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Stillhopeful4
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« on: September 11, 2019, 07:06:42 AM »

I have a question for anyone that has a BPD wife (or spouse). 

Does your partner not like to engage in sex?  Other than at the very beginning when she wanted sex constantly, over the past 10 years she has only wanted sex when she's been drinking.  We have gone between 18-24 months without any touching of any sort.  She claims she can't get close to me because I have hurt her with my words so much.  She also says this has happened in every relationship she's ever had and that as much as she's tried she can't get back to those "in love" feelings that she feels at the very beginning of the relationship therefore doesn't want intimacy.

Thoughts?  Experience with this?

SH4


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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 07:15:44 AM »

Hey SH4

well my partner ebbs and flows with this, at the beginning there was a lot.  Then when hes depressed he doesnt and it can be a long time, but no where near as long as that,  maybe a month, Unless theres drink involved.  When he dysregulates he normally gets in touch because thats what he wants
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 10:13:05 AM »

Mine is odd and eccentric, we managed four kids, but one trait of cluster A PDs is struggle with intimacy. She has most of the BPD traits though, no formal DX for BPD, just formal DX for STPD.  activity was much greater in the beginning of the relationship.

She now preferres closeness at arms length.
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 10:38:38 AM »

Interesting timing.  We had sex last night for the first time in around two months.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

It was actually a little difficult for me, to be honest.

Historically, she's had a very high drive and touch is a love language she receives in.  That works for me because I can be very expressive with touch and sex is one area we've been good with.

When she goes dark, though, a fear she has - recognizing our tendencies - is "smoothing over" problems with cuddling/sex.  So, there are some periods where she creates distance in that way to avoid temptation.

This has changed some over the past little over a year, though.  She fell in romanticly with a diagnosed sociopath and was burned.  Her libido tanked afterward because of the number he did on her mind.  In this, she realized her libido is strongly linked to trust, correlating how shattered her ability to trust in the wake of that was with how tanked her libido was.

That relationship had been above board as consensual non-monogamy, however, what brought her out of her libido drop was the rekindling of a relationship this last spring with another man that fell outside the polyamory and involved nearly leaving me for him.

So, this is all to say that her drive is generally high, historically, but wonky since the mess with the sociopath and realized to be tied to trust.

I should note... this is a 20 year relationship, so the wonkiness of the past year is a small part of the history.
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2019, 11:37:35 AM »

Basically , loads of sex at the start, could be as often as 3/4 times a day , she always wanted it. Then it slowly drifted off, by the end it was once every six weeks or so, or longer even, could never instigate it, was only ever on her terms .

Even if she was masterbating, I'd ask to join in, or if she wanted a hand quite literally, and she was like you're putting me off, I can't get into it now, n just went to sleep in a mood.

Never really seemed equal either, like , I'd PLEASE READ , but she was never willing to give me a PLEASE READ or do any kind of foreplay, was basically , PLEASE READ me now, which I wasn't always into.

Another favourite of hers is also, as soon as she PLEASE READ , she's done , get off me , night, n I'm left PLEASE READ , couldn't even PLEASE READ.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 04:24:11 PM by once removed » Logged
Red5
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2019, 12:53:40 PM »

I have a question for anyone that has a BPD wife (or spouse)...  

Does your partner not like to engage in sex?  

Other than at the very beginning when she wanted sex constantly,

…only wanted sex when she's been drinking.  

…have gone between 18-24 months without any touching of any sort.

Yup, #me2!

Love bombing after we met… she even told me "you've turned me into a nympho Red5"… wow

Then after marriage, ok at first, then slacked off, then there were a few thunderstorms... between long droughts…

Then towards the end, especially after her cancer dx… nothing… maybe two times in two years… its been over 1.4 years since the last "mercy killing" : (

*at the very beginning when she wanted sex constantly  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)
*only wanted sex when she's been drinking  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)
*have gone between 18-24 months without any touching of any sort  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

To be honest, as her behaviors grew worse… my "endearment" of her did wain… insert "sleeping with the enemy" here,

Red5

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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2019, 01:24:24 PM »

     This is the topic that got me to post the first time, maybe 3 years ago now.  So, I'm on drought that long come to think of it, and before that it had dwindled to  pretty infrequent anyway in a 25 year marriage. I'll spare you the long narrative I wrote at the time. I think the posts are archived under "members" if you want to read my tale of woe. Last year,  during an argument  that started over something else, she said, "I hate to tell you but I never liked it."  The implication was she never liked it with me, not that she never liked it generally. That really hurt, but  I tried not to show it.  We started out with the classic idealization phase. She seemed to like it at first. Since the I have been steadily devalued. I have all but given up on having any kind of normal married sex life now. 

