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Author Topic: Conflict over elementary age girls closet  (Read 780 times)
formflier
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« on: October 11, 2019, 08:46:22 AM »


Most likely a proxy conflict for other things.

I'm not the best at picking and sorting girls clothes.   

So, I do laundry and then leave clean clothes in baskets in the girls room.  D14 and/or my wife then match outfits and hang them up.  (or this used to be how it happens)

Last night my wife dumped out a couple baskets, stomped around the house looking for her phone to take a picture then calmed down. Oh..tossed the baskets from the 2nd story to the first floor (no damage done but was loud).

Earlier in the day I went over concerning MRI results (mine) with her.  ("severe stenosis" in several places in my cervical spine)

So...that could be part.

Anyway.  My to do list for the weekend had corralling my daughter and having her teach me/help me put all these clothes up.  (this was before last night)

It's very likely "it won't be done right".  (according to my wife)

My gut says press ahead and get it done.  This is a repetitive issue that comes up every month or two. 

Thoughts?  I'm probably overthinking this..

Best,

FF
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2019, 10:16:23 AM »

*My gut says press ahead and get it done.  

*It's very likely "it won't be done right".  (according to my wife)

*This is a repetitive issue that comes up every month or two.

Formflier,

I've been listening to some things on the "radio" lately, and your post remined me of these exerts from the "radio".

*What do we know of borderline, perhaps 'to the right of center (spectrum) borderline"…

*Well, there may be some npd (narcissism) traits in there…


I've read many of your posts, about how you and Mrs. FF interact in regards to carrying out the plan of the day…

What is the trend… Mrs. FF seems to always find fault, she is always (imho) telling you that you are "doing it wrong", "not listening to her", "disregarding her opinion, intents"… on and on…

So basically, Mrs. FF, when she is up a tree, or in a "mood", (bpd'ism)… you are not going to get a free hall pass, you are going to be wrong, in her sight(s)… "her feelings are her reality (facts)"… every time… yes(?),

There will be a few days, a week or so, that you two will go back and forth about whatever, a pantry remodel, laundry procedures… a car repair, where, when and with whom the children may go… Foo issues… etc' etc' etc'… seems she will have a little "extinction burst" now and again… but in the end, you make the repairs, refit the pantry, get the kids where they need to go etc'… you "chive on"… a  little "push & pull"… she may scoff a little, give you the 'stern look'… perhaps a little ST for good measure… but in the end, its "smooths out"… even if there are no conversations / closure in regards to the issue…

I think… you should take the lead,
Excerpt
Anyway.  My to do list for the weekend had corralling my daughter and having her teach me/help me put all these clothes up...  (this was before last night)

I liken this to driving in heavy traffic, or perhaps flying aircraft in formation at night… if you "start to execute a maneuver"… don't stop half way through… because if you do, someone else in front of you, or behind you in traffic, or the other aircraft in the formation will now be reacting to your maneuver… so if you stop, and reverse… mayhem could result… so no, (driving) if you start make a lane change, complete with blinker lights… follow on through with it, and then take your new position in the traffic pattern… if you don't, you may cause someone else to make an irreversible "wrong maneuver"… and calamity may result…

Mrs. FF will most likely give you the "what for"… but continue on, spend some daughter time, and learn how to segregate, sort, and stow her clean clothes with her…

… my 2 cents : )

Kind Regards, Red5

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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 10:34:18 AM »

I'd reorganise her whole wardrobe with her, clean out all the drawers and desk and clean her entire room with her... but that's just me... oh and i have done this several times with my girls and we get rid of a ton of junk. They appreciate it, i enjoy tidying, W hates the fact we completed the task efficiently and comprehensively.

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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2019, 06:57:04 PM »

Sorry about your MRI results. I would bet that’s what her emotional response was about. She can pretend you don’t have a service related disability, but when presented with evidence, then her narrative falls apart.

I’d just do the organizing with your daughter and make it a fun dad and daughter activity and ignore the grumpy response from your wife.
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2019, 08:32:46 PM »

I second everyone else... focus on your daughter. I don't have kids but I know I would've loved my dad to help me with these things regardless of what my momw as like (pretty sure she was a UBPD). My dad was somewhat o f a uNPD but after he died the best memories I have of him and I are doing homework together and singing our (his) fav tunes together LOL. I say his cause they just happened to be mine as well... Smiling (click to insert in post) these are the memories I remember after him passing... and it will most likely be the memories your D will hold with you. Smiling (click to insert in post) See it as a bonding moment.
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2019, 12:47:57 PM »


Closet/room is about 95% organized.  Me and three girls "locked" in room on a Friday and "no fun" until the work was all done.

We mostly had fun getting it done.  The remaining 5% are outfits or things that might need a match or D14 wasn't totally sure what "the plan" was for the outfit.

My wife really didn't have much to say either way. 

Best,

FF
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2019, 01:02:28 AM »

Top work FF
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2019, 03:07:50 AM »

Does your wife create drama to get you to do things- that she either doesn't feel confident she can do or out of some emotional need to have you do things for her?

My BPD mother does this. She is lower functioning than your wife, but wants to appear higher functioning. She would accuse us, act out when she wants something done, but not admit to it. Then, we would do it.

My H doesn't like confrontation with the kids. But he would not admit to his feelings. So instead, he might come after me, angry that I didn't do something. Confused, I would then do it- like get the kids to clean up their rooms or something he didn't want to do.

