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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Frankee
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« on: December 10, 2019, 11:56:33 AM »

I thought it was time to make a new post and get others feedback on how they are dealing.  I spent many years posting on here getting help to do with my ex that has serious mental issues.  When I first left I was lost a shell of a person, hurt.  I spent the next few months healing, rebuilding, finding myself again, staying strong.  Trying to find new passions and happiness in life.  What I knew was hiding beneath the surface was a sleeping monster.  The sleeping monster in myself.

I was talking to my girlfriend not too long ago.  Telling her the things I've been through and how I'm still standing.  Wondering even to myself how I'm not even more seriously messed up then I feel.  My ex treated me worse than anyone in my entire life.  I felt like a pillar of strength these last few months recovering from all the trauma.  But something has happened.  The amount of rage, anger, resentment, distaste I feel towards him scares me sometimes.

We got into a fight today.  Not like the ones in the past.  Something he said I took as him snapping at me.  Next thing I know we're screaming at each other.  I felt like all the times before that he made me feel so weak and scared of what he would do to me came back full force and I went a little psycho.  It was an adrenaline rush I had.  When he got in my face I lost it.  I turned into something like tasmanian devil on crack.  Anyways, we stopped and talked, but left still angry at each other. 

I cried.  Not because of him scaring me, but because of my behavior.  All the past trauma came flooding back.  I cried to the sky how unfair it was where he calls me damaged.  Like having a mirror held up in your face to show you all your wrongdoings.. with the person holding the mirror is the one that had inflicted such damage.  A person that is pointing out your bad behavior and your anger is the main source of why you feel this way.

Maybe this post was rambling, but hopefully it makes sense in a way.  How do you heal from such things when you have to look at the person that did those things and be okay?
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 03:12:10 PM »

It’s not easy and it will take some time. Are you doing therapy? That can really help to speed up the process.

When I first came here, I had been out of my relationship with an abuser for many years. But then I got together with a really nice guy and some of the BPD behaviors started happening again, but not the abuse, we’ll maybe some verbal abuse, but it was nothing like what I had experienced from my first husband, the abuser.

But I was so angry. It was like all the unprocessed emotions from that first marriage came flooding back and overwhelmed me.

I had done some therapy after my divorce and thought I was good, and felt relatively free of my past. But when I realized I had married yet another pwBPD, I was furious. Far more angry than what his behavior warranted.

Therapy helped. Being here and posting helped. Acknowledging all that anger helped. And over time, I realized I was no longer so angry. It took a while. I don’t know of any other way to let feelings go than to give them expression.

That said, how you do that, doesn’t have to be to the person involved. Chances are they won’t hear it and respond the way you hope, as you’ve already found out.

Writing is a great way for me to express those feelings. Telling them to a counselor is also good. If you can find a woman’s group, that might be a good place to share. Or a 12 step program, such as Al Anon. Lastly, sharing with friends is a possibility, but do this sparingly, as you don’t want to burn out your friends.

It’s difficult because you share a bio son and your older son with him, so he will always be somewhat in your life.

Best to give distance to those feelings when you’re around him. That way you won’t have a “feelings hangover” after expressing them to him.

I’m glad you gave us an update. I was wondering how you’re doing.
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 04:58:07 PM »

I hate that feelings hangover.  I compare them to a night of extreme partying where you wake up feeling like you got hit by a train.  I try to prevent that feelings from building up to where they explode and I am left to suffer the after effects.  I reached out to my counselor today.  I missed her callback but going to get an appointment set up.  After the episode I had earlier and then crying my eyes out.  I realized I needed to figure this out.  I obviously still harbor intense emotions. 

What I struggle with a lot is my ex says that he is doing better, he is becoming a better person, he is constantly making improvements.. yet it seems I am getting worse.  He asked me if I was in love with who he use to be because it seems I don't love the better improved version and if I did, then it makes me very damaged.  Damaged.. funny he should call me that.   

