Struggling with acceptance in a difficult time

[Ozzie101]

My uBPDh is going through a very difficult and stressful time right now and I'm struggling with how to really help him while at the same time taking care of myself and keeping from falling into some old habits or patterns.

The problem is centered around his biological family (he was adopted at birth) and their second abandonment of him.

He's hurt, understandably, and very angry. It's consuming him. He's focused on revenge and hurting them as much as possible. Much of it is just talk. I know he's not going to get in a car and stalk them and run them over.

Friends and coworkers he's shared this with are all angry on his behalf (as am I) but they're all encouraging him to lash out at them. I'm a journalist and he got annoyed when I (truthfully) told him that, no his family's local news channels probably wouldn't be interested in running an expose on them. He wants to post something scathing and nasty on FB so they can be publicly hurt and humiliated. According to him, friends are cheering him on. I'm not. And that's the problem.

I'll listen to him rant. I validate how he's feeling. I tell him it's perfectly natural and normal to want to hurt them. But I stop short of telling him to go ahead and post. He knows I don't think it's the right thing to do -- for a number of reasons. He tells me that he's fairly certain that I'm right and that even if he does it, it will turn out that I was correct in my approach. But to him, everyone else is supporting him and "helping" him and I'm not.

Also, honestly, it's not going to achieve what he says he wants: to make them feel pain and humiliation (can't make them feel anything). He's focusing outward, trying to throw his emotions onto other people. But if he doesn't actually address the pain he feels, deep down, I don't feel like that will make anything better. That's presumptuous of me, though. Who am I to tell him what will help?

Honestly, a public lashing out, saying what he's told me he wants to say, would be a bad idea for several reasons. Can I just disengage and let him do it and suffer the consequences? Sure. Except that's not good enough. He seems to want and need me to tell him it's OK to do it. I can't do that. It goes against so much of what I believe at my core. Also, from experience, I know that if I say "Do it" and then it ends up biting him later, I will be blamed for "forcing him" into it. Happens a lot with decisions. So, he says it's what he needs to get better. He won't do it unless I tell him to do it. I won't do that.

Where I'm really struggling is on how to handle my own feelings and emotions. I'm angry with his family. I'm frustrated. I'm aching for him. But so much of what he's saying goes against things that I believe. I don't believe getting vengeance is a show of strength. I don't believe forgiveness is for "pu$$!3$." No, I haven't share that with him. And I haven't even suggested he forgive them. I'm steering away from telling him what I think he should do.

I can feel myself getting worn down and also losing some of my attraction for him. This is not the first time he's talked like this. He has a history of really lashing out any time he feels he or his son have been wronged. I'm a calm, rational person. The talk of violence, the anger, the knee-jerk reactions, it's all building up and feels sometimes like an avalanche is eventually going to happen and it's all going to crash down and bury me alive.

Sorry for the length and the rambling. I just needed to get that out there with people who may understand. Not really anyone else I can talk to at the moment.

[Cat Familiar]

Do you think this cycle might be seasonal with him, possibly triggered by the holidays or lack of sun?

Something you could do would be to replace some light bulbs with full spectrum bulbs and see if that might help with seasonal affective disorder. In addition, get outside and take strenuous walks with him.

If I remember correctly, he’s quite involved in the church. Could you elicit the help of a minister there?

[Wulphesse]

No wonder you're exhausted!

Forgive me, as I don't know the history here, but the "second abandonment" you mentioned -- how long ago was it?

The reason I ask: although there is a slight seasonal issue for my H, the type of dysregulation you describe sometimes seems related to certain unspecific triggers, I think of them as "themes" or types of events.

I experience those periods of dysregulation differently from more recent or "novel" events.

[Cat Familiar]

Some further thoughts about your husband’s issue...

My H has cycled through many seasons of “I’m not part of the family” regarding how his sisters keep in contact with him, rather don’t keep in contact with him.

They’re on the opposite coast, very involved with their children’s lives, and now a couple of grandchildren. He never had children, so he thinks they regard him as “selfish” and “not a real person”.

I tried to refute those beliefs years ago, and you can imagine how that went over with a pwBPD. Then it finally occurred to me that it was a cornerstone of his own lack of sense of self. Fortunately that seems to be getting better over time with therapy.

