Point of no return? She hit me then called the police on ME

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

TL:DR Married few years. She went to jail a year ago for beating me. Big break up beginning of this year after I lost my job. After 3 month on and off living apart and then 3 month NC we come back together and it feels like a normal relationship with reasonable hurdles for 4 months (not euphoric happiness like past break up, get back together). She finished in-patient and out-patient program for first time in her life and it greatly helped our relationship. Technically worst we have been in our individual lives (financially, no jobs, no direction) but we were still content and happy day to day and closer than ever. 5th month she starts hanging out with and getting negative energy from uBPD person. Starts becoming immature again once we finalize our next move in life. We decide to be responsible and that I will go ahead and she will work on gaining perspective and maturing with her family for a couple months before we set off on new life. End up deciding we want to try anyways and not do that plan. Big argument, she says things she never has before, hits me, I restrain her. We both have marks, she calls police. Police say they can't tell who is perp so she flys back home to parents. First time I instinctively thought that a person HAS to be out of my life, because I am in serious danger (because cops could put me in jail). She messages me and I refuse bait.

_________________________________

This happened a few days ago. Need to get it out on paper, but I think I'll need to post on detaching from a relationship.

We're married a few years, split earlier this year, got back together after time apart 5 months ago. Relationship was mostly good. We both came in with new skills and she actually finished an in-patient and out-patient program (never before done in all her life, through the many many programs she's tried. was part of the condition of us trying again). I think this is the consistent and happiest days we've had. And it wasn't a europhic version which is the fleeting kind. It was just a simple happiness. It felt like we got into a calm and relaxed relationship. And this was especially surprising because technically we were both in the worst positions we've ever been in our lives or our relationship, yet it's been the closest we've been in what I felt was a healthy way (we're both swimming in debt, have no jobs or local support systems). Sometimes we had arguments but usually both of us would be able to meet back together in the middle. I'd support her to get back and she would just as much support me to bring me back. It felt like a reasonable amount of complexity and I felt fine withholding judgements, being understanding and just experiencing life with her.

We've been in a super stressed out situation. I lost my job beginning of this year right after the split. After we got back together I found a new job across the world, then a few months into that they said nevermind, budget got rescinded. We had been planning and getting ready for the transition. Ok, we can work with this... we'll regroup and figure out our next plans. We got into a position where we both felt stuck, and were unsure of the future due to my job loss and not knowing where to go (I work in niche industry). So it was reasonable when we had our complications and it usually just revolved around that. We were both a bit scared and at the same time we learned to embrace each other as healthily as possible.

Fast forward to this last month and deciding to move across the world to a different country to start a company with some industry friends, is when the heat started to pick up and old cycles started repeating themselves. Eventually she said herself that she was too immature to handle the kind of relationship we should have as married persons. I agreed and it was the first time we could actually discuss it like adults compared to the other breakups through the years, where she would just up and leave frantically. We decided she would stay behind, hold down the fort, get herself a job and I would go forward and we would reconvene later, so she could have time to work on her immaturity issues. After a few days of this we felt like we fell more in love realizing that we would be apart from each other. So we ended up deciding she will still come and we will face the issues together as we have been and keep trying and start our new routines and lives together.

This month was still manageable, but then she started excessively hanging out with another person uBPD who recently was dumped, because of her BPD behaviors. At first her spending time with this person gave her perspective in how bonkers she had been in the past, and to appreciate my patience. It helped us at first. But as time went on, after the uBPD friend got dumped, she started coming back home with negative thoughts, how I oppress her, etc. I did tell my wife that while I fully support her having friends and encourage her to, this one is bringing negative energy into her life and I would appreciate if she hung out with the other people she met at her treatment center who were more positive. Because half the time she would come home from hanging out with her, she would be very sad or angry. The other half she'd be fine.

Fast forward to the few days ago. I was stressed out because she reverted back to full blown immature behaviors from the past. She would walk away from me when I would ask her a question, so I told her I'm ok here until I'm able to talk to you because it's important to me. I told her when she does that I feel like I'm not being treated like a person, let alone a partner. I went to my office to be alone, she came in after and started yelling at me, to talk to her so she can fix what's wrong. I told her I already tried talking to her, I have been this entire time, this past week (she hates confrontation so she will usually say she doesn't want to talk about it anymore and move on) so now I need time because I'm overwhelmed from being treated that way. I faced back towards my computer. She called me a bitch for ignoring her. Said I was a pussy for just burying into my computer instead of talking to her (she has never talked to me this way, I could tell she lost all control). I told her that I really need time alone, because lately her presence in my life has been causing me mostly(I emphasized to let her know not always) strife or problems (I regret saying this even tho it was true. I don't think anyone would like hearing that.) and then she reached for my computer to turn it off (she did this a ton in the past and I would have to leave the house when it got to this point), I pushed her arm away. She struck me in the face and I immediately got up and restrained her by the arms. She had beat me a year ago, I was not letting it happen again. I was very angry but present in the moment, only restraining her. I have never laid a finger on her and I still did not during this encounter. She kept swinging at me and I just pushed her away from me. Her glasses fell so I let go and she picked them up. She left the room. I stayed in my office. 20 minutes later the police showed up. They ask me what happened and I explained. They saw my cuts from her. She had finger marks from me restraining her arms. They ended up saying they either take us both to jail or we just separate for 24 hours because they could not tell who started it.

As soon as I saw the police at the door, I knew that I could no longer have her in my life at this time. She had become a liability. My life was almost ruined. It was the first time I instinctively put myself first in our relationship 110% (I'm codependent). I don't demonize her for her actions. I understand she got triggered into this whole mess from when we decided to move to start my company. She was starting to feel trapped and she was already stressed out from the months of not being able to move forward with her or our life. It was reasonable for us to be in a dark time.