  There were may similar tales from the prior posts. No one had any solutions. We had all tried everything from rational discussion to begging, bribing, flattering, anger, despair, ultimatums, marriage counselling and  makeovers. Nothing worked, and all we could offer each other was  "at least you're not the only one going though this this." You're situation is, sadly, common here. I wish I had more to offer you. At least you're not the only one going through this.  I wish you the best.
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 01:30:15 PM »

She now preferres closeness at arms length.

Birddog, that says it all.
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Red5


« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 02:17:14 PM »

... one things for sure... ‘she’ controls when - how - how long... and she doesn’t “take requests” ...

I’ve been compared to her ex husband now deceased, and all her ex boyfriends... and one ex fiancé... hmmm,

As the poster lenfan wrote... my wife has said things to me that pretty much “spiked my cannon”... the term “cold day in hell” comes to mind when I think about the things she has said to me...

My first wife was a childhood sexual abuse victim... long story and long marriage lasting 21 years and three children... current wife, now separated nine months... I often wonder about her as well... due to her issues.

I dunno... I’m pretty d-u-n right now,

And at 53, starting over seems very unlikely and quite risky.

Damn : (

Red5
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 02:21:50 PM »

intimacy issues are certainly common with bpd traits.

believe it or not, they are common in lots of marriages, for a variety of reasons.

Excerpt
tied to trust.

generalizing here, but most women will tell you that having trust and emotional connection is essential for sex; less so for men, generally speaking. perhaps more so than intimacy, people with bpd traits struggle with distrust toward others.

Excerpt
She claims she can't get close to me because I have hurt her with my words so much

this is a matter of distrust.

sometimes it can be rebuilt, sometimes it cant, and more than likely, it will always be a struggle, but it can be done.
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 03:20:57 PM »



I dunno .... I’m pretty d-u-n right now,

And at 53, starting over seems very unlikely and quite risky.

Damn : (

Red5

Red you’re not dun. And 53 isn’t so old. Keep positive and if you decide to move on from your wife. You could always find someone else. Think how much you’ve learnt from here that would help with anew relationship. If that’s what you want at one point
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 05:00:55 PM »

I’ve been married 30 years now.  Wife gone 3.5 months now.  Up until about 9 months ago sex was like once every 8 weeks and I had to almost beg.  Then, after her mom passed, that all changed.  Sex was like daily or more.  Crazy stuff.  We scooted the bed 1/2 way across the room Smiling (click to insert in post).   She could never get enough.  Toys, videos, she even talked about bringing in others to join us.  Pretty much nothing was off limits.  I wasn’t complaining, but sexually she was a whole different woman now.

Gadget
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 08:09:45 PM »

I never know what is normal
Or not.

Most of my friends married to non bpd’s report their wife never wanting sex a few years into marriage.
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 08:23:53 PM »

Hi Red5,

I met my wife in Business Data Processing class at skill center when she was 17 and I was 18.

I don’t know much about her life before then.  Here is what I do know.  She was an only child.  She used to smoke and liked to drink and party (still drinks these days, like daily).  Her grandmother lived at her house for awhile and passed from Alzheimer’s.  Her mother had Alzheimer’s too and stayed at the medical care facility my wife worked at for 3-4 years.  So she could see her mother every work day and feed her lunch.  But over time her mother no longer knew who she was and that was tough on her.

She discovered she had a 1/2 brother she didn’t really know about.  They got in contact.  She went to see him a few times, and he came to our house a few times.  They had a falling out when my wife’s mom passed and he didn’t come for the funeral.  That hurt her pretty bad.

No abuse I know of but her mom was a work a holic.  When we first had kids, she would tell my wife, I’ll watch your kids for you if you are going to work, but if you want to go out and have dinner or fun then it’s a no.
 
Much of this started 1 year ago after her mom passed.  She would say daily “I’m not happy”. But couldn’t put her finger on why.  She’d say “I’m not sure I want to be married anymore, but you are a great guy, great husband, great father, it’s not you it’s me”, and “I’ve been a mom, a wife, a cook, a maid for 30 years, but never been myself”.

It’s weird.  It’s like she expects me and my kids to be happy with the choice she made.  Happy she can make it on her own.  And she has zero remorse for abandoning us all.

She has anxiety and is depressed and is on meds for that.  I think this is part mid life crisis, part Compassionate Caregiver Overload and BPD.

