How do I Motivate Myself to Leave

[cleotokos]

Hello again. It's been a while since I last posted. My husband's mental state has deteriorated. I didn't know that this gets worse with age, for some reason I had the impression it would get better. He's become very paranoid, always thinking others are doing things on purpose to bother him. Including me, and he's called me a "psychopath" because he really believes I do things like not change a full garbage, or leave coffee grounds in the machine, in the hopes that he will discover it and be annoyed by it. And if I deny doing things just to bother him, he says I'm gaslighting him. I mean, who has time to think about all these petty things they can do to bother someone else? And who has so much hate in their heart that they would? But he really believes people are like this.

To recap my situation, we now have two young children (20 month old girl, 3 year old boy). My husband has been extremely verbally abusive since the kids came, especially the second one. Waking the baby up at night to punish me (because then I'd be stuck trying to put an upset baby back to sleep), things like that. He's constantly miserable, calls me evil. I feel like it's all just an elaborate excuse to justify the way he treats me, saying I do this and that to bother him. I came across a YouTube video by Dr. Fox called "The Empathy Paradox" and had to stop it halfway through because I was in tears. This is him! I've recently realized he probably has comorbid C-PTSD and BPD (is there really even a difference? I'm not so sure). He's been diagnosed with PTSD, and Obsessive-Compulsive tendencies. That was from one psych evaluation rather than ongoing treatment. He was seeing a psychiatrist for several months, and on medication, which improved everything. But he decided to go off his medication and now he's worse than he ever was before.

I saw a lawyer a few weeks ago after he said "that will be the last thing you ever do" after I threatened to call the police on him because he was in an angry state, and trying to take the kids out. I didn't think he was in an appropriate mood to be taking care of them alone. I thought, that threat has got to be enough to have him removed from the home. I found a good lawyer, who advised me to record his verbal abuse, which I've caught some on recording but not the worst of it. So, I can have him removed from the home it seems (I am the one on title, and pay the mortgage, and he does not contribute financially and never really has. That's why I can't leave.)

I'm hesitant for many reasons. He is going to flip when the police show up and take him away. How awful for our kids, but he doesn't think of them at all when he's angry. I expect yelling, swearing, perhaps destroying property. Then, where is he going to go? He has nobody. Then, I will owe him some kind of spousal support. And lawyer's fees. This is all going to cost me a fortune.

I'll have to find full time care for my kids (he cares for them while I work currently). I can't bear the thought of dropping them off at a daycare every day for 10 hours until I'm done work. I wanted to be the one to stay home with them but you know, employmentally challenged BPD husband.

He hasn't been speaking to me for months. This is his solution to his inability to interact with me without verbally abusing me, which he thinks is my fault for "being stupid". In the start of our relationship he used to give the silent treatment but I made it clear that I wouldn't put up with it and he stopped - until we had two kids and he thinks I'm stuck with him (he's right - he refuses to leave and everything seems so intertwined, and overwhelming). We had so many conversations about it being abusive, and he seemed to understand and agree that it was abusive and he stopped doing it. He used to be reasonable, when I could get through to him.

I decided to put a pause on everything so as not to "ruin Christmas" for the kids. Maybe it's just an excuse not to take action. I wish I didn't have to do this, and he would make some move towards getting better. How do I let go of that?

[worriedStepmom]

It's hard to let go of our hopes and dreams for the future.  When I divorced, I had to grieve the loss of my dream for my kids (then 18 months and 4) - the perfect house with the perfect (intact) family.  It was a lot easier to get over my ex on my own behalf, but for them...sigh.

I can tell you from personal experience that you will be more than capable of taking care of your kids as a single mom.  Your kids will be able to handle the changes in their lives.  It might be rough for a little while, but it gets better.

Are you in counseling?  It was invaluable to me during my divorce, and again now, while my H and I deal with his uBPDexw's deterioration and how it affects SD12.

I don't blame you for wanting to have one more holiday season without the stress of legal proceedings. Are you ready to start proceedings in January?

