His awful hygiene is killing me

[Perdita]

Rather not read this if you are eating or about to eat. Or if you are freaked out even somewhat easily.

I am keeping this short because I feel sick after what I discovered. I am also going to say it straight out. I have posted before about what a pig he is around the house. It's worse than I thought.

I have suspected for some time that after he poops he doesn't wipe and instead showers to clean himself. We use the same shower. I recently was able to confront him with the evidence. Empty toilet roll when he went in to be seated and new roll remained sealed- after that he showered. He admitted that it's true and apologized saying he will never do it again. That was a month ago max.

This morning I woke up and a foul odour hit me. He was still sleeping. When he got up he took a shower. Hours later I was ready to go shower too. I opened the shower door and it stank.  I looked and found sh*t in the shower. Not speckles - actual t*rds. Runny due to the fact that he pooped in the shower last night and that's what hit me in the morning.  This means he showered this morning with it still in there.

I am so disgusted by him. Who does this?  He is out of town until tomorrow night. He called twice today but I didn't answer because I felt sick.  The image just comes back to me that much stronger at the thought of speaking to him.

The drain in the shower always has a odour and it's been much worse lately.  I don't shower until I have disinfected the floor tiles. I have even mentioned to him several times the past week that the drain is really stinking.  He said nothing.

Clearly,  he poops in the shower often which means he must urinate in there too. I am not sleeping at the house tonight.  I simply closed the bathroom door and left soon after. He can clean his own sh*t when he gets back.  I took a photo and will send it to him later   I don't even know what to say to him.  Actually,  I am in shock at his despicable lack of hygiene - and respect for me.

[Cat Familiar]

What keeps you in the relationship? I don’t remember you ever detailing any positives. Are there any?

[Perdita]

There are positives,  but a lot of that has faded over time. Despite everything he use to make me laugh a lot, but not nearly as much anymore.  The level of mental illness keeps turning out to be worse than I thought. He has been under the care of a psychiatrist since July, but I doubt the doctor even realizes how bad things are.

[formflier]

Wow.  Does this feeling like a turning point to you?

When he admitted he did this, did he say why?

Best,

FF

[Perdita]

Formflier,

Yes, it feels like a turning point.

We've been having rows about the way he constantly messes things up around the house and I end up cleaning it while he accuses me of being abnormal for wanting the house to be clean. Now it is really out there that he's a pig and that he's been dumping in the shower throughout the year.

He apologized last night via message after I send him a photo.   He wanted to talk but I told him I am not ready to discuss it and we'll talk when he's back in town.  He said that he is embarrassed that "I left you to deal with that". My reply was for him not to worry as I didn't deal with it and the mess is waiting for him to deal with when he gets back.

[once removed]

Now it is really out there that he's a pig and that he's been dumping in the shower throughout the year.

it really is.

this is a pretty significant issue, one that would, i think by any measure, indicate a significant mental health problem.

What keeps you in the relationship?

i guess what im wondering...

okay. its out there. theres no arguing it.

whats next?

[formflier]

Remind me again the status of his mental health treatment?

Since this isn't the first time this has come up and he has "failed" to fix it before, what kind of boundaries are you ready to enforce to not live with this kind of thing.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

Is it his something his psychiatrist can be made aware of? It is significant enough to be addressed by his mental health team.

[formflier]

Is it his something his psychiatrist can be made aware of? It is significant enough to be addressed by his mental health team.

and he should be open with you about "compliance".

If he isn't open to either of these, what boundaries are you ok with?

Best,

FF

[Perdita]

Once Removed, I will know what next tonight when he's back.  I send him a message telling him that I want to be at home when he cleans up because I simply no longer trust him not to do something bad while cleaning (like using my kitchen towels or using boiling water direct from the kettle - I fear spatted onto the kettle in that case. It will freak me out not knowing.)

GaGrl, I have never spoken to his psychiatrist and think it will only make things worse. He needs to bring it up himself.

FF, the psychiatrist has him on different medication to what the GP rather foolishly had him on. He thinks there is nothing more to gain from seeing the psychiatrist.  Clearly the doctor disagrees and sees him monthly.

My first boundary right now is that I didn't clean up his sh*t. It would be a different matter if he were ill with a severe bug or something and dhad an accident he was unable to clean himself.  This is not the case though.

