Divorce is Imminent

[turtleengine501]

Hi everyone,

I have started divorce proceedings after being in a relationship with my husband for 26 years (20 married). He was diagnosed with BPD 6 years ago and it really explained much of our relationship to that point. He worked on himself, by himself (refused to continue counseling, however) and he was really trying to "fix himself". I will say he improved, but still struggles (and doesn't realize he struggles).

I have been disengaged from our relationship for 18 months after his latest emotional affair with another woman (there have been two--the first prompting the BPD diagnosis). He became angry and sullen that I wouldn't recommit to him because he was sorry. I became so unhappy within the marriage that I wasn't sleeping and I started to have severe physical symptoms that started to affect my everyday life, my parenting of my children, and my work.

The pain I have suffered with this man is beyond measure and goes very deep. I can't think of one person in my life who really knows what I have been through. I have no friends and several friends over time have told me they couldn't stand to watch how he treated me and they exited from my life. My relationship with my sister has suffered because she can't stand to be around him and he has always been angry when I try to spend time with her alone.

I am the daughter of an alcoholic (which for all the research I've done attracted me to my BPD spouse in the first place). For a long time my only sense of self was through his perceptions of me. About 6 years ago, something in me changed and I no longer played into his baiting and gaslighting. Things have really been downhill from there as he wants things they way they used to be. He tells me he can't wait until our children are grown and out of the house and he will then have me all to himself again.

The hours, days, weeks I have spent giving him all my emotional energy has left me dead inside for lack of a better phrase. A perfect recent example is the day I found out a was awarded a huge promotion at work--I came home in a fantastic mood with an expensive bottle of champagne and made plans to celebrate with my family. He turned angry and made the night all about him and how I had been ignoring him and focusing only on work. We fought for 6 hours that night (he won't relent) and it was all about him and how I neglect him and the reason our marriage is bad is because of me and my obsession with my career (I work a 40 hour week and am really into work/life balance so that is not the issue).

I have two children; ages 11 and 14. My 14-year old "gets" it and wants us to divorce. The catalyst for this move was when he went after her one night the same way he used to go after me when things were at their worst. The emotional abuse of me was one thing, but I couldn't stand by and let my child suffer like that and have him scar her the way he has scarred me. It was bad enough she had been adjacent to the emotional abuse all these years--the guilt I feel is unbearable at times. Something in me snapped and there was no longer a question of making this marriage work.

We had to leave our home with basically nothing (he would not leave so it was my only option) except the clothes on our backs and start rebuilding our lives (thank god for my family support system). He comes to my new rental home everyday (finding things he "must" talk to me about), calls me at least 2-3 times a day, and texts me more than I can count (he has called twice and texted 3 times since I started this post). The only reason he hasn't shown up at my work is that I told him I will call the police if he shows up at my office (after a terrible incident the last time I left him briefly 4 years ago).

He keeps trying to get me to come home. I have not served papers yet as I am still trying to see if I can get belongings out of my house before I give him exclusive rights to the house since I have signed a lease on a new house. Our older daughter's birthday is next week and I also don't want him making that day all about him. I know that once he is served things are going to get even uglier. He has convinced himself this is temporary and I will not go through with the divorce.

My 11 year old is suffering greatly and blames me for the situation we find ourselves in. He tells her he's going to "fix it" and cries and blames me for it all in front of her. She's angry that she isn't at "home" and he continually tells her our new house will never be her home.

I am reaching out at this point to find out if anyone who has left a relationship with someone with BPD has any advice for how to navigate this break up. The struggle is that I can't cut off ties because we have the two minor children, who for better or worse, need their dad in their lives. I am empathetic to his pain and suffering as I leave, but I can't ignore my own any longer.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[CoherentMoose]

Hello.  Sorry to read the difficult situation you find yourself in.  Have you read Splitting by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger? (https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254)  It may help you in defining your strategy going forward along with the advice you receive in here. 

Also, do you have a lawyer who is familiar with a high conflict divorce?  There are several threads on this board detailing the importance of having a lawyer familiar with high conflict people.   

It sounds like you may need to limit his ability to communicate with you somehow by going to low, or very low contact.  Many posts in here eventually had to move to email communications only to get away from the constant stress of dealing with a high conflict partner.  Plus, email only has the added benefit of recording what is said as part of your documentation effort.   

Good luck on your journey.  Keep you eye on the prize.  jdc

[turtleengine501]

Thank you for the book referral. Downloaded it to my Kindle and will start it tonight.

