Custody mediation coming up soon - What to expect?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So after 6 months of separation from my uBPDw, we have a court appointed custody mediation in two weeks.  I have never been involved in anything court related other than jury selection but I know this is not a court hearing, just an intervention of sorts.

Hoping to get some advice, predictions, and other thoughts from folks who've been through this. 

Here is my current situation:

- I'm a 46 yr old retired navy officer, working from home, have performed nearly all parental duties for past 18 months while wife took college classes.
- wife has been seeing psychiatrists for entire adult life, heavily prescribed, but usually hoards the pills (zoloft, klonopan, lorazepam, etc)
- wife is an alcoholic, has crashed truck into house 3 times while returning from late night beer runs, Insurance claim filed on one instance.  Wife admitted the accidents in sworn documents, denied drinking.
- wife is on 1 year probation for a felony handgun violation (committed in NJ, we live in NC).
- after 19 yrs marriage, wife hits me with divorce, claimed she had a lawyer and papers filed.
- left the family home and the kids (now ages 13d, 18s), took the truck, the dog, moved in with friends, later rented house.
- believing she has a lawyer, I hire one as well.
- my lawyer finds out wife actually had no lawyer yet, it was all a lie.  My lawyer files divorce suit first.  Wife finally gets a lawyer.
- 60 days later we get wife's separation proposal, asks for joint custody but the kids stay with me. Also asks for a check for $1/4 million. I've never seen that much cash, we do not respond to proposal.
- wife goes entire summer making no attempt to see either of the kids, including on their 13th and 18th birthdays.
- daughter finally gets to spend a few nights at mom's, mom drinks to the point of passing out, but not before telling daughter she "never wanted her in the first place".
- wife has been guilting the kids to get me to give her more money, I'd already given her $10K cash and the truck title.
- wife left the state on false pretenses (lied to her probation officer), says she will be back on the 27th, out mediation is on the 24th.  I have no idea if she will even show up, or if she will Skype in or something.

We currently live in NC, I plan to move to TN wife daughter once divorce is final, wife plans on moving to TX to live with her widowed father.

I intend to ask for sole custody of our daughter with no unsupervised visitation until wife gets psych eval (which I will offer to pay for) and enters alcohol treatment program.  I am pretty certain she will agree to neither.

Am I asking too much? 
Too severe on the visitation?

-I do not believe she wants our 13d but she may be figuring out that no custody means no more money.
-4 days later, her lawyer has us in court for separate maintenance and alimony hearing.  Looks like she'll been town for that one.

[Eggshellsbroken]

So after 6 months of separation from my uBPDw, we have a court appointed custody mediation in two weeks.  I have never been involved in anything court related other than jury selection but I know this is not a court hearing, just an intervention of sorts.

Hoping to get some advice, predictions, and other thoughts from folks who've been through this. 

Here is my current situation:

- I'm a 46 yr old retired navy officer, working from home, have performed nearly all parental duties for past 18 months while wife took college classes.
- wife has been seeing psychiatrists for entire adult life, heavily prescribed, but usually hoards the pills (zoloft, klonopan, lorazepam, etc)
- wife is an alcoholic, has crashed truck into house 3 times while returning from late night beer runs, Insurance claim filed on one instance.  Wife admitted the accidents in sworn documents, denied drinking.
- wife is on 1 year probation for a felony handgun violation (committed in NJ, we live in NC).
- after 19 yrs marriage, wife hits me with divorce, claimed she had a lawyer and papers filed.
- left the family home and the kids (now ages 13d, 18s), took the truck, the dog, moved in with friends, later rented house.
- believing she has a lawyer, I hire one as well.
- my lawyer finds out wife actually had no lawyer yet, it was all a lie.  My lawyer files divorce suit first.  Wife finally gets a lawyer.
- 60 days later we get wife's separation proposal, asks for joint custody but the kids stay with me. Also asks for a check for $1/4 million. I've never seen that much cash, we do not respond to proposal.
- wife goes entire summer making no attempt to see either of the kids, including on their 13th and 18th birthdays.
- daughter finally gets to spend a few nights at mom's, mom drinks to the point of passing out, but not before telling daughter she "never wanted her in the first place".
- wife has been guilting the kids to get me to give her more money, I'd already given her $10K cash and the truck title.
- wife left the state on false pretenses (lied to her probation officer), says she will be back on the 27th, out mediation is on the 24th.  I have no idea if she will even show up, or if she will Skype in or something.

