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Author Topic: Son seems determined to go back to jail  (Read 718 times)
FaithHopeLove
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« on: November 05, 2019, 04:32:15 PM »

Well DS who on probation  for a serious drug offense had an important appointment today to go for an intake interview at a local rehab where he could get drug treatment and help for his BPD
Did he go? No. I guess he does not want to successfully complete probation and prefers to go back to jail
 I am hurt and angry and afraid for him. But I keep telling myself that for what ever reason he is choosing this path. What now? Do I give up?
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 05:24:54 PM »

Ohh Faith,
I am devastated for you and your husband. He put so much work into trying to get him there.

You will know if its time to give up.
If its not yet time then keep trying.

The problem is they reject what and who we are so it is illogical to them to do as we do.
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 11:00:51 PM »

I'm so sorry, Faith. Give up is so permanent sounding. In Al-Anon we say one day at a time. Maybe for today, step back. And tomorrow, revisit your decision if you wish.  This must be especially difficult since it seemed hopeful for a while. Keeping you in my thoughts.

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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 02:04:37 AM »

I am thinking that the fact my H set thos rehab up may be behind DSs reluctance to go. They have been enjoying a pretty close relationship in the past few weeks but DS may still have a need to rebel and "be his own man" so to speak. What happens now I think  is his probation officer will send him to a program
 Perhaps as a more neutral party he will have a better chance getting through. If DS doesnt comply with the terms of his probation then he goes back to jail
 That will be his choice. We have done all we could
 I am just disgusted.
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 05:58:02 AM »

Hi Faith

Be gentle with yourself Faith, your husband and your son. Everybody is just doing their very best. It’s a toughie to swallow; things aren’t how you want them to be.

Excerpt
What now? Do I give up?

You already know what I’m going to say.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

You can’t change others, only yourself. I still send the odd link I about drug treatments to my son. Deep in my heart I haven’t given up the hope that he’ll be drug free one day, Old habits die hard.

Take some time to honestly reflect on your situation Faith. Think about your options, not your sons options, but your options.

I’m my opinion, this isn’t about “giving up” but more about you moving/shifting to reality. Wishing things are different is an option but not a sustainable one - it’s certainly a painful place to be.

To let go and accept  that Your son is an adult, he makes his own choices about his life and then allowing him to experience the consequences while you walk by his side is a hard path Faith but one that can be learnt.

To change our behaviours is extremely difficult as you know. I spent years enabling my son. I chose to stop that and explore a new grey area of living. There’s no right, no wrong, no glory, just living the best we can.

Whatever you decide to do, whether it be absolutely nothing, or to take up yoga (smile!) or put some emotional distance between yourselves and your son for a while - it will be the right thing for you at that particular time.

How’s your husband doing?

Hugs

LP

Ps. Our bpd adult children must put more effort into their lives than we put into their lives. If we feel we’re doing more work than them then a red flag should go off in our heads. It took me years and years to finally understand that I had to revolve me life around myself, not him.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 06:06:36 AM by Lollypop » Logged

     I did my best. He told me I wasn’t good enough. White
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 08:10:01 AM »

Let go of the rope.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 10:29:48 AM »

Thanks LollyPop and Better Days
I totally agree. Caring more about my son's future more than he does is a big red flag. My husband, who is usually more enabling than I am, also agrees. It is time to let go of the rope as you say and that is my intention. His too. When I get back from Africa I think I will go back to AlAnon and work on the letting go with love thing. We are also signed up for a Family Connections intensive which may be a good place to look at what we are doing and how we could do better not just for him but for us
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 10:51:16 AM »

Hi Faith

That sounds like an excellent plan and it could just be the start of a new kind of relationship for you all. One that is more positive, empowering and healthy. I hope you have some time and headspace to untangle your emotions in the meantime Faith. Quite honestly, I hit a wall and knew something just had to change and I couldn’t expect it to be him.

Hugs to you. You’ve got it tough I know.

LP
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 11:52:56 AM »

Ohh Faith I must have read your mind as I have just written the same about letting go with love.

You and your husband have done so much..I agree with the yoga thing..Maybe we need to get back into our own bodies.

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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2019, 01:06:58 PM »

Excerpt
Maybe we need to get back into our own bodies.

I am going back to my aquacise classes as soon as I get home.
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zachira
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2019, 01:50:55 PM »

I think you are right on track realizing you care more about your son succeeding than he does and you need to let go. When you are a parent, this is truly painful as many parents would give their own lives for those of their children because their love for them is so deep.
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 05:23:05 PM »

Ahh, Faith... I am sorry as I know this is a bitter disappointment .  I know your heart is heavy and so very discouraged.  You could very well be right in that he may need to hear things/ accept help from a person(s) other than his parents.  He could very well be rebelling  against you both like a teen -ager and meanwhile hurting himself out of spiting you.  Perhaps removing yourselves from the beings for him to rebel against will help him and you.

