Divorcing BPD, NPD sociopath

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

First time poster and just found this site.  Starting mediation with soon to be (i hope at least) husband with borderline, narcissistic pd and a sociopath.  I had no idea someone could lie or blame like this.  I have been looking through all his texts and emails and amazed at what i have endured.  We have two kids who has never been involved with except a few hours a week- one has severe ADHD and the other has autism.  My kids mean everything to me.  he doesnt understand or see that his disregulation is a huge problem and his lack of involvement means he cant handle our special needs kids.  He told me he would give me 100% physical custody but wants shared legal custody and if he does that i should expect to not get as much money...because basically he is selling his kids. 

Has anyone had any luck divorcing quickly? He says he still wants to be with me and he comes off as so together and normal in person- he is a surgeon with a great educational pedigree- but thank god he wrote all these things to me- just two or three emails alone show his mental illness...and he actually has a girlfriend eager for his divorce so he can marry her and give her children...that works in my favor but just looking for support and realistic expectations.

[leftunsaid]

First time poster and just found this site.  Starting mediation with soon to be (i hope at least) husband with borderline, narcissistic pd and a sociopath.  I had no idea someone could lie or blame like this.  I have been looking through all his texts and emails and amazed at what i have endured.  We have two kids who has never been involved with except a few hours a week- one has severe ADHD and the other has autism.  My kids mean everything to me.  he doesnt understand or see that his disregulation is a huge problem and his lack of involvement means he cant handle our special needs kids.  He told me he would give me 100% physical custody but wants shared legal custody and if he does that i should expect to not get as much money...because basically he is selling his kids. 

Has anyone had any luck divorcing quickly? He says he still wants to be with me and he comes off as so together and normal in person- he is a surgeon with a great educational pedigree- but thank god he wrote all these things to me- just two or three emails alone show his mental illness...and he actually has a girlfriend eager for his divorce so he can marry her and give her children...that works in my favor but just looking for support and realistic expectations.

[MeandThee29]

You probably know that most divorces are settled out of court. If it goes to court, it is going to take even longer. In my area, the soonest divorce court date available right now is eight months out. If mediation fails, that may be where you are headed, and the calendar will stretch out. Mediation typically works best for non-disordered individuals who are willing to give-and-take.

If he's eager to move on, he may be more willing to deal, or not. Sometimes winning is so important that they don't care how long it takes.

Having a lawyer with a specialty in high conflict divorce may help.

[ForeverDad]

His 'advice' about divorce, custody and parenting means nothing.  Listen to your excellent proactive lawyer, you will only hear your spouse's entitled perceptions.  Actually, if you have special needs children, he may have to pay more support to ensure their medical or therapeutic needs are met.

You must read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder promptly, preferably before starting a divorce.  Is your lawyer familiar with Bill Eddy's artibles and books?  Chronologically he is a social worker, mediator, lawyer, author and lecturer (to legal professionals in and around family courts).
www.HighConflictInstitute.com

A few reminders here...

• Beware of giving him too much information (TMI).  For example, do not share this peer support site with him.  This is one of your 'safe places' such as with your counselor or family law attorney.
• During a divorce you will learn a variety of strategies that have proven practical and successful over the years.  Do not share your strategies with him, otherwise you risk him being enabled to sabotage you.  What you do share is required information about the children and whatever divorce details your experienced lawyer approves.
• Do not block his parenting but also don't be "overly fair" or "too fair".  What that means is that you know you're the one who has the history of more involved parenting.  So don't feel guilted to offer him, for example, equal time in a parenting schedule.  You already know it's not the best option for the kids.  Also, with the unpredictable and ever-changing perceptions he has, whatever you specify may not be enough for him, especially if he expects to 'win'.
• If he's distracted with another lover, fine, let him be distracted.  Your concern, your priority, now is you and the kids.

[leftunsaid]

Thank you for the advice...I just got the book.  I will begin reading now.  My attorneys all have dealt with borderline before and agree that avoiding litigation would be the best move.  my attorney also believes in standing up to him and has extensive mediation background and is known as fair but tough.  Who knows that as the ex is so fickle and moody and explosive that it changes moment to moment as you know.  He averages 6 hours a week in total with the kids (I have a log, and i have a stack of evidence against him that he knows nothing about nor does he even know could possibly exist).  him getting custody is not in my cards at all..he says he just wants to be able to visit from time to time which may very well be what he wants since in nearly a year of separation he has never had the kids to his apartment let alone had them sleep there.  In fact he has a 1 bedroom apartment with nothing for the kids.  And given the kids needs its hard for me to find lucrative work so I will do what I have to. 

Thanks for the advice.   Nice to have a safe space. 