It's hard when someone inflicted such harm suddenly "does better" and then want to get mad when the one they hurt starts lashing back at them.  What stings even more, is he has.  I have seen vast improvements in his behavior and I see myself as this angry tornado.

It's like there is no true escape from the damage he did.    I was a broken shell, now I scare myself with how angry I become with him.. like I am him when he got so angry before.  Uncontrolled.  He seems to be the only one that brings it out in me.  I do need an actual healing plan.  I don't want to keep holding on to the pain.
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 05:16:22 PM »

Be aware that when someone is constantly pointing out to you how much they have changed, comparing their "new" behavior with yours, and labeling you such things as "damaged"...that is NOT an indication of a true change of heart, mind, or behavior.

Maybe he is able to get it together for the periods of time in which you have contact. That does not mean the change you see is sustainable.

It's also understandable (though certainly not preferable) that you are being extremely triggered and react with anger. Your feelings were suppressed for a long time because you were not able to freely feel, process, or express emotion. Trauma-focused therapy will help you with that, but in the meantime, try to keep interaction with him brief, informative, friendly, and firm. Don't get baited into discussions about who is more or less damaged, or who is behaving better than whom, or questions about which version of him you loved. It will not be productive. It is very likely to be destructive.

I felt very similar when I first left my marriage. For three months I had no contact at all, and when I did resume low contact, and then increased contact, I suddenly was triggered by almost anything he said and I bristled at his evaluations of me and judgments of how I shoud be/not be affected by the things I had experienced- things that he had put me through. It was more deflection- look at her, not me. I did not begin to settle down emotionally until I had been in trauma therapy for around six months, and even now, the sight of him is enough to send me into a full blown panic attack. It takes time.
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 11:33:07 AM »

Frankee having those kind of conversations with your ex are only ever going to end badly. How could they not such was the abusive dynamic you were caught up in.

To recover, and stop being triggered, for me it’s about not engaging with your ex on anything other than the absolutely necessary; child care arrangements, financials.

You can’t be No Contact which is what is usually advised on the detaching  boards, but you are in control of reducing your contact/conversations to ‘just about the children.’

I Am Redeemed is right, the minute you engage in THOSE conversations they are only ever going to end badly, the cycle of abuse doesn’t end because you left, it ends when you protect yourself with boundaries to block him emotionally. To change the interaction between you. JADE is still applicable here, as is BIFF.
Use the tools and skills you learnt here to keep on protecting yourself, you are going to need to keep applying them for as long as you are in contact with him.

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Frankee
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 09:05:05 AM »

It's also understandable (though certainly not preferable) that you are being extremely triggered and react with anger. Your feelings were suppressed for a long time because you were not able to freely feel, process, or express emotion.
I was talking to my friend the other day again and was telling her how easy I am to snap at him.  She put it in a way describing the type of environment I had been in for so long.  That his repeated behavior had almost conditioned a reaction out of me before.  Now when he exhibits the same behavior towards me, I snap and start growling because I expect to be figuratively kicked.

It makes sense in a way.  I am not the same person I was when I left him and now when he talks to me/acts towards me in a certain way, I go into fight mode and put up this huge defense mechanism, preparing for the worse.  I find I don't do it on purpose most of the time, just happens.  I already promised myself that I would never go back to being how I was.

Be aware that when someone is constantly pointing out to you how much they have changed, comparing their "new" behavior with yours, and labeling you such things as "damaged"...that is NOT an indication of a true change of heart, mind, or behavior.
He use to tell me I was "justifying" my actions.  I came to realize the other day he was doing it.  I mean I know he was doing it before but had one instance when it was just like a light bulb in my head.  He asked me when was I scared.  I told him about the night he pulled up the knife and tried to get me to stab him.  He justified his actions by what I was "not" doing.  I was not helping him and I was already killing him.  I could not contain the look of surprise when he said that.