She flew out to her mom's the next day. She asked me to nonchalantly to watch her dog as the police separated us. She came back that night to get some stuff and I left when she came. She asked me to switch her laundry and said "She would really appreciate it" and I asked her to clean some stuff up before she left and she said no problem. Fast forward a day she said "do you want to talk? i don't have anything to say except we're over"...but then she sends me pictures "it's much worse now! but in case you were wondering who had it worse, i have purple fingerprints from your fingers on me. do you have anything to say?" I basically told her that if she thinks I tried to hurt her that we shouldn't be talking and I can talk through family. I told her that I tried to restrain her and she didn't fear anything, she just tried to put me in jail. I told her I care about her and hope she takes care of herself and that I will take care of myself. I said if what I'm saying is upsetting her then we shouldn't talk for a few more days and if not i'm fine with being on talking terms to close things out. She did not respond. I went through this bating behavior before our last break up earlier this year. She was trying to get a response with the pictures and "in case you're wondering who had it worse". She saw that she could not get what she wanted, that I am immune to that stuff now and retreated.

I've been fine. It really hasn't affected me. It's unfortunate, but I wouldn't say I feel sad about it. It's a very unfortunate situation. I think I am healthily detached right now. I am continuing with my path and keeping up with talking to my friends and having fun and taking care of responsibilities. I thought for a second to post here the night of, but I didn't really feel like I even needed to, which is a big step up from the past where I would frantically come here for answers. I don't journal so I think this is why I'm posting here tonight.

I do wish we wouldn't have to get divorced and probably go NC, but I think this is the ultimate decision I have to make. If I do not respect myself on this, I am nothing to myself and to her. Our relationship will never stay better and I won't be better in my own individual life. I cannot let someone hit me then call the police on ME.

I'm going to miss her. I really do love her and care about her and I know she does to me, but that's exactly why I have to be the responsible one here. She's not capable the same reason why we still decided on her coming with me even tho she still had some more issues to work through. I'm going to e-mail the divorce attorney tomorrow. I don't want to but I know I have to.

[ziasquinn3000]

TL:DR Married few years. She went to jail a year ago for beating me. Big break up beginning of this year after I lost my job. After 3 month on and off living apart and then 3 month NC we come back together and it feels like a normal relationship with reasonable hurdles for 4 months (not euphoric happiness like past break up, get back together). She finished in-patient and out-patient program for first time in her life and it greatly helped our relationship. Technically worst we have been in our individual lives (financially, no jobs, no direction) but we were still content and happy day to day and closer than ever. 5th month she starts hanging out with and getting negative energy from uBPD person. Starts becoming immature again once we finalize our next move in life. We decide to be responsible and that I will go ahead and she will work on gaining perspective and maturing with her family for a couple months before we set off on new life. End up deciding we want to try anyways and not do that plan. Big argument, she says things she never has before, hits me, I restrain her. We both have marks, she calls police. Police say they can't tell who is perp so she flys back home to parents. First time I instinctively thought that a person HAS to be out of my life, because I am in serious danger (because cops could put me in jail). She messages me and I refuse bait.

_________________________________

This happened a few days ago. Need to get it out on paper, but I think I'll need to post on detaching from a relationship.

We're married a few years, split earlier this year, got back together after time apart 5 months ago. Relationship was mostly good. We both came in with new skills and she actually finished an in-patient and out-patient program (never before done in all her life, through the many many programs she's tried. was part of the condition of us trying again). I think this is the consistent and happiest days we've had. And it wasn't a europhic version which is the fleeting kind. It was just a simple happiness. It felt like we got into a calm and relaxed relationship. And this was especially surprising because technically we were both in the worst positions we've ever been in our lives or our relationship, yet it's been the closest we've been in what I felt was a healthy way (we're both swimming in debt, have no jobs or local support systems). Sometimes we had arguments but usually both of us would be able to meet back together in the middle. I'd support her to get back and she would just as much support me to bring me back. It felt like a reasonable amount of complexity and I felt fine withholding judgements, being understanding and just experiencing life with her.

We've been in a super stressed out situation. I lost my job beginning of this year right after the split. After we got back together I found a new job across the world, then a few months into that they said nevermind, budget got rescinded. We had been planning and getting ready for the transition. Ok, we can work with this... we'll regroup and figure out our next plans. We got into a position where we both felt stuck, and were unsure of the future due to my job loss and not knowing where to go (I work in niche industry). So it was reasonable when we had our complications and it usually just revolved around that. We were both a bit scared and at the same time we learned to embrace each other as healthily as possible.

Fast forward to this last month and deciding to move across the world to a different country to start a company with some industry friends, is when the heat started to pick up and old cycles started repeating themselves. Eventually she said herself that she was too immature to handle the kind of relationship we should have as married persons. I agreed and it was the first time we could actually discuss it like adults compared to the other breakups through the years, where she would just up and leave frantically. We decided she would stay behind, hold down the fort, get herself a job and I would go forward and we would reconvene later, so she could have time to work on her immaturity issues. After a few days of this we felt like we fell more in love realizing that we would be apart from each other. So we ended up deciding she will still come and we will face the issues together as we have been and keep trying and start our new routines and lives together.

This month was still manageable, but then she started excessively hanging out with another person uBPD who recently was dumped, because of her BPD behaviors. At first her spending time with this person gave her perspective in how bonkers she had been in the past, and to appreciate my patience. It helped us at first. But as time went on, after the uBPD friend got dumped, she started coming back home with negative thoughts, how I oppress her, etc. I did tell my wife that while I fully support her having friends and encourage her to, this one is bringing negative energy into her life and I would appreciate if she hung out with the other people she met at her treatment center who were more positive. Because half the time she would come home from hanging out with her, she would be very sad or angry. The other half she'd be fine.

Fast forward to the few days ago. I was stressed out because she reverted back to full blown immature behaviors from the past. She would walk away from me when I would ask her a question, so I told her I'm ok here until I'm able to talk to you because it's important to me. I told her when she does that I feel like I'm not being treated like a person, let alone a partner. I went to my office to be alone, she came in after and started yelling at me, to talk to her so she can fix what's wrong. I told her I already tried talking to her, I have been this entire time, this past week (she hates confrontation so she will usually say she doesn't want to talk about it anymore and move on) so now I need time because I'm overwhelmed from being treated that way. I faced back towards my computer. She called me a bitch for ignoring her. Said I was a pussy for just burying into my computer instead of talking to her (she has never talked to me this way, I could tell she lost all control). I told her that I really need time alone, because lately her presence in my life has been causing me mostly(I emphasized to let her know not always) strife or problems (I regret saying this even tho it was true. I don't think anyone would like hearing that.) and then she reached for my computer to turn it off (she did this a ton in the past and I would have to leave the house when it got to this point), I pushed her arm away. She struck me in the face and I immediately got up and restrained her by the arms. She had beat me a year ago, I was not letting it happen again. I was very angry but present in the moment, only restraining her. I have never laid a finger on her and I still did not during this encounter. She kept swinging at me and I just pushed her away from me. Her glasses fell so I let go and she picked them up. She left the room. I stayed in my office. 20 minutes later the police showed up. They ask me what happened and I explained. They saw my cuts from her. She had finger marks from me restraining her arms. They ended up saying they either take us both to jail or we just separate for 24 hours because they could not tell who started it.

