An update on DD20

[1hope]

It’s been a while since I posted, but a lot has happened with DD20.  Over the summer, she looked into an inpatient program (with encouragement from her new therapist).  We had high hopes, thinking she would finally get the amount of therapy she needed in order to learn some coping skills. Unfortunately, she has decided (despite having a diagnosis from her psychiatrist) that she does not have BPD.  As a result, the program she applied to was only for mood disorders, not BPD, and it did not have DBT. 

At the treatment facility, they changed her meds again, just before she left and went off to college in a new city for the first time.  Not great timing.  She now lives about an hour and a half away (although she did live in an apartment away from home before). 

It’s midterm, and she has fallen behind in everything and is crashing under the pressure.  She is having panic attacks, isn’t sleeping well, and is not using any of her skills or strategies.  She calls home every day, but is very negative about any options which we suggest (even though she asks for help/advice).  When I ask her what she feels she should do, she cries and says she doesn’t know.  She has clearly painted at least one of her profs black, and will not advocate for herself, since “she (the prof) won’t get it anyway”. 

I’m trying hard to use my skills that I’ve leaned here, but I’m getting worn down.  This weekend is Thanksgiving, and she’ll be coming here.  We’re worried she’ll say she doesn’t want to go back. 

Has anyone been here? Any advice is welcome!  Thanks everyone!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[twocrazycats]

My dd 18 is in her first year of college, and she has also been struggling under the pressure of midterms. She's had a few panic attacks, which she hadn't had in a while, and has called me saying she can't do it. I keep repeating that I have confidence that she can do it. I say, "I know this is really hard, but I also know that you can do it." I remind her of how she fell so far behind in high school and got herself back on track all on her own (I leave out the part about me sacrificing everything else in my life to make sure she didn't harm herself, get her the help she needed, etc.) I just keep repeating about how I know she can do it.

I also tell her that this is only midterm, and she still has plenty of time to get her grades up. I tell her that that's what I always told my students (I used to teach at the college she's attending). I also tell her that I see that she's in a hole, and when she's in a hole, in the past, instead of reaching up, she would keep digging down. I told her I knew that now that she's older, she could see what she's doing and stop digging and start reaching.

As far as painting a professor black, my dd is doing that with one of hers. I've acknowledged that it must be horrible having a professor like that, but that everyone gets one somewhere along the line, and the important thing is to just get through the course and then she'll be finished with him and never have to have hem again.

I don't know if any of this is any help, but with my dd, it seems to be helping. (I still dread her coming home this weekend, but more for behavior and interaction issues with me. I am very sure that she'll want to go back -- she loves the social life there.)

[wendydarling]

Hi 1hope

I have been thinking of you.

That's exhausting. I can also understand your worry she may give up and not go back. She worked hard to get there which is what TCC is saying to her DD.

Is she still with her latest therapist?

WDx

[1hope]

Thanks, Cats.  It sounds like we’ve been saying the same things to our kids!  It’s nice to know someone else is going through the same thing, and is dealing with it in a similar way! 

Wendy...yes, she is with her same therapist, but hadn’t seen or talked to her since she went into the inpatient program in July.  Using SET, I mentioned to her that it might help.  She had a phone session with T this past week, and said it was helpful. She will have a face to face when she is home on reading week next week.  She also met with 2 of her profs this week, and it went fairly well.  She is always concerned about how she will be perceived when she says she has anxiety (rarely mentions depression, and never says BPD).  I tell her that’s their issue, not hers. 

Some success...she went back to school with no issues.  Last time there were tears (sobbing actually).  It may help that she seems to have started to develop some friendships.  Baby steps...

[twocrazycats]

Glad to hear she went back with no issues, 1hope.

I took my dd back today, and she seemed fine. But tonight she called crying, saying she can't do it, she's having a panic attack, she's a failure, etc. She'd had plans to get all her work done today, and she hadn't done it. Anyway, I told her she can do it, but she needs to make herself sit down and write the essay that is due tomorrow. She was crying that it won't be any good, and I said that doesn't matter. It just has to get done. She was saying a voice in her head tells her she's no good, and I told her not to listen to it, it's not true. I also said that when she's in a hole like this, she only sees the black wall in front of her and the black walls to the sides and below. She doesn't look up and see the light and the way out. I kept repeating that she is strong and capable of getting herself out of the hole. She seemed much better at the end of the call, but we'll see. Will she do it? It's up to her. I wish she would talk to her professors about her anxiety, at least about her test anxiety. It's so bad that she never got her driver's learner's permit, because she got one answer wrong on the test and then froze, so she didn't pass. Then she was too scared to take it again.

Anyway, sorry to go on so long about my own dd. I hope both our daughters have a successful second half of the semester.

