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Author Topic: I don’t realize when I’m compromising and making excuses for her  (Read 187 times)
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« on: September 20, 2019, 02:33:19 AM »

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339031.0

The beach hut we stayed in on Koh Tao was our favourite bit!

It wasn't on the beach with all the crabs was it where you have to walk through a patch of forest to even get to the huts? If so, that's an amazing co-incidence!

Please could you expand a bit on how I'm bending to her definition of what is and isn't reasonable and fair? I think I have a blind spot where this is concerned and I don't even realise when I'm compromising or making excuses for her sometimes!

I'll have to think of something I can invite her to at the house...maybe harvest the fruit and veg from the garden and have a cook-off followed by a slap up roast dinner and a movie....sounds good to me anyway! She'll almost certainly refuse and say I could have driven down to her and had dinner and a movie at her place instead and I'm not respecting her decision to never set foot in the house again due to her ongoing "trauma".

One thing that has occurred to me as we've been discussing this is that she's probably going to be kicking off even more when I don't have work to do on the house. I feel like it's just barely tolerable in her mind for me to be away from her if I'm busy working on the house but all hell will break loose when I'm just there relaxing and enjoying some downtime because she's going to immediately start hammering me about how I could be relaxing with her at her place and that mean, nasty G1bbon is choosing to reject her company. Obviously this isn't reasonable but I can see it on the horizon.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 01:27:28 PM by Cat Familiar » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 02:42:47 AM »

On the topic of self care...I realise that I'm exhausted all the time and it's making me crabby. I've decided I will finish one major DIY task on Saturday and then give the rest of the weekend over to R&R.

I'd have probably handled this situation last night a lot better if I wasn't so darn shattered...

Excerpt
Her: Are you not coming to stay over tonight?

Me: No babe. I have so, so much to do on the house.

Her: Like what?

Me: Like all the things I discussed last night. Are you asking me to justify myself honey or are you offering to help?

Her: I'm asking what needs doing on the house

Me: Strip the remaining paper from the walls, then strip liner paper, then possibly re-line after filling in holes from screws and fixings.
Those are the jobs for this evening but plenty of other stuff to do. I feel like you're asking me to justify myself hun and I don't really like it

Her: I'm not asking you to justify yourself hun I'm asking what needs doing.

Me: OK

Her: I thought you'd done the walls and painted them. I also wouldnt have thought holes needed filling in since you've not made any. I already did the living room wall and sanded them down

Me:
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 02:58:51 AM »

Koh Toa looks like it's changed a bunch since we went there in 2000, but I remember we weren't far from a large beach bar which played movies every night on a big screen..... Chicken Rice and a chang beer for lunch, Pad Thai and quite a few chang's in the evening..... rinse repeat. I think it's around here on the island... https://goo.gl/maps/z7D4a8rJZSCg6jeN9

It's good that you're aware of potential conflicts and can read her likely reaction to things. What do you plan on doing in the event of this occurring? It doesn't look like she shows any willingness to change, is that okay with you, are you going to be content to have 'this' for an extended period of time?

I suppose where I see you bending to her definition of reasonable and fair is your willingness to do all the travelling and she's starting to expect this. It would be pretty reasonable for you to want to stick around at home on the weekend to sort stuff out and actually it wouldn't be that unreasonable to expect her to want to help you with that.  

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 04:19:57 AM »

Ahh, we were further down the island at Tao Thong. It was absolutely stunning and I'd go back in a heartbeat.

I see what you mean about the travel and I'm not happy with the situation as it stands. I do think she's being unreasonable not helping me with the work on the house but it's her choice and I can't exactly demand it of her. I can however choose to spend my time working on the house rather than visiting her as it takes twice as long on my own as it would with two. It's partly why this weekend I'm not coming down and am staying home to finish some jobs and relax. She's welcome to join me if she chooses.

When I suggest she comes to visit me her current "fig leaves" are that she has no job and therefore no money so how very dare I suggest it. And she's too traumatised by seeing all the woodlice to ever go back in the house.

I've offered to buy her a train ticket but she claims she would have no way of getting from the station back to her house on a return journey and I've explained that the woodlice are almost completely gone but she says even seeing one would be too much for her.