[cleotokos]

Hi worriedStepmom, I'm not exactly prepared to proceed in January. I'd love to say that I am but I feel like, as always, I will fail to take the necessary actions. I know that I need to do it now, because the age of the children makes my custody case much stronger than if I wait. But I'm also waiting with the hope of him finishing his professional training and getting some kind of income going again. And dreading draining away probably tens of thousands of dollars to lawyer fees. My lawyer said I have a good case for reducing spousal support since he is able to work, he just doesn't.

I think what's holding me back is the drama of having to force him out of the house using police. He absolutely will not go any other way. I don't want to do that to him, it feels very cruel. Yes, he's been cruel to me and he's not leaving me with much of a choice. Intellectually, I understand that but emotionally I haven't caught up. There is still a person I love in there somewhere, though I haven't seen him for a long time. And he really believes the things he believes, you know? It's not his fault. I wish I could hate him, it would be a lot easier for me.

[worriedStepmom]

It's not easy.

This summer my H and I finally decided that we would call the police if SD12's mom showed up at our house again.  It broke my heart to have to tell a child that I was prepared to have her mom arrested...and I can't imagine how much worse it would feel if she'd once been someone I loved.

What are you waiting for to take that step, or what do you need to see to take that step?

It's great that you've gotten legal advice, but would you consider find a therapist for yourself, or talking to someone experienced with domestic violence to help you answer that question?  Even if your H hasn't hit you, he is abusing you, and your baby.  It might be helpful to get support from people who are familiar with situations like yours and the agony of having to make this kind of decision.

[mart555]

The kids will survive.   My kids (10/14) saw their mom leave in handcuffs on Christmas eve, after my oldest one had to call 911 while I was preventing his mom from taking the phone out of his hands after she threatened to kill herself. 
The kids are doing great now.  Situation at home is calm. 

It's been a really difficult year for the kids but they now sleep better than they ever did in our years together.  And have less pain / stress. The therapist said that I pretty much saved them.  Neither the kids nor myself truly realized how messed up the situation was at home.  It took us a while to get out of the fog.

There is never really a good time.  At some point you'll have to pull the pin, or rip the bandaid off.  It will be up to you to decide when that is, but no matter what, you won't be able to predict it all and you will leave in fear of the unknown.  But things will get better.  Then they'll get much better. 

[Turkish]

How is he with the kids while watching them when you are at work?

[CoherentMoose]

Hello.  Sorry you are in such a terrible situation.  Some words in your post concern me.  Especially "the last thing you do".  Will you be physically safe?  Suggest you read "The Gift of Fear" by Gaven de Becker.  Trust your gut!  Please err on the side of being safe.  Consider planning a "surprise day" move out into temporary quarters with the kids while he is evicted from the home and you execute a TRO.  Again, if there is any chance you or the kids will not be physically safe, tread carefully and purposefully, and have a well thought-out safety plan with backups, including knowing where the nearest DV shelters are located, occupied police stations, and hospital emergency rooms (they are well lit and typically have some sort of armed security).  In addition, DV shelters could be of assistance in this situation too, at least to get you separated and him out of the house.  Good luck and God Bless. jdc

[ForeverDad]

If you have the time to prepare some strategic changes — sadly, holidays are prime times for things going ballistic — then you can start a divorce with some things in your favor.

For example, if you separated right now and said you wanted to restrict his access to the kids, he could respond, "I've been taking care of them all day long five days a week."  But if you decided to place them (before separation) in child care while you worked, then his later claim for parenting time would be greatly reduced.  Does that make sense?  You could nicely phrase it as giving him time off from the kids so he could focus on his training for work.

How long have you been married?  With two young children, I thought it was only a few years, but one post indicated it was longer?  In any case, if he's not doing major parenting time, then likely you will have less difficulty getting official majority time and thus be able to spend the child support yourself for the kids.  Whether you could get child support from him, well, depends on whether the court can get him to keep a job.  At the least you can try for the court to assess him "imputed" income, what he could be earning.

As for possible spousal support, it is never longer than half the marriage and generally much less.  In my divorce for 18 married years I paid alimony for 3 years, just 2 months for every year.