Gadget
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Red5


« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 08:32:15 PM »

One thing is for sure... sex is used as bait, hence the term “Love Bombing”... which in a borderline courtship is part of the ideation phase.

Then once married... I am talking over forty second marraige... sex, is now used as a tool of manipulation,

I remember my udx wife once telling me, and I thought at the time that she was being playful and jokeful...

“If you play your cards right today Red5, you might actually get to /F/ “shag” your wife tonight”’...

After a while... sex came monthly... then even further apart... until I would joke  ...   “hey babe you know it’s my birthday... anniversary... the tags on the truck are due... Haley’s comet is passing earth... etc’

If she got drunk... I could STFB! : )

But what kind of sex life is that...

Red5
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 08:35:55 PM »

I know during the last few months before she left, after she got home from work and had a drink, all I had to do is give her a hard kiss or send some dirty texts and sex was 99% guaranteed.  She couldn’t get enough.

Gadget
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 08:53:58 PM »

That could be possible Red5, but our shared therapist says it started 25 years ago when our special needs son was born.  I actually think it is a combo of all the things.

Very wild story you mentioned.  Never heard anything like that in my life.  Almost too crazy to believe.  My kids were allowed to date at 16, but we always met the person and they were the same age, not 5-6 years older.

Gadget
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 09:17:20 PM »

Awesome!  I never had to do that as my daughter is a Karate Master, and I’m a 3rd degree Black Belt.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Gadget
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2019, 12:58:38 AM »

Hi SH4-

I’m sorry for the absence of true intimacy in your marriage.  I don’t know your history (apologies); but are you and your W in a good place communication wise?

Do you think there’s any way, using the comm tools, that you and she can “find” a path back toward one another?  A way for you to differentiate yourself from whoever else she may have distanced herself from in her past?

I ask this because my uBPDbf and I have moved through numerous cycles during our last 6 years (we’re both 61 now).  And although sex and intimacy has never been completely off the table, there have been times when he’s been somewhat depressed.  He doesn’t normally admit to depression.  I then behave as his best friend / confidant, and we work our way back to being playful lovers. 

I use and practice most of the communication tools here... he has not escalated to rage (KNOCK WOOD) in four months.  And now we’ve come up with very funny and sexual “safe” words in case he rises to anger.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2019, 09:50:05 AM »

Anyone try the Gottman card deck phone app, eg salsa mild medium and hot?

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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 10:27:41 AM »

Hi Gems,

I’m sorry for the absence of true intimacy in your marriage.  I don’t know your history (apologies); but are you and your W in a good place communication wise?

No, we had a falling out, pretty bad in June, she moved out and got her own place two weeks ago.  She rarely talks to me and is on the fence right now as to if she should file for a divorce.  I've told her I love her and will stand by her through this (we've been together 10+years and she's moved out about 10 times, this is the 2nd time to her own place).

Sex has always been a huge issue for us.  Other than those first few months (which I think most of that revolved around drinking as well), the only time she ever wanted to have sex was when she was drunk...which is NOT very often.

Red..... as usual your situation with MrsRed sounds very similar to mine.

SH4
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 12:51:02 PM »

So... my gf has recenlty been Dx with BPD, even though we have known for years. She has a problem with staying faithful and lying; and has been caught on dating websites and most recently having an affair online. We have not had sex in over 2 years (we've been together 4). What makes me most frustrated is that she had no problem being intimate with a stranger, but she wont touch me. Like what is the point? Is she so desperate for control that she just doesn't want me to see anyone else? Why are you even trying to be with me if you have no interest in putting your hands on me? When is it enough? How long do I wait?  The fighting has dramatically decreased since I moved out, so I guess that's a plus. I'm not gonna lie I do love her, but I'm tired and in desperate need of attention. So my question is has anyone here tried having an open relationship or is that just a huge no no with ppl with BPD? I mean they are already acting like its open on their side.
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 03:34:15 PM »

So my question is has anyone here tried having an open relationship or is that just a huge no no with ppl with BPD? I mean they are already acting like its open on their side.

We have been a part of the swinging lifestyle for a few years, most of that also including polyamory (on her part, not mine).  I have also worked on staff in a swinger's club, so am pretty familiar with that lifestyle.

"Open relationship" is a vague term.  I ave mixed feelings and advice and don't want to hijack this thread, but will throw out a few cautions to strongly consider:

Most people who enter into either swinging or polyamory as a way of fixing things find the opposite.  I've seen it too many times.  There needs to be a healthy base of some sort.