As soon as I saw the police at the door, I knew that I could no longer have her in my life at this time. She had become a liability. My life was almost ruined. It was the first time I instinctively put myself first in our relationship 110% (I'm codependent). I don't demonize her for her actions. I understand she got triggered into this whole mess from when we decided to move to start my company. She was starting to feel trapped and she was already stressed out from the months of not being able to move forward with her or our life. It was reasonable for us to be in a dark time.

She flew out to her mom's the next day. She asked me to nonchalantly to watch her dog as the police separated us. She came back that night to get some stuff and I left when she came. She asked me to switch her laundry and said "She would really appreciate it" and I asked her to clean some stuff up before she left and she said no problem. Fast forward a day she said "do you want to talk? i don't have anything to say except we're over"...but then she sends me pictures "it's much worse now! but in case you were wondering who had it worse, i have purple fingerprints from your fingers on me. do you have anything to say?" I basically told her that if she thinks I tried to hurt her that we shouldn't be talking and I can talk through family. I told her that I tried to restrain her and she didn't fear anything, she just tried to put me in jail. I told her I care about her and hope she takes care of herself and that I will take care of myself. I said if what I'm saying is upsetting her then we shouldn't talk for a few more days and if not i'm fine with being on talking terms to close things out. She did not respond. I went through this bating behavior before our last break up earlier this year. She was trying to get a response with the pictures and "in case you're wondering who had it worse". She saw that she could not get what she wanted, that I am immune to that stuff now and retreated.

I've been fine. It really hasn't affected me. It's unfortunate, but I wouldn't say I feel sad about it. It's a very unfortunate situation. I think I am healthily detached right now. I am continuing with my path and keeping up with talking to my friends and having fun and taking care of responsibilities. I thought for a second to post here the night of, but I didn't really feel like I even needed to, which is a big step up from the past where I would frantically come here for answers. I don't journal so I think this is why I'm posting here tonight.

I do wish we wouldn't have to get divorced and probably go NC, but I think this is the ultimate decision I have to make. If I do not respect myself on this, I am nothing to myself and to her. Our relationship will never stay better and I won't be better in my own individual life. I cannot let someone hit me then call the police on ME.

I'm going to miss her. I really do love her and care about her and I know she does to me, but that's exactly why I have to be the responsible one here. She's not capable the same reason why we still decided on her coming with me even tho she still had some more issues to work through. I'm going to e-mail the divorce attorney tomorrow. I don't want to but I know I have to.

[formflier]

That's a tough one.  You start a post over on the legal board as well.

How do you see this week playing out?

Best,

FF

[ziasquinn3000]

Hmmm. This week?

I have to continue packing everything for donations, moving stuff into storage. I have to do some repairs on my rentals and get them ready. I have to work with my lawyer on company formation overseas. I go see my sister Friday and Saturday for Thanksgiving. So it's a busy week for me, I'll be completely occupied.

I think I will reach out to her tomorrow. I already talked to her mom the other day and she said she's not pressing charges and I don't think she will either. She also has 0 reason to come back to this side of the country. The police themselves decided not to go further with it, last year they immediately arrested her so I think she knows and that's why she made the "in case you wonder who had it worse" comment, she's already willing to admit her hand in it. She's smart, she knows it won't go anywhere to press charges and/or that it looks really bad for her and again, I don't think she was being malicious, she just hit a breaking point with all the stress and me never standing up for myself like that. I need to talk to her tho to verify she will be wanting her dog otherwise I can't keep him. That she still wants a no contest divorce so things can be easy (when we got back together we talked about what it would mean if we didn't work out and that was part of it. I don't think she will change that any. And what to do about taxes.

[Cat Familiar]

Intellectually, it sounds like you're getting your ducks in a row. So how are you doing emotionally after all of this? 

[ziasquinn3000]

My mind is in motion so I don't have too strong of emotions either way. Being preoccupied with stuff and a lot of deadlines before I move across the world. I would definitely say I am riding a wave, but I don't think if the wave crashes I will be in a bad spot. Yeah it sucks, especially because it's so dumb and how it happened. There wasn't even a build up to it. Day was going fine, got into a small argument and even the struggle back and forth wasn't even that dramatic. We had a roommate in the bedroom right next to us, so she kept quiet, no screams like way in the past. Even when her glasses got knocked off, she was just like "hey, my glasses..." It feels kind of like an empty experience overall.

I think emotionally I'm torn between feeling like I should be moving on without talking to her further than surface talk or if I should talk to her like I always have whenever we've had an altercation. Go through the steps of what happened, why it happened, come to a greater understanding of each other and forgive each other. Right now I know either way I just need the time regardless of how I want to approach it in the future. We both do. Unfortunately I think that time is years at this point.

I'm not upset but I do keep bouncing back between brief feelings of "oh my god I can't believe she called the police on me. How could she betray me like that". Other than that I think I've gone through something like this so many times, it's not affecting me too much. I guess that's bad but also kind of good that I don't have experiences control my emotions, but I need better boundaries to not let this stuff in my life with people. Meet a new colleague, friend, relationship - experience something that goes past my boundary, no judgements for it and let it roll off my back, then put a boundary in place and if they don't respect it I move on. Isn't that the ultimate goal? To obtain and maintain healthy relationships.

[LeftBehindGuy]

 Hey Zias,

  I am kind of new here (3 months since my ex wife of 1 year took off),  so I don't normally respond to others at this point because I don't want to give anyone bad advice.  I was in a situation with my XW where did strike me and then went to the police station and filed a false charge.   It nearly ruined my life (particularly given the type of work I do).  It's very difficult in this day and age to get a DV charged dismissed despite the lack of evidence.  It took me $13k in legal bills and 8 months to do so.  I still suffer from PTSD from it. 