We currently live in NC, I plan to move to TN wife daughter once divorce is final, wife plans on moving to TX to live with her widowed father.

I intend to ask for sole custody of our daughter with no unsupervised visitation until wife gets psych eval (which I will offer to pay for) and enters alcohol treatment program.  I am pretty certain she will agree to neither.

Am I asking too much? 
Too severe on the visitation?

-I do not believe she wants our 13d but she may be figuring out that no custody means no more money.
-4 days later, her lawyer has us in court for separate maintenance and alimony hearing.  Looks like she'll been town for that one.

[worriedStepmom]

I don't live in NC, so the way we do things may not match how they do it there.  In our custody mediations, they put each parent in a separate room (with their lawyer, if they have one), and the mediator goes back and forth.  The mediator is usually a lawyer in the area who not only knows what is legal but also knows what judges are most likely going to allow if it went to trial. Our mediator couldn't make decisions for us and they didn't really care about our reasons except as ways to find a deal.  Set up that way, there would be no way to get sole custody and supervised visitation unless mom agreed.

I think you are right to ask for sole custody and supervised.  Your daughter isn't safe with her.  That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for mediation, though, so be prepared that it won't work and you'll have to go to trial. When my H went to court to get primary custody of his daughter, he waived child support in part to get his ex to sign the agreement without having a trial.  So that might be an option for you.

[Eggshellsbroken]

Thank you worriedstepmom. Our mediation here doesn’t allow for anyone else to be present unfortunately. No lawyers. But that’s a good idea about waving child support as a carrot.

[ForeverDad]

Many initial mediation attempts, generally required as an early step in most courts, fail since our disordered spouses typically are too entitled and controlling to reasonably negotiate.

Although she is focused on $$$, demands are always on the high side.  Don't feel intimidated on her initial terms, that's predictable.  Probably her lawyer has informed her she has little ability to demand much in the way of parenting and custody.  Still, sole custody is hard to get in courts.

As a backup strategy, ask your lawyer if the courts will let you combine joint custody (for major decisions such as school, religion, medical, etc) with Decision Making  or Tie Breaker status.  What that does is put you in charge of custody even if not named so.

[Eggshellsbroken]

thank you foreverdad.  I'm thinking I should start high, with sole custody, and work some financial interest for her into it.  I could work down from there to joint but domiciled with me, which is what she requested in the separation proposal. 

She's entitled to about a third of my military pension for life, I could demand that as child support, but work back towards just letting her have it in exchange for not fighting sole custody.

[Deb]

When my SD had mediation in NC with her dPD'd ex, using things I learned here,   I advised her to come prepared with solutions.  To make sure the mediator saw her as the reasonable one, with their child's best interest at heart. She was prepared to start with every other weekend and if her child was comfortable,  two weeks in the summer.  He came in and announced he wanted joint custody, week on and week off, with 2 months in the summer. When the mediator asked how that would work during the school year since he lived in another state, he said child could go to school one week in his state and one in mom's state.

My point is,  be seen as the one who has the child's best interests at heart. The one who is reasonable.  The one who comes up with solutions to problems.

[Eggshellsbroken]

thank you Deb, I would imagine the husband's school idea painted a clear picture to the mediator.

[Deb]

Yes it did. And he didn't impress the judge either. I'm not going into his testimony but OMG! He did not help himself at all.