I do need to be better about implementing low contact—that is great advice. Emails are a great idea as it takes away the expectation of an immediate response.

I did find a lawyer who has dealt with high conflict divorces. Luckily I’m in a no-fault state and everything is basically boiled down to mathematical algorithms so there will be very little for him to battle me over with exception of custody of the children. That will be hell but I am feeling good about my lawyer.

Thanks for the advice! And you are right—the prize will be worth it.

[worriedStepmom]

Divorce is hard in general, and even more so if you have a spouse with a personality disorder.

Are you and your children in counseling?  It can really help all of you to process what has happened and the changes in your lives.  For you, particularly, you can start to work through the guilt (because you did the best you could do, and when you learned better you made different choices).  Your girls will need to learn how to deal with their dad without you running interference, and a counselor can help them set boundaries and work through their anger.

What kind of parenting schedule are you going to request?  Many times, a standard custody schedule doesn't work as well with a BPD parent - it is too much emotional abuse for the children to handle.

[MeandThee29]

Divorce is hard in general, and even more so if you have a spouse with a personality disorder.

Are you and your children in counseling?  It can really help all of you to process what has happened and the changes in your lives.  For you, particularly, you can start to work through the guilt (because you did the best you could do, and when you learned better you made different choices).  Your girls will need to learn how to deal with their dad without you running interference, and a counselor can help them set boundaries and work through their anger.

I agree. As mine drags on, I shared recent struggles with a friend, and she recommended that I try counselling with a slightly different approach from a different counsellor that has helped her. So I'm weighing that because I feel stuck in certain areas.

I'll add that this likely isn't going to be quick or straightforward. You may think you're close to an agreement, and then they'll get triggered and throw in more stuff. Or change their minds. And if you hire a lawyer with a speciality in high-conflict divorce, they're likely going to be in court a lot. So there will be delays. If both of you have busy lawyers, double the delays. The average divorce supposedly takes 1-2 years in my area, so I'm not holding onto expectations any more.

[turtleengine501]

Divorce is hard in general, and even more so if you have a spouse with a personality disorder.

Are you and your children in counseling?  It can really help all of you to process what has happened and the changes in your lives.  For you, particularly, you can start to work through the guilt (because you did the best you could do, and when you learned better you made different choices).  Your girls will need to learn how to deal with their dad without you running interference, and a counselor can help them set boundaries and work through their anger.

What kind of parenting schedule are you going to request?  Many times, a standard custody schedule doesn't work as well with a BPD parent - it is too much emotional abuse for the children to handle.

I do need to get both my children and myself back into counseling. My children were seeing a counselor two years ago for anxiety and it turned into navigating their relationship with their dad. I do need to reconnect with their counselor so they can share freely--I know my older one is trying to be strong and my younger one needs a place to vent with no fear of repercussions.

Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation of his diagnosis, so my lawyer says I should anticipate 65/35 since I CAN at least document that I have been the primary parent/caregiver. The good news is in my state, the court takes into account the children's requests when they are over the age of 14--my older child turns 14 next week, so that should have an impact in how much time they spend with him (fingers crossed).

[turtleengine501]

I agree. As mine drags on, I shared recent struggles with a friend, and she recommended that I try counselling with a slightly different approach from a different counsellor that has helped her. So I'm weighing that because I feel stuck in certain areas.

I'll add that this likely isn't going to be quick or straightforward. You may think you're close to an agreement, and then they'll get triggered and throw in more stuff. Or change their minds. And if you hire a lawyer with a speciality in high-conflict divorce, they're likely going to be in court a lot. So there will be delays. If both of you have busy lawyers, double the delays. The average divorce supposedly takes 1-2 years in my area, so I'm not holding onto expectations any more.

I have steeled myself that everything you mentioned will probably happen. I can't imagine how much this is going to cost, but it will be worth it in the end. I told my lawyer I'm guessing he will also have lawyers that end up dropping him and that will delay things as well.
Everyone has been such a godsend. It's just such a relief to know that we are all not alone in this.

[worriedStepmom]

Diagnosis doesn't really mean anything.  It's the behaviors that influence the court.  If you can document emotional abuse towards the children, or attempts to alienate the children against you, the judge would take that into consideration.  Also whether the counselor thinks the kids shouldn't be around dad for their emotional safety and mental well-being.