    One thing I am ashamed of, it wasn't enough for me to decide to leave.  I took her back and we had another miserable 8 months together until she finally decided she was done with me and moved away.   

    I am proud of you for how rational you are being about this.  I hope it continues.  3 months out, I still have good days and bad days.  Remember healing and moving on is not a linear process.   There are ups and downs too.   

[ziasquinn3000]

Hey man, keep on posting. You don't need to specifically give advice to be involved on the forums

Don't ever forget the reasons you gave her another chance. I imagine you are a person that gives people the benefit of the doubt and was willing to trust her when the history said otherwise. It's a powerful tool to use in healthy relationships that not many have access to. I like to think of it as our ability to become close with people in a healthy way if they are healthy and do not abuse us for it, because of our trusting the good in people nature. While people with BPD get close to people by repeatedly wearing down boundaries. Two sides of the spectrum really.

I've been swamped today but she sent me a message. It was pretty normal and respectful. She asked some questions about taxes and how we move forward with divorce and when. She said she's trying to figure out what to do with her dog, I asked what she meant and she assumed it's out of the question for me to take the time to take him to the airport for her. I told her it's not out of the question, because it's the dog... (I've been apart of the dogs life since he was a puppy. He's really great).  She said she figured I would be swamped like I said I am and I said I am but I can take care of him and get it done next week.

We basically ended at that when she asked if she should make the vet appointment or me and I said she can, any day or time after the 2nd and I can get it done. She said ok I hope you are doing well and I said I hope you are doing well too and nothing else was said. It wasn't really an "ending to a conversation" but I think at this point the less talking the better otherwise she will feed off it too much and start to twist things around again. When she knows she doesn't have me under her control, she becomes way more kind and respectful and easy going. Not that I don't miss her anymore still haha. She's a good person that just needs time to mature through her issues... Same with my personal issues. Every time we've had gaps of time in our relationship it's fixed a lot of the problems we had. I think that's really helping me to stay judgement and bitter free. Gotta keep that compassion running!

Not that I am planning for us to be back together, but if it's meant to be we can figure it out a couple years from now, because I already made the decision of what's important to me in my life when I decided to try again with her. Those things are all still true and I don't think they'll change. Maybe tho, time changes all the time . But I've been faced with this obstacle now and the only way through this earth shattering incompatibility, is to be apart. I can't have someone that would cause me to end up in jail. That's where she is in her moment of life experience right now, so it can't be apart of mine.

I'm looking forward to all the new things and opportunities that come from moving to a new country. I am going to have a lot of time to work on stuff I've regained passion for since I lost my job beginning of this year. I will be a bit lonely, but I will figure it out.

[ziasquinn3000]

I messaged her today because her car is still here and I need it moved (it's dead, I have another roommate moving in that needs to park, she voluntary repo'd it) I think it's clear as day it's an abandonment test. she wants to see how much power she still has, but I also know that it doesn't matter what it is, as long as I do things for what I want to do. and I accomplished my thing that was weighing on me for not apologizing for the things I had said (about how things she was doing lately were causing me strife and problems). now it's out of the way and she showed me where her mind is at "oh i wasn't apologizing about it" which just makes the transition easier and I also don't want to be in contact with someone who hit me, called the police on me and does not apologize for it so that's why I made it clear no contact. She has always had problems with accountability in the past, so I understand why she won't apologize for it. It's too shameful for her. Not my problem though. Was I clear enough in why I didn't want contact, because she would not apologize?

[RobinJay]

My partner recently physically abused me, blamed me for it and left. Not as bad as having the cops called on me too, but I also received no apology. Like you, I genuinely felt bad about the things I said during that fight and apologized. We are now NC. I didn’t get to have a discussion with them about it, but it was necessary after they refused to be accountable, probably also because of shame.

I think your message was quite clear. Reading your exchange gives me peace of mind that I also wasn’t to blame and there was nothing more I could have done. I’m struggling with letting go of them even though they couldn’t be accountable. So it helps to read about how that is making the transition easier for you.

I’m also buoyed by how well you are doing at moving forward with your life and maintaining perspective. I’m trying to do the same. As much as I miss my partner, my life is easier to live right now and much more peaceful.

Robin

[smart_storm26]

Hi ziasquinn3000,

First of all, I am really sorry to hear what you are going through. Secondly, why are you torturing yourself in this sub-standard relationship you have put yourself in? She herself has admitted that she isn't mature enough for a healthy relationship. Besides that, look at yourself in the mirror. You are already broken and damaged beyond you could ever think of. She has already shown that she can implicate you with false charges and call the police on you. She has proved herself to be outright harmful for you. People enter relationships to grow and mature together, not to get damaged and ruined. Stop researching on her behavior and please walk out of this dark pit. You deserve better. You deserve a real relationship where there's mutual respect and peace.

[ForeverDad]

You're married and on/off separated.  It's good that you do recognize the cycles, that it's not surprising she has relapses into poor behaviors.  However, one reason the cycles keep restarting is that the distance apart reduces the impact of her disordered thinking and behaviors.  So you're tempted to think, "This time will be different, better."  But get back together and then before long you're right back where you were before.  It's almost like being close again triggers the old patterns you thought were gone.

On a practical aspect, you know there is huge risk of getting carted off to jail.  Once she was the one carted off, this last time was a draw, thanks to the police.  If there's a next time... Yes, past behaviors really are the best predictor of future behaviors.

Are you now at the point of accepting the risk of remaining married is just too much?  As FF suggested, it sounds like time to post on the Family Law & Divorce board.  Fortunately you don't have children so there's no custody issues to complicate things.

Frankly, if you're looking for some level of Closure from her, you'll get mixed signals.  Best to just grant yourself Closure, Let Go and Move On with your life.

[LeftBehindGuy]

 Zais,

  I wanted to chime again.  As I said previously, unfortunately my ex wife was able to file charges (the next day just on her say so.  no marks or bruises or any evidence).  In this case the police didn't ask for my side of the story.  That's really scary that she could do that on a whim, and could even more easily do it again. Fortunately, I wasn't arrested, I was given a summons (wasn't cuffed, finger printed or locked up), but I Had to report it at work and it took 8 months, a great deal of stress and anxiety and a lot of money to clear my name.  Stupidly I stayed with her another 9 months...and she certainly threatened that she would call the police again several times.  In fact, I think one time after an argument where I left our place and went to stay with a friend...I think she did call the police.  I am lucky that they didn't do anything that time.   