I’m thinking that this is a very deep wound your husband is confronting and as with pwBPD, he’s hoping to externalize the blame.

[Ozzie101]

I definitely think the season can have something to do with it --  particularly related to holidays and family stuff.

If I remember correctly, he’s quite involved in the church. Could you elicit the help of a minister there?

His job is with a church and, unfortunately, that's a big source of his stress at the moment.  Getting one of the ministers (aka co-workers) involved would be a big betrayal. He's currently on an anti-religion kick.

He does have a therapist he trusts, but he's not seeing her regularly. She's pretty much told him she doesn't think he needs to come in regularly unless he feels like it. He did go in a couple of weeks ago and it seemed to help but, again, neither she nor he think it needs to be regular. I think he needs to really start addressing childhood/family/abandonment stuff, but I haven't been able to suggest that in a way that works. And if a professional isn't recommending it, who am I to say it?

Forgive me, as I don't know the history here, but the "second abandonment" you mentioned -- how long ago was it?

Still going on, actually. Here's the story: He was adopted at birth. Never clicked with his parents or family (they were very controlling and cold). Last year, when a law changed, we found his bio family. Turns out his parents married a year after he was born, are still married, and had two more kids. Had always thought about him and wondered what happened to him.

The connection at first was great. They seemed thrilled to have him in their lives. They live in another state but invited us to visit them, to Thanksgiving and New Year's, on a summer vacation, etc. H always let them know that if they needed to slow down or if his presence caused any problems, just tell him. They always insisted it was great.

This summer, communication slowed, then pretty much stopped. H contacted his mom, asking if there was anything wrong or if he'd done anything. She told him she was dealing with some issues and the situation had brought complications and she needed some time to find clarity. Two months passed without a word from anyone. H hates being out of the loop or feeling like people are talking about him without his knowledge (can't blame him there). So, with his T's OK, he wrote them an email, spelling out how he felt, how the silence was affecting him, asking for some sort of explanation -- even if just an "I'm sorry but this is bringing up bad memories and I just can't do it." No response. That was a couple of weeks ago.

He's hurt. I understand that. And I hurt for him. But, as usual, he's projecting his emotions everywhere and I'm starting to see the patterns from last year. He wants to cause pain to other people. Not in my nature, but I can understand the desire. Yet, I also know that that's not really, long-term, going to take away his own pain. He's still not going to get answers from people. It's not directed at me this time (not yet, anyway), but I fear that my inability to react the way he thinks he needs will continue to be a problem and may lead to an episode like last year. I can't do that again.

And he lashes out at odd things. Last night, he nearly started down the hours-long rant road because SS9 earned enough points to wear "school-appropriate" pajamas to school. SS wondered what appropriate would mean in this case and if his Fortnite pjs would be OK. I assured him they would. H started off on how if they weren't, the school would call him and he would deal with it. "They don't want to call me. I'll set them straight. They don't want to have to deal with me. All the teachers at his school are idiots. I'll pull him out and put him in another school." Only stopped in his tracks by SS returning to the room.

I don't respond other than to validate feelings or agree with parts I agree with, but it's really tiring to listen to.

[Ozzie101]

I’m thinking that this is a very deep wound your husband is confronting and as with pwBPD, he’s hoping to externalize the blame.

Exactly. I just wish I knew what I could do -- if anything. Because he's focused on vengeance and hurting other people as the only way to make himself feel better. He tells me he knows that's "wrong" but also tries to rationalize that if it's what he needs, it's OK. Or if he hurts someone and it's a mistake, no big deal, he'll just learn from it. Meanwhile, I'm thinking that if you do something, knowing it will hurt someone, and do it anyway, that's not exactly a mistake.

Anyway, I'm not worried about his family. I'm kind of pissed at them myself. My priority is H and me. My fear is that if this continues on, our relationship will end up with some of the biggest scars.

[Wulphesse]

Got it. So this is all still in process.
AND it's the holidays, which makes it ALL the more painful that he hasn't heard anything because it was very different in previous years.
Sounds like a HUGE situational trigger that acts like a magnifying glass on the pain of the current silence.

