Part 2:Finding SS3

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340362.30

Well, it looks like it's going to be a long time before we see SS.  The police called the judge who said she can't make the Safehouse director divulge the location.  So the police can only do something if they happen upon her on the street.  Which we know is near impossible.  Apparently, our state treats the safehouse as a protected person.  The police told H that in his 20 years working there, he has never dealt with a situation like this.  H was thinking of reaching out to cps to see if they had any suggestions or could do anything else.  It seems crazy that BPD can accuse someone of abuse and he's pretty much tried and sentenced without any proof.  I'm sure BPD isn't living the high life locked in a safe house, but she has a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear, free legal help, etc. I am a huge supporter of safe houses for people who truly need it.  But, in this example, she's just using the system.  Grrr.  And to force SS into this life when he has a nice home is so selfish.  It makes my blood boil.  

[Grady]

This thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340362.30

Well, it looks like it's going to be a long time before we see SS.  The police called the judge who said she can't make the Safehouse director divulge the location.  So the police can only do something if they happen upon her on the street.  Which we know is near impossible.  Apparently, our state treats the safehouse as a protected person.  The police told H that in his 20 years working there, he has never dealt with a situation like this.  H was thinking of reaching out to cps to see if they had any suggestions or could do anything else.  It seems crazy that BPD can accuse someone of abuse and he's pretty much tried and sentenced without any proof.  I'm sure BPD isn't living the high life locked in a safe house, but she has a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear, free legal help, etc. I am a huge supporter of safe houses for people who truly need it.  But, in this example, she's just using the system.  Grrr.  And to force SS into this life when he has a nice home is so selfish.  It makes my blood boil.  

[ForeverDad]

H is going crazy. He can’t sit still or focus on anything.

Been there, done that.  There was a 2-3 month period between my two temp orders where I was blocked from contact with my preschooler.  He had just turned 4 so was not in school.  I was so tempted to drive around looking for her vehicle.  Fortunately, no incidents.

I recall calling police asking for them to accompany me if I went to her door.  They said, get a court order first.  I then asked, what if I went anyway?  They said if she called them then they'd come rushing.  I didn't want to get arrested (!) or complicate my case further, so I kept my distance.  It was so hard but I had no other choice.

[GaGrl]

Grady, how long do you assess she can hold out without communicatio, connection, or attention from your H? Can she actually mold herself to the rules and restrictions of a safe house for any length of time?

[Grady]

Forever - I'm so sorry you went through that.  I'm sure it was beyond brutal.  But your story actually gives me hope because after years of going through this, you finally prevailed and have your kids.  It makes me feel that eventually good trumps evil. 

GaGrl - Yeah, this is surprising that she hasn't tried to reach out and break the rules.  This is the first time ever for her.  But, maybe something in her snapped or she finally realized H wasn't going to give her what she wanted so it's time to put all her eggs in option B. 

So, more happened on Friday night.  The police showed up at my house to speak to H (he was out with a friend).  They were from my county but were there on behalf of the county where the court case is.  BPD had 48 hours to contest the emergency order and that's exactly what she did.  I'm sure it was part of the tactic for the safe house director not giving the police the address.  The police told me in our county, they know the locations of all the safe houses and have a dept that only deals with family court issues.  He said they would have picked up SS but that each county is different and the other one is too small and doesn't have the manpower/experience to handle this.  He said they see this all the time.  Well, in addition to contesting the emergency order, she went to court on Friday and filed an order of protection and was granted a temporary one.  We read the statement she submitted.  She is claiming H tried to choke her and said he wanted to kill her while SS was sleeping next to her (almost three months ago and she's just reporting it now).  That is a complete lie.  H remembers the day and said they were having a verbal fight, but he never touched her or said he wanted to kill her.  It happened at H's friend's house.  H's friend, D, remembers the night as well.  D reminded H that he had SS in his room with him while they were screaming so SS wasn't around it.  Then, after the fight ended, H put SS to bed and stayed with him and BPD went and hung out with D.  She didn't have any bruising nor did she mention that anything physical happened and wasn't distraught.  H's L is going to have D testify.  In addition, D remembers a lot of other details about BPD's stay at his house which paint her in a bad light.  BPD stole D's prescription meds from him in addition to other things.  BPD also claims H left her stranded when she was camping and she fears for her safety every second of the day.  There are a lot of contradictions and lies in her statement.  L also wants to subpoena BPD's sister because of the things she said to me in writing about BPD being a liar/mentally unstable/neglectful of SS/etc.  Court is this Friday.  I don't know if L will have me come or not.  She was on the fence last time about me being there. 

Although it seems like a slam dunk case, you all know it's never that easy.  H is so stressed and freaked out about everything.  He needs to stay optimistic but is having a problem staying confident in case something happens.  His L is requesting SS be brought to the courthouse on Friday in the hopes that H will win and get to take him.  I'm not sure if that will be granted.