[livednlearned]

She's entitled to about a third of my military pension for life, I could demand that as child support, but work back towards just letting her have it in exchange for not fighting sole custody.

My ex tried to mix child support with custody negotiations but apparently it is not considered ethical to do so. That might be why the two mediations are separate. By ethical, I mean legally ethical. As in lawyers in good standing will not negotiate on those points. Doesn't mean you won't get what you want, just that you might not be able to use money to influence custody.

I'm in the same state as you. Lawyers were present in our mediation. We were in separate rooms and a mediator (lawyer) went back and forth. Maybe different counties handle it different.

If I did it over again, I would throw down my bottom line within the first fifteen minutes. If ex couldn't agree, I would terminate mediation and prepare to go to trial.

Your wife sounds like she's in a dysregulation and is spiraling downward. Do you think she's in a state to be able to self-organize enough to handle going to court? If her lawyer discovers what you've shared with us, he or she may nudge your wife to settle for what you offer in order to avoid court.

I would treat mediation as a form of leverage and be willing to walk out. Not to mention it's cheaper than trying to negotiate all day with someone who will likely be dysregulating and struggle to keep things straight.

[MeandThee29]

If I did it over again, I would throw down my bottom line within the first fifteen minutes. If ex couldn't agree, I would terminate mediation and prepare to go to trial.

Your wife sounds like she's in a dysregulation and is spiraling downward. Do you think she's in a state to be able to self-organize enough to handle going to court? If her lawyer discovers what you've shared with us, he or she may nudge your wife to settle for what you offer in order to avoid court.

I would treat mediation as a form of leverage and be willing to walk out. Not to mention it's cheaper than trying to negotiate all day with someone who will likely be dysregulating and struggle to keep things straight.

My lawyer didn't recommend mediation for some reasons specific to my case, but when he does mediation, he always has a strategy and sets criteria with his clients as to when they are going to walk out. In my state, the two people also sit in separate rooms with their lawyer, and the mediator goes between for most of it. The goal of mediation is to solve things. If you aren't solving things, it's over. He doesn't see any reason to run up his client's bill if it's a waste of time.

In my case, there's really only one major issue left in the lawyer-to-lawyer negotiations. At least litigating just one issue is better than litigating everything. No custody issues.

So you might at least get some issues resolved in mediation that would reduce your litigation costs. And of course some people give in literally on the courthouse steps. You might not even end up in court.

[Eggshellsbroken]

While I once thought that our separation could lead to her getting a better grip on life, seems the opposite is happening.  Her distancing from our 13d is also getting worse.   My 18s just received a bracelet gift from her in the mail a couple days ago with a nice love note included.  She has sent nothing to our 13d.

I believe she doesn't even know about the custody mediation.  The initial paperwork for it was sent directly to me, my lawyer didn't get a copy until I have it to her.  If the same thing happened to my uBPDx, she may have never opened the mail and her lawyer didn't get it either.

Her flight back to NC is 3 days afterwards, but the day before the hearing for alimony. 

I am very certain of one thing, she gets nauseous at the thought of appearing in court.  I took her to traffic court once when she ran a red light and hit another driver while talking on her cell phone.  She literally vomited outside the courthouse after it was over and all she had to do was plead guilty and pay a fine.

[mart555]

I don't see this custody battle as being really difficult..  the 18yo can decide.  As for the 13 year old, I assume that she doesn't want to go live there?  Make sure that her voice is heard...

I used to think "oh no it has to be 50-50 no matter what, it's better for the kids". I've changed over time.  Remember: kids first.  What would be best for them?  It will likely suck for the mom but hey, it's her behavior that's pushing people away.   

[MeandThee29]

While I once thought that our separation could lead to her getting a better grip on life, seems the opposite is happening.  Her distancing from our 13d is also getting worse.   My 18s just received a bracelet gift from her in the mail a couple days ago with a nice love note included.  She has sent nothing to our 13d.