[PeaceMom]

Hope and Cats,
College is triggering for emotionally stable kids, that’s why I’m also so interested when people share here that their BPD child successfully made it through. I remember being paralyzed with fear and doubt when I’d have to write abstract type papers in college. The freedom given in those instances was just too much. I did much better with research papers that just required putting together facts.
My DD19 just skipped a Capstone writing assignment because she “forgot how to ALA format”. Just mind boggling bc she can/does find information on any topic under the sun thsts she’s interested in, but could google “what is ALA format”?

This is straight out of “Loving Someone with BPD” where Dr. Manning discusses “Apparent Competence” where by all appearances they should have mastered a skill (they may even believe they have), but they have not and they don’t know how to gain mastery of this skill at this later point in life.

Does any of this resonate?

[Onedayatatime73]

Hi there,

My daughter is younger than your's. She's in high school. She got totally stressed out with school and friends and had to be hospitalized again. I feel for them and for all of us too. It can feel so defeating and draining. What kind of support network do you have? I attend NAMI and Al Anon. I also have a wonderful husband, therapist and supportive friends. I plan date nights with my hubbie, see my girlfriends and spend one on one time with my son. The only advice I have is try and get in self care. Loving someone with bpd can be so draining. You deserve to take good care of yourself too. All my best!

Hope and Cats,
College is triggering for emotionally stable kids, that’s why I’m also so interested when people share here that their BPD child successfully made it through. I remember being paralyzed with fear and doubt when I’d have to write abstract type papers in college. The freedom given in those instances was just too much. I did much better with research papers that just required putting together facts.
My DD19 just skipped a Capstone writing assignment because she “forgot how to ALA format”. Just mind boggling bc she can/does find information on any topic under the sun thsts she’s interested in, but could google “what is ALA format”?

This is straight out of “Loving Someone with BPD” where Dr. Manning discusses “Apparent Competence” where by all appearances they should have mastered a skill (they may even believe they have), but they have not and they don’t know how to gain mastery of this skill at this later point in life.

Does any of this resonate?

[wendydarling]

1hope glad to hear you made it through and DD's back to college. You too 2CC.

My DD was living at home (still is, it's not a problem) during her year at Art Foundation and then three year degree. That obviously takes some of the heat out of it. There were four significant moments (I did not know of BPD then).
1) Art foundation, everyone bought in their piece of work to share. The lecturer dismissed her submission, not worth discussing and preferred talking about a brick. She was mortified and it changed her path, love of pure art.
2) End of year 1, DD shared she hated the degree. I suggested she take a year out and regroup. It's ok to make changes, in life, is good. She carried on.
3) Film set on location year 3. She called in tears, distraught, like the calls you and 2CC receive, end of the world.
4) She always submitted her work in, on time, as far as I know. Top grades. She totally dysregulated the run up to finals, last 6 months. She failed to back up her dissertation and lost it 2 days before submission. She re-wrote it, working day and night and submitted in time, with me running to get it printed and bound and passing to her to travel and hand in by 4pm deadline. I made contact with the University, her personal tutor to share. They provided extensions on remaining pieces of work and accepted she was in no fit state to sit in front of a panel to discuss her dissertation. They suggested she re-do year 3. DD said there was no way she could, too painful. She dug deep and submitted the final pieces by extended deadline offered. She was award 2:1, a step from a 1st. She did not attend the screening of her film at our National Film Theatre, nor her graduation.

Today she can look back at her education, it's the environment she always refers back to and can reflect, understand why it was so challenging for her. She wishes she'd taken a gap year, me too!  

I hope that is helpful.

1hope, knowing what I have learnt. I'd accept 'anxiety' and offer weekly online T to help my DD through. A very experienced T certified in DBT and other therapies, in a network can help your DD learn and work her skills. You, she need a broad support group, as we all do.

Look at this, arrived in my in box yesterdayhttps://events.themighty.com/events/details/the-mighty-mighty-events-in-colombia-presents-your-story-your-space-navigating-student-life-online-support-group/#/


It's taken my DD time to confidently advocate for herself, you and 2CC are on it, gently as you go.  

Have you read I'm not sick I don't need help! - Xavier Amador, Phd I'm up to  chapter 3. I'm learning a lot.

WDx

[PeaceMom]

Wendy,
Thank you for sharing this with us with college kids. Great idea about offering weekly phone or online T. So interesting now that you and you DD are on the other side of this mountain. Your DD’s insight is what gives me the most hope.
Peacemom

[wendydarling]

Great idea about offering weekly phone or online T

Of course I'm looking back Peacemom if it's presented as helping with panic attacks, anxiety being reported, it maybe palatable. Your young DD has moments of insight, you've shared with us. I focus on nurturing these moments. In my experience it takes one brilliant T who connects, to gently get them on the road. As said in 'I'm not sick' continued therapy, support (without breaks) leads to better outcomes. Obvious   yes, as we know in practice this can be difficult for many reasons. LnL's SD was in therapy (not DBT) throughout her college years and graduated this year.  