Never a dull moment. 

[livednlearned]

She is claiming H tried to choke her and said he wanted to kill her while SS was sleeping next to her (almost three months ago and she's just reporting it now).  That is a complete lie.  H remembers the day and said they were having a verbal fight, but he never touched her or said he wanted to kill her.  It happened at H's friend's house.  H's friend, D, remembers the night as well.  D reminded H that he had SS in his room with him while they were screaming so SS wasn't around it.  Then, after the fight ended, H put SS to bed and stayed with him and BPD went and hung out with D.  She didn't have any bruising nor did she mention that anything physical happened and wasn't distraught.  H's L is going to have D testify.  In addition, D remembers a lot of other details about BPD's stay at his house which paint her in a bad light.  BPD stole D's prescription meds from him in addition to other things.  BPD also claims H left her stranded when she was camping and she fears for her safety every second of the day.  There are a lot of contradictions and lies in her statement. 

It can be more effective to say, These allegations are false. My concern is for the well-being of SS, and that's why we're here. Mom is homeless, destitute, in need of mental health care, and experiencing cognitive distortions that have put SS in emotionally and physically unsafe situations."

Try to put the narrative back on mom instead of disputing point by point what she is alleging.

It may seem like a small thing but it's huge. Hopefully your L has experience with litigation. Not all family law attorneys do and it shows when it matters most.

[Grady]

Yes, I agree with that lnl.  I believe for the order of protection, we need to use the facts and witness to dispute her claim.  But for the custody, it will be all about her being mentally unstable/homeless/penniless/neglectful/etc.  L is planning to also subpoena her parents.  She's going to request them (and BPD's sister) to provide all text messages since August with BPD.  That definitely won't play well for her.  I'm quite nervous about this all because of the unknown.   

[ForeverDad]

Also, the lawyer should remind H that he should beware of volunteering extra information.  If it is a Yes or No query, then he should usually limit his answer to Yes or No.  Keep answers and statements simple and solely for specific purposes.  Court won't force H to testify against himself.

For example, H doesn't have to say he yelled at Ex when they were arguing.  Maybe the lawyer would prefer he can say he "explained clearly" whatever.  Her lawyer, if she has one, will try to slickly maneuver him into saying he said or did something bad.

[Grady]

Thanks. I will let him know. That makes a lot of sense. I don’t know if she had someone help her with her filings (they were all handwritten and no lawyer was mentioned) so I don’t know if she will have anyone to represent her.

[Grady]

Ugh, I feel like this nightmare isn't going to end.  Court was Friday but we didn't get too far.  BPD has a free lawyer for the order of protection but not for the custody case so we started with the order of protection.  She testified and gave all the generic coached phrases over and over again that an abused person would say.  She even told the judge she feared for her life looking in H's direction so when she was crossed by his lawyer, she looked only at the judge.  It was hard for me to watch.  We got through her testimony and H's friend D.  Then, we ran out of time (since we started so late and H's L had another case she couldn't move).  So the judge extened the order of protection until Tuesday when they can reconvene.  She refused to let H see his S this weekend as well saying it was too hard to coordinate with the safe house.  Meanwhile, the judge was totally fine with the fact that BPD was actually taking S and going to another state for her brother's wedding on Saturday.  H was allowed to have a call with S yesterday.  I wasn't home but H said the call was about 10 minutes and S said things about mommy saying he couldn't go to daddy's house anymore or see him.  S seemed very confused and refused to say he missed or loved H.  H could tell he had been coached prior to the call and BPD was with him when the call took place.  H was pretty broken after the call.  It's not suprising she did this.  It's par for the course. 

The L said she isn't going to call me to the stand because she doesn't want me to be attacked or exposed to what BPD may say or do.  It was actually quite traumatic for me to sit through Friday.  Nothing was new to me, but I think just having to relive it all in the courtroom was awful.  So, I'm not going to go on Tuesday.  Although I want to be there and be a part of it and know what's going on and show my support, I have to also look out for my mental wellbeing. 

[worriedStepmom]

I'm glad that the L is also considering your mental well-being. 

I will keep my fingers crossed that tomorrow goes well for your H.  If the order of protection is not extended, does that mean they have to turn SS over?

[GaGrl]

Will the series of texts from BPD be available on Tuesday?

[Grady]

Yes, I didn't realize it would hit me as hard as it did.  And H doesn't really understand why it was so hard on me as I knew all of this already.  But, I think it's just some ptsd rearing it's ugly head. 