I don't want her to expect that I do all the travelling and it is simply impossible even if I were willing to - I don't have the money! I need to nip that expectation in the bud and it would be really helpful if she could see that it's not fair of her to hold such beliefs but I've no idea how to approach it. If she was a non I'd probably just say

"Honey, it's hard that we both live far apart right now. I know you miss me and I miss you too. I understand that financially, things are tough for you, money is also tight for me but it would be nice to see each other in the week. How about I come visit you twice a week and you come up to see me once a week?"

I think she'd just play the poor victim card in response though...she'd also be outraged that I was dismissing her trauma from the woodlice and expecting her to visit me and even stay overnight!

It's hard for me to not make excuses for her as I'm sure her abandonment issues are absolutely huge right now. She posted something on Facebook last night about not wanting the word, just to feel safe in her partner's world. I imagine her interrogation about the decorating was coming from feelings of abandonment and rejection but I really don't like feeling that I have to justify myself every time I decide not to come down to see her.
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 05:49:29 AM »

I'm going to put my unreasonable BPD hat on and get into character....

Excerpt
Honey, it's hard that we both live far apart right now.

How is this hard for you? This was your choice, stop trying to play the victim, you chose this, I didn't, this isn't what I wanted at all in the slightest and expressed aggressively multiple times how I didn't want this at all and here you are pretending to be a victim..... you're full of  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post).

Excerpt
I know you miss me and I miss you too.

If you missed me as much as I missed you you would come and stay with me every night and more to the point you would never have moved out in the first place. If you loved me you'd move heaven and earth, beg borrow and steal to be with me (by my definition I should also do that, get a job, learn to drive etc etc but I can't because of some reason I haven't yet thought of but it's really really really really good and valid and will be such a good reason it will indemnify me from needing to act in the same way I expect other people to for the rest of my life). You're fake and your words are meaningless gibberish to placate me.... you're full of  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)

 
Excerpt
I understand that financially, things are tough for you, money is also tight for me


WTF, you have a job, you're saving money on your commute since you're not doing that 5x a week. It's allllllllll about you you you. You have NO idea at all how tough things are for me..... <see reason I haven't yet come up with which indemnifies me of responsibility to seek meaningful employment>

Excerpt
it would be nice to see each other in the week.

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!! NICE!!!!!!!!!!??????????? WTF. It's killing me being away from you, this isn't about WANT, this about NEED!!!!!! You are litterally ripping my heart and soul out and smashing it into a million pieces and you think it would be NICE to see me more than a couple of times a week??!!!!!

Excerpt
How about I come visit you twice a week and you come up to see me once a week?

You're not listening to me at all <see reason above that I haven't yet thought of>.

Back to being Enabler  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Some time back we discussed deciding what constitutes a 'relationship' that is workable for you. I think we all appreciate that it's going to take some effort to get to that with your GF (as it will with all of our partners), and continued effort to sustain that. You seem willing to put that effort in despite a wall of uncooperative behaviour from your GF. What 'things' are the aims for the relationship, if you had to draw a picture of the zone that the tolerable relationship would look like, what would be in it? I believe it imperative that we ALWAYS point towards this zone. Has your GF made any break up threats recently and what would be your stance if she did?

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 07:10:27 AM »


Her: Are you not coming to stay over tonight?

Me: No babe. I have so, so much to do on the house.  (justification...don't get into it)

Instead:  Sadly no.  Looking forward to connecting with you later.

Her: Like what? (See how this question does not even apply now)

Me: Like all the things I discussed last night. Are you asking me to justify myself honey or are you offering to help? (A bit confrontational.  Instead of asking to "justify"...try this.  Hey..it would me a lot to me if you could stop by for a while.)



Her: I'm asking what needs doing on the house

Me: Strip the remaining paper from the walls, then strip liner paper, then possibly re-line after filling in holes from screws and fixings.
Those are the jobs for this evening but plenty of other stuff to do. I feel like you're asking me to justify myself hun and I don't really like it

Her: I'm not asking you to justify yourself hun I'm asking what needs doing.

Me: OK

Her: I thought you'd done the walls and painted them. I also wouldnt have thought holes needed filling in since you've not made any. I already did the living room wall and sanded them down


(See how in your version the debate is all about what needs to be done and who is right or who has the correct POV on a house project.)

It would be much better if she asks what you are doing to say..

"Need to focus on some self care.  I have some important issues coming up I want to be my best for "(yes...this is a bit of JADE...but I'm laying a trap)

When she asks "like what".

"I'm looking forward to coming together to share with you in person.  Way to personal to discuss via text."