Transform the phrase in your mind from "giving up" to "letting him be " or "giving space".  I am so happy you are making healthy plans for you such as aqua aerobics/ meetings, etc.  I like your insight into the Family Connections being a possible way for you to do better for yourselves- and as a by product, you will be helping your son .   
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 09:46:25 PM »

Thanks Swimmy
I only used the phrase "giving up" out of pain. The truth is I would never really give up on my son. I just need to step back a bit because what my husband and I have been doing is obviously not working.
Hugs
Faith
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 02:29:12 AM »

Hi Faith

Thank you for talking about the phrases we can use. Letting go and giving up feel such negative ones don’t they. For me, when we say them the implication is that the responsibility lay with us. I think it’s important psychologically to get the right phrase for ourselves. I like the word “dignity” - I give my son the dignity to live his own life. Release with love is a favourite too.

We raise our kids to be independent and “fly the nest”. That’s our job. Our bpd adult kids very often resist, they cling, they fail waiting for us to catch them when they fall. Just as they have to learn how to fly, we have to learn not to catch and be lovingly within their sight.

Again, watch the words we use...”bpd adult kids” - my son is a 28 (very soon to be 29). Not a grown up, an adult. I use this term to help strengthen my understanding of the situation. He’s An adult who still resents/struggles having responsibility for his life. He thoughts contradict, he has skewed thinking - it is impossible to reason with him. Particularly, because his mind is permanently altered by weed. I’m blamed for a lot of his problems - the main one is “you did too much and wrapped me up in cotton wool, I’m scared of everything”.

You’re in new territory Faith and I know how scared I felt. I’d always been so confident and sure of myself and my ability to be his saviour. The realisation made me humble. This is THE point my real and positive contribution to my son started. Not knowing what would happen, releasing any “old” ideas of how things should be, committing to explore a new way for my family.

How was I going to be “new”? I kind of used my “old ways” as a guide. If I used to do something then I wouldn’t do that any more because I accepted 100 per cent that everything I’d tried so far had failed. It felt overwhelming but you know what?  I soon felt a huge sense of relief. That weight of grief and responsibility lifted from my shoulders - the realisation that his problems weren’t mine was mighty fine. Am I sad, yes sometimes. But I’m happier and learning how to take better care of myself is part of my own recovery. I’m work in progress.

Aquacise is a great plan. If nothing else, it’ll give you something unrelated to else think and talk about.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

LP
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 03:18:33 AM »

"Letting go" does not carry negative connotations for me. It reminds of the phrases "let go and let God" and "letting go with love" that I hear at Alanon. I am better at doing it than my husband because of cultural differences. When you say "We all raise our kids to be independent'" I have to say no. We don't. That is not the case in many if not most Latin American cultures like that of my husband. (Puerto Rican) They tend to place respect and family loyalty first and independence second. It's not better or worse than what us Anglos do.
 It's just different and requires a different skill set to negotiate. So at this point he and I are both upset but not in the same way. I am disappointed in my son for giving up on himself and not working toward self sufficiency.  DH is angry because he sees DS as disloyal to him. H went out of his way to get S into this program and so his failure to keep this appointment feels disrespectful to him.So we each need to work on detaching (another good word for me) in our own way. Anyway I am in Africa for another week and a half so I am obviously not seeing my son. I won't call or text him unless he reaches out to me first. That is me giving him space. DH on the other hand said he was going over to DSs apartment yesterday to basically cuss him out. I am sure I will soon find out if he did that and if so how it went. H needs to get some things off his chest before he is ready to move on. Our family dynamic is complicated but we all, including our problematic son, do love each other so I am confident we will work this thing out even if it means H and I stepping back while S bounces around on the floor a while. Life is interesting isn't it?
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 08:16:31 AM »

Just some thoughts here that may or may not be helpful. Saying my son seems determined to go back to jail sounds harsh and judgmental and may not really be what your son is feeling. Maybe he just feels empty inside and is ambivalent about what to do and it could be many other things. Could you give this another headline that detaches with love from your son while understanding that is he is not ready or able to do what you want him to do?
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 10:32:48 AM »



If you read more of Faith's posts then you will realise that harsh and judgmental are words which don't suit her at all. She is anything but.

I can't speak for Faith but will say we all struggle at times and having this forum as a safe helps us. We need to be able to write what we feel in the way we feel at the time to work through those feelings no matter how they sound to anyone other than us.