Underneath this behavior is an emotional need, but the person doesn't want to admit to it, or ask for it, so they approach it with anger and accusations. With my H, I think this comes from being shamed and ridiculed as a kid by his critical father if he expressed his feelings directly. With BPD mom, it's more complicated. She has a huge need for emotional caretaking and control and manipulates people do do things for her rather than to ask directly. This is how she gets this need met.

When this sort of thing happens- when I feel I am being asked indirectly to do something, it feels odd. I feel manipulated. I don't mind doing things. I've spent time organizing things with the kids and enjoy it. I just would prefer to be asked directly.

Does your wife want to be the good guy and not confront the kids? Was this how she got you to do that?

From the dad perspective, this is great that you did this. I think all kids need their fathers in a special way, and  when you show your girls you care like this and spend time with them, it makes a difference.
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2019, 05:02:15 AM »

I hope this is along the same theme...

I was talking to my Mum last night about this very topic. It's a bit of a circular situation in our house...

Everything and anything which isn't absolutely pleasurable has to be grumbled about by W. Typically grumbling = general stress, moodiness, talk of not enough time, talk of too busy, talk of other people (me) not doing enough to help, and generally creating an unpleasant atmosphere.

Over time I adopted a large range of tasks in an attempt to cease bad atmosphere e.g. cooking, cleaning, washing etc. Unfortunately me completing these tasks competently leaves W feeling bad that she hasn't fulfilled her duties as a mother. Which I guess makes her feel guilt and shame... the guilt and shame is attributable to me and I caused the bad feelings in her.

This weekends example was me cooking 2 meals which the kids LOVED and raved on and on about it. I was almost willing the kids to stop saying how much they liked the meals I'd cooked from scratch because I sensed how much my W's shame'dar was hitting nuclear meltdown level. The high/low point was when D9 and D11 said "this is my favourite meal EVER!" I was thinking ohhhhhh  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) this is going to go very badly. I can usually tell her shame is ramping up because she starts knit picking at the food suggesting it's either not cooked through or there is something non-specifically odd about it. I feel punished for my own competence... but the double-blind is enduring a toxic atmosphere of her doing these things if I get out the way.

General agg and stress is a great way to subliminally get people to do things you don't enjoy... which is great unless you then feel ashamed that someone did it competently.

Enabler   
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2019, 06:22:19 AM »


So, there are "core arguments" or perhaps even "approaches to parenting" going on here.

I am "way over" on the "teach them to fish" side of things and my wife seems to have moved over to "do things for them".  (perhaps she realizes it is quicker for her/me to do things rather than teach, which does take longer).

I'm pretty sure my wife is the one that shifted...bigtime...because D14 was telling the girls they should consider themselves lucky, because when she was in elementary, she was responsible for doing her room all by herself, with minimal parental involvement.  (that's how I remember it too)

There is also this "FF isn't doing what he should" thought floating around.



Here is how it played out.  

When talking about organizing horse lessons, there was a thought that on Fridays "the girls" (youngest two) would get their lessons from our oldest daughter and then be dropped off for time with grandparents.  

I agreed to this as long as we added "and also they check their room before going to grandparent time" and if it's not "inspection ready" (which would include clothes picked up), they stay on that task until it's done.  (no time limit..they figure it out).

The pressure relief valve popped and she complained about "the clothes building up" and "that shouldn't happen".  I listened, no jade and even agreed with her, it shouldn't happen "and isn't it wise to put things in place to make sure it doesn't happen".

I was in the mode of agreeing with her 100% "and also" adding a nudge in the right direction.

Well, for now it's agreed to.  Much of "the problem" is that during the week my wife wants to focus on "doing fun things" rather than letting them take the time to straighten up.

I'm not going to "be the hammer" to enforce it, since I don't care that much one way or another.  It just needs to eventually get done.

I'm not sure of a way to explain this (I have before and to my wife, it sounds like blame, where I would say its responsibility for decisions)

Anyway...just peeked in the room and it's in good shape.  We go on fall break this weekend, so having things stowed properly will help with packing and leaving on time.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2019, 06:42:58 AM »

Enabler - you have brought up an interesting paradox. If we take on most tasks with the intent of reducing someone’s discomfort - we rob them of a sense of purpose or accomplishment and they are less happy.

I learned this at a fairly young age watching my parents. My father wanted to free my mother of any discomfort and so she didn’t have any demands or responsibilities. She could do whatever she wanted everyday. You think she’d think she had it made but compared to my friend’s mothers - who did things around the house - she was miserable. I learned that I didn’t want to be like that. Not that I love household chides but I realized it is also good to be responsible.

My BPD mother doesn’t have the pride of feeling competent. She isn’t confident as a cook - she didn’t have to cook. Most of us were not born as good cooks. We learn to cook well through practice.

I’m not surprised that the more you do, the more malaise your wife has. A child might not want to do their homework or clean their room. We know ii isn’t good for them if we do it for them. I think it works this way with adults too.
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2019, 11:07:03 AM »

Yes indeed, Notwendy, it works that way for adults too!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I’ve mentioned that I’m the handywoman here and my husband often doesn’t have a clue about fixing things.

I used to just do it myself when he told me that something broke. Now, I support and am a resource person, but when he informs me that something broke, he fixes it if possible or we do it together.

So far, he’s fixed the lawnmower, with me helping by showing him where he could order the part online. And same with the gas burners on the barbecue.

It’s building his confidence. Until he lived with me, he never got his hands dirty or did heavy physical work outdoors. He still isn’t a fan, but he’s less intimidated.

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