What do you think?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2019, 08:29:09 AM »


Back to being Enabler  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Some time back we discussed deciding what constitutes a 'relationship' that is workable for you. I think we all appreciate that it's going to take some effort to get to that with your GF (as it will with all of our partners), and continued effort to sustain that. You seem willing to put that effort in despite a wall of uncooperative behaviour from your GF. What 'things' are the aims for the relationship, if you had to draw a picture of the zone that the tolerable relationship would look like, what would be in it? I believe it imperative that we ALWAYS point towards this zone. Has your GF made any break up threats recently and what would be your stance if she did?

Enabler

Oh my goodness, your depiction is scarily accurate haha! Saying that, there are times that she would react completely reasonably too but they are rare. I completely agree with what you and FF have observed, that I'm giving her too much justification and providing too many opportunities to start picking fights.

"No honey, unfortunately I'm not down tonight, I'll be there on Sunday and I'm really looking forward to seeing you"

Gives her far less opportunity to pick fights.

I was certainly in a bad mood last night, exhausted and sick to death of her trying to guilt trip me into coming to see her.

Her behaviour right now reminds me of when I was about 7 years old and I was on holiday with my family. I'd gotten a new toy and wanted to stay in the caravan and play with it but we were going to the beach and I wasn't allowed to take it because of the sand.

I begged not to go and had a tantrum. When we got there I refused to get out of the car. My parents shrugged and went onto the beach (keeping the car in their sight). I sat in that car fuming. I could see that they were having a good time without me. It got hotter and hotter and was really thirsty. After about 2 hours I wound down the window and yelled "I'm thirsty" at my parents. They looked over and held up a bottle of soda as a clear invitation to come and have a drink but nope, I've always been damned stubborn. I stayed in the car. Lunchtime came and I could see they were having a picnic. My resolve was beginning to crumble. I stayed in the car around 4 hours according to my parents. Eventually I flounced over to them, sat down and started eating and had a huge glass of cola. After about 30 minutes I forgot all about why I was angry in the first place and had a great afternoon digging trenches on the beach with my dad.

Right now she's sat in the car. I'm over here on the beach. I need to just enjoy myself, let her come in her own time, show her she's welcome to join me for picnics and soda and perhaps she'll come over and join in on the fun...

Does that sound about right to you guys? It's a shame that in our situation there's a flying monkey in the car with her!

My zone of "relationship  acceptability" would be that we spend quality time together but it's not expected that 100% of my free time is dedicated to her. I spend time doing my own thing like little DIY projects, relaxing with a book, studying, helping my dad with his rental property (his previous tenant has absolutely trashed the place) without having a barrage of guilt trips, nagging and interrogation. I'd like us to resume relationship counselling once we live close together and for her to pursue her own hobbies and interests too so that she's got other things on her mind.

She's not broken up with me. She has said that she won't be in a relationship with someone who keeps secrets from her which I've been discussing in my other thread. My response to her has been to say "this is where I stand, by all means do what you think is right, however, don't forget that we agreed that the next breakup is final, no backsies"

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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2019, 08:37:46 AM »

You've come a long way. Keep going. Keep thinking and keep improving. I agree with your analogy.

Remember, the flying monkey invariably becomes the next perpetrator. She'll be blamed for keeping her in the hot car!

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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2019, 08:54:00 AM »


For the secrets thing.  Take that head on.

Privacy and secrets are different things.  After all..why would you share something you are still "thinking through".

"Babe..I'm still considering my thoughts and feelings.  Thanks for letting me know you are ready to listen.  I'll reach out when I'm ready."

Said another way...boundaries.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2019, 03:50:28 PM »

Well, I think discussing things with her is off the table for now as she hasn't messaged me all day.

I said goodnight last night and good morning this morning. Sent her a brief message about the weather being nice and then this evening said

"I see that you're not speaking to me. I'll leave you in peace. I'm here if you'd like to talk"

When she saw that message she simply sent

"F U"

Looks like I'll be getting plenty of time to myself this weekend!
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2019, 04:59:56 PM »

I said goodnight last night and good morning this morning. Sent her a brief message about the weather being nice and then this evening said

"I see that you're not speaking to me. I'll leave you in peace. I'm here if you'd like to talk"

I’m not surprised that she reacted hostility to your message. The brief message about the weather was fine, but your second message was likely to be triggering to a pwBPD.

