling before, not couples. I'm trying to ensure I'm not being adversarial. I'm owning up 100% to the stuff I've done in the relationship and reflecting on that and how I now view things differently. In the session she was very resistant to speak and owned up to nothing. The main message from the session was that she preferred me when I was jealous and controlling and now she doesn't like it that I don't act that way because it means I care less about her.

Puzzled seems like a good strategy!  

[G1B8oN]

Good for you. It's tough and sometimes you need to gain time to weigh those things up. Time we've seen your GF is reluctant to give you without reading in "she loves me, she loves me not" into your motivations for needing time and space.

What's happened with the house move and signing a new lease?

Enabler

We didn't get offered the house in the end. There were 8 applicants and we were the second choice but the landlord was wary because he hadn't met my partner and she represented an "unknown" factor.

A perfect (in my opinion) house has come up and I've managed to snag the first viewing tomorrow. She's acting much like with the last one I liked, she sees my enthusiasm for it as railroading and controlling her, the fact I like it seems to mean that she feels threatened and she ranted about how I always get my own way. She also said that if I liked it maybe I should just apply on my own. There were also lots of rumblings about how she didn't trust the relationship, that she's not sure about the relationship or me etc. I just said I liked it and it would be nice if she'd book the morning off to view it (which she actually has done) and I would like to live with her as a couple but that's her choice. I didn't get angry or upset and that seemed to upset her even more. In her view I should have hugged her whilst she was ranting and raving at me...I didn't much fancy it at the time. I did give her a hug later on though when she spoke to me calmly and respectfully.

As we're literally out of time, unless I see a major issue with it I'm gonna apply for it. I can just about afford it on my own so it's up to her if she comes along or not.

[formflier]

controlling her

Absolutely yes!  Fess up to this. 

"I was listening in couples counseling.  I understand you like me better when I'm controlling...so I'm listening to your desires."   

Drop the mike...apply for the house and invite her along.  No more discussion.

Best,

FF

[G1B8oN]

Haha, I see what you mean and it could definitely be a valid strategy but I'm not sure it's one I'm personally comfortable with for a number of reasons...

1. I'm not controlling her by liking a house. To say that I was would be lying. I'm not really comfortable with lying to her like this and whilst I see how it validates her feelings of being controlled wouldn't I be validating the invalid?

2. When we talked about my past controlling ways in therapy and after I made it very clear that such behaviour was to remain in the past. If she wanted a partner who made her feel valued by behaving in a jealous or controlling way then she'll have to look elsewhere because I don't like the person I was and I will never be that person again

[formflier]

OK..that's wise position to take.  Still...when they ask for two completely different things..it's wise to hand it back to them to clarify.

"Hey...I'm perplexed.  I was trying to listen and understand the other day when you wanted the controlling me back, yet now you describe my control as a negative.   Please help me understand this.."
 
Depending on the "tone" that my wife brings such things to me..I tend to reflect that tone back and let her deal with it.

For instance..a month or so ago she went on and on about how much we talk and that we could talk less ( ...I am a talker..)  Then later she got in a snit and was disparaging our relationship and that "we never talk anymore."

"FFw..this sounds really important to you, yet it's perplexing to me..because in the past few hours you've claimed we talk to much and we never talk.  So which is it?" 

My intent her was to "back her down"...I had no interest in being gentle...so there was an eye to eye intense stare from me. 

She hushed...stammered. 

hushed again.

"When you pick your point of view..I'll be available to continue our discussion."

She sighed and I walked away.  No further discussion.

Best,

FF

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 2 is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338388.0

Thank you.