If anyone wants/needs background on the long, long back story to what I'm about to talk about, it's here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338446.0

So our period of NC (with my parents) was disrupted yesterday. Well really the day before. I guess it really started when my mom texted me to let me know my dad was having his biopsy done that day for potential prostate cancer (without getting into details, I've been frustrated with them for dragging their feet and finding excuses for not doing this). This happened 15 minutes before a big presentation I had to give to high management that I had been dreading for over a month. My wife was frustrated on my behalf that she chose to drop it on me the day of. Anyway, I temporarily broke NC to respond, and told her I was praying. Later that night, she sent my wife a single text saying that if my wife's intent was to break her, that she succeeded, and she is broken. Keep in mind, my wife took herself out of the conversation at day 1 of this, and didn't say anything out of line before then as far as I can tell. And has endured all the verbal abuse and public "shaming" on FaceBook (i.e., posting a passive aggressive meme and then tagging us in it with a snide comment) simply with silence and the act of de-friending my mom on Facebook.

The next one came yesterday. My brother (closest thing I have to an ally, though if it came to it he'd side with my mom) texted me to let me know they found out their unborn baby is a girl, only the second girl of all the grandchildren. It was great news and I told him as such (like I said, not NC with him). I'm guessing that was the catalyst for what followed.

So after my wife and I both had emotionally and mentally exhausting days, last night 3 things happened in the span of 15 minutes:

1) My sister asked if she could come stay tonight ahead of a Dr appt in town (should be stated she's the GC, anything we say to her is the same as saying to my mom, and we don't trust her to not talk about my mom to our kids or even blatantly FaceTiming our kids with my mom in disrespect/bypass to our NC).

2) My dad emailed me on my WORK email asking if "I need to talk". I have no idea what to make of that or why he would chose to use my work email. For the record, he's said two thing during all this to my wife and I, and both were appalling. To the extent that even our counselor was getting riled up on our behalf while trying to talk through it, and finally said he's never seen anything like it.

3) My mom texted my wife and I a long message, the first contact in the context of our conflict that didn't include or precede the insinuation that my wive is the devil incarnate (the exact words were more along the lines of "devilish", "alien Yankee logic", etc.). Anyway it was a long message which appeared to be an attempt at an olive branch, I'm guessing spurred by my brother's news. Most of the text contained the backstory to her side. Like her perception that we don't care about their medical issues, or the fact that we can travel to other places but rarely go to see them, etc. I guess all the things that had her upset with us.

She did say the words "I'm sorry in there". But really the most acknowledgment of her raging and abuse was "Things were said all around" (for the record, the reality was much more lopsided). She said she lost control because she had only been that angry one other time in her life (if I had a nickel for every time I heard that from her).

Anyway, most of the text was about what had her upset, and any acknowledgment of her part was minimal. Her line is life is too short and our family is about to get another baby girl so we don't need to be doing this.

I'm almost wishing she had said nothing at all because now I'm back in crisis. My wife's opinion is it's all BS, and she still wants nothing to do with her ever again. I actually started a response with the intent of acknowledging the change in tone and saying I would respond more thoroughly in my own time, but I stopped when my wife was horrified I was going to respond at all.

So here I am now... Once again conflicted and in turmoil. Angry at what they did. Angry/confused at the sudden about-face with minimal acknowledgment of the awful things said. Scared/conflicted at what to do next (even if that's nothing). Worried at what message to send if any. Sad that this is happening both during a scary time with my parents' health and a happy time with my brother's growing family.

Looks like today is another day my wife and I will go through as emotional zombies, for our own reasons.

Not really changed my mind. So I guess overwhelmed. Though things changed even after I posted so I didn't have a whole lot of time to think about it.

I had forgot to mention that I ended up telling my sister tonight wasn't a good time. I tried to be as polite as I could. The procedure she's having doesn't mesh well with stress, and although I haven't technically been NC with her, I just didn't think her staying was a good idea under the circumstances.

Well apparently she got really hurt by that, and next thing I know my brother finally jumps in the mix to tell me how ridiculous it is for my sister's big brother to tell her she's unwelcome in our home (NOT what I said). Well I responded, and we had a few back and forths that lead to an attempt at a phone call. It didn't go well. He reminded me how he has good common sense and sees things for what they are, and basically told me we need to move on from this. That we need to let our daughter stay with my parents so they can spoil her. Telling me how they are great grandparents. How they love us and just want to see the kids. This is my dad who took vacation to stain the deck at his cabin, but was absent at my son's birthday and my daughter's ballet recital, but that meant nothing to my brother. Basically talking to a brick wall on all our issues, increasingly giving the impression he thought we were crazy. Made it clear that we shouldn't be going to counseling. It didn't help that I got increasingly upset so I'm sure I didn't help matters. He finally hung up on me mid-story, and texted a final text calling me a snowflake. So, no ally there!