Yes, it bothers me that things got worse after we discussed.  It seems almost spiteful and I suspect he has been urinating in the tub in my bathroom out of spite - I have been struggling to get it to smell fresh in there despite my efforts.

[Perdita]

The psychiatrist has his condition coded from the first visit as bipolar. I know he also has bpd because after 7 years and close to 6 on this board, I have no doubts.  I think the psychiatrist possibly also suspects there's more to his issues than just bipolar.

The thing that has my blood boiling now is that he agreed this morning not to clean until I was home to. He went back on that.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Perdita-

I’m so so sorry... his behavior has more than crossed a hard boundary.  And If he has violated his word on this cleaning issue, does that mean he “cleaned” before you came home?  If that’s the case, I believe you’ve got the right to request that he HONOR his word and clean again in your presence.  Is he looking to be a toddler begging for a mother to admonish and “punish” him?  What is this?  Why even allow yourself to be placed in such a demeaning position?

Your values, Your boundary.

He has violated a most basic human decency rule... one we learn as toddlers; not to mention the despicable unsanitary aspects of these acts.  I’m not certain how or IF I would handle a continuing relationship if my man were to behave like this.  Turning point?  Uh, yea.  I’m not certain I could even see my man as an adult partner after an act like this. 

I’ve forgiven a LOT, but this?  Some things are beyond reason.

I just don’t know... wow.  My friend, I am so sorry...

Gems

[Perdita]

Hi Gems.  Thanks for the support.  Not exactly a topic one can discuss with family and friends.

He got rid of the poop before I got back home. He admitted that he shoved it down the shower drain.  I guess that by then - 2 days of it being in the shower - there wasn't much else he could do.  I am so glad I didn't sleep here last night. Took my dog and left.

Once I was here he went to work on scrubbing the shower with bleach.  I made sure he tossed away the brushes and rags he used. He says he is going to get jeyes fluid to get rid of what's in the drain pipes.

He has pretty much had his head down the whole time,  not looking me in the eye and saying there is no excuse.  I told him a moment ago that it's not only about poop, but also about the fact that we recently discussed this and he gave me his word it would never happen again. He broke that trust when he took a dump in the shower .  He obviously thought he got it all down the drain the other night. If he hadn't missed those 2 t*rds he would still be doing it.  It's been about getting away with it all along. I hope he has learned from this, but he has always been a slow learner.

I reminded him that I have cuts on my feet from hiking that are still healing and that what he's been doing could have led to an infection.  Fortunately I have been pretty good about scrubbing the shower floor before showering,  but this was precisely because I feared he might be pooping in there due to the foul odour from the drain that I haven't been able to get rid of.

[formflier]

I also want to extend some hugs  

Not really a good vibe to put yourself in the position of "the verifier"  

It's one thing to have a partner in need and help them out because they can't bend or otherwise gain access or see "down there".

It's another for a physically fine person to decide that "sanitary rules" don't apply to them AND  that they won't clean up after themselves

I'm not trying to excuse the act of doing it in the shower deliberately (which it seems is the case).

Listen (boy aren't we going to get to know each other now).  FF is retired Navy and has had some lovely tropical diseases/parasitic infections as a result of some of my adventures.  Lovely stuff.

Anyway...I've had "explosions" where I decided I was better off cleaning up in the shower and I've also had some things suddenly come on "IBS type stuff" while I was in the shower.

These things happen.

You clean up these things.

So, maybe it's over analysis, but I'm more focused on the "leaving it" than it happened in the first place (or is a pattern of behavior)

This obviously indicates major mental dysfunction.  

I would really approach it from that angle.  Either he is or isn't going to deal with the "mental dysfunction".  

If he isn't (or continues not to)...that's really the boundary question to evaluate.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

  If he hadn't missed those 2 t*rds he would still be doing it.  It's been about getting away with it all along.  

What else is he hiding from you?

What else has he told you he is NOT doing, yet he actually is?

I just came back and read this, and somehow missed the deception part.  Active long term deception.

That's worse than leaving it.

So sorry you are dealing with this.

Best,

FF

[Perdita]

FF, I agree that this is part of a serious mental issue and I told him so. He was quiet for a while and then replied that mental illness isn't an excuse for what he's been doing. I told him that this is something that needs to stop and that stopping it will help him to manage at least part of his illness.