As for wishing things will get better, they won't.  Any better times will not last very long, not if he's off his moderating meds and not getting therapy.  I often offer two supportive but pragmatic comments:  It is what it is.  Do what you have to do.

[StillHopeful73]

I'm sorry to hear you're having to deal with this, especially when you have 2 young children to worry about. My situation was a bit different as my uBPD ex did end up assaulting me so the police did get involved once they were aware. But since I was trying to get us into counseling initially to see if our relationship could be salvaged, it wasn't reported until a few days after it occurred. I had a close friend (who is a lawyer) and her husband (who is a police officer) helping me deal with it all. So when the police were notified and I knew they would be taking him to the police station at some point, I was beyond worried about what "might" happen and what he might do. I ended up making sure my children and I were elsewhere when the police came. We stayed at my parents until everything cooled down. He ended up being very charismatic with the police officer and extremely cooperative from what I heard. But bruises, bumps and a fat lip were proof of what occurred.

I understand your hesitancy as it's stressful and it's heartbreaking for the children to have to go through this. But it is the best thing for you and the best thing for your children. I can't begin to explain how stressed and scared I was when the police did end up picking him up. And it was hell dealing with the police, lawyers, children's aid, etc. But I wouldn't change it for anything because he was held accountable (he ended up getting a criminal record - he had done this before with other women) and because I (and my children) didn't have to put up with his abuse anymore.

My kids were pretty young at the time, 5 1/2 years old and 1 year old so I'm hoping that relationship didn't have any long term effects on them. I'm thankful that it happened when they were this young as opposed to being older. The damage that is being done to any child by watching/hearing any kind of abuse only increases the longer you stay. But that being said you want to make sure that first of all you protect yourself and your kids (ie. have people around or don't be around at all when the police take him away). And it is also helpful to surround yourself with as much support as possible during this time...family, friends and a therapist if you can afford one. The therapist was hugely helpful for me when I was going through all of that.

Hugs to you. It isn't easy. I've been there. But it sounds like you are taking the proper steps to begin the process. My advice to you though is if you can do it safely, do it sooner rather than later. Otherwise you'll always find an excuse to not proceed (ie. he seems to be better or I don't want him to be on the street etc.). But sadly it won't get better. My heart broke and I felt an extreme amount of guilt getting the police involved even though I knew it was the right thing to do logically. But my ex is where he is because of his own actions, not mine.

[cleotokos]

Thank you for everyone's replies. Had stomach flu the last few days.

I have had advice from lawyer not to leave the family home because he would be able to prevent me from returning. This means no going to a shelter while the police pick him up, or staying with family. I will be able to get a protection order, which prevents him from contacting me for 1 year. The police come get him, I change the locks, and my lawyer prevents him from returning. This is how it should go down. Lawyer suggested I have a friend or family member over when the police come.

worriedStepmom asked what I need to take that step...I don't know. To hate him? For him to physically assault me or the kids? I don't know. Last night he demanded we go out to dinner. I said I want to wait until Friday when I get paid. He then took my wallet by force, said he was taking my debit card but found $15 and took that out. We ended up all going out to dinner because he'd been drinking (he spent the grocery money I gave him on snack foods and beer for himself) and I didn't want him taking the kids alone. I had decided I'm not giving him money in between my paydays anymore, he can tell me how much he needs for the two weeks and I give him that amount. He constantly has surprise expenses that he doesn't tell me about, making it hard for me to budget. But that is a side point. I am enraged by his behaviour last night, in front of my children. He was acting all nice last night, actually invited me to dinner (that I had to pay for) when days ago said he's not going anywhere I am going, and for months refusing to be in the same room as me or make eye contact. Because he was asking for large amounts of money, suddenly he is saying "please" and "thank you" when speaking to me instead of swearing and calling me stupid and whatnot. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, he's always been like that but it is so, so much worse than ever.