Next up was my mom. Guess it was fair game on me at that point. She texted "I guess were not a family anymore?", followed by "What about the kids?" Then another long text starting by addressing me by my full name and starting talking about this is not a family who turns their backs, that she can't believe this is over a late anniversary wish, that this is unnatural, to please respond so she knows my thought process. Said that she talked to counselor friends of her own that can't believe our counselor hasn't suggested she come in.

It's killing me. Every fiber in me wants to respond.  I can't believe or handle the fact that she STILL thinks this is about the anniversary. She's even trying to contact a close friend, who ironically has been helping us through this. Everyone close to this is advising me not to respond, that nothing good comes of it. My wife is a mess (so am I really).

So, to answer the question... guilty, angry, crushed, and overwhelmed!

First of all, wow, this is very familiar. When I I unfriended my mom on Facebook (after years of boundary crossing), she did this with such ferocity, I had to block her.

Second, it sounds like all this is happening very quickly. One thing I’ve noticed is that people with personality disorders need to move at far too fast a speed. If you don’t respond to their freak out RIGHT AWAY, they assume you hate them and send and angry or conciliatory follow up.

I’ve been going through this with my mom over the past few weeks (I’ve posted about it) and what I realized is that I don’t need to respond according to her timeline. I can take my time, talk it through with my counsellor, get grounded. Then if and when I’m ready, I’ll respond. Because that’s how respectful, loving, meaningful communication happens.

So no need to accept or respond to that olive branch right away. Maybe take a moment and examine that reactivity. Give yourself time to think and ground yourself. Find out what it means for you.

And I hope you and your wife are well in the long run.

I am about to crash but wanted to just say how sorry I am that you and your wife are dealing with this level of functionality and manipulation. It must feel terrible to be ganged up on so completely.

I'm also guessing a large part of your wife's stress is seeing you in such emotional pain.

It is difficult getting healthy. You are upsetting decades of avoidance and cover-up. Stay strong!

Thank you, I really appreciate that.


The dry erase board method seems pretty accurate, and its frustrating and infuriating. It's also one of the reasons we like to keep arguments to text if possible (at least before giving up). That way things can't be denied. At least in theory. Even with the text there plain as day, they still deny or minimize.


I'm definitely upsetting the equilibrium, and they aren't happy. While my NC is likely being perceived as me rejecting them first, I got proof of what you said today. My wife is still looking at my FaceBook account every day to see what my mom is up to (I'm probably going to end up deleting my account because my anxiety goes through the roof when she does). Today's fun was my mom posted a meme about moms needing their sons. She tagged my brother and not me. I'm not angry, and I don't blame her given the circumstances, but it hurts, and impacts one of the many emotional layers making me feel like I'm going to either explode or implode.


Thanks, me too (though I know they think I don't care).


The whole NC vs LC concept has been nagging at me. I think if I could go NC and endure the guilt, shame, and pain that will consume me, we might be better in the long run. As it is my wife says she's done with them period, so my choices are limited at this point anyway! I wish LC would work in my case. It breaks my heart that there is so much going on with my extended family from which NC would exclude me. Not to mention my kids lose their cousins. I hate this collateral damage caused by me simply taking a stand against emotional/verbal abuse.


Not sure if I should be saying this since I've left more than enough breadcrumbs to identify myself to someone who knows me, but my mom was, by her mom. I didn't find out until a few years ago.

I've been told my multiple people to ignore the phone (I do keep it on DND all the time now) and go enjoy ourselves this weekend. I want to but I know I'm going to sabotage it. Between the guilt and frustration and everything else, I'm going to be fighting the voice in my head all weekend telling me I don't deserve to be happy even for a moment. Yes I know that's a crazy thought. The voice is sneaky. For instance, we have friends coming to visit; the voice is telling me I'm being a hypocrite for letting them come the night after the night I told my sister it wasn't a good time (I know it's not a good comparison given my sister's position, but still).

And yet crap like this seems to hit hardest during those times I actually forget about problems for a minute and become genuinely happy. Then I get knocked back in my place. I'm trying prayer, mindfulness, etc., and trying to remind myself to not be in a victim mindset.

Thanks Notwendy, it really is hard to change those patterns. Especially when they are so engrained in an enmeshed family. Heck, during the disaster of a conversation with my brother I even made the mistake of alluding to the fact that I'm tired of being controlled by guilt and the "responsibility" of my mom's health and emotions (I used different words). From his reaction I'm surprised he didn't call the mental institution for me right then and there.

Just to check in on what's going on with us, we're struggling pretty bad today. It was mostly a good weekend, a couple, very good friends of ours, came up with their kid to stay the weekend. The husband was around when my wife and I met and he's a great mutual friend, and his wife and mine hit it off great when he later got married. Anyway it was a welcome distraction, even did an escape room for the first time (ironically, we were escaping an asylum). Best hour I've had in a long time.