   One scary thing is though we live 700 miles apart, and I never contact her, I live in fear that one day she will send the police to my house to arrest me again.  I had bad anxiety about all Thanksgiving.  In fact I have made so she doesn't know what state I live in, and certainly doesn't have my address (she has asked me where I moved several times).  I feel like this will give me some protection if she wants to file a false police report again but she will have to admit that she doesn't know where I am.

    Once they learn how easy it is to weaponize the police, and how sacred it makes you.  They will just do it over and over again.  I pitty my ex's new man.  As far as I know I was the first guy she did this too, but now that she knows how it works...… I am sure this tactic will be deployed early and often.

    Please take care of yourself.   

[Dead Man Walking]

Zais,

  I wanted to chime again.  As I said previously, unfortunately my ex wife was able to file charges (the next day just on her say so.  no marks or bruises or any evidence).  In this case the police didn't ask for my side of the story.  That's really scary that she could do that on a whim, and could even more easily do it again.

This exact thing happened to me three years ago but I was arrested and spent three days in jail had a restraining order against me the works. The deputy that had to arrest me talked to me on the way to the jail and filled me in on that she had gone to the magistrate to file the charges on her own and the hospital claiming I had broken her arm. A deputy was sent to the hospital investigate her claim and found that she had no injuries at all. The deputy that had to arrest me said he talked to the other deputy personally and got that information. He disagreed that I was being arrested and even told the booking officers that I should not be there. He had to do his job though and was very nice about the whole thing.

It amazes me the stuff we put up with and keep going back...

[ziasquinn3000]

Hey RobinJay, hang in there. It's always easier to see things in retrospect. Always remember you are always doing the best that you can. Same as your partner or most other people with BPD, even if it can be downright "evil". Please look into DBT / RO-DBT. Those helped me with that. It helps bring down your anxieties about thinking about what else you could have done, or if there was more to do. Only think about what you can do in this moment of time. Live in the moment.

smart_storm26
Thanks for trying to peptalk. Yeah. Definitely not mature enough to do her part of getting out of the dark pit. I feel writing here helps me get things out of my head.

ForeverDad
Thank you for the insight. Mmmm, I'm not sure where on the spectrum it lies as far as "things getting better". You are absolutely right, the previous on and offs we kept getting right back to where we were. Things absolutely were better this time with our 6 months apart. Still wasn't enough time obviously and then 1 quick instance shattered it. The day to day living with her, being with her completely changed because I came back into it with good boundaries and she came back into it by going to in and out patient and finishing it! She still has underlying issues. Especially with that attitude of "Oh, I wasn't apologizing" but the day to day was mostly fine. I think that is what's important right? Living in the moment? That's what seemed to help our relationship during the past 5 months until this.

Going further on this though, about you saying closure. She actually apologized to me after I asked her a question about towing her car, she apologized for calling the cops on me. I told her that that's not really an apology and confronting what actually happened. I told her I refused to discuss anything until she said that she is the one who hit me, because I feared legal recourse. She asked if she could reply to it in a bit because she was overwhelmed. She messaged me the next day and she said she feared the same legal recourse since she hit me but she would admit to it. She said what she did was wrong and that she shouldn't have left that way, getting the police involved or starting the fight. She fully acknowledged in writing  that she hit me and invaded my personal space. She said she was in emotional distress and felt like she wanted me to hurt her so she would have a reason to leave because she felt on the edge and wanted to be pushed over. This is all stuff I  already knew, I mean I told her that's why it happened at the beginning and I didn't demonize her for it, she just can't be apart of my life because it then impacted my life and she became a liability. But it was pretty mature for it to finally come from her. -However-, this of course was followed up with asking if we are really over and she clarified not that she wants to get back together, but more that she was saddened. I told her yes and explained why it was on my side, because it was a deal breaker to call the police on me like that. I told her that I don't really know why it ended for her though. She said "I’m sorry I’m not sure what to say now" then she wished me well on my new journey and I told her it's good for closure if she can come to an understanding about why it ended for her on her side, so if she wants to talk about it I'm fine to do so. She didn't answer that and we have only been talking about the obligations we are still wrapping up.

Basically I got to say my piece, but I won't get closure from her side . So you are right! Time to pack it up and keep it moving. I know I will have to face her trying to come back into my life later because of how that panned out. Seems like she's not ready to close things out and doesn't understand she self-sabotaged the relationship because from the day to day, there really was no reason, she was on the edge from dealing with her BPD friend and then tried to use me to push her over the edge. She is just trying to escape from herself.

Overall I've been doing fine, keeping busy. I have little sad and anxious moments, but they're just moments and I let them run their course. It is still really frustrating, this whole thing because I do love her and I know she loves me but my brain and heart knows that we have to play it out like this and worry about the future later, regardless if there is one or not. There's so many compatible qualities in this woman that I really don't want to have to give up. It's why I married her ! But I know, that relationships with people like this, you have to be in a good spot yourself and the more healthy I am, the more it's shown up in our relationship as being healthy. But I also know she has to be responsible for herself and I can't hold myself hostage by having to be "the good one" all the time so she can mirror good behaviors. Ahhhh! . ALSO, not having to be soo overly mindful all the time is incredibly enticing and something I've been enjoying and looking forward to and fantasize about the new types of relationships I'll make going forward in my life with all these experiences.

LeftBehindGuy
Sorry to hear all that man. Try not to talk about yourself in that way though. Keep the positive self affirmations coming and try to look at as a learning experience. I know what it's like to be in that nightmare hole. After the first time she went to jail, a week after she got out she literally threatened me because she wasn't getting her way "I'll call the police, it's not like they'll believe you if I call them" These people act that way because of the way we carry ourselves. We have to respect ourselves. They mirror the good -and- bad in us. If we are indeed pityful, they will take that pity and regurgitate it as an unwieldy angst. There is a reason BPD are all "textbook". I don't think BPD is evil, like a NPD. They just have no clue how to keep themselves under control.

[ziasquinn3000]

Feeling pretty conflicted these days.