I believe she doesn't even know about the custody mediation.  The initial paperwork for it was sent directly to me, my lawyer didn't get a copy until I have it to her.  If the same thing happened to my uBPDx, she may have never opened the mail and her lawyer didn't get it either.

Her flight back to NC is 3 days afterwards, but the day before the hearing for alimony. 

I am very certain of one thing, she gets nauseous at the thought of appearing in court.  I took her to traffic court once when she ran a red light and hit another driver while talking on her cell phone.  She literally vomited outside the courthouse after it was over and all she had to do was plead guilty and pay a fine.

It could be interesting. A friend of mine's disordered husband was a no-show, claimed to be sick despite looking perfectly healthy, etc. etc. That was true for both mediation and court. A grown man with a professional career. She's weighing now whether to go for custody modification because there's been some very disturbing behavior lately.

Not sounding too cynical, but my lawyer once observed that divorcing a disordered spouse almost always stretches it out and leads to odd twists and turns. Don't I know.

[livednlearned]

For a lot of us, our hearts break for our kids. We want to give our disordered ex every chance to pull it together so our kids don't hurt.

It may not be obvious to them now, but they have a mom who is very ill and her behavior is abusive and neglectful. Her illness makes it so she can barely take care of herself. The kids are learning that they don't have a mom who can show up -- she's failing to be the parent they need.

That painful truth is a hard one and it's a process that is hard to bear witness to as a loving parent. My son's T said that S18 knows his dad cannot be fixed, and T states this is better than hoping his dad will change. Instead of trying to gain his dad's approval, he can mourn the true state of his dad's shortcomings and learn that he can survive that excruciating truth.

S18 has said to me he doesn't believe in family. What a thing to say. He followed by saying that he knows he's supposed to love people because they're family, but instead what matters to him is that they are people he trusts. It's a fine distinction. He said he trusts me, and that's more important to him than me being his mom.

Your kids may come to a similar conclusion. Their mom is someone who should model for them what love is, what family is. She can't.

It isn't easy to guide them through this truth, but it is better than encouraging them to have fantasies that she will suddenly become someone she isn't.

[worriedStepmom]

My H's ex is also terrified of court.    Last summer when H filed for primary custody, ex did not show up at the hearing.  She then told SD that she didn't attend, but blamed me (I'm scary?).  SD asked "What kind of mom doesn't fight for her kid?"  (She was in weekly therapy at this point to deal with all the crazymaking.)

This summer ex actually went to court to file a contempt motion against H...but when she got served with his response (literally 1 sentence that said he denied the allegation), she ended up in inpatient psychiatric care for a week.  When she got out and was stable, she told H she will not show up in court, period, ever.  H had filed another custody modification, and his lawyer is working on drafting a document that H thinks ex will just sign.

So be prepared with a listing of exactly what you want.  If she's that afraid of court, then there's a good chance she won't show up to the eventual hearing, and the judge will adopt your proposals.

[Eggshellsbroken]

Thank you to everyone who took time out of their day to respond to this post.  Lots of good advice.  Today I am working on drafting a parenting plan to bring with me to the custody mediation.  I purchased the package and workbooks from https://breakthroughparenting.com

I believe that showing up to mediation with plenty of well-thought out documentation and a detailed plan with contrast sharply with uBPDw failure to show up at all.

[livednlearned]

I believe that showing up to mediation with plenty of well-thought out documentation and a detailed plan with contrast sharply with uBPDw failure to show up at all.

It sounds like she won't show from what you've described, although I guess one can always be pleasantly surprised 

And if you have no Ls involved, and no judge, then all the court will see is that one party showed up and the other didn't. No?

The documentation and detailed plan will help you see reflected back what the narrative looks like to others who can influence your case. That's why we work so hard here to help each other see our cases clearly, without FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). You want your narrative to match what's happening now, versus what might happen. Or what you hope to happen. Or what she might or might not want.