Every relationship has boundaries, open or not. If there aren't agreed upon rules and guidelines, even if very basic, it's tough to keep it healthy and respectful.  If there are boundaries, there is always the potential for boundaries to be broken - ie. cheating can still happen, especially if the partner's tendency is to test and break boundaries anyway.

Can it be a huge no with pwBPD's?  I think it can depend on the person and what you'd see as a huge no.  There can be a tendency to disregard boundaries when there is less impulse control.  Being driven by emotion to make decisions, there can also be messy potential.  It has the possibility of a "given an inch, take a mile" situation.

But, then, as I have argued with regard to my wife's most recent affair (despite polyamory)... it could have happened regardless.  In fact, it did.  She had almost left me for the same guy a few years before poly was a consideration.  There had been a successful second round with him that was above the table and comfortably within bounds during our poly.  And then there had been a third round which did stray over into affair territory and again almost led to her leaving me.

The problem was not the poly.  The problem was the coincidence with a period of my being painted black with emergences of him in a white knight "grass is greener" scenario that led to secrecy and deception as she kept it off my radar until "it's too late... I may be leaving you... it's too serious with him."  That can happen regardless of mono/poly with any set of boundaries... and certainly does, as you see repeatedly here.

A huge but is this... one difference is in the mind of the BPD.  They can very adeptly twist things in their mind to avoid seeing where they are going wrong and justify what is going on.  It does become a bit easier if boundaries are wider for them to think themselves into believing they are within boundaries.  Then again, if they really want to chase it and cross boundaries of any sort, they can usually find a reason in their mind.

Up thread, I mentioned having sex with her for the first time in a couple month... and that *I* struggled with it.  A lot of that has to do with mental blocks related to this last round and feeling of betrayal.  She was talking "more! again!" yesterday and I felt that even more keenly... and actually avoided sex last night.  I'm struggling with what to do there.
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2019, 12:42:42 PM »

  A lot of that has to do with mental blocks related to this last round and feeling of betrayal. 

This is exactly what my T told me and the fact that the blocks/walls come down when there is alcohol involved validates that.

SH4
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2019, 04:37:11 PM »

I hear you.  I’m in the “desert” right now.  I’ve gone months with nothing, then occasionally we’ll reconcile and have sex.  For the past year I can count the occasions on one hand..,
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2019, 03:33:09 AM »

SH4,

Can you tell us how you feel about the lack of intimacy?  A lot of us get so caught up in trying to make things work we don't talk about how we feel about some of these things.  How has the lack of intimacy impacted you?

RC
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2019, 06:36:20 AM »

SH4,
Can you tell us how you feel about the lack of intimacy?  A lot of us get so caught up in trying to make things work we don't talk about how we feel about some of these things.  How has the lack of intimacy impacted you?
RC

I'm not sure how I feel... I don't think it's so much about the actual sex, just the fact that she talks and tells friends and co-workers all of her feelings but she doesn't talk to me about them.  That makes me feel very envious/jealous of them.  It hurts that if I tried to hold her hand she would hold mine for about 10 seconds then let go for some reason, this has been for our entire relationship.  Also, kissing, she would never come up to me and give me a kiss or a peck, I always had to initiate that and for the past several years I was given the cheek.  As far as sex I don't think we've had sex in the past 10 years when she didn't have alcohol.  How does all of that make me feel?  Not wanted.  Not worthy.  Not good enough.

SH4
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2019, 10:05:33 AM »

I  How does all of that make me feel?  Not wanted.  Not worthy.  Not good enough.

Same here. I'll add frustrated, discouraged and bitter to the list.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2019, 02:56:59 PM »

How does all of that make me feel?  Not wanted.  Not worthy.  Not good enough.
SH4

I'm so sorry to hear this.  If we have a BPD partner for whom sex is a difficult topic, and we're empathetic and determined to make things work with them, it can feel like our need for intimacy is a selfish thing.  It may be difficult to talk about.  Yet intimacy is an important part of romantic relationships, and can be more important for some of us than others.  For some, platonic intimacy -- touching and holding -- is even more important than sex.  Have you tried to talk with her about how this makes you feel?  If you have, how did it go?

RC
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2019, 08:45:11 AM »

I have a question for anyone that has a BPD wife (or spouse).  

Does your partner not like to engage in sex?  Other than at the very beginning when she wanted sex constantly, over the past 10 years she has only wanted sex when she's been drinking.  

Thoughts?  Experience with this?

SH4

Yes, seen the same. I could only make love to a drunk wife stinking of wine ...

Things got very bad, she decided that we need to try swinging again, she got off with a man and 2 women and really enjoyed it.