We have been together 11 years, married for 3. Turkish, I believe he is mostly alright with the kids while I'm gone. He is, most of the time, a loving, playful and involved father. When he drinks he can be a real asshole, but he only drinks in the evenings. He's very active with the kids, reads to them, teaches them things, is kind and patient. Except when he's not, which is infrequent, but there are things he does that upset me. Last night my three year old came to me visibly upset, I asked him what was wrong and he said Daddy drank all the beer and burped really loud. I don't know if something else happened, or if my son is coming to associate Daddy drinking beer with Daddy being obnoxious in general.

jdc I do believe I am physically safe. Yes that was definitely a threat to kill me. I took it as an attempt to intimidate rather than an actual threat. He called me a "f*cking liar" over text when I asked him why the hell he would say it the next day, then later admitted he said it but that I misunderstood what he meant. I don't think there's any other interpretation that could be had, really.

I am trying to encourage him to agree to get back to working. He asked me for a bunch of money for his career training and I said I just can't afford it, he will have to go back to work and we will get childcare. If I can get that in place, and him up and working, we'll all be set up so much better for him leaving. Legally I've just come off mat leave, so he is not in a position quite yet to claim primary caregiver status (plus the fact that a previous therapist of mine called child protection on him, I have recorded verbal/emotional abuse, and the young age of the children all work in my favour). I am in therapy, worriedStepmom, thank you.

ForeverDad you're right, spousal support wouldn't be forever, would it? If I even do have to pay it...sounds like I have a good case for "underemployed spouse" claims. He says he will try to make me sell the house, but I think that will take him about 3 years if he wants to take me through the court system for that.

[worriedStepmom]

I hope that you never get to the point where you hate him.

If you hate him, that means that you've let him cross your boundaries so very many times, and treat you so very badly ... but that you are still emotionally enmeshed with him.

The opposite of love is indifference.  It takes time to get there, and, usually, some form of disengagement.

[cleotokos]

worriedStepmom I don't want to hate him. I feel like he keeps escalating the things he does, to see where I will draw the line. He painted me black months ago and to be honest I don't really care why. I'm not indifferent, but desensitized. I have no emotional reaction to him anymore (actually I think that's why he's painted me black). I think he's just come out of a dysregulation (which now last for months instead of days). It coincides with him wanting something from me (money). He is constantly escalating to see where I will draw the line, but I'm not sure if he understands the consequences to all of us and especially to him if I do.

[ForeverDad]

We have been together 11 years, married for 3. Turkish, I believe he is mostly alright with the kids while I'm gone. He is, most of the time, a loving, playful and involved father.

Read what you wrote.  It's like saying Dr Jekyll was a nice guy even though some of the time he was Mr Hyde.  Even a spouse who is 80% or 90% 'loving' doesn't excuse the 10% or 20% - or more!  - of abuse and other poor behaviors.  Maybe it's middling okay if he was 'just' a freeloading jerk, but his poor behaviors are very concerning.  So be cautious about explaining away things as "He's loving but..."  You'll convince yourself to passively allow the bad stuff to be forgotten or ignored.  If he was truly loving then he would be consistently so with only minor lapses (nobody's completely perfect).

You might want to read our post & PDF download on clinical psychologist Joe Carver and also what he wrote elsewhere on his website.  In particular read his article "Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships".

ForeverDad you're right, spousal support wouldn't be forever, would it? If I even do have to pay it...sounds like I have a good case for "underemployed spouse" claims. He says he will try to make me sell the house, but I think that will take him about 3 years if he wants to take me through the court system for that.

For 3 years of marriage?  Yes, only brief risk of alimony, if any.  But ask your lawyer about spousal support during a divorce.  If you have a protection order then maybe that would reduce that possibility?

Also, alimony is typically at the end of  divorce.  I was married 15 years when I separated.  But due to the length of the divorce, over two years, my alimony was based on 18 years.

I would repeat, do what you can to reduce the risk that he could claim to be the majority (or substantial) time parent.  If he's able to portray himself as a stay-at-home parent, who knows what a court would rule...

[cleotokos]

ForeverDad, where we are, the entire 11 years will count. Recently legislation has changed so that "Common Law" relationships are treated in the exact same way as marriages are.