What is your bottom line? The thing you will not negotiate about? You may have several.

[Eggshellsbroken]

Just wanted to bring some closure to this post. 

We finally had a custody and finance mediation last week with me and my lawyer in one room, her and hers in another.  Coming in the door, my lawyer tells me "according to her lawyer we won't have a fight about custody."  She didn't even ask for it. 

I came prepared with my 5-page parenting plan that I worked on for days.  It started out with all the niceties about how we should treat each other and communicate, but then stated that there would be no more overnight visitation with her until she submitted to a psychological evaluation and entered into a 12-step program for alcohol dependancy.  When the mediator left our room with that plan and went to hers, I could the screaming from down the hall, "I'm not crazy!".

So out the window went that parenting plan.  But it turns out, it was a great thing because the mention of psych eval triggered her so severely that both the mediator and her lawyer got to see her rage in person. 

In the end, my lawyer offered up a small lump sum (enough to pay her legal fees) and alimony for a year.  She gave up any claim to the house, my business, and is only entitled to see our D13 twice a year since we will be moving to different states.  I honestly believe those visits won't even happen.  She has alienated herself so badly from D13 and S18 that they rarely talk to her anymore.

This is all so sad.  But in the end, I consider it a win.  Not fair that she walks away from all responsibility and still gets alimony but I know this could have gone so much worse.

The kids will continue to see their therapist which has been tremendously beneficial and I am starting with a new therapist next week.  Someone who specializes in "victims" of BPD relationships. 

Thank you all again for your comments and advice.

[worriedStepmom]

Yay!

That sounds like the best of all possible outcomes.  Your kids are protected, and you were spared a long, drawn-out court battle.

[mart555]

In the end, my lawyer offered up a small lump sum (enough to pay her legal fees) and alimony for a year.  She gave up any claim to the house, my business, and is only entitled to see our D13 twice a year since we will be moving to different states.  I honestly believe those visits won't even happen.  She has alienated herself so badly from D13 and S18 that they rarely talk to her anymore.

This is all so sad.  But in the end, I consider it a win.  Not fair that she walks away from all responsibility and still gets alimony but I know this could have gone so much worse.

Was any of this signed by the judge?  Chances are she'll change her mind within a week otherwise, once she goes from victim to avenger..

The self-alienation, giving custody, this is what what my ex has said a few times but changed her mind the week after.  And  paying alimony, .. seems like this is what I'm getting into because of the judges up here that pretty much give it away like candy.  

[GaGrl]

I am trained for mediation, although I used it only in Corporate HR situations (ugh).

In most states, once each party has signed the mediation agreement, it is a final agreement, and the lawyer(s) prepare the final filing for the court.

There also can be a partial agreement coming out of mediation. A couple might agree on a financial settlement in mediation but not agree on child custody. In that case, custody could go to trial as the stand-alone issue.

[mart555]

I am trained for mediation, although I used it only in Corporate HR situations (ugh).

Must feel like a walk in the park compared to divorcing a BPD!   

[GaGrl]

Must feel like a walk in the park compared to divorcing a BPD!   

Don't you know it!

However, when I reconnected with my now-DH, he had been long separated from his then-wife, the uBPD/NPD. They had separate houses, businesses, she had a long-term live-in boyfriend. She had offered divorce if he wanted it.

So he filed, thinking it would be an easy no-fault divorce. Hah!

My mediation experience really came in handy in asking him questions to focus on values/what was or was not important  to each of them, and to help him assess what to then take to his lawyer. In the end, because she is terrified of court (she had been arrested three times for DV with previous boyfriends and also had a shady business), she agreed to essentially the original proposal. But DH (rather naive) did not want to use a mallet where a tap hammer would do. It took nine months for him to get to, "Fine, we'll take it to court and let the judge decide."

I have little faith in or knowledge of successful mediation with pwPD.