Stepping away and outside of the situation has given me a fresh perspective.  It gave me the breathing room I needed to really analyze what was happening.  Things he says now do still hurt and sometimes make me cry.  Just now I am able to do self care and have a better support system.  I am going to start counseling again after the holidays.  I am doing better, but I can see ugly behaviors coming from me that I don't like and I know it's the Aftershock of everything.
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 10:12:45 AM »

How was your Christmas, Frankie?

I think it’s great that you’re going to return to counseling in the new year. Relationships involving abuse can really leave a lot of residue, as you’ve discovered.

I was dealing with residual anger long after I had split up with my ex, and I didn’t have children with him, so it was a clean break.

Finally I realized that my anger was not serving me. In fact, it was narrowing my options. And that was yet another way my ex was hurting me, even though he was no longer in my life. It took time and mindfulness to let it go. I thanked my anger when I realized it was a part of me that wanted to protect me. I no longer needed it when I transformed that intention into having good boundaries.
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 03:42:45 PM »

Hi Frankee,

How are you? How was your Christmas?

First of all, I would like to remind you on the huge progress you made this year, you really, really!  should feel proud of yourself!
I believe that many on this forum are proud of you, hug: Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

When it comes to the recent events, please do not be too harsh on yourself. Actually it is just natural that all those bottled feelings of anger must come out. However, ‘ discussions’ with your ex PD  won’t help - they will just fuel the anger, and should be avoided by all means. Moreover, those discussions might be be feeding his ego/ dysfunction, on your cost. Unfortunately, many PDs tend to seek any attention, good or bad.

I echo the excellent proposals you already got on this forum, from Cat and many others, i e. do not get into any discussions with him, apart the ones related strictly to your kids or financial support or such. Be firm and keep the conversations short and matter- focused only.

You might want to practice in advance the discussions you must have with him, like a script ( E.g. Frankee will say this, then he might say a,b,c ...and plan your response to each of the options, always protecting your boundaries), that would limit the chance of you getting emotionally triggered/ damaged.

What you could do with all the righteous anger you feel? I know that you have very limited time and resources, but could you e.g. take boxing lessons?  Or run? Often physical exercise might help.
Or maybe you just want to dance alone, listening empowering music? (  e.g. Freya Ridings ‘ Castles’ - ,very populat here in Europe at the moment, and based on the lyrics seems that Freya has had some similar experiences, too).

Keep strong and keep on posting,

Warm regards

Vincenta











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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2019, 04:48:40 PM »

Ps.  Just a tiny note in addition - Frankee, am sorry, actually when it comes to my recommendation for an empowering song like Freya  Ridings’s - so yes, Freya’s song is good, but the video of the song ( that I just watched) is shockingly bad, old- fashioned and disappointing - lack of imagination, just mainly showing women/girls piling up, wearing pretty clothes, dancing or laying on the roofs or streets of London (?)

You might want to watch the official lyric video of that song instead.

However, dear Frankee, dance away, box away, jog away, talk away, write away... - do whatever that will release your tension and anger.
And we are here, so keep on posting!
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2020, 02:39:27 PM »

Hi Frankee,

Has been a while - how are you doing?

Warmly,

Vincenta





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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2020, 04:32:52 PM »

Be aware that when someone is constantly pointing out to you how much they have changed, comparing their "new" behavior with yours, and labeling you such things as "damaged"...that is NOT an indication of a true change of heart, mind, or behavior.

Lundy Bancroft in his book, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" says pointing out the great strides on has made to a partner is an indicator that the person has not changed.  Taking pride in doing what should have been done from the start.

For instance, many BPDs are violent and abusive.  Can you see the absurdity of a man saying, "See?  I am doing better!  I don't call you c*nt anymore, and I no longer give you black eyes."

We can only look at ourselves and see the changes we have made.

Hugs, Frankee.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

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Frankee
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2020, 12:02:26 PM »

Lundy Bancroft in his book, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" says pointing out the great strides on has made to a partner is an indicator that the person has not changed.