Like I said there are so many compatible qualities between us and what is a perfect match for me and for her. I know this is typically a fear of thinking nobody else will fill whatever the pwBPD fills. I don't know. I get conflicted because life is short, why would I not want to be with a perfect match but then also life is short why would I not want to find a perfect match that also doesn't have to fight her mind to not hit me. Since we got back together the last time and she did her inpatient treatment and finished it, things were a lot different in a consistent and non extreme way (our relationship was calm, not bursts of extreme happiness or "good things"). I keep telling myself the problems we had were due to the extreme life change of moving across the world. Also she had just lost her job in that last month and was also hanging out with the uBPD friend a lot, she actually helped commit the uBPD friend to the same treatment center because she was suicidal. We've been through enough crap to understand what we both need to be fully effective. She needs a job to keep her mind busy and positive external influences (good friends). When either of those aren't fulfilled we have problems. When they are, things are peachy and I am happy, as is she.

I'll try to keep this short so I don't ramble.

• My heart says that we need the time apart to fully get to a spot where we both let our appreciation of each other stop our other bad behaviors or to be able to move on to other people that we are more compatible with in a non-toxic way. This is a sacrifice to make in the face of my feelings, which is damn hard.
• My gut says I need to talk to her about how I feel and tell her how I would like to approach things and discuss how we can get over this hurdle. How it's a setback because of the circumstances, no job for her, across the world move. My gut says I shouldn't play games and that this isn't me begging it back. It's just being non-apologetically honest and not worry about what is conventionally "correct" and to simply have a discussion with her and play it by ear.
• My head says I need to let her take control of the situation, she needs to come to me on her terms to ask how we can work this out, because I deserve someone that is able to do that for me sometimes. My head is struggling with this one because I also know I'm the non and she isn't. Nons need to be able to take control most times and that "who's in the wrong" is not an effective way to handle these things. Whenever I disregard "who's in the wrong" the results have always been 10x more positive. This conflicts with my gut.

Either way the growth between the both of us is insurmountable. I see it, she sees it, my friends see it. I saw on Reddit the other day about a relationship that was in a spot we were 2 years ago. The non made stipulations to trying again. He would force her to take medication everyday infront of him, she had to do X or Y under his supervision, get out of bed everyday. etc. These are all things that we did. I finally learned to let go of things and let her be responsible for herself. It helped our relationship tenfold. etc. etc. It's such a shame that we finally figured out what worked for us in the day to day to have all this happen. I really don't want to put an end to it like that and she keeps reaching out to me in small genuine ways, I know she is conflicted about it ending this way too.

I ask myself why I tolerate the physical abuse. What I tell myself is that I have the notion that she will not do it again because of the progress. And it's really hard for me to separate that feeling with my codependency. I wonder if it's just codependency or if I really am using those types of codependent traits be positive things in my life, where I can quickly forgive and move forward. That that is just my tolerance level compared to other people and being challenged keeps me sharp and stimulated. At the end of the day, in the day to day I still remain happy so it should be a good thing, right?

Would really love to hear from you again @ForeverDad 

Thanks all.

[Cat Familiar]

Knowing what you now know, if you just met this woman (but somehow knew all of this), would you want to date her? Or would you pass?

[ziasquinn3000]

Good question. Date? Yeah I would. It would actually be amazing compared to being married outright. I wouldn't marry them though until several years of gf/bf. I think a woman like my wife makes someone perfect to date , because all our issues have to do with not having space when it's needed and/or us sometimes being too dependent on each other, at this point in our lives because we are both young and her much younger. I think when she's a bit older she won't have the same problems. I am always open minded to all friends and relationships which is sometimes what gets me in trouble or can build internal conflict or resentment, but I think intentfully choosing to be so open lands me in a better spot even if I get hurt. It's all about frame of mind and why this time around I wasn't devastated like in the past. Basically if I knew this was her history or another woman's history, I'd be willing to see where it went and have strong boundaries to pull out when/if the time came around especially if I knew how compatible we were. It would be worth the risk to me because I would be fulfilled in the moment to moment. I was a serial dater in the past, so I know what I want and don't want. Usually I broke things off with previous partners because I knew what I wanted. I would say she has 100 things I want versus 5 things I don't want. I guess I just don't let strong circumstances bend my will anymore and it's why I would be willing to see where it goes and not get devastated or upset at the end. I want to believe that's a healthy thing to do, but I'm unsure if it actually is and if it's just my codependency getting in the way. Do you think there is something I should ask myself when it comes to my thought process on this? I'm going to ask myself the same question you asked in another week and then in another month and see how I feel.

I tried to ask myself something similar or maybe it's not similar. I'm really having a difficult time figuring out what I should be asking myself to make a clear decision. Anyways I asked myself what would be my immediate reaction if I saw her in a week and saw her 2 years later. I think I would be very happy both scenarios and fully embrace her. What would be her reaction? I think the same.

[Cat Familiar]

Is she someone you’d want to have children with?

[ziasquinn3000]

If she kept the same progress up, yes. We had planned to have kids in 2 more years based on the rate our relationship was progressing and our own individual goals (her graduating college and me shipping my first product). If she did not progress anymore, then no. I was very firm on this. She has been asking for kids for the past 2 years but I wouldn't budge because I knew our relationship was nowhere near ready for it based on her still processing her trauma and it still affecting her life and our relationship. I wanted kids as well because my priorities changed when I figured out what was important to me, but I just simply refused because I would not expose children to these situations. Otherwise, I know she will be a really great mother. She has primarily worked in childcare and because of the compassion she is able to show me when she's capable.

[ForeverDad]

My story... While my spouse didn't start out as displaying poor behaviors, they did creep into our marriage over the years.  We were religious volunteers and we had to leave those pursuits because she was increasingly getting into conflict with those working with her.  After a few years I got the brilliant idea that she's find joy in her life if we had a a child for her to watch discovering life.  Oops, big mistake.  She promptly grew distant from me, almost as though her dilemma was, "Do I love my husband OR love my child?"  All too soon she saw it as "me and my child against the world".  Once our friends and families were increasingly driven away, I was the only target left, and she perceived that her hold over me was our child.  As it turned out, having that child triggered the implosion of our marriage because of her dysfunctional perceptions and behaviors.  Maybe our marriage would have ended anyway, eventually.  I'll never know for sure.  But I do know that having a child made a divorce (and subsequent 15 years of separate parenting) vastly more complicated and stressing.