My H will do the same: externalizing when a time of year/event/situation revives or exacerbates an injury. In fact, the comments about SS's school/teachers could be a verbatim transcript of a similar situation when my SS was 9.

One thing I notice I do is what someone once called "awful-izing" or "living in the wreckage of the future." When I worry about what could/might happen, I tense up so much that I can't respond well when something DOES happen. Of course, living with a pwBPD means the other shoe will eventually drop. But I make myself nuts when I try to figure out how that will look in advance.

It sounds like you're worried he might hurt someone. If, to use the horse analogy Cat was using in another thread, he is in some way looking to you to remind him of the boundary. You might be able to do this in a few ways. Maybe telling him you want to listen, but that in order to give him your full attention and truly support him, it would help to have a limit (a time limit, a location limit, a decibel limit, frequency limit, whatever) to those vent sessions.

I recently did something like this with my H who has suddenly developed a deep interest in politics and news as a fuel for his rage. It's exhausting to listen to because the energy level is just depleting.

A long time ago, I was able to tell H that I just didn't know how it was best for him to work through/handle some of his emotions around a specific set of events, and suggested that his T might have more creative options. While it didn't have the effect I wanted -- he didn't do intensive therapy -- it DID get him to realize that his own solutions were not the only ones available.

[Ozzie101]

Thanks, Wulphesse. Combine that with problems at work, and it's a perfect storm. He is handling it better than last year (in other words, not breaking things and emotionally/verbally abusing me), so there is that to be optimistic about.

That's good advice about the horse analogy. Thank you. I do think he's looking to me to set boundaries. And I think it's starting to frustrate him that I won't give in and tell him that I agree that it's good and right and will solve all his problems for him to publicly attack people.

I used to "awful-ize" too! I do that much less now.

I'm only slightly worried he might do something. He tends to threaten a lot and then not follow through. Or he'll talk about the nasty email he's going to send or phone call he's going to make and when he actually does it, it's rational, reasonable and fair.

So it's not so much that I fear he'll do it. It's just that this sort of thing is coming up more and more. The constant negativity and lashing out at people kind of bothered me at first since I'm a more positive person, generally, but now it's really chipping away at me.

A couple of weeks ago, he asked me what I thought was going to happen with his family. I told him, honestly, that I didn't know. He told me that the fact that I didn't know scared him.

I guess it's nice to be relied on? But I can't be his conscience/decision-maker forever.

I've thought about, this next time this comes up, asking him if he thinks his T might be able to help. (Since his big complaint is that no one is able to help him or come up with a way to get past this.) He's likely to throw the "She says I don't need to come in" or the "I don't want to pay the co-pay for something I don't need" but it's worth a try.

[Wulphesse]

The constant negativity and lashing out  ...  now it's really chipping away at me

I can SO relate to this! That's part of what's so exhausting for me.

I realized a few years ago that negativity had seeped in and pervaded nearly every nook of my psyche. It had influenced how I saw the world, and between that and the FOG I had a hard time remembering the last time I laughed about something that wasn't sarcasm.

Of course, I then worried about the effect that environment had on D. Enter FOG!

While I struggle to keep my own chin up and find -- let alone maintain -- any crumb of optimism, H seems to need me to have a positive spin on situations that trouble him. Not that he then relaxes and smiles.  Often, if I offer a potential positive outcome he'll just bash it and BPD-splain to me, or tell me that it's a sign I disagree because I'm just trying to be "right."

But I sometimes see it -- okay VERY RARELY, but SOMETIMES -- as the kind of jitters a horse gets confronting something that scares it. If I'm nervous, it makes them more nervous. If I just give a pat on the neck and say, "hey, there. You're okay." They calm down. Even if they react [read: buck, stamp, rear, pace] first.

[Ozzie101]

That's a good point, Wulphesse. I've worked hard to hold onto my optimism and my sense of right and wrong and will continue to do that.

You're right. That can require a deft touch in BPD relationships!

I really appreciate the support and feedback!