Having read here so many parents struggling to get their 18+yr old adults into, or stick with therapy, I shared this with DD and she said at 18 the last thing she'd do was sit in front of someone and talk about herself, her struggles. Look at her now! She seems to forget she did attend an eating disorder clinic, weekly for a year at 18 (no good outcome then) her GP failed to see any further, join the dots ...… to BPD.

Manning discusses “Apparent Competence” where by all appearances they should have mastered a skill (they may even believe they have), but they have not and they don’t know how to gain mastery of this skill at this later point in life.

Yes this resonates, it must be so frustrating.

Hang in there Peacemom  

WDx

[1hope]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!  Wendy...now that DD had the phone session, she has gone on to make a face-to-face appt for while she is at home for reading week. 

CC...our daughters sound very similar.  How often does your call you?  I pretty much get daily calls.  I’m trying to gently wean her off a bit.  It can be very draining to have 45 + minute calls when she is cycling.  I try to be reassuring like it sounds like you do, telling her she can do it, to use her tools etc.

Wendy...I wish I knew if her T had DBT training.  DD has had several T, and she seems to just like the ones who do talk therapy.  If they start asking her to do “homework” (use DBT skills), then suddenly things don’t work out. To be honest, I don’t even know if this one knows about the BPD, since she says she no longer has it.

As far as self care, that is one thing I’ve leaned through all of this.  I go to the gym, bike, go on walks, read, and go out with friends when possible.  I haven’t tried going to Al-Anon, because DD hasn’t had substance issues, so I didn’t know if that was appropriate.   

I think I need to add Loving Someone with Borderline to my reading list.  I read many books at the beginning of this process, but came to a point where I felt burned out. I needed to take a break, focus on what I had learned, and try to practise my own skills. 

This week is DD’s reading week.  We are anticipating it will be challenging.  She has not lived here for 2 years.  She moved out suddenly, with no warning, at 18.  Her brother has mentioned before that it is much calmer now that she doesn’t live here.  We have already seen things just this weekend that remind us of how it was before...DD putting blame on others for even minor issues, making excuses for why she can’t do things, wanting things done her way.  Some interesting conversations have come up too, about her old friends.  She, like many others with BPD, has difficulty maintaining friendships.  This weekend she referred to all of these people as cutting her off, or blocking her on social media.  She says she doesn’t know why they did this.  I asked her if she’d like to try to reconnect with them. She said no, it was their choice and she doesn’t know why.  My strategy for this week is to give myself space from her when I need it.  Last night I went upstairs to “fold laundry”, and watched tv alone for a while.  Protect my peace, that’s my goal!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

I pretty much get daily calls.

SD22 calls her dad daily too. Sometimes twice a day. And texts every day without pause. The calls are often 30 to 45 minutes.

She graduated college   and started her first job this fall. Every step of the way felt like the end of the world to her and I'm beginning to realize she is so much more resilient than me when it comes to tolerating her own profound anxiety. I wouldn't want to feel such acute anxiety myself -- she seems to be able to tolerate that level of distress even if it seems like her world is crashing down on her head. It's a different kind of resilience.

She had two therapists during college and a psychiatrist, called the suicide hotline number regularly (according to one of her therapists), used an online chat support, and from what other family members report, she blew up their phones so much they started to block her.

I’m trying to gently wean her off a bit.  It can be very draining to have 45 + minute calls when she is cycling.  I try to be reassuring like it sounds like you do, telling her she can do it, to use her tools etc.

Would you be able to tell her at the beginning of the call, "Hi honey. I'm making dinner and will have to tend to it soon, but I want to hear how your day was and have five minutes before I go."

H has started to do that with SD22. She will inevitably try to keep him on the phone and he gently goes back to his original statement, "That's a great question, let's talk tomorrow when I'm not standing by a hot stove and need my hands free." He knows it will take an attempt or two to bring the conversation to an end. Sometimes he suggests she write down how she's feeling or suggests some kind of DBT skill (without calling it that), like looking at pictures of puppies online  

Protect my peace, that’s my goal!

 

When SD22 lived here, I first felt guilty about taking care of my needs when hers seemed so profound. I learned that I am better for SD22 when my cup of compassion is full to the brim. Anything less and I feel short-tempered and resentful, which someone with BPD is certain to sense. The time you spend filling your cup is healthy for you and for her. She won't learn how to self-soothe if you're always there, and you have to have time to be the loving mom you are.

