Divorce implications on kids

[Arthur J]

Hi there
I’ve been married for 12 years now and have 3 kids aged 7,9&11. In my desperate search to make sense out of my deteriorating health and the other typical conditions, I discovered BPD and that my wife may suffer from this. For the 1st time everything seemed to make sense. In the meantime I have recovered quite a bit, have set stricter boundaries, detached more emotionally, invested more time into the kids, started looking after myself, she has been seeing a clinical doctor, is on medication etc.

Although it has been subdued, the still continual underlying disrespect, manipulation, emotional mood swings, lack of order, blaming etc (not all the time, but you never know what is next) has brought me to a point where I can’t pretend anymore. I’m tired of always being the least, trying to keep the peace, the routine, cheering up the kids etc. I need to start a new job soon but lack the motivation since I know there won’t be any support, rather the typical silent sabotage. Our consequent current financial situation brings increased tension and is a focus for the blaming game, but even when our finances was much better it was the same.

I’ve reached a point where it feels like I’ll have to sacrifice and compromise being myself + live life to the full in order to be there for my kids until they leave school in 12 years, or I have to separate from my wife, get my life back, but then have to make the best and trust that my kids would be ok with all the consequences of divorce at this vulnerable young age.

I’m not sure what to do. My good Christian values and my strong believe in the value of the family unit make me hesitant to consider a divorce. There are also very few people out there, including therapists, who truly understand the reality of BPD or BPD symptoms and the extremely systematic underlying devastating impact it has over time. Especially when everything looks so perfect to the outside world compared to the subtle manipulative emotional hijacking that goes on in the inside.

My question is: how should I think about the impact on my 3 little girls? They and their wellbeing and their best chance to be ok is my biggest priority when looking at my different scenarios or options and the decisions I need to make.

[Kingherc]

Arthur,
   I feel for you and am sorry you are going through all this. I am in a similar situation. My w and I marriage has been turbulent for the entire 11 years. It’s been just recently I discovered BPD and have come to the conclusion with the aid of my own counselor that this is the most likely situation I am facing. The marriage is beyond repair at this point. I can never trust her again regardless of understanding why she does the things she does.

The only reason I haven’t left yet is my kids. I have struggled with the question of which is better to stay and try and protect them or leave and provide a stable home for 50% of the time. Obviously ever situation is different but what I have come to is I have to leave. I realized a few months back that by staying I am teaching my kids that this is what marriage is. I can’t live with the idea that I am showing them that they should either be treated or treat someone this way. I want to leave so I can show them what a healthy stable home truly is.

I know the divorce is going to be devastating but and maybe naively I believe that this is what is best for my boys. I haven’t filed yet but am planning on doing so in about 6 months to give time for my w to continue in her counseling and get through the holidays. This is the hardest decision I have ever made but I know staying would probably not last even if I tried. It’s time to go.

The one thing I have been told over and over again by counselors is that I have to make sure no matter what I do to stay actively engaged in my kids lives. They will suffer but will also pull through it or so I hope.

[mart555]

I was in a similar situation so you may want to search for my previous posts but in a nutshell:
2 boys, 10 and 14

The divorce is the best thing I did for them.   We only truly realized how messed up life at home was once she was out and the fog cleared up a bit.  The kids sleep better, are less stressed (unless they go for a visit or communicate with her) but at least they get a glimpse of what normal life should be.

Now that the kids see how toxic their mother can be they understand why I wanted a divorce, they even said so.  And have accepted it.  The youngest one wasn't so keen on it for the first few months and hated me because of it.  That wasn't easy.

You'll question yourself a lot, and feel guilty.  I recommend this book to help you https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama/dp/1442238321


You may also want to read the book "splitting" by Bill Eddy.  The situation can turn explosive..  but it's a bomb waiting to go off and life is short

[ForeverDad]

I was married for over a decade before having one child.  Immediately I discerned a major change for the worse, a distancing.  It was her and her child against the world.  In time it became a world of 'probably' abusers.  (The abuser in her childhood was abuser stepfather and enabling mother.  Eventually she was comparing me to her then-deceased stepfather.)