Unfortunately I found out more things over the weekend. Bear with me on the connections here, but apparently a year or so back my mom told the mother of a woman in our circle of mutual friends (though this woman was more of a strained acquaintance than friend) about our last 2 big blowups with my family, and pretty much pegged it on my wife. Keep in mind it's a small town, but this lady and my mom have never been friends. Well it made it to our "friend", who told it to another friend in the circle, who eventually told our friend who came to see us this weekend. She even admitted that had she not known our side of the story, she would have sided with my mom.

So basically I'm finding out my mom was/is telling people in the periphery of our friends and potentially slandering us. And in this case we went a year and a half on good terms and being none the wiser. I get telling her own friends, or even acquaintances who don't know us. But inserting this crap into my social circles? I know this has been alluded to in one of my previous threads, but I'm shuddering to think of how muddy my name is now in my hometown. And what's so messed up is she's the perfect and innocent victim here, and somehow even convinces ME of that at times. Speaking of the victim stance, I'm told she's meme'ing it pretty hard on FaceBook too.

So once our friends left yesterday and the distraction was gone, it all came back and knocked me hard. It eventually wore off on my wife and we're both just out of it and going through the motions today as best we can.

I just don't get it. And it hurts and torments me so bad that my family has the stance that I need to come to my senses and stop this nonsense. When all I want to do is step away for some peace. I was thinking yesterday that I would take physical abuse over this any day. Bruises heal, and others can see them and help combat the story of me being the horrible one. And I'd have a reminder in the mirror so I wouldn't have to question myself. I know this might be a whiney and probably inconsiderate thing for me to say, and if so I apologize.

I just need it to stop. Every time I think I've progressed far enough to handle the next phase, I get hit with something else. Even blocking them on my phone wouldn't have saved me this weekend.

And the more I think of it, I've never noticed until recently just how much my mom befriends or tries to befriend our own friends. Even our friends from this weekend, who aren't from my hometown but live there now, get invited to family activities. And my mom makes a point to friend ours on FaceBook. She's pretty chummy with an old friend who we don't talk to anymore, and they comment/like each other's stuff on FB like they're longtime friends.

My wife said she feels like she's in a conspiracy theory. Meanwhile I'm going through all the emotions of anger at my family, guilt for all the things I mentioned in earlier posts, confusion on what exactly I'm supposed to do, fear of what's going to happen next, sadness/mourning for the broken relationships. I just have no idea what to even expect for the future. I don't know how to come back from this stuff and have even a superficial relationship with my family, or if I'm even supposed to want to. Wait, I know what to do, just "come to my senses" as my dad said.

A couple weeks ago I told my wife I felt like I was running on fumes; I feel like I've been driven even beyond that at this point. I don't know how to process the extreme polarization here... on one hand people in our lives in our current city being appalled at what's happening (not to mention our counselor's reaction), and on the other hand my family beating me over the head with the idea that we're overreacting, they are a good loving family, and we need to stop this. It's all just so messed up, and if I wasn't crazy when this started, I might be before the end. Even when I try to pray now, I just sit numbly, not even sure what to say or ask anymore.

That was a long post that I know doesn't really do this situation justice. It's hard to be succinct and efficient with words when the words are doubling as an attempt at catharsis.

Hi proud dad.   

I can't improve on pursuingJoy's response above so I am just going to say read it over and over again.  She nailed it. 

Let's talk about it.

Hi Proud dad,

The thing about setting boundaries is things can get worse before they get better...as you are experiencing now.  I hear all the chaos and the FOG that is coming from every direction that your mom can make happen.  She is involving her "flying monkeys" from Wizard of Oz fame.  She is using everyone...dad, siblings, extended family, friends, acquaintances and even strangers on Facebook.

It's tough to ride this out, but the people that really know and really care for you will believe you and support you.  Those people in my opinion are the keepers.  I'm glad you let your friends stay at your house I think you made the right choice there rather than having your sister over with all the strings that come attached to her.  You passed on an opportunity to escalate the drama...wise decision.

I often share this simplified analogy about boundaries I hope it helps...

We've all seen this at the grocery store...

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eating good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: Not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (what we call an Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want and if it gets them what they want once screaming in the grocery store will likely work again. What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store...the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

Just to add to this a little bit with a modification that is happening in your situation.  Your mom inviting everyone on the planet into the drama to pick on ProudDad, is like the kid having the tantrum in the store, telling mom that all their friends get candy! and the friend's moms, the grocery store clerk, the meat counter guy, the deli clerk, and the random passer by pressuring the mom to buy the candy isle.

I know what's happening is overwhelming and really hard but stick with your boundary.  Boundaries are about protecting you not about punishing someone else.  You are protecting yourself from abuse, hang in there.