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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2019, 10:52:39 AM »

Excerpt
Saying my son seems determined to go back to jail sounds harsh and judgmental and may not really be what your son is feeling

On several occasions my son has told me that he wants to go back to jail so no it is not harsh or judgmental to say that this SEEMS to be his truth. I will not edit my response. In fact, even if I did think better of it (which I don't) I would not do so.
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2019, 12:42:56 AM »

Faith,
I totally respect your journey with your son. You and your husband both deserve to handle your situation however you both deem the best possible way to proceed. We are all doing the best we can in the most impossible circumstances.

Hugs to you and your husband!
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 08:51:23 AM »

Hey there, Faith...
I really get it... the thing is ,  DS knows better but is choosing not to do better.  That is the crux of the pain. ( I am saying this for me as well).  We can't know all that is going on in their  heads or their reasoning from the outside.  I don't know if this helps but you and DH stood firm as parents and law enforcement personnel when you had him leave your house after finding out he was dealing from your house.  So he knows that it is wrong ( even if he didn't know before, he certainly knew once you kicked him out). Yet he is choosing that path any way, inexplicably ( to us).  Maybe to our sons it makes some sick sense.
However, you are choosing the most life affirming thing for your whole family, including DS.  Your back is against the proverbial wall here.  And I think you are on to something when you stated your DS may need to just rebel against the parents too- that also is at play here.  Removing yourselves as the objects to fight against will be the ticket and the beginning of healing for him .  His energy will be forced to be on him only then.  ( I say this for me too).Please believe you are doing the right thing even though it is bleak and hard and soul grinding.  You are a shining example to us for having grace under fire, Faith. 
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2019, 08:59:18 AM »

 I am not a psych , but our sons know right from wrong even with the mental illnesses they have. Even if they are "locked in" to their addiction/ BPD, maybe the only thing that will  " unlock" is for them to  come to realization that they have choices as well.  They can chose help.  That is the internal thing that is beyond our grasp as parents, though. 
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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2019, 09:55:14 AM »

Maybe they ( DS) are also just plain old angry.  Angry they are sick and really feel like they have no time or interest in dealing with their illness because who wants to , really?  So they are ok ( right now) in letting it all hang out and the hell with the rest?   ANd if they can't have control over their illness, well then they will do things their way and that is that, the hell with societal laws, etc? Ok, I see my co dependency is rearing up and I am trying to solve our DS's predicaments( I'm triggered to the max!)!

It is so hard when we give our hearts to our babies/ kids, but when they are adults, we have to reclaim some of our heart back.  Inhale then exhale. 
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zachira
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2019, 09:57:23 AM »

 "Removing yourselves as the objects to fight against will be the ticket and the beginning of healing for him ." Well said. The next step will be for your son to learn to acknowledge his feelings and deal with them in constructive ways.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2019, 10:35:40 AM »

Thanks all of you. I appreciate your support.
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2019, 10:45:46 AM »

What now? Do I give up?

Broadly speaking

For cultural and/or perhaps other reasons, it appears you and your hubby are not on the same page with "how" to help your son.  Right?

It strikes me as though you husband is likely "acting out" his love for his son by "doing things" that can help him get on the right/better path.

I'm wondering if you and hubby could come to compromise by agreeing to "create incentives" for the right/better behavior and then stepping back and letting your son choose?

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Best,

FF
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2019, 11:17:25 AM »

We have done that. We agreed that IF our son goes to rehab and gets a job we will help with rent if not we will not. We have also agreed we will both  back now
 We have done enough
 
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 07:14:13 AM »

Hi Faith  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

I'm so sorry your DS did not make it to the rehab interview H arranged. You've offered solid options for whatever reasons he's unable, not ready is painful.

DS told you on several occasions he wants to go back to jail, I can understand how you say it seems to be his truth. Was DS able to describe his feelings why?

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
WDx
late reply, recovering from week of yucky flu  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 10:58:10 AM »



I know what I am about to state  doesn't help, but we may not even get the answers from the BPD person either.  I have ( I am sure we all have) driven myself mad at " what was he thinking?"  Is it that they have to fight against us/ themselves to distract from their inner hell?   
In the past I had confronted another member in my family that had BPD traits ( not officially diagnosed) on why he did what he did.   He shook his head sadly and actually said," I don't know."


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« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2019, 11:12:21 AM »

Swimmy55 is right that a person with BPD may not be to do introspection, put into words their feelings and explain their behaviors. The challenge is we often don't know if a person is capable of introstrospection, self awareness, and the ability to grow until the person is put in an environment in which he/she feels safe to express their feelings and own their behaviors which in the case of a severely impaired individual would usually require some long term psychotherapy.
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