For instance, many BPDs are violent and abusive.  Can you see the absurdity of a man saying, "See?  I am doing better!  I don't call you c*nt anymore, and I no longer give you black eyes."
He literally said this today.  "I am doing better, as long as I don't call you a c*my or b*tch, you can't talk to me the way you do".  "I don't deserve to be treated like this".

Reality of the situation is that a lot of the truths I kept to myself that I didn't tell him before, I am telling him now, and he doesn't like what he hears. 

I realize he his trying to manipulate the situation in a different way.  I am back to seeing him do the "I am trying, I am doing this, I am doing that, I am going to counseling, I write little notes to remind myself not to talk to you this way.. what are you doing?  What are you doing to move forward?".   I quietly contemplate and I don't argue.

I see great change in myself.  The change I see, he sees for the worst.  I am recognizing what he is doing.  I am processing the emotions as they come.  I am crying, raging, talking to myself.  I vent while listening to my favorite music.  I need to get back on track with the gym because that really was helping.  I am telling him how I feel in a non-aggressive manner, but he just doesn't like what I am saying. 

I have been working very hard to put my life together, to make something out of my life.  Not just for myself and selfish reasons, but for the boys.  I have decided to go back to school to a degree and a real job. 

All of the obstacles that have been put in front of me, with him, school, work, anything.  I study it and I always find a way to get around it.  Nothing will stop me from going after my dream, nothing will stop me from getting a better life for the kids, nothing will stop me from being a better Mom for them.  Not him, not his BS, not anything that seems too hard.  I've worked to hard to get where I am.  I still have a lot of healing, but the change I see is that I am resilient, strong, unstoppable, and still give love to those around me.

I needed to say that, for myself.  I needed to remind myself of who I am and not who he is trying to make me be.
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2020, 06:59:17 PM »

Hi Frankee,

Thanks for the update.
You should be soo proud of you!
That is the way to go!
And your kids will be so proud, too.

Sending many hugs from afar,  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Stay strong,

Warm regards,

Vincenta

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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2020, 11:05:22 AM »


Frankee,

Massive applause from me for the direction you are taking your life and your family's life in.

Good...hard..work on your part.




Reality of the situation is that a lot of the truths I kept to myself that I didn't tell him before, I am telling him now, and he doesn't like what he hears. 
 

Perhaps I'm not understanding this correctly.

What kind of truths are you telling him?  For what purpose? 

Will these truths help you coparent better?

If he wanted to share similar things with you, are you open to this?

Best,

FF

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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2020, 12:07:01 PM »

I guess my filter has been removed a little bit when dealing with him.  That little voice in my head that says, "you shouldn't say that" seems to have taken a break.  Been a little too honest with my feelings.  It mostly happens when he says something and I don't argue with him, I agree.

Just little small things where I use to reassure him that everything was okay and that we would fix it and work through it and now I'm just like.. nope, you're right, not going to argue.  I sometimes scream to myself in my head not to JADE.  It is hard when someone is badgering you, trying to knock you down.

I have counseling today at 2.  The biggest thing I am going to talk to her about is this festering anger, resentment, and rage.  I have a lot of it.  The more I have to deal with him, the harder it is to control.  I don't want to become him, out of control anger.  I think about the things he has done and then his infractions in current situations, lead to a very explosive combination in my head.  I know I have to learn to co-parent, but right now, even the slightest impression of him getting an attitude sets off a mini bomb in my head.

The anger and rage I feel now is because I look back at all the times he did and said those things and I can't believe I put up with it for so long.  I can't believe I kept staying with him after so much abuse.  He gave me a black eye and almost broke my eye socket after beating the crap out me in a scummy hotel room.  How can I ever forgive him for things like that.  I should have never gone back.. ever.  I thought I forgave him, but I really didn't.  I was still numb from the pain.  Now it seems to have come back in full force in this ugly rage.  Only towards him, it is only directed towards him.  He is the one that hurt me.  I'm not going to make others pay for what he did.
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2020, 12:38:12 PM »

Here’s a resource on domestic violence from our library: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61403.0

If you haven’t read it, Frankee, I suggest you do. It will help you understand why you’ve been feeling so much anger toward your ex.

