SD's mom would rather play victim than parent

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338787.0
H already filed and is just waiting for a change of venue motion to be processed before a temporary orders hearing is scheduled.

Last year, when H got primary custody, his ex decided the night before the temporary orders hearing that she wasn't going to appear, and she gave him a letter to give to the judge that said she'd do whatever H wanted.  She signed the final paperwork without a fuss and has spent the last year claiming to be the victim - that we stole her child.

She's already settled on her reasons for not appearing this time -a) we are well-off and she is not, so there is no possible way she could win and b) a custody battle would be bad for SD.  She is still workshopping a potential third excuse - we're married so SD has an extra mom (me).  So I don't think she will show up, but I also don't know if she will sign this time, if it means supervised visitation or no overnights.  That's a serious hit to her vision of herself as a parent.

She's doing her very best to convince H to say that SD shouldn't go with mom for tonight's scheduled visitation.  I think we're in a phase now where she'd rather play the victim (those mean people won't let me see my kid) than play the role of good mother (which makes her insist on seeing SD more often).  She likes the victim role best.

[worriedStepmom]

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338787.0
H already filed and is just waiting for a change of venue motion to be processed before a temporary orders hearing is scheduled.

Last year, when H got primary custody, his ex decided the night before the temporary orders hearing that she wasn't going to appear, and she gave him a letter to give to the judge that said she'd do whatever H wanted.  She signed the final paperwork without a fuss and has spent the last year claiming to be the victim - that we stole her child.

She's already settled on her reasons for not appearing this time -a) we are well-off and she is not, so there is no possible way she could win and b) a custody battle would be bad for SD.  She is still workshopping a potential third excuse - we're married so SD has an extra mom (me).  So I don't think she will show up, but I also don't know if she will sign this time, if it means supervised visitation or no overnights.  That's a serious hit to her vision of herself as a parent.

She's doing her very best to convince H to say that SD shouldn't go with mom for tonight's scheduled visitation.  I think we're in a phase now where she'd rather play the victim (those mean people won't let me see my kid) than play the role of good mother (which makes her insist on seeing SD more often).  She likes the victim role best.

[livednlearned]

I wonder if 12 is a particularly hard age for the parent with a PD.

My son had a hard time keeping up a facade that he believed his dad.

S18 seemed to see through some of the alienation tactics and I think the sheer effort to pretend got to be too much.

n/BPDx started to self-sabotage so much at that time, it made me think he was trying to create enough chaos so he could exit a victim, losing custody and blaming me, even though his fingerprints were all over the place.

[worriedStepmom]

That's really interesting, lnl, that it seemed to get a lot worse for y'all at that age, too.

SD is no longer willing to pretend she believes her mom.  I think her breaking point was Easter, when mom yelled at her for telling us that mom's sexting was showing up on SD's phone.  Now SD is just done.  She mostly stays silent, but she's starting to be more vocal in saying "STOP".  Her mom has noticed that SD is refusing to provide soothing, and as a result is targeting SD more. 

After your ex lost custody, did he see your son at all?  Did everything calm down?

[livednlearned]

After your ex lost custody, did he see your son at all?  Did everything calm down?

He didn't. There were some texts and attempts to email for a few years but it was always about n/BPDx and S18 got fed up.

Things did quiet down, no question. S18 is definitely impacted by his dad's behaviors, but that's different than the constant management of n/BPDx's shenanigans.

S18's T said that he seems to accept that this relationship with n/BPDx cannot be fixed, and that's a good thing. It means S18 will not spend years or decades trying to get his dad to be his dad.

I did that with my dad and getting to that final dead end is pretty brutal. I see why the T believes S18 is better off accepting his dad will never be a dad.

I wonder if that's why SD12 wants unsupervised visitation -- she is holding out hope that mom can still be her mom. As she goes through her teens, she may see more clearly that this is not a person who can behave like a mom consistently.

[worriedStepmom]

I wonder if that's why SD12 wants unsupervised visitation -- she is holding out hope that mom can still be her mom. As she goes through her teens, she may see more clearly that this is not a person who can behave like a mom consistently.

Yes.  She desperately wants her old mom back - the mom from 4 or 5 years ago who was pretty wacky but still mostly capable of parenting. SD says when she looks at her mom now, she doesn't see "mom" at all.

Her mom didn't show up to pick her up yesterday.  When we wouldn't respond to her attempts to get us to say she couldn't have SD this weekend, she decided that she wouldn't pick SD up again until H presented her with custody paperwork to sign.  She said she'll sign anything short of termination of parental rights.  She stated that she will not step foot in a courtroom.  [Which makes me wonder what is going to happen to the enforcement she filed - it's HER court action that upset her so much this week.]

I truly believe she doesn't want to parent anymore.

H responded to her with the two options he's considering - supervised visitation or a reduced schedule with no overnights.   I anticipate a bad reaction.

[livednlearned]

I truly believe she doesn't want to parent anymore.

I felt that way about n/BPDx. My guess is that he felt S18 slipping away from him (e.g. becoming his own person) and it was excruciating to experience even a hint of that abandonment.

I don't think he thought to himself, "I don't want to parent anymore." I think he didn't want to be abandoned or rejected without a narrative in which he was the victim (no accountability).

Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. 

H responded to her with the two options he's considering - supervised visitation or a reduced schedule with no overnights.   I anticipate a bad reaction.

I hope it's not too bad, whatever happens.