[GaGrl]

It sounds as if there will be both spousal support and child support to be court ordered. States typically have guidelines on both of those items, based on length of marriage, income of both partners, cost of living, etc.

If he wants to "give" you 100% physical custody, that's fine. He is wrong if he thinks that has anything to do with trading off for less support $$$. Just wrong.

However, if he wants joint legal custody, that means he can disagree and block actions in the areas of education (which schools they attend, or IEDs for special needs), religion or religious education, medical treatment, therapy, etc. You can try to get status as Decision Maker in case of a disagreement, so that it you are at a standstill, you are still able to move forward.

[leftunsaid]

I wanted to try for that...my state has a joint legal custody but one parent can get ultimate...i will see if i can manage to do that but i really doubt his illness will allow him to concede control given his narcissism...he doesnt know his kids at all but somehow wants to make the most critical decisions.

[worriedStepmom]

I am so glad you are being proactive about documentation!

Document every time he sees the kids (or turns down an opportunity to see them).  Every time he asks about them, every response he makes to information about their doctor appointments, etc.

Retain all emails and texts that he sends you.  If it's legal in your state, you might also record any phone calls that the two of you have.

Good luck!

[MeandThee29]

Thank you for the advice...I just got the book.  I will begin reading now.  My attorneys all have dealt with borderline before and agree that avoiding litigation would be the best move.  my attorney also believes in standing up to him and has extensive mediation background and is known as fair but tough.

Some lawyers will tell their clients that they can ask for anything in the agreement that they want. Yes, ANYTHING. In some cases they will aggressively promise things that aren't reasonable for the other party and may even be against existing laws, hoping that the opposition has a weak lawyer that won't question that. Sometimes they push forward unreasonable things that their clients want because they want the opposing lawyer to say "no" instead of them. Unfortunately, this may embolden the disordered individual, making them feel that it is a loss if they don't get what they want, no matter what the implications. In that case, you do indeed need a fair but tough lawyer.

Other lawyers will encourage more careful thought before they encourage you to ask for something. They recognize that both parties ultimately will lose some, but they will fight hard on the critical issues for you and tell you what is reasonable to ask for and what is not. Recently I was ready to give in on several issues, and my lawyer cited case law that made it unreasonable to even ask me to do that. If we went to court, there were be no doubt that they would be dropped, but as long as we are trying to settle...you get the idea.

[livednlearned]

Don't be afraid of litigation if it comes to that. You've lived with someone who is pathological and high-conflict for many years and court is no more adversarial than that.

What sucks about litigation is the expense, but that's the cost of doing business with a disordered spouse, unfortunately.

Also, you may start with legal and over time it becomes obvious he can't share that responsibility. Judges are typically very risk averse. They will do the most cautious thing first, then watch to see how both parties behave when reasonable measures are in place.

You have to show that he impedes your ability to get good care for the kids.

My son was dx'd ADHD/ADD combined type and n/BPDx was so bound and determined to control the process that he spent dozens of emails disputing the dx while saying yes to meds. You are right that the illness means grasping for control. It's also true that the illness can be baffling when reasonable people are shining light on the behaviors.

With my ex, he gave away his time and rarely asked for it back at the same time he was fighting for more time in court.

Then, when he discovered I was dating, he started to come up with excuses for no overnights.

It's not a gamble I could take, but I'm pretty sure if I insisted on leaving our son with n/BPDx full-time I would've ended up with sole custody from the beginning.

[mart555]

Don't be afraid of litigation if it comes to that. You've lived with someone who is pathological and high-conflict for many years and court is no more adversarial than that.

What sucks about litigation is the expense, but that's the cost of doing business with a disordered spouse, unfortunately.

I used to fear court and wanted to settle out of court with mediation.  I realized within a few months that it would go nowhere... besides wasting money.  Now I have filed for divorce and I'm wasting that money through lawyers but at least it will eventually get somewhere..  Talk to a lawyer but it may not be a bad idea to file ASAP and then try to negotiate in the background but with a spouse that has full blown NPD in addition to BPD, it's hell.  They not only are explosive and blame everyone else, but they also feel entitled to everything. 

[MeandThee29]

Don't be afraid of litigation if it comes to that. You've lived with someone who is pathological and high-conflict for many years and court is no more adversarial than that.

What sucks about litigation is the expense, but that's the cost of doing business with a disordered spouse, unfortunately.

I was afraid of litigation. My lawyer assured me that every client of his who has to go to court survives. He told me to bring friends as that looks good as long as they behave (LOL). Here, court dates are so far in the future that your chances are actually very good of settling before then.  He advocates keeping the upper hand and has done that so far. We'll see.