It’s been years since I’ve been out of my abusive first marriage and in reading over this material I was shocked at how many behaviors he manifested were on that list.

What has helped me regarding the anger I experienced after leaving that relationship was understanding that during the time I was in that marriage, it was too dangerous for me to express those feelings and I had to stuff them. So after I got out and it was safe, I had years of anger surfacing.

Best to realize that you did your best at the time to protect yourself and your boys.
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2020, 01:29:02 PM »

I guess my filter has been removed a little bit when dealing with him.  That little voice in my head that says, "you shouldn't say that" seems to have taken a break.  

If you are removing your filter for "current event"..the "here and now"...I suspect this is actually a very very healthy thing.

You being clear and assertive about your boundaries and feelings...get's thumbs up from FF all day long.

Like you, I have lots of stored up anger at FFw and anger at myself for where I took the relationship (out of ignorance).

It can be hard to distinguish who I am really angry about sometimes (me or her).

In my relationship, it's unlikely my wife will ever understand or see my point of view of "the bad times".  This history is really for me to process...forgive my wife..forgive myself and make sure I have the lessons learned.  I'm not even going to suggest this work is "all done" for me.  It seems to come up at the oddest times.

Anyway...be strong Frankee.  I'm really proud of you!

Best,

FF
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2020, 08:21:13 AM »

I appreciate all the support and feedback.  I am going to read over that message board.  My counseling appt went well.  I was honest.  Told her that I have a lot of festering anger, resentment towards him and I am finding it very difficult to contain my animosity towards him.

He said something yesterday that really got me thinking.  It was said sarcastically.  That he gets it, he was so horrible before that now he has to pay for what he's done for the rest of him life.  Continued on to say how at least I wasn't locked in a cage, raped, beaten, forced into a gladiator arena in jail, etc.  Said something about the time he gave me a black eye, and was like, oh well I guess I never got a black.  I had the solid feeling he was down playing what he did to me because he had worse done to him.

First off, that's just plain messed up.  Secondly what I have come to realize is that those people that hurt him are long gone.  They are either dead (his dad) or they are just a distant bad memory.  Me, the person that hurt me so bad is still in my life, looking at me, raising my kids with me, in my life every day.  It's someone that I trusted with my heart, try to have a family with and loved more than anyone.  That's what he doesn't understand.  It isn't just the act of abuse, it's also the fact that this is someone that promised to take care, cherish, love, and protect me.

I have these overwhelming feelings.  That I want to abandon everything.  I want to leave everything behind and be done with him.  I feel like I am breaking.  I feel such intense anger towards him and everything he is.  I don't know if what he said last night really opened a fresh wound or if I am just having a bad day.  I want to be honest with myself about what I am feeling.  Part of me hates him.  Part of me wishes that he would disappear out of existence and never return.

I look back to when I first started posting and now and I am still shocked at the change.  Some of the growth ishealthy, some of it has turned into this ugly raging beast inside.  I've been angry before, but not like this.  I don't like it at all.  Journaling on here at every peak in my life has helped me process my feelings.  I hope one day I look back at this post and no longer feel the way I am at this moment.
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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2020, 08:36:45 AM »


That was a powerfully telling statement that he said to you.

My hope is that you don't carry this with you for the rest of your life.  It's not up to you to determine if he carries it or not (that's him handing you the responsibility for his emotions).

Think about that for a minute.

My hope is that you eventually forgive him, forgive yourself and move on.  (my guess is this will be a long process and my guess is "it" will perk up from time to time for years, and that is "best case".)

As opposed to what you have observed.  His abusers are long gone and you know he carries if "fresh" with him each day.  Uggg..

Have empathy for him and also determine NOT to live your emotional life has he has.

Best,

FF

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