So my question to you is... If you decide to have children with her, can you be sure that the 18 years rising a child — or the 20-25 years raising multiple children — won't be impacted negatively by her issues?

Count the cost.  Identify the risks.  "For example, who of you wanting to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it?  Otherwise, he might lay its foundation but not be able to finish it..." — Luke 14:28, 29

[ziasquinn3000]

Sorry to hear your path went down that way. To answer your question, yeah, that's kind of why I said I'd have to wait several years this time around with Cat Familiar's question. And it's why I've said no for years now about children. This past year, when she started taking care of herself, therapy, meds, in/out patient, she finally came to terms that she's not capable of children right now. Going as far as to say she should probably never have them, because she might be too selfish (good awareness right there). But through a lot of conversations and self evaluations (not just one "aha" moment) of ourselves and the relationship, that's why we had -goals- for a couple years away, something to be hopeful towards as I think anyone, bpd or not needs that in their life. But we agreed together until she was in better control of her behaviors there would be no question of children. It's ok to strive for goals though. I might be naive in other ways, but I never have or will think about children solving her or our issues. Again, I'm sorry to hear that. But let me ask this, do you think your children have learned valuable things about life, managing and communication their emotions, conflict resolution and avoidance? Are there positives you see in it? Do you feel if you were in a better space when you first had children, that it would have been greatly better for the kids regardless of what your wife did? Granted I understand 15 years is not the same as my ideal of hoping her issues have minimal impacts on our family before we get to the point of trying for family. I don't know what 10 years from now looks like and I think I would be foolish to try and predict it.

3 years ago when we got married, I think there were 3 committals, several suicide attempts, cheating, frantic push-pull cycles. 2 years ago that de-escalated to only a few major breakdowns, I did not even know that mental illness was a word when I first met her. A year ago she started taking care of me when I was dealing with a narcissist at work then lost my job shortly after because of it, then of course when the first hitting started. Things in our relationship and her as an individual and myself as an individual have only grown better with time, unlike from what it seems like most people on these boards devolve into worse situations as time goes on. However that means the meltdowns grew stronger too, even tho there were less. Stronger boundaries on my end meant bigger pushes have to come from the Non. For example last year the hitting, then a year later hitting and calling the police on me but otherwise a great year being separated then coming back together. She was diagnosed at 13 and has been in therapy all her life basically. It's night and day when you look at now to 3 years ago. The forward momentum in progress has been monumental... Tho I do acknowledge it was still physical abuse. I already forgive her because I have a slight understanding and she tried the best she was able to to take accountability for it. But it's difficult to know what to do with that understanding, since physical violence should be a deal breaker regardless. I think that if I dated this "person" Cat Familiar brings up, if there was physical violence involved once we started dating I would stop that relationship. I think my current relationship has more sunk cost fallacy into it. I guess I have to decide for myself on that tho and make sure I understand my own reasons.

My perspectives have changed a lot over these years. And hopefully they aren't clouded ones because I've lived in the tornado of a BPD relationship. But I mean, the divorce rate in America is 50% while I imagine most the other 50% stays in bad relationships for circumstances. People grow and change, year to year. I know I do. I know my wife has. I know BPD is a whole other beast... but my wife is not a sociopath intending to harm me, shouldn't they have that same chance too if it doesn't come at the expense of our wellbeing? This is what therapy treating BPD preaches. Why should I hold onto the idea or notion that, simply moving on from this relationship, using what I learned from it to better my next one, won't just have other issues? In fact, it's guaranteed they will have other problems, not to say they won't be easier ones to solve with someone without distortions, but 1.6% of people have BPD yet there's a 50% divorce rate. It's guaranteed my own views, feelings and desires will change as well. But I do understand right now in this moment what I'm going forward to, is just taking care of myself not about moving on from this relationship into what future ones hold. Once I started living by Cat Familiar's signature - “The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best.” it's had much less impact on my wellbeing and in turn being able to give her more benefit of the doubt which leads to more positive feedback loops and being forced to live that way in my individual life has caused growth in ways outside the relationship. Not to say it doesn't get tiring sometimes as I stated in a previous comment.

So I guess I'm going into this thinking about choosing my battles and I think that's what I meant when I said she has 100 things I want and 5 things I don't want.  A couple years ago it was 100 things I wanted and 99 things I didn't want. Maybe It's too pragmatic, but I think those are pretty good margins now. Is this not what living in the moment should overcome? Because in 10 years, whether it's I end things with my current wife 10 years down the road, or another wife or a girlfriend or a friend or a family member, what's the difference then compared to now? If I go into it with a good head on my shoulders there should be none. If I try my best to live and appreciate for the moment, there should be none. Well, of course unless a kid comes into the picture, but that's why I've refused it until I feel those unwanted things become better controlled, which could potentially never come and I'd be ok with that. Maybe she wouldn't tho. Or maybe I won't, later.

My battles with my current wife are the liabilities she presents me with. Going to jail, no? That's the big ticket here as I have already accepted her for what it means for her to hit me. She is a child that throws a tantrum when she hits me and then has to double down because she has a distorted fear. Once I accepted that she stopped in the past. So I wonder what would need to happen on both our ends to be effective with that. I think a question I might get here is what does that look like to me? I think in a "perfect healthy world" goes, I would see it as continuing this separation, giving us both more time to sit with ourselves then discussing if we're still interested and to then do a long distance thing with a couple or few week visits. Months apart then visits again. Rinse and repeat as we continue to grow in our individual lives and make a decision if we should continue the relationship or not later (not the marriage, that has to end right now because I think the most important thing is to actually follow through on calling the police on me is a deal breaker and at this point our dynamic has to change even if we continue the relationship)

I'm going to sit with this either way for a while longer. I have travel plans for the rest of the month to see friends and my sister, the 1 relative I can actually have in my life. I cut the rest of my 10 direct relatives (big family, brothers and sisters) out of my life, because they had 100 things I didn't want and 5 things I wanted . So I do know about moving on when a relationship is not worth it. I moved on from my family 8 years ago, they were not worth it like how I feel my wife is still worth it. Then obviously the big move is in another few weeks, so all of this stuff can wait until later as I try to come to a deeper understanding of myself and my reasonings.