With SD22, I think of myself as a caring coach. She goes from crisis to crisis, some of it perceived, some of it real. I do nothing for her anymore. My go-to is to ask validating questions and to be stumped with her, gently noticing that she seems to have good instincts about what she needs to do, or already did when something similar happened in the past.

Some of this comes down to radical acceptance too. SD22 may not change. This might be how she goes through life. It can be both painful and freeing to realize. SD22 has a team of support and family members who care, and while that isn't nothing, it's still not enough. Not yet. She may change and she might not. It is better for me if I assume that this is who she is. Once I got there, I felt it was easier to take care of myself because it demarcated the limits so much more clearly.

Also, your DD went back to school  

She will probably come close to this same point again and now you have a touchpoint for what she can do when it feels like the walls are closing in.

[PeaceMom]

This is a validating thread in that most 18-20 yr old’s lack insight, add in the intense shame of BPD and they will reject being vulnerable in T. So that leaves mainly mom as the #1 support.  What a huge daunting burden on us. I vacillate between extreme self care (almost at a narcissistic level), to daily obligations in a family of 6, to being makeshift T for DD.

A very strange existence, indeed. WDx your hindsight sharing is so valuable here. Thanks for confirming how your DD remembers mind set at age 18.

I though DD was going to call the T I found after her city jail incident this week, but she said “mom a T is gonna try to change me and I can’t change myself so I just have to figure out on my own to stop all these problems. Many of them when I was t even doing anything wrong or crazy”. She’s correct about that and Dr. Manning addresses this in her book, as well .

LNL, it sounds like you’ve come to see that your SD even having a hub of therapeutic type support surrounding her hasn’t changed things drastically. It makes me think I’m hanging my hope in unrealistic expectations in that regard.

I’ve often believed that if DD had a “good enough” T, fairly functional good friends, a few older mentors, the DBT workbook and an online support group, she would feel true support and be less impulsive and use Wisemind. Maybe not!
I’ve not seen any online support groups listed here for the BPD. Is there a list?

Thanks for this helpful thread.
Peacemom

[livednlearned]

LNL, it sounds like you’ve come to see that your SD even having a hub of therapeutic type support surrounding her hasn’t changed things drastically.

There is no question she would be worse without therapy! I only meant to imply that her therapy isn't meeting my expectations. SD22 experienced a psychotic depression when she was in her teens -- that's the crisis that got her into therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. Her official dx is bipolar although from what little we gather through professionals, they are encouraging her to reconsider the dx. SD22 is resisting. My T suspects that SD22 wants to be bipolar because then she isn't like her mom, who almost certainly has BPD.

For me, it comes back to be the emotional regulator for SD22 when she's around. The gravitational pull to enter her black hole of anxiety is profound. I had to develop profound resistance in order to stay grounded and even though she seems to be irritated by it, she also seems to be able to return to baseline faster than I otherwise thought she could.

I'm not her biological mom and I suspect the extra space inherent in being her step mom makes it easier for me (and harder for her in some ways). I see H struggling more with his role as primary support. He is also more easily manipulated 

[twocrazycats]

CC...our daughters sound very similar.  How often does your call you?  I pretty much get daily calls.  I’m trying to gently wean her off a bit.  It can be very draining to have 45 + minute calls when she is cycling.  I try to be reassuring like it sounds like you do, telling her she can do it, to use her tools etc.



As far as self care, that is one thing I’ve leaned through all of this.  I go to the gym, bike, go on walks, read, and go out with friends when possible.  I haven’t tried going to Al-Anon, because DD hasn’t had substance issues, so I didn’t know if that was appropriate.   

I think I need to add Loving Someone with Borderline to my reading list. 

 Protect my peace, that’s my goal!

My dd calls every couple of days. More frequently when she's in a crisis, such as a major exam that is causing her to panic. It's either crisis, "I can't do this," or "Hi, everything's fine!" and she's sounding slightly manic. I actually prefer the crisis mode, as it's easier to have a conversation with her at those times. That sounds horrible. I don't want her to be in crisis, I just find it's easier to talk to her then. I can't talk to the mania. Every day does sound like a lot. Also, my dd doesn't talk that long when she does call.

I do go to Al-Anon, and I'm loving it. My dd doesn't seem to have much of a problem with substance abuse, as far as I know, but there was some over the summer, and my T at the time suggested Al-Anon. Also, I was in a 10 year relationship many years ago with an alcoholic, and had gone to Al-Anon back then and loved it. It really helped me put my life back together. So, even though the situation is very different now and I wondered if I would be welcome, I do feel very welcome there.

Protect my peace-- I love that. It's my goal too.
CC