[Ray2017]

Hi Ozzie, I’m sorry that you’re struggling. From the descriptions of your H in your various posts, my H sounds remarkably similar., especially the wanting agreement part (validating my H’s feelings, especially when he feels wronged or hurt by family or friends, is NOT enough- he wants total agreement with his plans of getting back at them, nasty text, email, all, which he also rarely follows through on). It’s so hard and I haven’t found the right answer, obviously. Just joining the group of people that empathize with your situation. I don’t get a lot of self-care time anyway, but it definitely chips away with whatever is there and leaves me feeling empty, lonely and deflated. I hope the situation can come to a resolution soon for your sake, but in the meantime, I hope you get the support you need from everyone to help you get through.

ps- I’m loving all of these horse analogies. I’ve ridden for years, and my parents have 5 horses I help take care of, so the examples have been great.

[Ozzie101]

Thank you, Ray! This site is a big help -- really the only place I feel I can turn at the moment.

Last night was not a good one.

On top of the family stuff, H has been dealing with major stress at work for a long time and has been actively looking for a new job -- so far with no success.

Well, I've been looking for a new job off-and-on for about 10 years now. I'm in a dying, low-paying industry, stagnating with no hope of advancement. But, my degree and skills aren't as widely marketable.

Anyway, a close friend of ours (I'll call him F) told me about a job where he works and he thought I'd be perfect for it. I applied, got called in for an interview, but they ended up hiring internally. Friend told me that another similar position would likely open up soon and, since I'd already applied and interviewed, that would give me a leg up. A couple of months ago, he texted to see if I was still interested and I said yes. Nothing since then.

H got annoyed we hadn't heard anything else, so he texted F a few days ago, asking what was going on and saying if I was being strung along, to let me go so I could focus elsewhere. F assured him something was "imminent." (This is a state job -- they move at the pace of a gravely debilitated, very old snail.) A day or two after that, I get a call from the office and a text from friend saying they want me to come in to talk. F said they're not interviewing other candidates.

Last night, we got together with a group of friends and, as we were getting ready to leave, I talked to F about it. He told me the job will be mine if I want it. The meeting is to just rehash the position and see that we're all on the same page.

I felt excited. This would be a more stable job with great benefits, pay at almost double what I'm making now, and using a similar but new skill set.

So, when we left, I told H what F and I had talked about. H was immediately angry. I honestly couldn't figure out what the issue was. He'd seemed happy about it a couple of days earlier.

After he put SS9 to bed, we were on the couch and he started going off on how we just see things differently and are not on the same page, so no point in discussing it. I told him I wanted to understand where he was coming from.

Turns out, he believes there is no job. F (who is running for public office) just made a pest of himself with his coworkers and they're bringing me in to appease him. But there's probably no job for me. So, just wasting my time and getting my hopes up.

Maybe he's right. I've been burned by job possibilities before. But I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic.

He talked about how gullible I am and how I let everyone walk all over me. Then he said (re: the job) "I don't care what you do. It doesn't matter to me. Do whatever you want."

Talk about feeling deflated.

I know he's stressed about his own work situation. One of the reasons I'm happy about this possibility is it would take some of the stress off him. If I make more, I'm able to contribute more and there's more room for him to take a job with less pay.

This is both an exciting and scary possibility and now I'm seeing that, if it does happen, I'm likely to have to deal with problems and a lack of support at home just when I'm really going to need it. That's disheartening.

It didn't help that another friend asked innocently if we'd talked to H's bio parents lately. (F already knows the problems there.) H just said no and went to the bathroom. It was kind of awkward for a second and F changed the subject. SS9 was sitting right there so F and I couldn't explain. Later, H seemed annoyed that I hadn't told this friend about the family issue. Well, he's been friends with this man for over 25 years. I've been friends with him for about 3 and we don't communicate with each other outside of get-togethers. H has talked about how he's told "friends" what's going on and how angry they are on his behalf. I genuinely thought this man was one of those friends and certainly didn't think it was my place to do say anything, regardless.

So, he was primed for a dysregulation.

Thing is, when we got home, I started shaking uncontrollably -- like I used to last year when H was worked up. I managed to calm myself, but I can just feel the fear growing in me more and more. I don't want to go back to where we were.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re not going back to where you were, Ozzie. You now have skills you didn’t have previously and you can spot when the train is beginning to go off the track and adjust accordingly.