Worried - I believe there are various scenarios that can happen tomorrow.  The judge could keep the order of protection for just BPD or for both of them or none of them.  I can't imagine a scenario where it's kept for SS as she didn't have any evidence of H doing any harm at all to SS.  Her only claim is that SS was asleep next to her when H "choked" her.  But H's witness said that's not true and he had SS during the alleged fight.  Assuming SS isn't part of any order of protection, the judge will need to rule if custody should go back to the temporary agreement (and schedule another hearing for content and custody modification) or if the emergency order has enough merits to continue to stand (as the other judge ruled).  I believe it will be on BPD to prove why the emergency custody isn't justified.  And without counsel, I don't know how easy it will be. 

GaGrl - Yes, the texts will be available. 

[worriedStepmom]

Yes, I didn't realize it would hit me as hard as it did.  And H doesn't really understand why it was so hard on me as I knew all of this already.  But, I think it's just some ptsd rearing it's ugly head. 

You've been keeping it together for everyone.  It's extremely important that you also take care of your own mental and emotional health.

[Grady]

Yes, I know.  Easier said than done as I know you know well.  And H isn't able to be there for me as I need him to as he's dealing with his own emotions.  H always felt she would never...to him.  He was the exception.  Turns out he is just like everyone else.  And that's a hard pill to swallow.  He was shot out of a cannon from the FOG so he's still adjusting a lot.  So, I need to work on myself and my well being.  I met a friend for drinks on Friday and he asked what I am doing for myself and I didn't have an answer.  My life revolves around doing everything for everyone else.  So I need to find more time to do things for me.

[ForeverDad]

I too was the final enemy declared by my spouse.  First it was my family, then mutual friends, then finally me.  Yet we had been married for some 15 years, had seen a reproductive specialist in order to conceive a child.  When someone is deep into acting-out PD territory, even the impossible (close relationships becoming virtual enemies) can happen.

My then-separated spouse had filed for protection in family court — trying to counter my protection granted in municipal court — and included our son.  That got CPS involved but the investigator stood up at the required subsequent hearing and stated he had "no concerns" about my parenting.  So the court excluded our son from her petition and set up a temp order for custody and parenting schedule.  Of course mother got temp custody, the default outcome, and I got alternate weekends and 3 hour evening in between, also typical default outcome.  Meanwhile, my case in municipal court and her case in family court continued on for a few more months before the adult matters were eventually dismissed.

Your case is a bit different, the parents are already divorced.  So this is largely about custody and parenting changes.  If she can't document a reason for why he shouldn't have contact with his child — substantive child abuse, neglect or endangerment — then court ought to drop that aspect of her complaint.  And courts are generally quick to separate alleged adult misbehaviors from parenting misbehaviors or risks.  So her claim she felt threatened while the child was nearby is an adult-adult matter, not a parent-child matter.

Hopefully that is how it will turn out, that court sees her claims as unsubstantiated and allows the other court's order to proceed.  Sadly, with our cases, nothing is guaranteed.

[Grady]

Ugh, so I don't quite understand what is going since I'm not at the courthouse, but apparently, his L came in there ready to fight and then they met with the judge and she felt the judge was extremely biased towards BPD and so his L freaked out.  The L and the mediator then pressured H to accept a settlement for now...both BPD and H will have orders of protection against each other so neither can contact the other.  SS is not on either of the orders.  They will go back to the temporary custody agreement where H gets 30% and will have an expedited custody modification in six weeks.  H will need to drive over an hour each way to get SS and bring him back from a hospital.  He won't get back any of the time he lost and I assume won't have him for Thanksgiving.  BPD's stay is getting extended at the safehouse.  H never got to testify or share his side.  He didn't want to agree to this, but he said they didn't really give him a choice. 

Forever - You are so right.  Nothing with the courts is guaranteed.  I just feel like evil gets to prevail.  I mean I know BPD is living in a safe house and is broke, no car, no job, nothing, but it feels like she's "winning".  After all the pain and suffering she has caused, she is able to continue to cause more with the help of the people who are supposed to help the innocent.  I am so frustrated.  I mean I guess I should be happy that we at least will have SS 30% of the time, but grrr...

[worriedStepmom]

It's a start.  Not a perfect one, but a start.

If/when ex refuses to comply with the order, that's more evidence for the custody case.

[Grady]

That's true.  I need to focus on that Worried.  When H tried to say he needed to get SS by a certain time tomorrow so he could get him to SS's first dentist appointment, BPD said "I don't give a F*** about him going to the dentist.  Luckily, I was able to push the appointment back a little bit so he can hopefully make it there in time.  He's almost four and has never been.  Come on...I also said we can finally get him the flu shot.  H said he is going to hate us.  But, you know what?  We are taking care of him. 

[worriedStepmom]

Make sure you document all of this.  You are the two who are actually taking care of S - even though you see him less often.