Your kids are at hard ages.  My H had 50/50 custody of SD (with her mom as primary parent) until last summer (age 11).  SD's mom was increasing the pressure on SD, and SD couldn't handle the stress.  For the last year, we've been at 65/35, with my H as primary parent.  The emotional abuse sent SD's way was awful, so we're about to drop down to supervised visitation with the potential for SD's mom to work her way up to 10% of the time (with no overnights).  Her mom just isn't capable of consistently parenting well.  Your ex may do better - and if he doesn't, just be prepared to be back in court again, if necessary.

We've been fairly fortunate that SD's mom is terrified of authority, including the court system.   She absolutely refuses to appear in court, and she's been willing to sign whatever documents H gives her (after 3-4 months of crazymaking).  Her desire to play the victim trumps her desire to win.  Do you think your H will follow that path (be more agreeable, eventually), or is he the kind of person who will fight to the death?

[ForeverDad]

Diagnosis doesn't really mean anything.  It's the behaviors that influence the court.  If you can document emotional abuse towards the children, or attempts to alienate the children against you, the judge would take that into consideration.  Also whether the counselor thinks the kids shouldn't be around dad for their emotional safety and mental well-being.

So true.  I was in and out of court for 8 years (2005-2013), went from alternate weekends to majority time during the school year.  It was only the final decision at court that the court admonished her "disparagement" of dad.  The court's fixes were in small steps, that's why it took so long.  They very well would have worked if both parents were reasonably normal.  Court assumed wrong.

Kids of course don't want to be in the middle.  And PD parents involve the kids way too much.  Likely your youngest thinks that making some sort of a deal will reduce the conflict.  Sadly, appeasement and walking on eggshells doesn't work, not long term.  And going back to the way things were isn't a solution either.

[turtleengine501]

Diagnosis doesn't really mean anything.  It's the behaviors that influence the court.  If you can document emotional abuse towards the children, or attempts to alienate the children against you, the judge would take that into consideration.  Also whether the counselor thinks the kids shouldn't be around dad for their emotional safety and mental well-being.

Your kids are at hard ages.  My H had 50/50 custody of SD (with her mom as primary parent) until last summer (age 11).  SD's mom was increasing the pressure on SD, and SD couldn't handle the stress.  For the last year, we've been at 65/35, with my H as primary parent.  The emotional abuse sent SD's way was awful, so we're about to drop down to supervised visitation with the potential for SD's mom to work her way up to 10% of the time (with no overnights).  Her mom just isn't capable of consistently parenting well.  Your ex may do better - and if he doesn't, just be prepared to be back in court again, if necessary.

We've been fairly fortunate that SD's mom is terrified of authority, including the court system.   She absolutely refuses to appear in court, and she's been willing to sign whatever documents H gives her (after 3-4 months of crazymaking).  Her desire to play the victim trumps her desire to win.  Do you think your H will follow that path (be more agreeable, eventually), or is he the kind of person who will fight to the death?

It’s all so up in the air at this point. He has decided to get himself back into counseling and get on anti-anxiety medication, which has made a difference in his reaction and moods. It still doesn’t make me want to change moving forward with the divorce however.

He has backed off on wanting the kids 50% of the time. He says he can’t handle the workload of taking care of the kids and working full-time. Which just makes me want to be Bitter Betty because that’s been my life since the day they were born, But with distance from him I’ve gotten better at not engaging with him. The other side of that coin is that hopefully he won’t fight me on primary physical custody. The girls are with me 6 nights a week right now.

He’s been dodging the process server, so he actually hasn’t been served divorce papers yet even though he knows they’re coming. I’m guessing once he actually gets them in hand, I’ll see an uptick in his behaviors again. So I’m kind of at a loss at where this is going and I’m just trying to take it day by day.

[worriedStepmom]

It's actually a really good thing that he sees his limits with the kids.  So many disordered parents think they are doing fine, and their kids suffer because the parents just can't handle that much time.

Make sure you are documenting all the comments that he makes along those lines, and that you have documentation on how much they are with you.  That will come in handy if there is a custody fight.

[ForeverDad]

Just so you're aware... personality disorders are not resolved with just meds.  It's how the person thinks that needs improvement.  That requires long term therapy and even then there can be lingering issues.

For example, in the past insurance often wouldn't cover BPD so many therapists diagnosed Bi-polar with similar behaviors which was covered.  But Bi-polar is a chemical imbalance which meds can generally resolve.  On the other hand, Borderline is not.  While meds can moderate issues, long term therapy is necessary.

[mart555]

It's actually a really good thing that he sees his limits with the kids.  So many disordered parents think they are doing fine, and their kids suffer because the parents just can't handle that much time.