To me, this looks like simple jealousy, expressed through the BPD lens. I’ve experienced similar. It feels so unsupportive when you have reason to feel excited and optimistic and your partner throws shade.

I see another aspect too. If your income is greater, he won’t feel “superior” to you and this could be threatening to him, particularly now that he’s discontented with his current job and seeking to replace it.

So congratulations on having a promising new job prospect 

[Ozzie101]

Thank you, Cat! It's nice to get some positive feedback on the job! I don't want to tell family or friends until/unless it's a done deal.

Yes, jealousy was my immediate thought last night as he was going on his rant. Also, while he's thrown shade before at how little I make (when he's in a mood) and has always encouraged me to find a job where I'm better rewarded and appreciated (in good times), now that it might actually happen, that probably throws him for a loop.

His vengeance/vindictiveness side came out again. He told me if it turns out there's no job or they don't give it to me, I'd better make a big stink: get a lawyer and sue, post on Facebook, etc. In other words, same thing he wants to do with his bio family. Of course I wouldn't do those things (for one thing, it would make my job search nearly impossible -- also, goes against my ethical/moral code). He said he knew I wouldn't, because I'm gullible and let people walk all over me.

*sigh*

[Cat Familiar]

I doubt that you’re gullible, working in the industry you’re in. 

And major projection from him.    How crazy to think that it’s an appropriate strategy to sue and use social media to complain about life’s disappointments.

Like has that ever worked for him in the past?

And if it has, how does he reconcile an employer’s Google search of his name retuning lawsuits and social media rants?

[Ozzie101]

Oh, I don't think he's ever done it. He insists it's the right way to react to being wronged (to lash out and hurt other people or publicly shame them) but as far as I know, he doesn't act on it. Just talks about it. And, usually, tries to get me to either act on it for him or tell him that I think he should do that. I refuse.

I mentioned the Google and social media thing regarding his job search when he talked about what he wanted to post about his family. He insisted future employers don't actually look at that stuff -- he never does when he's hiring people.

My motto has usually been: hope for the best but don't expect the best. That way, my attitude is positive, but I don't get shocked or badly hurt if/when it doesn't go the way I'd like.

And, yes, I tend to see the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. That's just the way my brain works at this point. If this job falls through, I'll just shrug and figure something went wrong with funding or I wasn't the right person after all. Honestly, I'm happier that way. I don't hold onto resentment but that's more for my own sake than the sake of others. H would be furious and want to cut off our friend for his "betrayal."

I think he's just got so much hurt and pain inside, he doesn't know what to do with it. Somehow, he thinks that causing pain to others would cure his. But I see it like this: Someone comes along, knocks you down (on purpose or by accident) and breaks your arm. Your arm hurts like crazy. I'd go to the doctor, get it fixed. H's response would be (again, whether on purpose or by accident): I have to break that person's arm so they'll feel the same pain. Problem? His arm will still be broken and will still hurt and nothing will be fixed or solved.

Being on the receiving end of the rants and having my own optimism and forgiving nature pummeled is exhausting.

Also, he's slipping into the "you have to handle life for me" pattern: like my falling down on the job of telling his friend about H's family drama. A job I had no idea he expected me to take on.

[Cat Familiar]

He seems to be overlooking Jesus’ advice to turn the other cheek.

[GaGrl]

I was in HR for many years, large organizations -- and social media absolutely is looked at in the hiring process. I advised our niece to clean up her Bourbon Street postings when she started job-hunting. Postings and reactions to postings provide insight regarding Emotional Intelligence.

[Ozzie101]

He thinks that's weakness.

Pretty much the opposite of what I believe. Which is why this is tiring, difficult and leaves me occasionally in that despairing "how is this possibly going to lead anywhere good?" place.

In his better moments, when he's calmer, he'll usually tell me he thinks my way is right. He just struggles with it.

And, yes, GaGrl. I'd heard that many, many times. Not sure H believes me or not.

[Cat Familiar]

So he’s a “cafeteria Christian”—take a little from here, reject some there, just choose what one likes?