[worriedStepmom]

Well.

mom just posted that she likes the idea of supervised visitation, and that it could be helpful to have a neutral person watch their interactions.

I just...

Huh.

[mart555]

Yes.  She desperately wants her old mom back - the mom from 4 or 5 years ago who was pretty wacky but still mostly capable of parenting. SD says when she looks at her mom now, she doesn't see "mom" at all.

That stuff is always difficult to hear.  My 10yo son used to say that "he feels like his mom will never be the same again" and last week he said that "he had lost his mom"..   yet I know that mom will be back soon enough and seem stable, only to go out of whack once again a few weeks later.  Really difficult on kids.

[livednlearned]

mom just posted that she likes the idea of supervised visitation, and that it could be helpful to have a neutral person watch their interactions.

To see what a great mom she is?

[worriedStepmom]

To see what a great mom she is?

That was my first response too!

She's posted three messages over the last 12 hours that all say basically - she didn't mean to emotionally abuse SD, she doesn't want to emotionally abuse SD, and if a neutral person is there maybe they can help her see when she crosses the line so she can do better.

She sounds remarkably stable and introspective (and not the least bit waify) at the moment.

I validated her - I do believe that she didn't hurt SD on purpose, and I do believe that she wants to do better.  I also have faith that she can be better and build that good relationship that she and SD both want.

The bigger problem is whether her illness allows her to do it.  I'm not getting my hopes up.  At least this means SD will be protected while her mom tries.

[GaGrl]

One thing we hear pretty consistently about BPD mom's is that do better with mothering younger children but then have trouble as the children begin to become individuals with wants and opinions of their own. This certainly has been the case with my DH's ex -- she was good with the kids up to about ages 6-7. She has had our 3-year old granddaughter for three weeks this summer and has enjoyed it while providing GD3 with some structure that she doesn't get from her mom.

Was your EX's mom better with her in the early years? Is she really confused about having a pre-teen? I'm wondering what resources are available to help her -- if she really wants it. Perhaps an agency that supervises and supports?

[worriedStepmom]

I'm not sure if she really did better, or if we just didn't realize what was happening because SD wouldn't talk about it. 

The alienation attempts started immediately after H proposed (SD was 4) - against me and him.

The year SD turned 7 was pretty awful and included an involuntary commitment for mom after a health crisis. In hindsight, we should have tried for primary custody that year.  There were also other things going on in mom's life around then that could have triggered the downward spiral.

We started getting worried when SD was about 9.5; just after that, they moved in with SD's grandparents.  (We hoped their influence would make things better.  Nope.)   By that point, mom had alternating periods of depression where she wouldn't get out of bed at all.  And then last year H filed for custody because mom fell off the deep end.

L has briefly mentioned some programs before, so H will reach out to her this week for more information.  SD's mom used to be a CPS caseworker, so she is very familiar with the types of resources that are available - but that's only useful if she can recognize which ones might fit her situation, and I don't think she's there yet. 

[mart555]

SD's mom used to be a CPS caseworker, so she is very familiar with the types of resources that are available - but that's only useful if she can recognize which ones might fit her situation, and I don't think she's there yet. 

Seems to me like she wants to use the system to her advantage since she knows it well...

[worriedStepmom]

Seems to me like she wants to use the system to her advantage since she knows it well...

'
I thought so too, except she wants us to do all the work of picking the supervisor and telling her the rules.

She has surprised me a lot the last few days.  H and I are both waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[livednlearned]

I wonder if someone has told her she's at risk of losing everything if she doesn't agree to this?

My ex went through a bit of an eerie period after his psychotic episode where he agreed to everything our lawyers proposed. He wanted to avoid a restraining order and losing custody so he became super reasonable and agreeable.

[mart555]

I wonder if someone has told her she's at risk of losing everything if she doesn't agree to this?

My ex went through a bit of an eerie period after his psychotic episode where he agreed to everything our lawyers proposed. He wanted to avoid a restraining order and losing custody so he became super reasonable and agreeable.

Once again this is exactly in line with what I am going through at this point.  While I don't know if she will agree to everything proposed, she wrote to the kids (they haven't seen the message) that she had a difficult day due to "a difficult visit with her lawyer" and for the last month her occasional messages to the kids were really nice.  Maybe she has come to realization that she won't get all she wants.  Maybe she has finally reached the bottom of the barrel?

But I'm not keeping my hopes up, I've seen that cycle a few times... 

[ForeverDad]

mom just posted that she likes the idea of supervised visitation, and that it could be helpful to have a neutral person watch their interactions.

As if your H (and you and therapists too) haven't provided helpful observations and input during the prior years.   BPD often makes the person unable or unwilling to get past the immense emotional baggage of the past relationship and actually listen.

[worriedStepmom]

As if your H (and you and therapists too) haven't provided helpful observations and input during the prior years.   BPD often makes the person unable or unwilling to get past the immense emotional baggage of the past relationship and actually listen.

uBPDmom is now asking for family therapy with SD so that mom's therapist can understand the issues.   This is an exact repeat of last summer, when H first filed for custody.

Our response was along the lines of "Nope. It isn't SD's job to help you identify your issues.  You can show your therapist this PDF of all the texts that you sent SD in June."   Which launched 2 days of waifing.   

She's still committed to getting supervised visitation, and she isn't really pushing for us to make this happen fast.  I'm starting to believe her current comfort level in parenting is twice-weekly phone calls.

[mart555]

Definitely don't drag SD in this.  She's got enough to deal with!