And quite frequently they see themselves as the best parent...

[MeandThee29]

It’s all so up in the air at this point. He has decided to get himself back into counseling and get on anti-anxiety medication, which has made a difference in his reaction and moods. It still doesn’t make me want to change moving forward with the divorce however.

I’m guessing once he actually gets them in hand, I’ll see an uptick in his behaviors again. So I’m kind of at a loss at where this is going and I’m just trying to take it day by day.

Just remember that short-term improvement is just that. Short-term. The anti-anxiety medication and counselling may smooth things out a little, but it's the long-term that counts.

You're likely in for quite a ride. Mine should have been simple, but no. I gave up on expecting a reasonable process and timely resolution.

This may be the fight of your life.

[kells76]

Hi turtleengine501, hope things are going ok for you and your kids.

He has backed off on wanting the kids 50% of the time. He says he can’t handle the workload of taking care of the kids and working full-time.

I'm thinking the same thing as worriedstepmom - was this in an email? Text? Voicemail? Having a record of him saying stuff like this is important.

Email can then do double duty for you -- it can serve as documentation of when he says "I don't want the kids that much", and, like you mentioned earlier, it can help you slow down reactions (like in face to face, phone, or even texting) into thoughtful responses. I'd definitely recommend emails at this point.

Let us know how you're doing, when you're up for it --

kells76

[turtleengine501]

I can't believe so much as happened since I last posted. It was interesting reading all my previous posts and seeing how far (or not) things have come.

After my last post in October, H decided he had met the woman of his dreams. Surprising no one, since he can't be alone. I'm guessing he was already involved with her when I moved out, since it came on so quickly (wouldn't be the first time).

He spends every waking moment with her, and is really upsetting my girls that he talks about her so much when they are with him. My oldest keeps getting upset and asking why, if just a few months ago, he was telling her he couldn't live without me and she had to help him get me back, he is suddenly in love with someone else? It's a terrible conversation to have with your child.

For me, all he is doing is confirming that I am doing the right thing.

On the divorce front, he was finally served in December after 18 attempts by a process server. As of today, he still has not completed the paperwork that he needs to complete to move forward that he has had since December. Added to that are the closed courts because of COVID. I'm treading water and just want so badly to move forward with all of this. He did buy me out of the house (not a hill I was willing to die on), but now is preventing me from getting anything out of it (my clothing, personal items, kids' things, etc.).

We had to go to ordered curbside pickups of the kids in January because he came in to my house one day and wouldn't leave (long story that I'm sure will be familiar to many of you). That has been good for lessening contact, but he still comes out to the car EVERY time I pick up the girls from him, finding something to talk to me about. The last time it was that he thinks it's time for the girls to meet his GF. I asked him if he could wait until the divorce is final--the kids keep asking why he has a GF if we are technically still married.

He just keeps trying to get under my skin any way he can, for example--at one point telling me the GF and him will be "out of the country" in September (I love to travel, so I think he thought that would eat at me). He just baits me trying to get me to react--I'm sure he wanted me to ask where he was going. He's mentioned it numerous times since then.

In amongst all this, my 14-year old honor student decided to become sexually active and has been sexting and sneaking boys into my house at night. One boy in particular was very worrisome as he has many of H traits and had a suicide attempt after I made her cut off contact with him. Yes, made sure the therapist is addressing this with her extensively--she thinks it's a definite move to grasp control of her life right now. H didn't react at all as I thought he would (he's always been the "dad with a shotgun" joke kind of guy, but he just shrugged this off like it was no big deal). So I've also been navigating that situation on my own.

He has had an inventory of the house items since end of May that we are supposed to divide. I have not seen it from him and asked him for it when he came out to my car. He has told me numerous times, "I'm working on it as we speak". I finally snapped (not good, I know) and told him he doesn't get to have his cake and eat it too. He doesn't get to have a GF but not make strides to finalize the divorce. I told him if he didn't get the list back to me, I would assume he wanted to keep all our community possessions and I would tell my lawyer to just add the value of the items to our draft settlement ($ is so important to him, so I knew that would do the trick). He had it back to me within 24 hours--a small victory.

My lawyer is drafting a settlement to change custody from 50/50 to 60/35. The 50/50 is just not working for the girls. When they are with him, they are completely on their own. That will be the next battle. I told my lawyer that I was willing to not take additional child support as a negotiation tactic if it came to that--I know he only wants 50/50 custody to keep his obligations to me down.