I hear what you are saying about physical illness causing this sometimes.   We've all had a bug at some point that caught us off guard. He made a massive mess in his old bathroom years ago when he was sick and shooting out both ends. He cleaned up after himself as best he could and I cleaned what he was too sick to finish. Hardly romantic stuff, but that's life sometimes.   

What he's been doing the past year in our new place has been deliberate.  I think he does it because it's easier for him.  How taking a dump in the shower instead of the toilet is easier is beyond me, but there you go . He is someone that looks for short cuts in everything and inevitably he ends up worse off for it.  In this case it affects me too. We have 2 bathrooms, one has a tub and the other a shower. I always shower and 9/10 he does too. The rest of that bathroom I never use.

[Perdita]

What else is he hiding from you?

What else has he told you he is NOT doing, yet he actually is?

I just came back and read this, and somehow missed the deception part.  Active long term deception.

FF, this is exactly it. He will carry on with unacceptable behavior as long as he can get away with it.  It destroys my trust in him.

[Cat Familiar]

To go back to your first post, you suspect he doesn’t wipe. Perhaps there’s some weird toilet training issue that he missed out on, or perhaps it’s something even more sinister from his childhood.

He needs to buy a bidet toilet seat if he doesn’t want to wipe.

It’s almost unbelievable and unbearable that an adult would have this issue.

How are you doing? It must have been so shocking finding out why the shower smelled so bad.

[formflier]

Trying to pause her and make sure nothing gets missed.

Most likely this is the deliberate thing we think it is...but what if it's not?

This is the kind of thing where there should be no assumptions.

I'm trying really hard here to be empathetic and "give the benefit of the doubt".

Look at it this way. 

I can't imagine this is something that can be handled without his entire medical team working through this.

Make sure all his stuff is physically working the way it should, no (fill in the blank).

I'm sure his mental health team will want to know before they start working through this if the is a "real" physical issue.

Last:

Zero chance I would ever want Perdita to be the "police" on his wiping/bathroom issues. 

If he really wants to change, he will do all the works ups needed.  If he balks, he wants to go back to hiding this (and other) stuff.

Is there really any other way to approach this?

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

FF, I agree -- that's why I wondered if his psychiatrist should be told. Perdita doesn't have a relationship with the psychiatrist, so it's going to be up to him to disclose. And he doesn't disclose to Perdita, so...hmmmmm...

[formflier]

Those of you guys that know me often remember me trying to stay away from dichotomous choices.

However, in this situation I'm advising Perdita that you are at a turning point.

1.  Full disclosure, full access, full workout from GP all that way up to psychiatrist to make sure there is no (colon cancer, IBS, polyps...etc etc etc)  Honestly I kinda hope something "is found".

2.  If you want to play sh*tty games, do play them in another house.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[Perdita]

Most likely this is the deliberate thing we think it is...but what if it's not?

This is the kind of thing where there should be no assumptions.

I'm trying really hard here to be empathetic and "give the benefit of the doubt".

FF, I have thought about it. He does have heartburn for which he takes a pill everyday. He smokes like a chimney which definitely aggrevates the heartburn. In addition to that,  I have never known anyone to eat as much junk food in my life- despite the fact that I cook for us.

This said.  When he was in his 20s he worked as a landscaper and has shared with me over the years stories of how he used to take a dump in the gardens he took care of.  This may seem like one of those things if it weren't for the fact that he regularly did it in his own garden as well up to a year ago (I am assuming this has now stopped as I take care of the garden and haven't yet stumbled onto droppings).

A couple of weeks ago we were out and when we got back home I  told him that I  need to go straight to the loo because my bladder is full.  He replied that he also needs the bathroom but that I can use the toilet and he will go in the garden.  I was stunned at this and reminded him that we have 2 toilets.  He simply said "oh yes".  After a year in this place he should not be forgetting that.

I can't imagine this is something that can be handled without his entire medical team working through this.

This morning he was mean again about all of this telling me that he's not insane and that I need to stop talking about his mental illness and trying to convince him he has issues.   This from the person who for years has gaslighted me so badly that I thought I was insane (for instance,  saying something upsetting and then immediately after I would repeat his exact words back to him and ask him why he just said it and he'd look at me and tell me he never said it and that he is concerned about me as "you always make things up in your head and believe yourself").  Also, I would witness things that he would then tell me didn't happen and then tell me that he's worried about me.  He is the only person I "imagine " things around.  Never have had this with anyone else in my life.