I was desperate to find a solution, something that worked.  Nothing I did succeeded for long, whether repeated apologies, appeasement or whatever.  As it turned out, she started looking sideways at me as though I too was an abuser, so quickly divorce became the only option for me.

Then I was able to see the positive aspects of divorce.  Positive?  Yes.  Courts will decide on joint custody details (no, you won't lose the kids) and a workable parenting schedule (okay, it may take a few times back in court to get a schedule that works).  By having that framework then you can stick to it and not face ex's continual mood swings and demands.

There is more.  The kids will have time with you where you are parenting and ex is elsewhere.  You can have a stable and loving home which enables the kids to see the difference between the two environments.  Of course, this means that you have to be strategically smart as you seek the most parenting time and responsibility as your court will order.  We here in peer support are excellent in sharing what worked for us, and what didn't work so well.

I'm not saying you have to divorce.  Things have improved in your family, though still problems persist.  What could be manageable for one person may not be enough for you.  That's okay.  You're realizing where things ought to be, not how much you can suffer.  So one of our initial tasks here is to educate you with a variety of skills and perspectives so that you are capable of making more informed and more confident decisions.

You must read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder before starting a divorce.

[kells76]

Hi Arthur J, welcome to the group 

Sounds like you've been through a lot with your W (wife), and even though you've made some personal changes that are helping (good job, by the way), it's still clear that your W probably won't change.

So you're trying to figure out

how should I think about the impact on my 3 little girls?

Good question to have at the start of this decision tree process. You're in a position that could be really strong, actually, as you're asking these questions and sorting through options before reflexively making a decision.

I want to encourage you to (as long as it's safe) take your time and maybe don't feel pressured to jump to making a decision just yet. Gather information -- like ForeverDad mentioned, try to privately get a hold of "Splitting" and give it a read. Any way you could get an e-version to read at work? You know your W; consider how she might respond if she saw you reading that book. It's OK for you to just get some information on your own.

My quick backstory is that my dear husband (DH) has two girls who were 4 & 2 (almost 5 & 3) when he and their mom separated; 5 & 3 at the divorce. He hoped/believed that even though the marriage had become toxic, that he and Mom could set that aside to focus on the kids. For a while, during the separation, he was with the kids 100% of the time from after work to after putting the kids to bed. That changed as Mom brought in his replacement. The parenting plan was so vague that it was one line ("DH can be with the kids whenever he's not at work") but Mom interpreted it to her advantage. I think she was regulating her emotions by controlling his access to the kids.

Long story short, by taking the time now to think through different options and decisions, you can position yourself to stay in your kids' lives, if you do choose the route of divorce. We can help talk you through thoughts and ideas for what's best for your kids -- we've all been there/done that. Things that seem workable now might actually be huge problems down the road, as DH and I have learned the hard way.

Not to be all doom and gloom, though. As the other dads here have mentioned, sometimes divorcing and setting up a separate home can have its positives -- a place for the kids to see you parent on your own, without a dysfunctional other parent around.

I don't think any of us here would say that divorce is a great solution, or the only solution. It is often an option on the decision tree, and if you can take some time to "war game" it, you can get info to help you decide if it would ultimately be best for your kids. We'd love to help and support you as you think through what to do!

Anyway, again, welcome. Whenever you're up for it, let us know a little more about your kids! How are they doing so far?

[ForeverDad]

In the past insurance would often refuse to cover therapy for Borderline since for a long time it was considered an intractable disorder resistant to treatment.  So sometimes the patient would be diagnosed with Bipolar instead which did have health coverage.  Bipolar can be treated, it is a chemical or hormonal imbalance, however Borderline is more of a mental disorder.  Sure, meds can moderate some of the behaviors - as long as the person continues the meds - but the real answer is therapy which is applied in one's life, thinking and perceptions.  Therapies most often mentioned are DBT or CBT (Dialectical/Cognitive Behavioral Therapy).  Recovery is possible, generally taking years, but the person has to Let Go of the Denial and Blame Shifting and want to make those changes.