You're correct being nice most of the time doesn't excuse the not-nice stuff. In fact it probably makes the not-nice stuff even more traumatic for the kids due to its unexpectedness. There is no way I will be able to get 100% custody, or have him require supervised custody. So divorcing isn't going to solve that issue, my fear up until now has been that all it will do is give him more time with the kids where I am not present to feel out his moodiness and mitigate any damages.

[worriedStepmom]

I understand that you want to protect your kids.   You can't protect them fully, not matter what you choose.

While you stay married and living in the same house, they perceive you and their dad as how all marriages work.  They see their dad treat you poorly.  They are treated poorly sometimes.  They are or will grow up to be always on edge, wondering if they'll get the "good dad" or the "bad dad" at every single moment.

If you separate, sometimes they'll be with their dad.  During those times, they'll be treated poorly sometimes.  They'll be on edge, wondering which dad they are going to experience.  But the rest of the time, they will be with you.  They can let down their guard, because they know they are safe with you.  They can see what a non-disordered life is like and better understand where the problem is - Dad, and his inability to regulate himself.

If Dad's behavior on his own gets bad enough, then you fight for more custody.  Two years ago, my H's ex had primary custody of their daughter, with a roughly 50/50 time split.  Last year, H got custody, with a 70/30 split.  This week, we're finalizing an agreement where ex will have no overnights and the split is about 85/15.  The next step, if ex can't get herself together, is supervised visitation. 

I regret very much that we didn't take action to protect SD12 sooner.  We didn't know about BPD, and we didn't realize that everything we were experiencing from ex, SD was also experiencing.   

[cleotokos]

Thanks worriedStepmom. Every day feels like a fight, both with him and with myself. Leaving is a matter of time, and I don't know exactly when it will happen. I want it to be as easy on the kids as possible. But there is no way I'm raising them with him disrespecting me like this in front of them. As I mentioned I was on mat leave, I have been home with them 2 1/2 out of the past 3 years (brief return to work before a second mat leave). So him being home alone with them is new, and it's coincided with a worsening of his treatment of me. Coming to terms with having to give up some custody has been hard, as has been coming to terms with possibly being forced to sell the house, pay him spousal support etc. has been hard and taken time.  I think I've accepted all that. I've been worried also about how I will know his behaviour has worsened, as the kids have been too young to be able to tell me. My son is coming to an age where he soon will be able to communicate to that degree. I think it is probably time. I'm going to give it until the new year to see if he will try to make moves to find work. If not then I guess we go about it "the hard way".

[ForeverDad]

WorriedStepmom described it well.  You've likely been thinking, I can't have a parenting plan where he has alone time with them.  I have to be there to ensure they're safe and protected from his rants, rages, whatever.  Well, the fact is that you have to sleep, and recently you returned to work.  Guess what, he had alone time for extended period, right?

So no matter how you structure it, living apart or not, he will have alone time with the kids.  And as WS highlighted, by having a separate home you ensure they get at least some significant time in your more stable and relaxing home.

Good that in the past you've had significant time with the kids.  The reason I suggested you investigate daycare is that it will weaken a potential claim to be a super-involved dad, watching the kids like a full time job.  (He might also use "I watch the kids all day" as an excuse to delay actually getting a job.)  Besides, if/when you separate, you may need a daycare on your parenting time anyway while you work.

Although it's not always the case, many disordered dads end up eventually abdicating some of their parenting time that they had fought so hard for in mediation or the court.

[cleotokos]

ForeverDad, yes that is what held me back while I wasn't working. The idea that he would then be alone with the kids, whereas if we stayed together at least I was there all the time to mitigate things. And as you said, since I've returned to work, he now has alone time with them - probably more than he would have if we separated, since he'll have to work. I was only supposed to return to work temporarily, but it's not looking like that's going to work out as planned. So yes, finding daycare, trying to proceed with separating.

He's now being "Mr. Nice Guy" again and I'm happy that I'm not getting sucked in again. Told him again today that him leaving is best for everyone, pushing him to get a job and apartment. He's very angry about it. Oh well.