To a non, it might even be triggering. Why? You are making presumptions about her and her emotional state.
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2019, 07:22:22 PM »

I'm surprised you see it that way, I was trying to keep the option of communication open as she's ignored me for over 24 hours. I wasn't making an assumption about her emotional state, just observing she wasn't speaking to me...which is extremely unusual and comes directly after a disagreement... leaving the silence festering in a tit for tat seems unproductive...asking her if something is the matter would be to invite raging...I'm curious how others would have approached the situation as my approach was clearly fruitless.
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2019, 07:39:12 PM »


The way you said it made it seem "deliberate".  That she is choosing not to speak to you.

What if she flushed her phone and "couldn't" speak to you?

See the difference.

I think most nons would see that as a "poke", which means that most pwBPD would see it on a much "higher" level of provocation.

There is a cultural thing here too.  I think "doing" a relationship by messaging/email is horrid.  I get it most young people think differently. 

You miss so much nuance and things like what we are discussing right now happen all the time.

More in person and more on the phone...less messages.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2019, 07:50:46 PM »

I'd rather speak on the phone or face to face too. I agree that it's really easy to misread and misconstrue over message.

Sadly, my partner refuses to speak over the phone, she hates it. I know her phone was fine and working because it showed that she'd read my earlier messages and that she was "active".

I see what you're saying about the message. I mean she *is clearly* angry and ignoring me due to the previous night but I suppose I didn't give her an "out".

In previous similar situations I'd tend to ask "hey, any chance you're not speaking to me honey? Hope I'm wrong" but I seem to be speaking in rather more blunt and direct terms of late. It's probably my exasperation and exhaustion creeping in, I am angry at her and I think she's being unreasonable and I just don't have the patience any more
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 08:35:18 PM »



Sadly, my partner refuses to speak over the phone, she hates it. 

And...you agreed to not do this why?

Let her know messaging is no longer working for you.  You will message to coordinate a phone call or logistical issues for in person meetings, but you will no longer "conduct" the relationship via message.

Reference this exchange as  "further proof" that messaging is damaging the relationship.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 09:24:10 PM »

I agreed because she has bad anxiety about phone calls. When we do talk on the phone she can't relax, is short tempered and can't wait to end the call.

We do have an agreement that if texting is going badly or something important crops up that one of us would rather speak about face to face then we can defer the discussion, no arguement we both have total veto power.

That system has been working well I think so far and has sometimes gotten both of us out of possible misunderstandings.

I'm not sure how much the format of the message is to blame in this instance, I've a feeling however the message was delivered it would have been badly received due to its content.

I think it's probably best I avoid speaking to her about anything of import until I've caught up on my sleep. I've just been so.busy this week.

On the plus side, tonight I drained and took off a radiator and put up lining paper which are both new skills for me. On the downside, it's 3am and I've got a decorator in at 9am argh!
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2019, 08:21:15 AM »

I agreed because she has bad anxiety about phone calls.

It appears you now have bad anxiety over texting since she cursed you out via text rather than clarifying your intent.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

For the future of your relationship you can offer to work on your anxiety for texting with a professional and she can work on anxiety for phone calls.

Of course you are making no demands....just offering a way forward now that you are "logistical only" on text.



 

We do have an agreement that if texting is going badly or something important crops up that one of us would rather speak about face to face then we can defer the discussion, no arguement we both have total veto power.

Which you are now exercising your veto power because of her abrogation of the agreement.


That system has been working well I think so far and has sometimes gotten both of us out of possible misunderstandings.

"FU" is part of working out well?  

I'm not sure how much the format of the message is to blame in this instance, I've a feeling however the message was delivered it would have been badly received due to its content.

I don't.

Seriously...I think if she could have heard your voice or seen the totality of you she could have picked up that you were not trying to flame her.  Most likely you had a lot on your mind and didn't think things through.

Of course..she could always clarify prior to cursing you out.  (good idea for future agreement)

I think it's probably best I avoid speaking to her about anything of import until I've caught up on my sleep. I've just been so.busy this week.

On the plus side, tonight I drained and took off a radiator and put up lining paper which are both new skills for me. On the downside, it's 3am and I've got a decorator in at 9am argh!

Hey..if you are moving out of the house soon, why are you continuing to fix it up?  Will landlord be compensating you.

Sleep is valuable.  Worth loosing some if fixing up your home, yet if you are fixing it up for some unknown future person...well..that's likely not a valuable use of your time.

Best,

FF
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