I'm feeling like I am stuck in major limbo. The lack of movement on the divorce is really taking a toll on me.

Thanks for reading.

[Overcoming]

Are you doing things for yourself and your own heart?  E.g. a walk, or a sit in a park.  Do your best to stay grounded and true to your girls and your needs.  Everything is moving in the direction you are desiring.  Time is the ultimate healer, but we need some positive things to fill that time as the journey occurs.  Sorry to hear about your daughter.  Think about what boundaries and rewards could be set up for her.  She may agree to some compromises because it may give her a sense of control.  Wishing you support.

[livednlearned]

The lack of movement can be a real bear.

You have good instincts, trying to figure out ways to leverage what he does care about so that you can get some movement forward on the things you care about.

I learned the hard way that it was critical to include dates and deadlines, as well as consequences for non-compliance. Meaning, "If these items are not in turtle's possession by day/date, then the following amount will be subtracted from mr. turtle's financial settlement."

On a separate note, since you are technically married and the home is marital property (is that correct?), can you have law enforcement accompany you and do a domestic visit to get your stuff? I don't believe they can enforce civil orders, but they may agree to come with you in order to make sure everything remains safe.

If that's not an option, I would move forward swiftly with what you said you would do -- following through on an ultimatum is important with someone who has a PD.

[MeandThee29]

I can't believe so much as happened since I last posted. It was interesting reading all my previous posts and seeing how far (or not) things have come.

I'm feeling like I am stuck in major limbo. The lack of movement on the divorce is really taking a toll on me.

I'm sorry that it's not moving for you.

Also, interesting reading what I posted back then too. Mine was final year end after a bold move on my attorney's part, and closeout is finally over. I didn't have custody issues, but he viewed closeout as more of the same. What should have taken 4-6 weeks took five months. In the end, I doubt that what little he got from me in closeout covered what he paid his high-priced lawyer for that part. It made sense to him, I guess.

It was truly messing with my mind in May though. I was thinking that I was going to go on more medication and/or get more therapy to get through it, and then it was over. Amazing how much clearer and calmer I am!

 

[turtleengine501]

Thank you for all the replies!

I have really gotten into meditation which has helped considerably when I'm feeling scattered or angry. The best part is, I get my girls meditating with me sometimes which has been great for all of us. It was funny, when I was feeling really low this last week about all this, I realized last night I hadn't been meditating every night as I usually do so I'm back to my routine.

I'm sorry that it's not moving for you.

What should have taken 4-6 weeks took five months. In the end, I doubt that what little he got from me in closeout covered what he paid his high-priced lawyer for that part. It made sense to him, I guess.

It was truly messing with my mind in May though. I was thinking that I was going to go on more medication and/or get more therapy to get through it, and then it was over. Amazing how much clearer and calmer I am!

I am so happy for you! What a relief to be finished. I can't wait for that day and it's so great to hear others remind you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

The lack of movement can be a real bear.

You have good instincts, trying to figure out ways to leverage what he does care about so that you can get some movement forward on the things you care about.

I learned the hard way that it was critical to include dates and deadlines, as well as consequences for non-compliance. Meaning, "If these items are not in turtle's possession by day/date, then the following amount will be subtracted from mr. turtle's financial settlement."

On a separate note, since you are technically married and the home is marital property (is that correct?), can you have law enforcement accompany you and do a domestic visit to get your stuff? I don't believe they can enforce civil orders, but they may agree to come with you in order to make sure everything remains safe.

If that's not an option, I would move forward swiftly with what you said you would do -- following through on an ultimatum is important with someone who has a PD.

Thank you--that is great advice. I did give up the house in April for 1/2 it's $ value--he insisted he have the house and wanted to get the refi out of the way before COVID got bad. So technically, I don't have access to it anymore. (Of course, he tells the girls he "had" to buy me out because he makes more $ and that he can't buy them anything anymore since he has to cover the house payment himself. Arg.) He applied for a home loan in my name, without my consent, to see if I could qualify before he insisted he get the house.

He's just being stubborn about letting me in to get things--the girls have told me he has moved all my personal stuff to the garage, so he's just doing it to be difficult. I like the idea of giving him hard deadlines. Definitely going to mention that to my attorney.

It's just such a relief to see others who have gone through the same thing. It's just so hard for anyone in my family or my friends to truly understand what it's been like. They try and are a great support system, but we have all walked in each others' shoes so we know the true extent of all of this craziness.

Love to all.