I will say this, everytime I've agreed to try again with her, I haven't regretted it or felt that I lost something. Everytime I've come out stronger, a better person, more compassionate, more understanding, more patient, more loving, more self-respecting (obviously these hitting instances are dots on the wave length of things that happen in life) and more happy. Things that are important for me to be. Obviously each time there are the moments, if there weren't I think it would mean she didn't mean that much haha. I have come so damn far and I'm proud of myself. I'm awesome.

Love hearing the questions and anecdotes. Keep them coming Thanks all.

[ziasquinn3000]

She messaged me today asking how am I doing. I asked how she was as well. She said good and she has had more time to process things and wanted to talk to me about it if I would be willing to. I told her I'm glad she was able to process it more and I'd like that.

her:
I just wanted to apologize for hurting you physically and initiating that fight we had. It was wrong of me and honestly it’s a bit of a blur but it shouldn’t have happened. I also want to apologize for calling the police on you. I was desperate for a reason to run away I think and that was a solid thing that could get me to leave. I feel like if I didnt(I’m not saying it was right to do it) I would have just gone right back inside and we would have struggled for longer and longer and potentially moved overseas and we would have been worse off. I hope that makes sense. I’m not trying to justify my actions. I won’t deny the massive amount of wrong it was.

I love you and I care deeply for you.
I am really sorry to have tried to hurt you how I did

me:
I thanked her for the apology and told her I'm not really sure why she wanted a reason to run and asked if that's something she's processed yet or not.

her:
I honestly don’t believe it was a conscious need to run. I think it was a subconscious fear and desire to run away for some reason
I haven’t really figured that part out yet
Maybe it was because of the lengthy limbo period we were in. Or because I was afraid to move to Europe. I’m not sure

me:
I told her I understood and that we were both struggling with making an across the world decision. I said being in limbo is difficult for anyone, myself included.

her:
I don’t want to say anything I’ll regret but I do want to say I’m still open to meeting you there at some point if you are still interested in being together

me:
why do you think you'll regret whatever you might regret?

her:
I just mean that I don’t want to say something stupid and I feel like maybe that was a stupid thing to say
I’m not sure what your goals would be if we decided to work through this and meet up in the future

________
I snipped out some general convo that wasn't important. I told her that what she has to say is in a safe place with me. Then I told her I would think about it. I told her a few of my individual goals and I don't know what that looks like in relation to her life plan right now. Then she said sorry, but she has to go for a bit and she'll message later. I think she's at work.

To me this all seems healthy and if I don't label BPD, I don't see why it's not a path we can't discuss. I've done my grieving for a month. Am I fooling myself saying that for myself, this is enough time to process those emotions? Because I feel like they are. I know comparing these emotions to the past, they feel like it's been processed. Am I also a fool for thinking her capabilities of processing these things is better now, that it means something tangible, something of substance? Or are they just words.

I'm not really sure what relationship goals we'd need to have to navigate this. I imagine couple's therapy to help us figure out what goals we should have.

Thoughts anyone?

I'm going to see how the conversation pans out once we pick back up. I think I'm going to ask my sister for advice when I go see her for Christmas. My sister was in a marriage for 20 years with someone with uNPD. She's always told me she loved my wife, even when I've explained our issues to her. She does say it can be so much easier and we deserve simple love (her new husband) but she still thinks good of my wife.

[Cat Familiar]

As you’ve been posting your story for nearly a month, you’ve gone from saying that your life was “almost ruined” to speculating on areas of compatibility and it seems with your recent post that you might be thinking of reconciling with her before you move overseas.

That’s a lot to process in four weeks. How are you doing?

[ziasquinn3000]

I'm doing fine, pretty good in general. This changes none of my personal plans. While it's a little annoying not knowing and having conflicted feelings about what the best thing to do is, It's not causing me emotional suffering. While I am still invested into the situation overall, I'm treating it more as a sidebar right now while I take care of what I need to.

The only thing I think that's difficult to process is the "life almost ruined" because my life was not ruined. If I actually went to jail, this would be an entirely different thread post and my line of thinking would be different to. But that's just not what happened. So maybe I should act as if that were the case and move on for good or to be effective I can act as if that's another possibility in the future, which means more boundaries and ways to keep myself safe while also taking into account the type of progress she's having on her own. I don't know.

[ForeverDad]

It is not unusual for a period of separation or distance to calm the chaos and conflict.  BPD is so much a disorder of emotional dysregulation with those closest to them.  If you're not close for a while and things start to feel upbeat, then you need to consider the possibility that getting back together again could eventually result in a return to the prior patterns.  And in time you could discover you're right back to where you were before.  Have you considered that distance factor as a connection to the seeming improved perspective?

[ziasquinn3000]

No, it's not unusual like you say. But like I said at the very beginning there wasn't chaos and conflict. This thing was out of left field. There were a few small issues such as the immaturity in the month leading up to this, due to her uBPD friend, but other than that we were having a really good relationship since we started trying again. And from what she is saying and what I had guessed, the overseas move freaked her out along with us both being unemployed a conflict occurred. As I said in earlier posts, chaos ensues when certain criteria aren't met because we had figured out what those were and with her losing her job with no day to day purpose and hanging out way too much with a negative friend (instead of her positive friends) things went by the wayside.

I don't think the distance has changed my perspectives. The main issue has been the whole liability thing, does this person, my wife have the potential to now put me in jail. At first I was reacting pretty intensely to that and needed to immediately distance myself to avoid that kind of outcome. So I wonder where I should go from there since I think my perspectives from the beginning of this conflict have remained the same? That we were doing good for the most part, aside from some tolerable things that arised from a situation that would make any normal person stressed out, because I know I was. Do you think this should actually be considered a pattern?

I understand what you're saying tho, because I have been exactly in that position like 3 other times when we've had the on and offs again. This doesn't feel like that.

[ziasquinn3000]

I think another important piece of the puzzle here, what's different from how I feel now and my first post. How important is it to me that someone hit me, then called the police on me and "got away with it". That if I did not put a stop to everything and make it a deal breaker, I was deemed unworthy. That she or myself would never respect me. Was that a wrong line of thinking at the beginning? Did I invest too much stock into that perspective? Should I focus more on my midway posts, where I talk about choosing my battles and accepting her for what she is? Or am I letting myself be walked over if that's not a deal breaker? I wonder how I can tell.