While we're not doctors, our collective experience has been that if the Denial, Blaming, Blame Shifting and Entitlement are not addressed and resolved, real recovery is unlikely.

[Harri]

Hi.    I can't comment on whether you should divorce or not.  I do want to address this question:

My question is: how should I think about the impact on my 3 little girls?

If you are going to consider the impact of divorce, you might also consider the impact on the kids when they are raised in a dysfunctional home that you find difficult to cope with as an adult.

Divorce can be tough on kids.  So can growing up in an environment where emotional and verbal abuse is common.  Even if they are not on the receiving end of that abuse, they are affected by it and in ways that are very difficult to see.  All kids will be affected by divorce and all kids will be affected by having a parent with a mental illness and another parent who is being abused and possibly enabling the situation.  The question is the degree to which they will be affected and the impact it will have later.

Most of the literature out there on the affects of divorce on kids, looks at the issue in isolation.  We here do not have the luxury of having just the one issue.  Our task becomes weighing the costs of weathering a divorce and weathering growing up in a dysfunctional home with mental illness.

I'm not sure if you read this article.  Take a look:  Have Your Parents Put You at Risk for Psychopathology and see if you think it applies to your situation.

Lesson 5: Raising Resilient Kids When a Parent Has BPD Not sure if you've seen this already but just in case I figured i would link it here.  There is lots of good information here and it will be applicable whether you stay or leave.

Good luck to you.

[Harper(n)]

Hi Arthur J, your situation sounds tough, and like it has a lot of similarities to mine.  It is an extraordinarily difficult decision, and I sympathize.

This comment from Harri really resonated with me:

Divorce can be tough on kids.  So can growing up in an environment where emotional and verbal abuse is common.  Even if they are not on the receiving end of that abuse, they are affected by it and in ways that are very difficult to see.  All kids will be affected by divorce and all kids will be affected by having a parent with a mental illness and another parent who is being abused and possibly enabling the situation.  

I am working on making a stay/leave decision, and in a way it's the devil I know vs. the one I don't. 

(As a brief aside, one thing I've found myself tripping over is the term "abuse[d]"...I find myself wanting to excuse/minimize the problem behaviors or words, since my uBPDh is not intentionally being hurtful to either of us.  Rather, it's because he's 1) in tremendous emotional anguish himself, 2) not able to manage his own emotions, and 3) uneducated about the importance of validating others or of identifying his own needs and working constructively to meet them..then how could it be abuse?  And therefore, what justification do I have for leaving? 

On the other hand, remove that word from Harri's statement, and the rest is still true.  There are clear negative consequences for the emotional health of children, and I worry they'll continue and worsen.  Intent is not the same as outcome, and I think my hangup over intent and the term "abuse" is an obstacle in my path.  The link to implictions for the kids is maybe that it has been obscuring my understanding of the effects of staying in an unhealthy r/s.) 

Regardless of whether you stay in or leave your marriage, I also thought I'd share a book I am just now reading that I love and feel like it has empowered me to lessen some of the negative implications for children either way.  The title doesn't sound connected to BPD, but the information on validation is especially relevant for our kids who probably have higher-than-average validation needs and perhaps frequent invalidation from a dysregulated parent:  The Power of Validation: Arming Your Child Against Bullying, Peer Pressure, Addiction, Self-Harm, and Out-of-Control Emotions, by Hall & Cook, https://www.amazon.com/Power-Validation-Addiction-Out-Control-ebook/dp/B005ZE5AYM/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=validating+children+bullying&qid=1564870341&s=books&sr=1-1

Best wishes for your day and peace on your journey,
H

[livednlearned]

What kind of relationship do the girls have with their mom? With you?