More on Extinction Burst...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

pursuingjoy right on the money!

Panda39

Hi ProudDad.  I keep thinking about your situation, specifically where you say you are no contact.  The purpose of no contact, which is a tool, is to give yourself time away from the abuse so you can recover and work on ways that can improve your situation.  A lot of that involves learning about how to detach emotionally and enforce boundaries based on your personal values with love and respect for you, your family and your parents as well.

Like the excerpt from the article that pursuingJoy linked here, it does involve being willing to be seen as the bad guy.  that is so hard to accept, I know, I've been there.

I think one of the areas that might help you get more distance is to stop reading the facebook posts every day.  You said your wife is checking them.  Stop checking.  Unfollow your mother.  You don';t need to block her but you can if you want.  Stop replyuing to texts and phone calls.  If friends bring up things about them tell them you need a break from talking about your parents.

This time of NC is about you and healing yourself and working to get to a better and stronger place.  Some of what I am reading from you indicates you are working on that and in other areas, you are jumping right back into the drama triangle. 

Do you see what I see here?

BTW that article, the three faces of victim can be a tough read for us here as it shows how we participate in the drama and eventually work ourselves into the victim role but it is well worth it.

As opposed to seeking a professional, outside voice with no skin in the game, but rather the voices who would rather continue to foment a dysfunctional family dynamic? Of course he would say that. As Notwendy alludes to, the Family dynamic adjusts to preserve its [dysfunctional] system. That's how it survives. Conflicts are normal, but not to this level.

I totally agree with this.  I don't have a BPD mom but have a controlling and critical mom.  It took me a long time...47 years to realize that her opinion of me was just that, her opinion.  Her criticisms of me were actually about her and about how she thought I reflected on her.  They had nothing to do with me and who I am.  I came to the conclusion that I would never be who she wanted me to be and that she would never be the mom I needed her to be.  I accept this and have a relationship with her that functions from this point of view.  I no longer expect her to love the authentic me she just can't do it she isn't able, and I no longer recognize her criticisms as valid so they don't hurt me anymore.

It is about accepting she is who she is and working with that and protecting myself accordingly. I am low contact with my mom, and I don't share everything I do and feel...there is a distance and that is how it has to be for a relationship with her to work.

I have a group of friends that love the authentic me, and this includes some older women friends that I can connect with.  I have in a sense created my own Family from those people...the people that support me.

family noun, fam·​i·​ly | \ ˈfam-lē  , ˈfa-mə-\, plural families

Definition of family
1a : the basic unit in society traditionally consisting of two parents rearing their children
also : any of various social units differing from but regarded as equivalent to the traditional family

Look for your "family" who are they?  Who is supporting you, who believes you, who is listening to your feelings, who is supporting the authentic you?

I think radical acceptance is part of the equation, accepting your mom is who she is, she isn't likely to change and making your relationship decisions based on that.  Based on what is, not what you hope she will be. 

Panda39

You were her first love? Not your dad or possible past boyfriends?  That sounds creepy to me.


That's because you're more differentiated as your own Self than them, even though you're struggling. All of the Eight Concepts are worth reading here.

Differentiation of Self

People with a poorly differentiated “self” depend so heavily on the acceptance and approval of others that either they quickly adjust what they think, say, and do to please others or they dogmatically proclaim what others should be like and pressure them to conform. Bullies depend on approval and acceptance as much as chameleons, but bullies push others to agree with them rather than their agreeing with others. Disagreement threatens a bully as much as it threatens a chameleon. An extreme rebel is a poorly differentiated person too, but he pretends to be a “self” by routinely opposing the positions of others.

Going NC with my uBPDm had sever consequences for me and my FOO. I was left out of several events, partly because my Mom was the chosen one and partly because my oldest sibling stopped communicating with with for no apparent reason. I was the scapegoat, even though my siblings knew Mom was the one with mental illness. So currently I am LC with my uBPDm and communicate with my siblings (mostly one, and not the oldest) in regards to major family holidays and coordinating issues with my elderly Mom. I am learning to detach, but know that in time I may need to pull back from the entire FOO in order to have a healthier and happier life. My Mom and subsequently my FOO stir up too much anxiety. Figuring out that less contact is the lesser of 2 evils, I had hoped for a happier outcome, but I am accepting more that life with a borderline parent is not happy and extremely convoluted.

This is so tough -- I watched my mom in this situation with her uBPD stepmother and enabled dad. It helped that my father moved us 200 miles away. They stayed LC and medium chill.I

My immediate thought is that, it your father wants to see the children while he is in town, he can reach out to you. Your brother is still trying to bring your dysfunctional family back to its previous comfort level, and he's inserting himself between you and your parents.

This thread reached the maximum post limit and has been split and locked.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339409.msg13075355#msg13075355

Thank you.