Zero chance I would ever want Perdita to be the "police" on his wiping/bathroom issues. 

Monday morning before he left to go out of town (hours before I discovered his poop in the shower), I told him that I want to be his partner not his caregiver.

Let me give additional background.  On Sunday I tried once again to have an adult conversation with him.  I told him that I can't handle constantly cleaning up after him. My fibro has flared up again recently and I can link it directly to never getting a chance to simply rest or enjoy my own hobbies.  I am the man and the overworked maid in the house.  When I told him that he needs to clean up after himself, he shouted at me "f off***, why is this my problem?" There is simply no talking to him like an adult.  He makes me feel crazy because it's impossible to have an adult conversation about any issue.

I feel he pooped extra bad in the shower that night, Sunday, to punish me. Only this time he missed quite a bit of it and got caught out.  BTW, he has done disrespectful things over the years and then said "that's your punishment for" some stupid thing.   His "punishments" tend to revolve around me catching him doing things he shouldn't.

If he really wants to change, he will do all the works ups needed.  If he balks, he wants to go back to hiding this (and other) stuff.

 
I know he hides a lot of stuff.  It scares me to think about what else there might be.

[once removed]

This morning he was mean again about all of this telling me that he's not insane and that I need to stop talking about his mental illness and trying to convince him he has issues.

it sounds like hes said this a few times.

do you think he might be trying to say theres a reason he does this, but that he hasnt been clear on what it is yet?

[Perdita]

To go back to your first post, you suspect he doesn’t wipe. Perhaps there’s some weird toilet training issue that he missed out on, or perhaps it’s something even more sinister from his childhood.

The thing is that his sister and brother are so different from him.  They are very capable and hands on people.  His sister's children are now young adults newly out the nest  and very well adjusted respectable and respectful, and focused.  His best friend even told their mom a year ago that he can't believe he is even related to his siblings as they are so different.

He needs to buy a bidet toilet seat if he doesn’t want to wipe.

Honestly, he won't use it. Will be too much trouble gor him.

t’s almost unbelievable and unbearable that an adult would have this issue.

How are you doing? It must have been so shocking finding out why the shower smelled so bad.

I agree that an adult should not be carrying on like this!

I am trying to cope with his actions and his attitude about it, but he's making it hard and this morning went into full victim mode.

He told me I need to leave the house for a few days so that he can relax without having to clean up after himself.  This fills me with horror.  He was also angry that I told him last night that he broke my trust in him and told me he doesn't want to hear about that anymore.

[Perdita]

it sounds like hes said this a few times.

do you think he might be trying to say theres a reason he does this, but that he hasnt been clear on what it is yet?

Once Removed, if he had an excuse he would have not only told me by now, but he would be using it to make me feel bad.   That's the way he is.

He uses his mental issues as an excuse when it suits him but then at other times refuses to acknowledge that he has a problem.   I am started to think that he is mostly being manipulative when he hides behind his mental illness and that he refuses to acknowledge the things that really are strongly related to his mental health.

[Notwendy]

Perdita, like many behaviors, I think our part is to decide our own boundary with it. We can't control what someone else does, whether it is pooping in the shower, or anything else.

Our part is- ask yourself- is this something you can tolerate. Even if he promises to stop?

He can blame his mental illness, but even a toddler knows to poop in the potty, not the shower, or anywhere else. 

IMHO, I think one has to be pretty disturbed to do this on a regular and deliberate basis. Even if he had a medical issue that caused him to lose control- an adult would take care of it and clean it up, not leave it and do it regularly.

So the question now is- what do you want to do about this? Can you entertain romantic thoughts about this man now that you know he is intentionally doing this?

[formflier]

what do you want to do about this?

That's the real question, because I'm going to bet until he sees/experiences his world changing...that there is ZERO chance that he will want to change anything about himself, let alone this (whatever we call it) thing he does in the shower.

Reading his comments, it says to me that it's not his problem and he is not ok with you having a problem with it.  (do I about have his attitude right?)

Best,

FF

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 2 is located here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341616.msg13091704#msg13091704

Thank you.