[Ozzie101]

I suppose so. He's admitted that he's not sure what he believes. He's never been particularly devout. I'm not sure what drew him to church work in the first place but he did study religion in college and loves playing the organ. Anyway, given his recent experiences, he's of the opinion that "church people" are mostly awful and organized religion should fail.

[Ozzie101]

He was better about the job thing last night. Usually if he gets a little time, he's far more reasonable.

But we still ended up spending a LONG time talking last night. He's struggling with his family, my family, the fact that his psychiatrist is being non-responsive to emails (even emails from his therapist, who's in the same practice). Anyway, he was pretty self-aware and wasn't dysregulating but it ended up going on for a while.

Main theme: I don't support him. I'm not on his side. Basically, stuff that's come up before. The conversation went to the situation with my family -- how as far as we know, my sisters still want nothing to do with him (after learning of his verbal and emotional abuse of me last year). Us being unsure how to deal with things. A couple of times he got angry  and said "I'm not doing this!" Or, more calmly, said he was "this close to just giving up on the whole thing" -- meaning wanting a divorce. Kept saying that maybe that would just make things easier for me and for them. I told him I don't want that.

It's the same issues and same problems we've had from the beginning and I have no idea how to solve it. I can go back to my sisters to gauge where they are on things, try to get them to loosen up, convince them that I need their support, regardless of their feelings. He did come to a family dinner in August and they pretty much ignored him but at least there was no hostility.

Thing is, I see failures all around. They weren't as warm and welcoming from early on as they could have been (my sisters didn't seem to make much effort at all from what I saw). He wasn't very friendly either (tension and resentment roll off him in waves when my family is around -- I know he's an introvert and he feels awkward, but it doesn't help -- I wouldn't want to approach him either). I feel like I could have done a better job of smoothing the path somehow.

I see both sides on some things: H feels like my sisters should do more for or show more interest in SS9. I've felt some disappointment that they haven't reached out more, like when they didn't invite us to join them for trick-or-treating a couple of years ago. At the same time, they have no real responsibility to him. If they want to do things for or with him, great, but they're not obligated. And their relationship with him is going to be different than mine with their kids. They've known him since he was 6 -- 3 years. They're his aunts -- sort of, but not really. He has family who lavish him with attention/gifts/affection. He hasn't shown any interest in my sisters or been in any way receptive to them when they've tried to interact.

H says he feels like he's in the middle. But I really feel that myself. There are two sides. I love both sides. But it seems that neither side can accept or understand that I love the other. If I'm put in a position of deciding, I lose either way. And from H's perspective, anything short of complete agreement and compliance from me is my siding against him.

They're not always right. They've done things wrong. They still do. They've hurt me in ways. They've disappointed me. But they're my family and I still love them. *sigh*

Sorry for the ramble. I've had two long nights back to back. I need a vacation in the worst way!

[Cat Familiar]

You have control over yourself. He has control over himself.

He’s indirectly asking you to be responsible for how other people behave or what they think of him. You cannot control the world to make it a more benign place for him.

And even if you could, I would bet that there would always be something that wasn’t up to his standards.

How your sisters related to him beginning on day one, was a function of how they felt about him. He seemingly wants affirmation and approval without reciprocating it.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, that's part of what's frustrating. I can't control them or tell them what to do. And I won't/can't lash out at them or tell my parents I think my sisters are awful people (and I don't think they're awful) like he wants me to.

He's, again, expecting me to fix his feelings for him.

These discussions go around and around. Problem is, I can't fully agree with him because I see both sides and I don't think he's 100% right. Partly right? Yes. But not completely. But if I tell him something he didn't do right or he could fix, or don't go all in with him (keeping my thoughts about his role in it to myself) he gets very defensive and says I'm siding against him and choosing my family over him.

He says they've treated him terribly by not giving him another chance or forgiving him. From my perspective, my sisters are protective of me. He never made any effort to get to know them from the start, so there was no good will to build on. They found out he was abusing me and that was it. They don't owe him anything. Would it be nice if they would forgive or be more open? Maybe. But that's theirs to decide.

It becomes my problem because H expects me to act.

A lot of this coming back up is related to his own family situation, I'm sure. His insecurities are really kicking up right now and it seems like he's doing a testing/pushing away thing.