[Grady]

Yes, we will have it all documented.  SS did great at the dentist and was so happy to be back home (even if he's already on his way back to her now).  He said he doesn't like it there and he does nothing all day.  He definitely gained weight which we are attributing to him not being able to be physically active.  SS actually told H that he knows all of this is his mom's fault.  Ouch.  How was a 3 year old pick that up?  We saw some changes in him.  He used to always insist that someone play with him and last night he was finding things to do by himself quite a bit.  I imagine that's what he's been having to do since it's mostly just him with BPD.  He was very affectionate and asked when he can just stay with us.  H tried to explain that we had to wait to get permission.

My D14 came with H for the pick up so he wasn't alone.  Apparently, BPD walked up alone with SS and said hi to H and also waved at him (he stayed in the car).  So, the day before in court, she is terrified to look in his direction and one day later she goes alone to the drop off and looks him in the eye and waves?  Huh?  Typical playing for the audience.

[GaGrl]

Again, something to document -- even to video if possible.I

It makes me continue to wonder if she can keep away from your H, even with the custody stakes as high as they are.

[Grady]

Yes, we need to cover ourselves.  I think H gets it, but it still is going to take him a while to actually "get it".  He does think she was trying to mess with him when she waved.  He didn't fall for it or react.  When they had the exchange this morning, he said they didn't interact. 

I do think she will have a hard time following things and will try to get him to mess up first.  Yesterday, H got a call from the sheriff.  He was told BPD called them in a panic because she was "doing an update to her phone and somehow it texted H.  She didn't do it.  The phone did it automatically".  She called the sheriff because she didn't want to get in trouble.  H said he never got anything because she's blocked.  But, come on...seriously...the phone sent the text?  I have never heard that one.  How stupid does she think we all are?

[worriedStepmom]

Does her bringing S to the exchange violate the order of protection? 

She isn't supposed to be in contact with H.

[Grady]

No, they both have orders against each other, but are allowed to exchange S at the hospital where there are cameras.  They are allowed to say hello but that's it.  They are also allowed to email each other strictly about S if they need to say something about him.  But, that's pretty much just for an emergency.

[GaGrl]

I just don't see her being able to handle the restrictions on contact. She is too volatile, with a serious streak of manipulative behavior.

How did you learn she called the sheriff about the text?

Include that as part of the documentation. She can only claim so many "accidents" or slip-ups before it looks implausible.

[Grady]

Yes, she is not the most stable.  But according to the judge, she's in excellent standing at the safe house. 

The sheriff called H to let him know.  He said she's blocked so he didn't get anything. So, there is definitely a record of that.  But come on, have you ever heard of doing an update on your phone and it sending out random texts?

[GaGrl]

No, never heard of that.

If course she's in good standing at the safe house -- it's been only a short time. But how long can she hold it together there, if she hasn't held it together anywhere else?

[Grady]

Exactly.  But they extended her stay until Dec 26th.  But, what happens when she is done there and still has no job, no money, no car, etc.  Her parents will most likely her move back in with them, but she will regress into her old ways...unless she finds her next victim. 

[livednlearned]

The order of protection sets up a classic test situation -- if she can get your H to acknowledge her in spite of the PO then "he really loves me" and "I am something to someone." She has to bait. Otherwise she will feel like nothing to no one, especially herself. And the people at the safe house will be more engaged with her the more drama there is, so she'll have to manufacture something.

My SD22 does this with her dad. Sometimes I am the test ("Dad prefers LnL but he is staying on the phone with me, therefore in this moment I have value"), but even when it's not me, it's always something. Setting up tests with others, where someone has to choose her over someone or something else, is like breathing to her.

Others who have had protective orders against them on this board recommend keeping receipts and filing them in a binder. Just in case H has to prove his whereabouts. And I think I remember you saying you're in a two-party consent state? If so, it might be permissible for H to record himself. We have a member david here who does that (after being falsely accused and spending time in jail).

And the two-party consent thing might be worth breaking down into smaller bits. It might be ok to record yourself with audio if it becomes necessary to share with law enforcement (to avoid being arrested), but the audio can't be used as evidence in court. My L told me to hold my phone up as though I were recording, even if I wasn't, since it compelled n/BPDx to be on his best behavior during exchanges. Even with the hospital cameras, it might be a good idea to audio record since she is likely to say that H threatened her or something else that can't be readily disputed. Another workaround is for H to simply say to her, "My phone is recording our interaction." That might count as consent depending on the laws in your state. He is telling her what he's doing, and she consents by continuing to speak, for example.

The PO is going to be hard for SS's mom, like Gagrl mentioned. Knowing how her BPD affects her thinking can help H protect himself since there is a textbook quality to what is unfolding 

[I Am Redeemed]

This thread has reached the posting limit and is now locked. The discussion continues here:
[url]https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341149.0/url]