What are their temperaments like? Any signs that there may be genetic sensitivities that lead them to develop similar traits to mom?

I read research about the mental health effects on kids who have a BPD parent, divorced or not. Probably the biggest impact will come from your emotional leadership. They will need you to model emotional regulation skills, interpersonal conflict resolution skills, communication skills. A lot of those skills are not intuitive and must be learned (and practiced, a lot).

Whether you divorce or not, I can't say enough about Bill Eddy's book Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent Has BPD.

Dr. Craig Childress also discusses what he calls pathogenic parenting in his work (youtube, and his website), which is the type of parenting pathology and abuse that tends to happen when someone suffers from a personality disorder.

The natural order in healthy parenting is to validate how kids feel and help them learn to regulate their emotions. In a BPD parent, those roles are flipped. The BPD parent expects the kids to validate her emotions, which stunts their own development of self and can lead to different kinds of mental health challenges, some worse than others depending on their genetic predisposition to emotional sensitivity.

My son just turned 18. We left his n/BPD dad when he was 9.

He recently told me that he wished I protected him sooner.

[worriedStepmom]

One of the questions to think about is how much "revenge" your wife will want if you file for divorce.  Some BPD exes have made it a mission to alienate the kids from the non-disordered parent, or they file lots of false reports of abuse against the non-disordered parent.  Others may make it difficult because their entitlement is through the roof, but they aren't actively trying to destroy the other parent.

My H's ex is the "waif" type, and she had a huge fear of authority figures (like judges), so they had an amicable divorce when their daughter was 2 and agreed to 50/50 custody, with mom as primary.  Her behavior got worse as SD matured, and last year, when SD was 11, my H went back to court to get primary custody.  We're now going back to court for even less time for mom, because SD is having trouble coping.  The emotional abuse - and it IS abuse, regardless of the reasons given for it - is too much.  We're stuck in a feedback loop, that if SD doesn't devote her whole life to soothing mom, mom escalates the abuse, which makes SD not want to be around her mom.  We have apologized to SD for not protecting her sooner.

Like you, I believed that marriage should be forever.  My ex does not have a personality disorder, and he left. Someone told me not long after that "marriage is not a jail sentence."  It took me a while to fully process that, but it's true. 

Divorce is HARD.  So is living in an abusive marriage.

[Panda39]

I minimized abuse going on in my marriage, it starts small and minor but the more it happens the bigger and worse it becomes.

My partner was separated and going through the divorce process from his uBPDxw when I met him, I saw what was going felt things were wrong or off but I didn't have the vocabulary to define my feelings at the time. 

What I was seeing, in my marriage was verbal abuse, and controlling behaviors (and there was my own co-dependence ).

With my partner, there was emotional blackmail, parental alienation, threats, neglect, false allegations...

Someone here once shared the power and control wheel and it help me define and understand the things I was seeing.   Below is a copy (I'm sorry it's not gender neutral) you can find a larger copy by googling it.



While you are weighing your options whether to stay or go, document the behaviors you see particularly in relationship to your children.   In the short term it might help you get a clearer picture in terms of the effects her behaviors could be having on the kids and should you decide to leave you have a documented history of how her behaviors are impacting your kids over time for your attorney.

The other thing you might want to do is set up a couple of consultations with some lawyers and find out how things work in your area/state, what your rights are, and how they might approach your case.  Consultations will likely cost a fee but it is a good way to see where you stand.

I'm am not suggesting you leave or stay but the more knowledge you have the better choice you can make.  (And obviously - documentation and visits to attorneys should be kept private)

Panda39

[livednlearned]

I've seen a similar wheel for men but can't remember where I saw it.

Instead of male privilege, it has a pie wedge called legal abuse.

Legal abuse tends to be a particularly destructive weapon of choice for disordered women because there are laws set up to protect genuine victims of male to female abuse.