The next day she claimed that they raped her and almost got them jailed. Needless to say that, despite having a great orgasm with that bunch, she never accepted to make love with me ...

Enough was enough, I quit ...
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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2019, 09:00:02 AM »

Have you tried to talk with her about how this makes you feel?  If you have, how did it go?

Yes RC, we have talked about it for years and even with our T.  She says she just can't do it, even hand holding, because it hurts her too much.  She claims that in every romantic relationship she's ever had, she's never been able to "get back to" the "in love" feelings she had the first few months.  Our T tried explaining that those early feelings aren't love, they are more infatuation and that deep love grows over time.  She claims I have hurt her too much with things I've said to ever be able to get "back there".  She has outright told me that she will never be able to give me what I need when it comes to intimacy and romance.  But she did in the beginning...oh did she ever!  Mind you this is the girl that's cheated on me several times and I have never once even looked at another THAT WAY, but yet she can't get back there?  My T has emphasized to me several times that it's definitely NOT ME.  It's just so hard to not be desired by someone I love so much.  It's sad.

SH4
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2019, 11:51:51 AM »

It is incredibly hard.  It sounds hard for both of you.

With a big gap in meeting our relationship needs like this, the two things that seem to work are reaching a place of genuine acceptance, or moving on.  What doesn't seem to work is burying our needs and feeling the pain again and again.  Finding "genuine acceptance" is a pretty tough goal, and "moving on" is gut wrenching.  The alternative, doing nothing, is less scary in the short term, so many of us keep doing it for years or decades, but it eats at us.

I'm really sorry you're in such a painful situation.  There are no easy answers here.

Are there areas where the relationship meets your needs?  Can you describe some moments when you feel filled with love for her?

RC
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« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2019, 12:44:18 PM »

Are there areas where the relationship meets your needs?  Can you describe some moments when you feel filled with love for her?

She can be very caring.  She will help me do things around the house.  She's amazing at organizing (and I'm not so much).  She likes to go for walks as do I.  For the most part she's helpful with the kids. She's great at planning things. But those aren't moments.  In 10 years she bought me flowers once because her friend told her to.  That was 8 years ago.  She said she hates flowers because "they just die."  She knows I love them, but because she holds this "value" on flowers, she can't bring herself to waste money on them for me.  Needless to say, that moment 8 years ago I felt filled with love!  I would also feel filled with love when she would randomly text me during the day just with a cute pic or to say hi.  But with her, it's hard to feel love, she rarely smiles and she doesn't talk to me much, especially since our falling out 3 months ago.

SH4
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2019, 01:47:26 PM »

Hey SH4,
Was just reading your post, and all those that replied. Wow!
At first she couldn't get enough!
Then went through phases of 'don't touch' then complain later of why I wasn't intimate'!!??
Went 4 months of ' don't touch'.
Now think I was suckered in by intimacy, only for her to use a control issue later.
Best of luck!
-BC
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2019, 02:25:00 AM »

It sounds like you've still got some of what John Gottman calls "fondness and admiration" going for her.  That's important to a relationship.

If things never improved on the intimacy front, is that something you could come to accept?  Could you be OK with it in 10 more years?  (There's no right answer here; it's OK whatever answer you give, or if you're not sure).

RC
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« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2019, 07:41:28 AM »

It sounds like you've still got some of what John Gottman calls "fondness and admiration" going for her.  That's important to a relationship.

If things never improved on the intimacy front, is that something you could come to accept?  Could you be OK with it in 10 more years?  (There's no right answer here; it's OK whatever answer you give, or if you're not sure).

RC

Yes, I was ok with it.  It's not something we ever fought about.  It would just be nice if she could figure out why she couldn't give that piece of herself to me anymore.  It's not that I needed it.  I was happy with her companionship.

SH4
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2019, 02:58:22 PM »

Got it.  It sounds like you're in touch with your feelings and what you can live with, which is good.

I've got two minds on this one.  On the one hand, it's important for us to understand what we can't change and accept it.  On the other hand, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of our needs consistently not being met, and part of me says to never give up.  If we don't try, nothing will change.  Perhaps there's a good balance between those two principles.

RC
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« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2019, 08:48:29 AM »

I've got two minds on this one.  On the one hand, it's important for us to understand what we can't change and accept it.  On the other hand, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of our needs consistently not being met, and part of me says to never give up.  If we don't try, nothing will change.  Perhaps there's a good balance between those two principles.

RC I agree with this completely!
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« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2019, 10:05:16 PM »

Staff only

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked.  Please feel free to start a new thread to continue the discussion there.

Thank you.
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